At a friend of mines insistence I will go ahead and share some of my character creation tips and tricks. Today we will focus on getting a retardedly high armor bonus to make yourself practically immune to every form of attack. Sadly I seem to have lost my notes on my exact processes so until I find them again we will go off of memory.

As a side note : Gel Pack armor mods state they take up [1] capacity in armor, since the capacity can range from [4]-[12] and unfortunately never explicitly states they do not stack with themselves it is relatively easy to grab a armor of 40+ just using Gelpacks (Don't get hit unless you like being knocked down every 5 seconds). However for the sake of this thread we will only put one gel pack per armor piece.

As a side note : All spell hits are taken at a average of what a starting character can normal cast (6), obviously the end results can be higher and will be added in as a side towards the end.

As a side note : All cyberware is standerd grade, Alpha+ can net you more armor

Firstly lets take a look at the character needed to play with this thought in mind effectivly.
There are two ways we can go..
1) Magical
2) Non-Magical

Neither of these two ways are mandatory, being non magical will net you a extra 12/12 armor but you then need a Contact/Ally who can cast spells on you. Vice Versa if you are magical you lose out on 12/12 armor but then have less reliance on other people.

After picking 1 or 2, you then need a character who can have 60k+ Nyuen. (This requirement isn't even mandatory and depending on the game wont be needed at all)

Done, that's all that's needed to have a character with a armor value of 100+, easy isn't it?

Secondly lets take a look at where we get some of our armor from, we will then actually put this information into practical use. A lot of these choices seem easy however a few will surprise you, please bear in mind before crying foul lets see what I can correctly remember. (Keep in mind at this point I neither have my books nor my notes, I will change and update as I get a hold of each)

1) One of the main sources of armor comes from a vehicle, a car to be exact, that one car from Arsenal with 14 mod slots and a body of 10. Taking this vehicle we will add 20 armor and 10 personal armor also Walker Mode and 2 Articulated Arms. There is a rule in the Shadowrun main Book that's states (paraphrased) "When directing a attack towards a target in a vehicle add the vehicles armor rating to the characters total then determine damage as normal" This nets us a total of +30 armor for our character. Sadly being in a car is limits where you can and cannot go, this is why we add the Arms and Walker Mod to the car with this add on you (inside of it) can now travel most anywhere even sewers. Most corporate building/tunnels are large enough to fit a 10-13 foot tall car than can walk, remember you can always kneel
EDIT: you don't need this car ( I think the mental image is awesome though) with a mbit of modding you can get the same stats with a Horseman enclosed bike. You just need to turn it into a drone before you can give it armor 20/20 with that control rig thing. This option is preferred if your GM goes into seizures when you try and explain why the car can enter a building. (Which it can BTW its small enough)

2) Main armor, this can be any armor that has a rating of 6/4 or larger, IIRC coveralls fit this nice but for this thread we will use Riot Control armor since anyone can get it netting us a total of 6/9.

3) Form Fitting full body, has a rating of 6/2 I believe

4) Ballistic Shield x2 (one in each hand, more on this later) this nets a total of 12/8

5) PPP armor which is a total of 2/6 for every piece for a total of 5 items

6) 12/12 for cyber limb/legs/torso/head, this is optional and is not advised for a Magical character, although as mentioned you can still get this option and have people cast spells on you, kinda like having your cake and eating it too. However semi-reliant on others. (More on this later) EDIT: Tack on Titanium Bone lacing IIRC that's another 1/1 for a total of 13/13
EDIT: You can also buy extra armor for your cyberlimbs netting you another 24/24 for a total of 37/37.

7) The armor spell can get you a rating of 1-12, for the purposes of this thread we will take the average of 6, netting us 6/6.

8] The Physical Barrier spell can provide a mobile source of armor with every cast, since it can be shaped to fit any area and the basic rules add the structure rating of a barrier to a characters armor we get a number between 1-12, again granting us 6 for a total of 6/6.

