I guess what sparked the comment was the use of unquantifiable outside forces. At least the Pornomancer (and even Mr. Lucky ) is canon-legal without resorting to contracting out abilities to high-powered contacts (who should and would know better).

How much karma does that take? You'd spend 231 karma on raising your magic alone, not even including the cost of initiation. Would that leave you with much of anything for stats and skills? Or gear to buy your mechatank with?

Also, IIRC, initiating during chargen, even under karmagen, is an optional rule requiring GM permission.

Honestly, I think this whole little exercise has a lot of things stacking that really weren't intended to. No sane GM would allow any of this.

Can you quote some pages for me? I am pretty sure everything adds up as described, although without my arsenal book I will need to wait to take a look at my 1/0 scarf. Everything here works with ways to "bypass it" not withstanding. If you can drop some page numbers for me to write down I will surely take a look when I grab my main rulebook this weekend.

I see what you did there!

I was wondering about what doesn't stack, the playability of this character depends on the group.

If the Vehicle isn't possessed a possession mage would make you hurt.

The down side - Your character would have to be in hot sim to use the response chip instead of your normal agi/reaction. This means that if the car takes damage you can take damage as well. You will be able to use that bio feedback filter, but it may not be enough. This whole thing is like an onion it can be cracked. Possessing the vehicle and then just having a demo expert slap 20-40 lbs of shaped high rating plastic explosives and your car will be a smoking crater.

Step 1 possess vehicle
Step 2 have demo expert run up and place explosives
Step 3 run like hell
Step 4 unpossess the vehicle
Step 5 detonate

The spirit might also be able to accident the sensors while it is possessing the vehicle. Even if the car is possessed there are always ways to knock it out of commission as the armor only applies to hitting the character himself. Exploding the car and then feasting on the gooey innards inside is a viable option.

Nothing says it can't, and the armor encumbrance says -1 for every 2 points over. So, yes, it can. Does it make you stop moving? No, because the rules don't say that, but it would be a negative addition to your dice pool.


Non-conductivity? Gives you a +6 against electrical. And you can still get hit by the secondary efffects.


No, it doesn't. See Arsenal, 102, Drone Sizes, "Though all drones are considered vehicles, the term drone is generally used to refer to vehicles that are not designed to carry passengers or are specifi cally designed for remote/unmanned usage."
Also, Arsenal, 131, "In the SR4 rules, drones are a subgroup of vehicles, so every time the term “vehicle� is used, this includes drones. Th ere are fi ve specifi c drone vehicle types, based on their Body value: microdrones (Body 0), minidrones (Body 1), small drones (Body 2), medium drones (Body 3), and heavy drones (Body 4)."

And I'd argue that since it says "Gel Packs" and there is no base capacity cost. You can add them only once. Much like radiation shielding or ruthenium coating below them. One time addition.


By RAW, mods don't increase the size of the vehicle. So if you start with a Body 10 car then it stays that size.


In which case your attributes go negative due to the penalties. This doesn't do anything, but will be a negative against your dice pool when calculating for any rolls that use those attributes.


Not ferrous metals no, but metal is still conductive. And electrical damage specifically states that metal armor is no protection to it.



Easiest way to break this. The accident power. With your reaction penalty there is no possible way to succeed at a vehicle test. You just need to take 3-4 accidents and you'll be dead.

Also, SR4, 134, "If damage modifiers reduce a character’s Initiative Score to zero or less, that character does not get any actions during that Combat Turn." Is a very good precedent for the GM not letting you do anything until you can get a positive initiative score.

Hrm, that gives me an idea. Called Shot to bypass armor with a grenade. Instant Chunky-Salsa!

Mmm-hmm:


Unless, of course, it's overmodded. Which I'm pretty sure this mecha would be. Then it's anything goes.

Being jumped in Hot Sim means he uses Response + Intuition, instead of the normal one. So, in this case, he's right and would have a positive initiative score. Mind you, his vehicle tests are still Reaction-based, so he wouldn't be able to jmp into the vehicle, but he can order the drone about.

