All depends on the character. Much as I hate to say it (Being a fan of Datajacks), it's Old Skool, by 2070.

With NanoTrodes, you can slick up your hair in multiple colours, and use it as warpaint, just like the old days in 2050!

One thing I do wish is that they had put subdermal datajacks back in with Augmentation. I always liked those.

Sure, a sim-module+trodenet could also run 'softs, but then you are hauling around two pieces of equipment when you could have the security of a datajack instead.

As for implanted comlinks with sim-modules, sure if someone wants to spend the extra nuyen and Essence for the two implants then he should by all means get the beanies.

Unless I'm misreading, couldn't a skinlinked datajack do everthing that a subdermal datajack could in Third?

I think that the cybercommlink should include a SIM module for no Essence cost. Honestly, it's a module... it should be able to be included.

*shrugs* Although personally I'm of a mind that it is impossible to buy a off-the-self commlink without a sim-module and have increased the prices accordingly the extra Essence cost makes sense to me, after all, I imagine that the implanted 'links your average streetdoc is going to shove into some poor slob's skull is going to be fairly bare-bones.

What does a datajack do that is more secure than a trodenet + sim module?

It can't be lost, taken-away, targeted seperately by magic, and is always on with a mere thought.

Also personally I don't allow people to store data on their underware, ect, so the headware memory that is included with a datajack is worth its weight in powdered dragon's penis as well...

Well a subdermal just didn't stand out. You didn't have a piece of ware sticking out your skull. Used a little pad thing you stuck on the end of a normal cable, and then put the pad against your skin. Little more discreet is all. You can very easily houserule them back in. Just would have been nifty to have had them in the book is all.

Sounds like a trode, to me.

You could use the cosmetic rules from Augmentation to just have your 'Jack hidden under your skin, or possibly fake skin, like on a Cyberlimb, and hooked up to a skinlink. Ooh... If you used the fake skin, you could have it flip open when you want to jack in. That might be even more nifty.

Hey now, the humour value alone of "Tiny's" Databoxers having to contain Mr. Johnson's data is hilarious!

"AW MAN! I did NOT need to see that side of a Troll!"

As for Powdered Dragon's Penis... Who want's to do a Dragon Line?

Sure it can, it just takes some better pliers and a little more force. Trodes can't really be targetted seperately by magic, any more than your armor can be but not you by a powerbolt. Trodes can always be on with a mere thought also, they're trodes, they read your thoughts.


And, trodes would have memory in them too, so, since you don't allow clothes/almost everything to have memory, trodes would serve that purpose too.

A set of trodes can be targeted by a Wreck Electronics spell, but that wouldn't do anything to your datajack. You can't target cyberware with a spell like that, because it's a part of a person.

Because everyone knows just how common a wreck electronics spell is...

Craig the Pixie Mage is drooling after it. Or something like it.

You also can't lose an implanted commlink; it can't be targeted by magic, etc, etc. And it's only a third of a BP more expensive.

All your cyber has unlimited memory, as does all your electronic devices. Even if you disallow data storage on underwear, there's probably lots of things you have that can be used as headware memory. You can just store stuff in your skinlink module.

Tarantula, perhaps I wasn't as clear as I could have been so I'll clarify, datajacks are part of your body and thus are always on with a mere thought, trodes on the other hand need to placed on your head and turned on before they are able to be used. And sure they can be targeted by magic, just like any other object can be.

Cain true, but for a non-Decker character I see a datajack as being "enough". I'm feeling too lazy to crunch the numbers to see if you've included an implanted sim-module or not, but I can't really imagine a good reason to implant a comlink without a sim-module.

The problem is, once again, what incentive is there for a non-decker to get a datajack? You can get the same functionality with a trode net.

Wreck is one of my favorite spells, really. I also loved the SR3, but easily enough recreated for SR4, Use (skill) spell.

I think that a cyber commlink should have a sim-module included for free. I think it was a poor decision by CGL NOT to have it included. I mean honestly, it costs 500 to implant a datajack and 2000 (+ price of the 'Link) to install a commlink. The sim-module is 2000 so I just consider that it's a package deal for installing a 'Link + sim-module.

There are plenty of people who probably never use VR, for whom a sim module is unnecessary. Many of these people may still get implanted commlinks, though, just like people got telephones installed in their heads in ages past.

Cain, the way I see things, the incentive for a non-Decker to install a datajack is the same for a Decker to install a commlink/sim-module, in order to capture all of the functionablity of a 'jack a character has to manage multiple pieces of equipment, not to mention the fact that it is almost impossible to prevent a character from cleaning the included headware memory since it is directly wired into his brain.

KCKitsune, I disagree, mostly because the Essence costs wouldn't add up, but from an in-character perspective you simply can not buy an off-the-self commlink and then shove it into someone's head, so I see the extra nuyen costs as being the price of the special components needed to not only get everything small enough, but to also keep the processors from cooking your brain like an egg.

Besides, if a sim-module is included with a commlink then why would anyone implant a sim-module sans 'link?

Because a sim-module doesn't need hardware upgrades as often as the 'Link.

So, what's the price and essence cost for a commlink without sim module, then?

But that's true for any piece of headware. All devices come with unlimited storage memory, as does all pieces of cyber. I can't see any function that the datajack does that cannot be accomplished with a trode net, for less cost in both essence and nuyen.

A sim module costs 100

Which doesn't answer the question.