9) A Riggers Cocoon will get us 10/10 (Bet your wondering why I included this, keep reading)

10) Helmet, this will get us 2/2 for the good one, I cant seem to find anything that says the PPP helmet cant be used with a regular one, since the description of PP is it can be "Strapped on" or "Added" to other armor, in reality you get a big...thing on your head that semi resembles a helmet but in practice it stacks .

11) Out of all the armor clothing lines only the Shawl/Scarf/Stole can be reasonably added with other armor netting another 1/0. Also before you get upset saying they only stack with other pieces of the line it was produced in, I suggest you go reread that section, they can in fact be worn with any armor. It also makes perfect sense to have a armored scarf over your Security Armor, not only do you LOOK nice you are reasonably protected with added ballistic cloth.

12) One Gel-Pack for each and every peice of armor comes out too... 11/11
EDIT: It has been pointed out that only the Form fitting armor and the Sec Armor can use the Gelpacks, so in order to grab these numbers above (or more) you will have to use all the capacity in both. Since the total is roughly the same I will not alter the final numbers.

13) Assuming you are a Magical character (you are aren't you?) then the Hardening spell can increase the Car's armor by another 1-12 for a once again average of 6 for a total of 6/6.

14) Reserved for when I find my notes.

Thirdly lets look at how all of this mess can be effectively used without being so weighed down you can no longer move.

Side Note : If you chose to take Non-Magical then its easy to use a control rig wireless or whatever it is what hackers do to "Jump in" a vehicle and piolt it, if you chose Magical there is a non essence draining alternative I forget what it is but its in the main book, VR gloves and Helm I believe, more on this when remember.

We take out cool Mecha-Car paint it up nice, maybe add some weapons it doesnt matter. What matters is that you put the Rigger cocoon in it and get in (be sure to take all your armor with you) You can then "jump" into the mach to retain full mobility (actual body/agi score won't matter when your not moving), if you chose Non-Magic then you will need to rely on the Mach to do anything (Shoot stuff or Punch stuff) if you chose Magical you can just cast from inside the Mech using the Optical cables/cameras/whatever it was.

Protecting you're investment : I can't stress how important it is that you Harden EVERYTHING to protect it from EMP attacks, and dont forget to Polarize your mech windows. If you have polarized windows you can target people with spells but they can no longer draw LOS to you making you immune to spell casting directed at you. I believe it talks about it in Arsenal but this info might also be in Street Magic. Active Counter spelling can also be placed on objects giving your car added survivability when weathering a magical onslaught.

This will net you a total of..

99/96 w/out Cyberware or Overchanneled spells (12 hits)

130/127 with Cyberware

148/145 with Overchanneled spells and Cyberware

???/??? with my lost notes, last I remember I was somewhere around 140/150ish.

Assuming you can put multiple gel-packs into a piece of armor until you fill up the capacity ( I haven't found anything that says NO, just common sense is holding me back) Then we can add another 30 points easy to any of the above examples.

Now my character that goes off of everything you just read is fully fleshed and stated out, and spends most of the time in my Knightmare Frame (The mech) named Lancelot (anyone get the reference), however no matter what character you use you should ALWAYS go in the car when possible, assuming you can't for whatever reason its easy enough to walk around with a combination of the above equipment for nearly any number you might want. Lancelot's pilot walks around with a 44 Ballistic armor and 40 Impact armor when a bit more discretion is needed MORE than enough ever needed ever. If you don't want the Car (it costs around 46k Nyuen) then as mentioned you can do without if needed. Its also important to say if you chose Magical you can then simply cast Invisibility or whatever other spell you want help getting around (you can also HEAL your mech with the Fix spell /squee)

As a side note : The Arsenal book gives reiterates one of the older rules from 2nd and 3rd in the guise of Custom Fitted Armor. If you want to wander around I highly recommend you use this as you can get more mileage for your money, and consequently higher amor without being boned by a low body and agi score.