Notice how my arsenal quote mentions the SR4 rules, and goes on to clarify them? Yeah, it trumps the general statement given in SR4. Plus its a newer book.

This vehicle isn't, because the only mods it has to have are armor, and rigger cocoon.

Sure, but how does he get an action to jump to hot sim? He never can, since he never gets an action in all that armor.

Your rules quote doesn't actually refer to the SR4 rules at all (no page references). Newer book aside, it's not a more specific example, and doesn't directly contradict what the SR4 book says.

As for the jump to hot sim, he just disables the RAS override and makes the jump before he puts on all the armor.

"There are five specific drone vehicle types, based on their Body value: microdrones (Body 0), minidrones (Body 1), small drones (Body 2), medium drones (Body 3), and heavy drones (Body 4)."
Is considerably much more specific. There are 5 drone types, based off body numbers. Period. That is an all inclusive statement. There are no drones with body higher than 4.

If he disables the RAS override and is putting on armor, he is using physical initiative, and won't be able to keep putting armor on once he hits enough negatives.

All of the last three pages simply go to prove the old adage, that when you munchkin you make papa cry.

Is it my imagination or is fourth edition more prone to this type of thing than earlier editions?


Isshia

That is silly, I will go so far as to say when not IN combat you can do whatever since "combat" passes do not exisit outside of combat.



This is also silly, not saying it doesn't doesn't is not a valid way to debate. The rules don't SAY humans cannot fly so that means I can. The rules will have to explicitly say that it would go below 0, it also doesn't say that it does. Which is why I said the rules are silent on the issue, the only precedent is a spell that reduces the stats and explains the consequences of using that spell.
However nothing else in the game does that, I could be COVERED in a mountian of armor and still have stats 1+ with a huge penalty, but I still have stats.

Wrong. Nothing says that you cannot have a negative attribute. The armor penalties say that you get -1 to agi/reac for every 2 points over body you are. If you have body 1, agi 1, and rea 1. You put on armored clothing (4/0). You are 2 points over your bodyx2, and take -1 to agi reac. Making you Bod 1, Agi 0, Rea 0. The rules are silent on what happens when you have a 0 or negative attribute, but they can happen due to stacking armor. Now, say you put on a helmet. (2/2) Armor total is now (6/2). You've now exceeded bodyx2 by 4. Thats a -2 to agi/reac. Making the values Bod 1, Agi -1, Rea -1. The rules do not say that attributes can not go negative, but they do say you take an increasing penalty for more armor. This means the attributes can go negative. There is no affect on this, you can still move and the like, but say, if you made a gymnastics test. You'd have agi (-1) + gymnastics skill (whatever) = gymnastics skill -1 total for your pool to roll.



As far as moving and the like while in the armor, a GM wouldn't be stepping out of line to say "make a gymnastics test to keep your balance. Oh, you auto-failed. You want to get up? Gymnastics test to stay standing. Oh, you failed."

Alternately, come up with weight, and apply the lifting rules.

The problem with Fourth Edition being prone to this kind of silliness is that the game system already breaks to the point of bad anime at high dicepools, which sadly are fairly easy to have at char gen, which in turn encourages more bad anime tricks like this one.

Yep. The benefit of older editions was you also had higher target numbers. So trying on a TN 4 test and then trying a TN 8 test, you had to hope for some 6s and then another good roll.

Though I did have a player whose character managed to successfully build himself a rating 12 (across the board) cranial cyberdeck. Too bad our gaming group broke up shortly after due to RL issues (military, college, etc). I was curious to see it in action in his hands.

high dice pools still allowed characters to do things that would make a wageslave scream in terror, and not break a sweat about it.

a flexible target number just means that the goal posts are mobile, it does not fix the issue of godzilla out out of the box.