KCKitsune to each their own, although I think Rotbart van Dainig brings up a very good point, what is the Essence cost if someone who already has an implanted sim-module later wishes to go under the knife to get a 'link wired into his brain?

As for package deals, Aug has already given us an answer, its worth a 10% reduction in Essence. A true Decker package of a datajack, sim-module (Hot Sim), and 'link will run 0.45 Essence.

How big is a sim module? Can you have one plugged into a datajack and not even notice it? What I mean by that is the size of the module so small that it doesn't stick out of the 'jack at all.

The size of a sim module, like the size of a commlink, is purposely left undefined. It's however large your plot needs it to be.

That being said, what;s to stop someone from implanting a commlink with a sim module already integrated? That would cost only 0.2 essence, a better deal than buying an additional datajack.

You could just leave the trodes on, with their wireless turned off. Then you think at them to turn them on. Whats the difference?

Yes, a trodenet could be targetted by magic, such as a powerbolt. Though, your datajack could still get hit by say, an acid stream spell too, so again, whats so much better about it? Honestly, if you're that worried about your trode net being zapped, use the nanopaste trodes in "clear". I really doubt the mage is gonna get close enough to your head to spot the nanopaste in order to spell it down.

So, I ask, why do you think the essence cost is worth it for those meger capabilities?


Also, I looked, and SR4 doesn't mention NOT being able to target, say someones cyberarm or datajack or underwear with your powerbolt spell either. SR3 made specific mention of that, while 4 doesn't. So, your datajack just might be able to be zapped by magic.

What is to stop me from implanting a datajack with a commlink and sim module already integrated? How about what is to stop me from implanting a datajack with a rating 3 move-by-wire system already integrated? Just a little something called the rules. Now you can ignore them if you want, but they are there.

Jago, I think that Cain was talking about putting a sim-module with commlink. IMO it should already be integrated. Now having a Move-by-Wire system with a datajack integrated... hell yeah, it SHOULD be integrated! The MBW system allows you to use Activesofts and what's a good way to get the 'softs into your MBW... a datajack. Honestly with something as invasive as a MBW system, the datajack is such a small fry that it should be integral.

How do you just think them on, skinlinked controls?

KC he said put a sim module and commlink in at the same time for the essence cost of just one of them. Now if you want to houserule it that way, cool deal for your group. However RAW it doesn't work that way. You can get a reduction for getting them in a suite, but not one for completely free. He asked what was to stop someone from doing that. My reply was the rules. Otherwise you could just say you installed all kinds of stuff pre-integrated, and get it for free (essence cost).

Simply? Not falling off and always being with you. Anymore that's the only difference. That alone would still make the datajack a better deal for me, but that's personal preferance.

Btw - on the internal commlink vs datajack note, when it comes to being traced does Track trace you to the originating commlink or the originating device? If its the commlink, a datajack is awesome because you can always ditch your 'link (not so with an internal commlink). If it's the device, then the internal commlink is a better bet.

It's the device running the Persona - but you can always use a Proxy.

Cool - thanks Rotbart!

You tell them to turn wireless off. Now they aren't communicating with anything, but are still "on" and able to read your thoughts and take it as input. Now, when you think "wireless for trodes on" boom, they turn it back on, not much difference at all.

The problem here is, a datajack without a commlink isn't good for much, if anything. What good is it to always have a datajack with you, if your commlink falls off or is taken away? You may as well go with an implanted commlink; you get everything for only a slight increase in BP costs.

[Insert Noun Here] of DOOM!!!

Tarantula are you going to keep the trodes on 24/7?

Cain I don't know, the idea of having a relatively cheap universal remote/short range mental communication sounds good to me, even if you throw away the ability to download the sum of human knowledge directly into your brain.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not disagreeing that a complete suite of an implanted comlink/sim-module/datajack is the ultimate way to go for a Decker, but for a non-Decker character it seems like overkill.

There have been times we've tossed the comlink into the river or smashed it. I think having a comlink implanted in your brain is a very bad idea for a runner. Connect it to a datajack for DNI, then be able to toss it if everything goes to hell or manually press the <OFF> switch. Try doing the latter to an implanted link.

I guess what it comes down to is this:

What advantages are there to a datajack + commlink over trodes + commlink?

Are these advantages significant enough to override an essence cost? And are they significant enough for non-deckers to consider picking up?

For the decker, the implant is definitely the way to go; but it's excessive for a non-decker. I think we agree on that much.

And that is my new sig.

I believe the advantages are worth the Essence cost even for a non-Decker yes.

Okay, first of all, you're leaving out the Awakened and Otaku. Both take hits to their abilites by adding cyber. For many of them, any hit to their Essence may not be worth it. Granted, some do pick up cyber; but even then, they tend to have very select packages. They need to get the most mileage they can out of their cyber, and a datajack doesn't offer enough bonuses to be a serious contender on the short list.

For mundanes, I'd have to say it depends. If they're loading their body down with implants, they might want to use that essence for something else. If they're not loading up, then I can see a datajack being considered; but it doesn't have that many uses. So, it'd have to be an odd set of circumstances that would encourage someone to get a datajack, instead of an implanted commlink. Personally, I can't even see what those circumstances would be.

Except you can always spoof the decoy 'link with the one in your head. That way you can throw away the decoy and keep the real 'Link in your head.

Or you just spoof the one in your head.

No, Otaku don't. Technomancers do.

That strategy fails when the implanted com has been compromised.