Ladies and Gentlemen: A new use for the Called Shot and Longshot test rules.

I see what you did there, very clever

That requires a lot of setup, and with some decent skills and a proper sensor load out it will be extremely difficult , if not impossible, to get a surprise shot on me. Assuming this hyptohetical character has a body of 5, and a 4+ edge pool I can roll 9 (rerollable) dice to resist damage. Odds stacked very much in my favor and assuming you have somewhere between 1-6 edge, and a average character walking around with 4 is a close call indeed for you.

You would then be subject to return fire (which can vary depending on weapon load out) or if this character has a Optical Camera or Telescope he can then nail you with a spell from however far away. Most likely going for your gun...hmmm very risky and very ballsy....I LIKE it!

EDIT: If it was not a surprise shot then it would be impossible indeed, as being "jumped in" gives me my reaction and dodge skill (spec'ed ranged of course) to avoid the shot. Even a surprise shot is assuming I am just walking around waiting to be hit, not likely with transport vehicles/sewer tunnels/Imp Invis spells.

EDIT:2 I was thinking about it, if you chose to go the Cyberware route then you would have around 15 dice to resist damage and a 19 box health bar, making you extremely resilient to even your proposed method, not bad at all. Sadly not for everyone. As a example we will take a sniper with a model 121 gun with a edge of 6, if you roll avaerage you will come out with a modified DV of 12. If I roll average myself I will get 7 hits dropping the damage to 5 boxes when I can of course take. Then I can either return fire as previously indicated or run away really really fast.

And in this case, quite fitting.

All the armor in the world won't save you when Lofwyr decides you look tasty. Just means you'll digest a little slower...

I'm a little confused by everything you wrote. Ignoring my inherent "must slap this fool" instinct, there does seem to be one thing you're overlooking. It's something I always overlooked, too, mostly due to the way the text is written. Shields, helmets, etc. all add to your armor's total value. So if you have an Armor Jacket (8/6) a helmet (+2/+2), and a shield (+6/+4) your armor's rating is 16/12, and it applies to your max limit. So you need a Body of 8 to wear that without penalty. It just doesn't count as being stacked armor.

As the old saying goes "Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy..." I think in this case extra crunchy applies.

Back to topic at hand, I believe with Mobility upgrade 3 on Heavy Milspec armor is a great way to start a crazy armor rating on a low body rating individual. Though it's a topic for debate (unless I missed an errata) you could put on the Suretech PPP system as obvious armor if you've got the body to support the extra +armor. I can't remember if it said no other armor could be worn underneath it or it doesn't stack with anything but the helmet. Perhaps you can convince your GM that there's no good reason why you can't stack on extra external plating if you've got the Body to handle the encumbrance.

Of course then you have the whole issue of getting said Milspec armor, but that's your problem to figure out

I don't think he's too worried about penalties in this case.

*Drags out the carcass of the "Dragons versus military" debate*
See! See! That's how Ghostwalker did it! Gel packs in dragon armor!

How does one wear ALL PPP parts and a normal helmet, I wonder... Two helmets rarely fit, methinks We had such a "tank" build in one of our games just recently. Over 30dp for soak but he did trust his body armor too much. He stood against two assault rifles FA's and fell unconscious almost instantly. Then on another occasion he stood with a ballistic shield against a HMG FA with almost same result (he was protecting the sniper behind him). The guy's demise came from the fact that he forgot he wasn't wearing his milspec but instead a swimming suit when attacking a group of guards by forgetting I mean he used the same strategy with about 20dp less on soak... go figure.

Lesson for all this: it's better to not get hit at all than being able to withstand damage Combine those two traits and you're home free

Will this guy ever have sex?

What, and be vulnerable to enemy fire?