True, but flexible TNs do tend to make anime BS allot more improbable then a fixed TN does.

why "anime"?

its not like anime is the only place we see people leap buildings...

as for improbable, it depends on how one apply the results of the die, but there the devs may have done a less then perfect job as the number of hits to roll against (thats not some out of behind treshold set by the gm) more often then not are harder to increase then the number of dice rolled.

hmm, it just dawned on me that earlier editions didnt have one target number, it had two. first the minimum required result on the die, and then the number of dice need to get equal or above said number to get a worthwhile result.

as such you could basically square the difficulty with minor manipulations of both...

and then there was the 2:1 system of increases, so that often even if a die managed to get above the target number, it had no effect on the outcome.

all in all the system was much more stacked against the roller...

Because most of the outlandish examples that I see thrown around on Dumpshock fall clearly into the anime genre in style.

bah, dress them in spandex and call them superheros

*chuckles* Excellant Point, but I don't want a cyberpunk ruleset that is better at protraying the Four Color Genre than cyberpunk either.

Player hands me sheet.

I look at it.

"No."

You missed the laughing the hitting with all rule books used. Then laughing some more. Then "NO!"

meh, i dont think you will ever find a game that portrays true cyberpunk any more then you will find a game that portrays a true detective novel. for that a static piece of text allows one to delve on the psychology and similar at much greater length then a game does, especially a game played in a group of people on their spare time (a slighty odd concept in its own right, btw).

btw, tristat was designed to recreate anime, right? had a look at ex machina? ones one get beyond the concept of looking at cyberware as a collection of tristat effects, it made for a nice cyberpunk game. to bad the company folded soon after.

thing is that tristat, hero system or similar can do cyberpunk, if one explains the powers/effects right, and keeps it at the lower end of the game scale...

Nope. You could break SR3, but only with effort. In SR4, you can do this on accident.

One of the reasons I instituted a dice pool limit in my games was because it was too easy to get dicepools past 20, and break the game. I also discovered early on how a high Edge could break things (witness how a high Edge plus a broken Called Shot rule renders his entire setup pointless).


Funny you should mention Tri-Stat; Adam Jury worked on Dreaming Cities for them. That's also urban fantasy, which is more like what Shadowrun is than straight cyberpunk.

If it's really such a problem, first off he's out of combat, so he can load himself with armor and still walk into the mech.

If it's that much of a problem, then simply buy 2 Renraku Manservants (5,000, or 1 BP/2 KP), and say "Squires! The King demands an outing: ARMOR!", and slip into VR as the Manservants armor you. Then, when they're finished, have the mecha pop it's top and load you into itself.

Also, with the Shin-Syung (or whatever) with 14 mod slots, walker mode, 2 arms, armor, and a rigger cocoon, you're running 7 slots, with 7 more open. So, in the event of EMP or electrical attacks, just toss in a Faraday Cage; disaster averted. Not to mention that there's a test for electrical damage auto-shutdown.

If this post looks odd, that's because it's early (or late, wha-evah) and I don't have my books open ATM.

His agi and rea are in the negatives. I think that deserves at least a balance or strength check to get into the mech.


Technically, it says it takes the rigger one minute to get into the cocoon, and doesn't say other people can help.


Yeah, I realized after posting about the electrical attacks that it'd get 1/2 armor. Except, for the vehicle, thats only the 20 armor it has, so 1/2 is 10. Still a decent chance you could overload it. As far as a faraday cage? Vehicles are one, for the most part. Ever wonder why you're safe from lightning if you stay inside your car?

No, sir, no. The Faraday Cage makes the VEHICLE immune to electricity (or EMP or both, whatever). And if it's really SUCH a problem for you, lets drop the armor to more manageable levels, so he's around 120/120 instead of 140/140.

Electromagnetic Shielding Arsenal, 135, vehicle mod is what you're talking about.

Bonus dice of rating against electrical attacks, comes in rating 1-6. So, at best, 20 armor and that mod rating 6, gives you 16 dice to resist secondary effects.

Oh, and while you have it, you can't have sensors beyond the coverage of the cage. Good luck detecting the people trying to kill you.

Edit:
And even more likely, most GMs would probably agree that most vehicle armor is metallic, and as such, wouldn't provide any benefit to electric damage. So all you'd get is the 6 from the shielding.