Oh, and because I missed it earlier:

By RAW, you bypass *all* armor on a target by making a called shot. You don't need any setup at all, you just need to be willing to call a shot for -152, then call for a Longshot, giving you a positive dice pool. It doesn't need to be a surprise shot to be effective.

Now, assuming an Edge of 6 to 8, we can expect 2 to 3 successes. Since your rigger is tied down in his cocoon (see p 140, Arsenal) he doesn't get a defense roll; besides which, he's at -6 to even notice he's been hit; and getting hurt by a small arms weapon would be pretty surprising, no?. If we use a slivergun-- a *flechette* pistol-- we do a base damage of 8P, modified upward to an 11P for his successes. The AP penalty from the slivergun doesn't apply, since we've just bypassed all the armor. With your Body of 5, and Edge of 4, we can expect you to roll 3 successes, taking your damage down to 8P. Congratulations, you live! Meanwhile, the other guy makes his second shot....

If you really want to be evil, have a Force 12 guardian spirit do the same trick. That would produce an Edge of 12 for the longshot. You'd be at 9P; not dead but wishing you were.

Now, before the usual crowd comes in with the pitchforks and torches, shouting "Munchkin!", I'll point out to you that any GM who allows that armor setup is likely to permit the bypass armor shot as well.

I'm sure there are other problems with this setup, but this is the biggest one I'd like to point out.

Your very wrong about it being able to get into... any of those places really. Read the book, it specifically talks about it being too big to fit into your average building, going on to talk about how a few stores have made themselves 'whatever friendly' so that people could shop in them without having to leave the protection of their vehicle. I'd be really surprised if walkers could 'kneel' and still be able to move around any. (Though I suddenly have this picture of turning it back into a regular car once you force it past the front doors and zooming up and down the office halls)

And there is -no way- your getting it into a sewer. First it won't fit down a manhole, second sewers are generally really small (Not the massive two story tall 30' wide areas they generally like to be portrayed as). Yeah, lots of people play with the sewers big, so maybe it could move around, but simply getting it in there is going to be your biggest problem.

Not only that, but it's clear this is just an example of theorycraft.

Also, you don't shoot the guy inside the vehicle, you shoot the vehicle first. Then either peel it like an onion, or immobilize the guy inside the wreck and bring in shaped charges.

Yep, must be fun after the cocoon is disabled to wait for the people with their can openers to invite one out from there and then give a royal whoopin.

This is when sonic elemental attacks are your friend. As far as feasibility, I'll be going over the book to see what I can find that messes this up.

First, you can't "turn it into a drone". There are listings for vehicles, and listings for drones. There isn't any method in the book to change from one to the other. So, if you want the 20 armor & 10 personal armor, you're stuck with a car. Also, you forgout about smart armor, get some of that on there for some extra armor.


You can actually get up to 4 armor on cyberlimbs. So with 6 limbs, that'd be an extra 24 armor.


Here, I'd say you can't fit 2 ballistic shields inside your cocoon.


You're wrong here.
Arsenal, 45, "Clothing lines whose components may be combined in this manner are noted with a © on the tables." Only that clothing lines components may be combined together. Not with other lines, and not with generic armor either.


Problem, this is only valid for the actual worn armor pieces. So, riot control, and form fit.


Hardening spell? I can't find this anywhere, what are you talking about?


Ok, so theres the issues and things you missed that I found.


Problems.
How do you get into the rigger cocoon? I'm pretty sure all the armor just worn by the character reduces his agi and reaction into the negatives. But, just to make sure I have everything I'll break it into worn and not
Not Worn:
1) Car, 20 armor, 10 concealed
7) Armor Spell 6 (6/6)
Physical Barrier 6 (6/6)
9) Rigger Cocoon (10/10)
13) Hardening spell? Doesn't exist?