I'm Back! More discussion on my part later but I feel the need to point out that the success test for electricity damage is 2 (MAYBE) 3, you can just BUY the successes don't even have to roll.

Interestingly enough I went back and read the rules for "Called Shot" and by the wording it seems to assume you can locate the target by some means. Giving examples of Opaque windows or Smoke. If this character was entirely encapsulated (and he is on multiple levels) then how can you declare a "Called shot"? Even the blindfire rules take into account you somehow know the target is there.

(PS: The vehicle as described actually has 32 armor with the possibility of 42 max, not including any bonus dice from hardening or the like)

I also believe this was brought up earlier by someone, but while "jumped in" to the car this character uses his (Vehicle Skill + Response) for ANY vehicle tests.

So even a -42+ modifier means nothing, this information of course comes from the Shadowrun 4th FAQ under Rigging/Drones

EDIT: Also this mech (which I envision to look something like Lancelot from Code Geass) is only around 11-14 feet tall, as I quickly scanned through the thread again I noticed people talking about how large this mech is. It could fit inside a normal house!

There's no hard rule one way or the other. There is "GM discretion"; but once again, a GM who allows this sort of game-breaking mecha into his game is probably going to allow the game-breaking called shot as well.

You *could* require that the shooter use the blind fire rules, and roll Intuition instead of Quickness. But frankly, since we're discussing a longshot test anyway, it really doesn't make a whole heck of a difference.

No, you can't buy the successes. Thats for out of combat things that don't have a negative for failing. Like doing a data search for a good restaurant. In combat, you roll, and there is a decent change you'll get incapacitated.



Hrm. Since by RAW you can still do things with a negative attribute (cause I haven't found where it says what happens it it falls below 0) I'm back to just shooting your vehicle to hell and back with a lightning ball. Its armor is metallic, so at most you get 6 from electrical shielding. By the way, the test is against hits scored on the attack. Which is likely to be quite a few. If you'd like, I'll stat up the lightning ball throwing mage for you, but your 6 response will at best negate 2 hits. I guarantee the mage will still have at least 4 coming through (to make sure you're effected). Assuming my mage is smart and throws a force 12 at you, thats 16P you're looking at. 10 body + 6 counterspelling (and 0 armor cause its metallic) will save you from 5 of that. So the drone would take 9P. Rolling your 10 Body vs the 4 hits he hit you with, you'll get 3. Meaning your drone stops working for 6 turns. (2 + net hits on attack (4)). Since its a lightning ball, you get to resist that damage too. Now, with half your armor, you can probably do it, but you might take one or two damage. Oh, and that trode net/commlink you've got on? Yeah, they get to resist elemental effects too (gotta love area spells). And I'll bet one of them shuts off, giving you dumpshock. Oh, and since you're in VR.... I'd assume hot (for that extra juicy IP) you would get to resist an additional 5S with a simple willpower+biofeedback test. Assuming 6 for each, you'll take an extra 1stun from that. Since the commlink/trodenet will likely be disabled from the lightning, you'll get dumped out of the matrix, and suck dumpshock too. For another 1Stun, and a -2 for 4 minutes. Of course, you won't be doing a whole lot, being stuck in your rigger cocoon, with a negative initiative.

The pilot of that mecha has counterspelling, not to mention the possiblity of adding Non-conductivity.

Also, just because the vehicle's chassis is made out of metal doesn't mean that the armor that we add to it has to be metal as well. I'd personally prefer to put a composit plastic on my car, expecially since all that metal would decrease my MPG. Even if he doesn't get 1/2 his impact armor for the save, it'd still be a Body (2) test, easily attainable with 10 dice to roll.

I took into account 6 counterspelling. And yes, he could add non-conductive, and likely avoid taking damage from the attack. Still wouldn't help his trode net avoid being shut off. And he still gets to resist the secondary effects. Though hes almost guaranteed to avoid that.

Body (2)? You mean body vs hits the attack had. In this case, 4.

No, I mean the Body + Armor (3) test that machines need to make. Re-read the Electricity damage section. They shut down for 2 + net hits, but the test is only (3). And it's 3, not 2. A little more risky.

By the way, why would his trode net shut down? You didn't shoot that.

And you still ignore the fact that just because the chassis is metal doens't mean that the armor is. In fact, I don't know of any (non-military) cars that are 100% metal. Most have fiberglass frames.

SR4, 154, "Electronic equipment, vehicles, and drones can also be affected by Electricity damage. They never suffer Stun damage, but they do roll Body + Armor (drones and vehicles) or Armor x 2 (other objects) to resist secondary effects. If they achieve equal or more hits than the attack, they are unaffected. Otherwise, they cease to function for a number of Combat Turns equal to 2 + net hits scored on the attack test (and may need to reboot after that)."
It is not a body + armor (3). It is against the hits the attack got.

Because it is a lightning BALL. I shot everything in a 12 meter radius. So yes, I did shoot it, and his commlink, and all sorts of other things.

If vehicle armor isn't metal, what is? What kind of armor is tank armor? Typically? Also, it doesn't care what the frame of the car is, only the armor. Since this vehicle has tank equivalent armor (20) I think its a safe assumption its metallic.

Tarantula, HE IS NOT IN A TANK! He is in a CAR that has ARMOR on it! What armor is the Armor Vest? How about the Long Coat? What armor is Milspec armor made out of? Just because it says armor doesn't mean it is metal.

Why are you so afraid of this working?

He is in a car, which is armored to the maximum possible amount for any vehicle. I'd call that tank armor. It is a GM call as to whether the armor is metallic or not. Either way, his commlink/trodenet will shut off, for a little while, which is plenty long enough to do whatever else you'd like to do the vehicle while its missing its driver.

I'm not afraid of this working, I just don't think that it does. The fact that his attributes are in the negatives attests to this. It does not work. There is plenty of backup in the rules for an attribute that is below 0 causing you to be unable to take any action at all. That alone makes this not work.

Since when did a lightning ball travel through barriers?

It hits the area. The vehicle and the passenger are in the area, thus, they are hit. Vehicles are not barriers.

That aside, let's say he gets just armored enough to move (ignoring the fact he can get drones to armor him anyways, and go VR before he hits this 'point of no return' with armor). Even then his armor only drops like 20 points. It's still well above 100/100.

No, it drops considerably. The best counter is still the soundwave spell. Cast it a few times at force 6. The mage will die.


I don't remember what body was given, so I'll go with 3, the standard. Means he gets 6 points unpenalized. Assuming 3 on rea or agi (either one, as only the lowest applies) means he can only go up to 12 before any more armor on his person would cause him to drop to 0. He can get some formfit, which adds an extra 2/1 or so that doesn't count against encumbrance. So thats 14/13 he can get worn. Then he gets the vehicle armor 20, personal armor 10, and rigger cocoon. Actually, looking at the rigger cocoon, it doesn't stack as armor, but is treated as a barrier instead. So that doesn't add unless they specifically try to shoot him through it. So, thats 14/13+20/20+10/10 = 44/43. Thats a far cry from 100+.

Oh, and if you go back to the spell benefits, have him cast them himself, or else they aren't reliable. By the same token, I buy (insert great dragon here) contact at 6/6 with 12BP and have him cast a force 39423049 armor spell on me, look, I WIN!

Excellent I have a few points I would like to bring up

1) If the Rigger Cocoon is indeed a Barrier then you NEED to bypass the Armor/Structure rating of the item to damage anything inside.

2) The character concept needed to make this work in the first post was un-statted, however let me throw out some numbers this character should have to address the above posts.