Worn: Value, Encumbrance, Total worn armor
2) Riot control armor 6/9 (6/9) (6/9)
3) Form fitting 6/2 (9/10) (12/11)
4) ballistic shields, 12/8 (21/18) (24/19)
5) PPP 2/6 (23/24) (26/25)
6) 24/24 cyberlimbs (24/24) (47/48) (50/49)
10) Helmet (2/2) (49/50) (52/51)
11) Nothing, doesn't count
12) Gelpacks (2/2) (51/52) (54/53)

So, we've got 51/52 for armor counting against your agi/reaction scores. I think you said Body 5 somewhere... so 10 is our base stat. So, we exceed 10 by 41 and 42 points each. thats -21 to agi and reaction for each rating. -42 total. I don't think you're doing much of anything, because your initiative score is non-existant.


Total I get is 96/95 and thats with max cyberware, and the force 6 spells.


And if you do end up doing that, you will fall down, if you get shot and take even 1 point of damage. Then again, going by that, since they are unlimited in how many you can put in, just buy form fit, and pack in the gel packs to infinity. As many as you can buy. (I think thats why its 1 per piece).



Do note, you are taking a -42 penalty to your reaction and agi, which includes your initiative. So, good luck actually getting an initiative score in which you can move. Also, as I said above, sonic attacks will eat your face. Or any elemental with engulf engulfing you. Or needing to fit in a small space. Or not being arrested on the spot for how much restricted/illegal stuff you have on.

Oh, as far as driving it? Guess what thats based off... yeah, reaction. So, -42 + your actual reaction, lets say 6 = -36. + Vehicle skill (lets say 7) = -29. +2 for spec = -27. Lets assume its got good handling, +3 = -24. VR +2 - 22. Control Rig +2 = -20.

You can't drive the vehicle around either. You're just a very armored hunk of metal that can't move.

Technically, you're wrong here. Any vehicle may act as a drone if it's been rigger-adapted.

But that does not make it a drone. It acts like one, but it isn't one.
Ahh, here we go. Arsenal, 131, "Drones
In the SR4 rules, drones are a subgroup of vehicles, so every time the term “vehicle� is used, this includes drones. There are five specific drone vehicle types, based on their Body value: microdrones (Body 0), minidrones (Body 1), small drones (Body 2), medium drones (Body 3), and heavy drones (Body 4).
When the threshold or modifi cation costs are based on a vehicle’s Body value, note that the modification costs and thresholds for microdrones (Body 0) are based on a Body of 2 (their smaller parts are more expensive)."

Its defined based on where they're listed. Things listed under Drone headings for gear are drones. While things under a vehicle type such as Groundcraft are vehicles.

I'll see that and raise you:


So, it's being rigger-adapted and having a Pilot that define a drone. Not where it is on a table. In fact, there's an argument that any vehicle with a Pilot program is therefore rigger-adapted and thus a drone.

I am glad people are here looking at everything and talking. As of now I am currently on lunch break and don't have much time to address some of the points brought up but I will take a whack at one thing.

I used the term 'Hardening spell" which I believe I got from another game, there is a spell (in street magic methinks) that makes objects harder increasing the structure rating and armor value of whatever object it is applied too. Once again I don't have my books but that was the end result, I also believe the Ant Spirits had a similar power, possibly by the same name.

I also may point out that this is simply a exercise to see how high of a armor value you can get, I am not looking to make this the end all character, if Sonic damage "eats my face" then it does. Unless you want to go looking for something to protect you, but again getting counter spelling dice and a good will isn't to hard if you are a spellcaster, IIRC a Adversity spirit not only helps on Manipulation dice (which most of my spells are) but also gives you +2 Counter dice on top of that. That might be helpful to those of you who want to use something along these lines.

And I'll emphasize "may serve as drones". Serving as a drone does not a drone make.

I believe he's referring to the Reinforce spell?

No, but being rigger-adapted does make it a drone. That's pretty much all there is to it.

Ah, yes, that'd work. Assuming the car is less than 6 square meters of area. (Odd, you'd think they'd use cubic meters for area...)

You also forgot to have your car possessed by a Force 12 spirit, then having yourself possessed by a force 12 spirit.

I'd say just encase everything in hardened concreate with steel rod enforcing bars. now your talking armor.

Orbital Bovine Bombardment

Nah, just have some mage come by and soundwave them. Force 5, overcast at 10. Assuming at least a hit is 11 Stun damage, armor doesn't protect from it, and if it does more than your willpower you have nausea and can't do anything for 3 combat turns. Assuming it doesn't knock you flat out. Then just hit them with another one and you're good to go.

Actually, I think thats my new magical assassin character. Just a mage with soundwave.

ah, sonics, the one element that all druids forget to ward against

Me senses OOTS. But yes, everyone always forgets about sound... till they go deaf, then it's the first thing they notice.

Even so, about the best you could do would be double up sound barrier and silence spell for their force in armor. So... 24 or so, if you did 2 force 12 spells. Thats on average 6 boxes soaked, which still isn't enough to save you.

Smoke elemental attacks would also work, as long as they hadn't sealed off their suit/vehicle.

i could say it was unintentional but then i would have to roll a damn good bluff check

btw, was there ever cleared what was right when a elemental effect said one damage type but the spell entry itself said another?

The spell lists its damage code. It uses the secondary effects from the listed elemental effect. So, there is no contradiction. Lightning bolt does P damage as a spell, but has electrical secondary effects. A taser does electrical damage (half and insulation protects) and stun because thats what the electrical damage section states.

In addition to what Tarantula wrote, specific cases always win out over general rules. For example, the BBB says you cannot ever have more than 4 IP's, yet Unwired allows you to have 5. The specific case always wins out.

ugh, sometimes one wish one had the lawyers take on words.

i just spotted that the text for both sound and electric damage use the words "is treated as", not "does".

i guess its a way of saying that if there shows up something in a book that says it has a special effect (like a automatic reduction) on stun damage, it also affects these kinds of elemental effects, even tho the elemental effect does physical damage.

or in other words, its "pre-overflowed" damage

Uhh, no. I'm pretty sure the "is treated as" means they realize that sound/electrical damage isn't quite what is "Stun" damage as the track is described, but that the damage caused by it is still tracked on the stun damage track.

Exceptions of course, change this, such as lightning bolt, which only takes the secondary effects from the electricity damage.


Things that reduce stun damage would reduce damage from a taser, but not from a lightning bolt.

ok, bad example. but that little difference in word use makes it easier (for me at least) to combo a attack doing physical damage with a elemental effect said to be acting as stun damage. it just becomes very very bad stun damage.

but then maybe im making mountains out of molehills

How about this...
The reason they say "is treated as stun damage" is because it really isn't stun damage. Its electrical, its burning and frying you internally. Or its sonic, causing molecules to collide where they shouldn't be. Typically, this is stun damage, so thats how it listed. When its bad enough to be Physical (like a lightning bolt) it explicitly changes it to P to represent that the level of damage done by the electricity is more like the physical damage track than the stun one in that case.

1) Cain: By "setup" I was assuming you were going to snipe me (Surprise me) so I cannot defend against the attack, unless I am forgetting something I should be able to try and avoid the shot. If I am able to try a dodge then simply going off of your edge might not be enough to even land a shot on me.

2) Its also been mentioned about the huge penalty to my Agi/Reaction, the point is moot if I won't be moving at all, IIRC while "Jumped in" I use the vehicles attribute bonuses + my skill to determine what I want to do. Even with Custom Armor which is Body x3 the massive penalty to reaction (which effects my initiative) cannot be circumvented other then by spending a Edge point to always go first. Wont matter if I go last if I am nearly indestructible. EDIT: I vaguely remember something about using the vehicles Response to calculate initiative. I am not sure if this would apply to you or not.