Magic = 6
Counter Spelling 6 (Combat) = 8 (or 9 if you take aptitude)
Adversity Spirit = +2
= 16 (17) dice just for counterspelling, this is not including the other things that exist to increase it further

Add the above numbers with a WILL of 6, and you have 22 (23) to resist your spell not including other modifiers. You DO have a will of 6 don't you? I know I do if I use it to resist drain. I am not sure if it matters, but remember all that armor the character has? You cane easily give it Non-Conductivity R6 2-3 times netting you a 12-18 dice pool tacked on to the above numbers, although I am not sure if it would apply to resist a spell (I know it would apply to that Body+Willpower test)

3) You can and I quote " Trade in 4 dice for a auto hit, gamemasters should allow this when a character has a exceptionally large dice pool and failure is unlikely" I personally have never seen a Shadowrun game that disallowed the use of Buying Hits. Then to add insult to injury in the combat section of the main book it gives examples of buying hits for high armor/body vehicles or barriers

4) The Mech in question has 32-44 Armor

Armor 20
Renforce Spell 6-12
Armor Spell 6-12
Tack on Nonconductivity 6 for a total of 38-50 dice...Oh wait you need to halve it... so 19-25 dice to resist the effects of the electricity damage...MORE than enough. I also forgot to mention to even begin to hurt the thing with magic you need 4 Successes to START OFF WITH, then every success after 4 (I.E. 5+) then become net successes. SO if you fired off a Force 12 spell (Assuming you are incredibly lucky and got exactly 12 successes) then I need to counterspell you with my 16 dice (above) I will just buy 4 successes and turn your 12 net hits into 4 net hits (including the object resistence test above). The damage then becomes 16 damage which can be further reduced by the 19-25 dice...wait! I then get to add in Body (I think?) so that becomes 29-35. Sure I will probably take some damage but on my turn I will use the FIX spell and remove the damage you just did. In the end you end up further behind since you just probably took damage from drain. How many more times could you do that then?

5) In previous posts I suggested the "character" has 5 body, not to far of a assumption.

6) Neraph has a point, where does it say ANYWHERE in the book that the added armor is metal>? I would say the armor is actually a composite mix such as Plasteel, Ceramic, etc. Even in today's world we have Ceramic that is Harder than Steel, in fact some of the VERY best armor available to people is created with FOAM! The fluff for Shadowrun even backs this idea up stating that plain metal has become rarer with the advent of new technology and material processing techniques.

7) All of the above numbers were not including Edge, either to Add dice to the roll or to re-roll 6's. So obviously your mileage may vary. (Previously I theorized this character has 4 edge)

A dragon contact? Crazy, even if you got one they (yes even a great dragon) are incapable of casting a spell of that level. In fact the presented Great Dragons are weak enough to be killed in one combat turn of shooting, if they could cast such a large armor spell (what with their infinite magic of 12) don't you think they would?

9) The above character can do all this himself without the use of contacts/friends to cast spells for him. However I have no objection to some of my contacts being adepts with the Living Focus positive quality, or maybe some bound psirits to sustain my spells for me.

I'm not saying my defense is perfect, but it is certinaly MUCH harder to bypass than you seem to think. In most games have a dice pool of 10+ is exceptional and tailoring a character simply to beat another is bad form and would encounter problems in most games with any situation that is outside his intended role.

Nagative. If its in the area of the indirect area spell, it gets hit. Even if blocked by LOS or by barriers.


Indirect spells. You get your dodge roll (response in the case of piloting the vehicle). Thats 2 hits at best. Then, you get body + armor + counterspelling to resist damage. So, in the case of my soundwave example, that'd be 5 body, + 0 armor, + 9 counterspelling for 14 dice total. 4 damage would be resisted.


Fine, we'll assume all your armor dice are traded in for auto-hits.


Yes, thats nice. How are you sustaining those spells? -4 penalty to everything? Ok, thats nice. That makes your response to dodge the spell a 2 instead of a 4, which is 0 hits. Spell is force 12, + 12 net hits = 24S damage. You get Body (5) + 0 armor (cause its soundwave) + counterspelling 9 = 14 dice. Average 4 hits. 24S - 4 = 20S. Will of 6 = 11 stun damage track. Body 5 = 11 physical track. You are knocked out, and 2 damage away from bleeding out. Oh, but you were in VR, and got knocked out, hello dumpshock, you suck another 5S? i think, which will overflow and probably kill you.