3) It also goes to say that the Vehicle (Car or Bike) will be airtight and hardwired to avoid any hacking attempts, also I know having Polarized glass blocks LOS so you wont be able to target me with any spells or include me in their effects as you have to be able to see me, that means you will have to damage my Mecha before getting to me, and since it has a nice body of 10 on top of it being a highly processed item you will need 5+ successes to damage it not including my active counterspell and any additional items to increases resistance like Audio Dampers (or simply being unable to hear) etc etc. While no form of defense is fullproof everything can be defended against.

4) A Control Rig vehicle is a drone and follows Drone rules.

5) Tarantula : Good catch on the extra armor from Cyber limbs, a extra 24 is pretty sexy. I will reconfigure the numbers in a bit to reflect that.

6) You can also "suggest" you cannot fit two shields into a cocoon, however the rules simply do not support that, if a Troll can fit inside one with equipment then I will say I can fit a Human with two shields, it also ironically does not list any sort of dimensions of the "Egg" so I suppose the sky is the limit.

7) The Gel packs were included into every worn peice of armor the PPP included in this number. IIRC every form of armor (yes even a shield) has a capacity rating which the gel packs can go into)

8] As Cain has pointed out the spell is called Reinforce.

9) Also on the subject of getting into the cocoon is a moot point, it can be done however you want Crane/Friendly Help/Levitate etc etc. The rules are silent on what happens if a stat was to hit 0 or less, so I until I find out otherwise I am going to assume a stat cannot be dropped below 0 (not including cyberzombies etc etc). With that in mind even with all the worn armor (spells don't count against it FYI) you will still be able to move around and depending on STR score you might not even be encumbered (weight wise)

10) Assuming you actually put more than 1 gel pack per armor (up to max capacity) "falling down" wont matter since 1) you will never take damage and 2) even if you do you are laying down inside of a robot, you cant "Fall" when you are already prone.

11) I doubt reaction can go below 0, as mentioned the rules are silent on what happens with such large modifiers, which means you can still pilot your mech effectively OR you can let the mech drive itself. It IS a drone after all with the accompanying pilot program.

12) Also depending on a weapon load out you can easily kill just about everything (not including spells) Even that nasty ship mounted weapon that Halves your Impact then applies another -8 wont be enough to stop you as you can just buy enough successes to stop the damage or avoid getting hit etc etc. Also remember any damage incurred by your mech can be fixed within a combat turn.

Some of my favorite weapon layouts are...

Gatling Guns (Due to being mounted they suffer no recoil) which has a sexy DV of 25+ depending on variables with a Ap of -3 to -10

Full Auto Laser Guns, Even without being mounted they suffer no recoil, meaning you can shoot something with a DV of 15+ with half impact.

Or even a Sniper Rifle

Hope this helps

EDIT: Its also worth noting that depending on contacts/how you created a character/ or even paying for spellcasting services, you could possibly get a spell overchannled to Force 24 with a person who is fully initiated. Increases the final numbers another +36. I should also mention that UNLESS YOU WANT TOO, you are not actually sustaining any of your defensive spells, the job of sustaining them will go to friendly mages casting and sustaining for you or Adept friends with Living Focus. Possibly even spirits depending on your character.

I am not sure what this actually does, penny for the poor

Quick answers...
2) Reaction penalty matters. SR4, 159, "To make a vehicle test, the character rolls Reaction + the
appropriate vehicle skill +/– the vehicle’s Handling."
You can never pass a crash test. You can never take hard maneuvers.

3) Tasers can still short it out and cause it to reboot. So can lightning bolts. Having it be airtight still doesn't prevent area effect smoke elemental spells or sound spells from messing you up.

4) Incorrect. Drones are listed under drone headers. Just because it functions as a drone, does not mean it is a drone.

5) Yes, cyberlimbs are teh sex.

6) Yes, I suggested, but I still took the shields into the count because it is not banned.

7) Anything that is an armor modifier is not a seperate part of the armor. SR4, 317, "Helmets and shields do not
count as separate pieces of armor; instead, they modify the rating of worn armor by their rating (see Armor and Encumbrance, p. 149)."
This means only form fit, and the riot control armor is valid for seperate modifications.

Yes, it is. Good luck having it high enough force to encompass the area of the vehicle.

9) There is precedent for what happens when a stat hits 0. Negative health spells. SR4, 200, "If a Physical attribute or Initiative is reduced to 0, the victim is incapacitated or paralyzed. If a Mental attribute is reduced to 0, the victim stands about mindlessly confused."

10) True, getting knocked down when you're in a cocoon is pretty worthless.

11) As I said in #9, you would be unable to move at all. Period. No actions, nothing.

12) Electric damage could be argued to bypass most of the vehicle armor since it is most likely to be metal. And once your suit is shut down, they can start tearing their way inside it.

1) The question is can your reaction go below 0? If not then its your skill +/- your handling. Also as mentioned the car can drive itself

2) Electricity resistance? You also have to hit with the taser, I also kinda remember a vehicle upgrade that can protect the soft bits of the car. Some sort of box...my memory is a bit fuzzy.

3) Still makes it a Drone, although while I am willing to debate it the option was simply presenting for those who wanted 20/20 armor in a Horseman. The Main car still does not suffer this.

4)

Ouch got me there, although now I am tempted to put more than one gel-pack in simply to maintain numbers.

5) Finding out exactly how large the vehicle really is sounds like fun. Although something I cannot do ATM

6) The precedent you mention is a property of the spell. Only that spell will incur that effect.

7) IIRC most things in Shadowrun do not use Ferrous Metals, citing such things like Plasteel or something, so it is a toss up on if a Lighting spell etc etc can channel the charge through the car. Also once again reminding you that you need net hits over 4 to start affecting the car and then needing to bypass counterspell dice.

Oh, I *could* use a sniper rifle, but I thought that the flechette pistol would be even more amusing. In either case, you cannot Dodge, as your reaction would be in the negatives. You might be able to Longshot it, but with your proposed Edge of 4, you're only going to average 1.33 successes, rounded to 1-- not enough to totally dodge. And if I was using a sniper rifle, I'd pack it with flechette ammo, so it's have a base of 11P. Added to my two net successes, that's 13P; with your body of 5, you'd only get 1.66 successes, rounded to two; that leaves you with 11P damage. In short, you die.


You do not recall correctly. It's still Reaction + Skill when jumped in. However, you could run it as a drone.


Actually going to side with you on this one. If it's rigger adapted, it has a Pilot, and therefore is a Drone.

Yes, but being nonliving, it doesn't get a resistance test. Once you cross the threshold, that's all she wrote.

The basic point is, even this setup is far from invincible. One called shot can seriously ruin your day. So what if you have to Longshot it, you still stand a good chance of taking your rigger down.

There is no such thing as 'fully initiated'. Magic does not have a cap, nor does Initiation, and as such is theoretically limitless.

Regardless, if this kind of thing, and the armor mentioned earlier are examples of things that happen in your game, then you and I are definitely not playing in the same ballpark.

My apologies by "Fully Initiated" I assumed a Max of 12

I figured as much.

The point being there are no 'maximums' as far as Magic is concerned, so if you are going to start farming off spellcasting and sustaining to high-powered contacts, then there is no theoretical limit to the Force of the spell, and hence no way to calculate an accurate final total.

I'm sure this is just a theoretical exercise, like the pornomancer. Of course, this is outside the reach of a standard starting character (Force 24 spells, at least), but it's a fun exercise nonetheless. Even more fun is coming up with ways to defeat it.

Not if you use Karma to build a character, then Force 24 spells are a breeze. If you think this is fun when I get some more time I will post a few of the other things I thought up, 36+ DV twice per round or completly maxed out everything all with a starting character

Until then though I leave you with...
This..