Even with lightning instead. you still get 0 hits, and i get 12 net hits. That means you need 12 hits to avoid the drone turning off. 25 dice = 6 hits. You fail, your drone is turned off for 8 combat turns, and so is your commlink, and you'll be dead inside, because it did 20P to you.


Taken into account.


Where does it say it isn't? Quote?


And he can spend the same on his spell, to avoid the force cap, and get even more successes. Do you really want me to whip up a 400bp armor destroyer mage?


I was being facecious in that you would have people casting your buff spells for you, so why not just have them cast a stupidly high armor spell instead.


Living focus doesn't help, as the spell has to be cast on the adept. Yes, you can do it yourself, and suck -4 sustaining penalty for doing so, and you will still die to one overcast soundwave.


One spell? Yeah, very hard to bypass........

1) It will indeed block the spell, there are two things you need to consider. First being LOS do you have it? A indirect combat spell does not need this. LOE Do you have it>? Even as stated in the FAQ you need to have Line of Effect in order to damage a target. Meaning any intervening barriers will have to be shot through in order to harm something behind them, incidentally I am not talking "Cover" their are separate rules governing how cover interacts with Indirect combat spells, no if LOE is blocked your boned.

2) No you dont get armor but Hush, Silence and even Sound Dampeners add to it. So out of a total of 10-12 possible spells known (5-6 skill) we have seen...

Armor
Fix
Reinforce
Physical Barrier
... I think that's it? ( I might have talked about 1-2 more spells)

So its perfectly fine to cast a 1-2 meter hush spell on the character getting a average of 6 hits, then again tacking on Hush, then having Sound Dampers (rating 3 I think?>) for a grand total of 15-27 extra dice vs Soundwave. This of course is assuming the character in question can even hear! From the way "Sound" spells work its implied that being deaf grants immunity. Heck there might even be a item somewhere that blocks all sound. Oh I forgot Add on response dice for even more fun.

3) I doubt this character (with the capabilities he/she possesses) would sustain his own spells, that's what Spirits are for. Even if he took the burden on himself the -X (where X is a number) does not apply to resistance tests. Hence the point is moot. Incidentally I thought living focus worked differently, blew my mind.

4)

I don't see where you are getting these numbers, as I explained in my post (assuming you get all 12) you would have...

12 hits - 4 for object resistance = 8
8- 4 (counterspelling, Buying not rolling) = 4

Which then means my mech would have 38-50 dice to beat 4 successes...lol
In other words I don't think there should be a problem, I also hope you haven't been thinking the electricity damage hurts the mech since ya know...its immune to stun damage. Giving you 12 hits is also extremely generous, I have seen someone toll 23 dice and barely achieve 6 hits. Then again in a debate such as this MAX numbers are the easiest way to go.

5)

I assume you are asking me for a direct quote..but for what? Remember saying "It doesn't say no" is not a valid argument. I (on my end) provided plenty of probable reasons why the armor doesn't have to be entirely made of metal, heck for all we know that 20 points of armor is gained through the judicious use of pillows.

6) I'm not saying you CAN'T add edge, I am saying it wont Matter. Its simply impossible (with the offered numbers) to generate enough hits to zzap my mech and turn him off. Even in the above example lets assume you have a edge of 6 and I will go ahead and add that to the previous total of 4 to create a nice round number 10. Out of 44+ dice I can buy 11, meaning the attack still does nothing. Also you need to keep in mind I am simply BuYing my hits and not rolling anything, you would have to roll thereby having a much larger probability of failure. Since Shadowrun needs 5+ our of a six sided dice you have a 2 out of 6 chance to succeed. If you have 6 edge dice added to your previous total fo 12 net hts (sorry 8 because of object resistance) that then ='s 14. Meaning on average you have a total of 14 -4 = 10 , still even worse than just giving you the 6 dice. Even giving you re-rolls on a 6 it still comes out to a number between 10-11.

7) I just thought of something, using Chameleon and Shadow (and that camo armor mod...whatever it was called) all clever like, we can inflict a 16-28 penalty to perception tests. Meaning unless you could somehow generate hits to see the mech it is IMMUNE to all forms of direct targeting. Interesting...I will have to look into this.