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Ragewind
Hello,

I've been asked to create a spell list for a Magician with Sorcery 7, (meaning 14 spells) Some of the spells like Increase Reflexes (Sustained w/ Foci) is a no brainer however different people can use the same spell with radically different outcomes all depending on how clever that particular person is. Hence my query, what would YOU choose and why>? If you had to make a mage what are some spells you cannot live (no pun intended) without and why do they beat others in the same category. spin.gif

Example List: rotate.gif

Increase Reflexes (for the INP's)
Stunbolt (Low drain / High Use)
Armor (Keeps you alive)
Lighting bolt (Electricity damage can shutdown electronics)
Heal (Keeps you and your team alive)
Analyze Device (Suddenly the mage can hack better than the hacker!..or drive..or shoot.. etc etc)
Karaden
Personally I think Mob Control can be exceedingly useful. Not only can it take out a huge group of enemies at once, it then proceeds to add them to your side. The drain can be a bit heavy, but a few boxes of stun can be well worth it in exchange to having half your enemies turn on each other. As an added bonus it isn't a problem if you catch allies in the spell, because you can control the individuals, or give them all a big group command that is along the lines of what your allies would do anyway (Like shoot badguy X)

And of course if you want to go for quick kills, cast this with no allies caught, and give the group command "Place barrel of gun under chin, pull trigger." or something similar.

If you can handle massive levels of drain (Ware and high stats and whatnot) Mob mind can be even more effective because the victims don't take DP penalties to aiding you, and they can't call for help or give warnings or anything.

6s (Before resit) in exchange for taking out an entire regiment of enemies? Sounds like a fair exchange to me. 6s in exchange for gaining an entire regiment of former enemies? Sounds amazing to me.

Edit: Heck, the mob mind spell can also be very useful for a passifist. Cast that on everyone and force them all to go to sleep.
Matsci
Mana Static- The Win Button vs anything magic.

AllTheNothing
QUOTE (Karaden @ Nov 2 2008, 06:31 PM) *
Personally I think Mob Control can be exceedingly useful. Not only can it take out a huge group of enemies at once, it then proceeds to add them to your side. The drain can be a bit heavy, but a few boxes of stun can be well worth it in exchange to having half your enemies turn on each other. As an added bonus it isn't a problem if you catch allies in the spell, because you can control the individuals, or give them all a big group command that is along the lines of what your allies would do anyway (Like shoot badguy X)

And of course if you want to go for quick kills, cast this with no allies caught, and give the group command "Place barrel of gun under chin, pull trigger." or something similar.

If you can handle massive levels of drain (Ware and high stats and whatnot) Mob mind can be even more effective because the victims don't take DP penalties to aiding you, and they can't call for help or give warnings or anything.

6s (Before resit) in exchange for taking out an entire regiment of enemies? Sounds like a fair exchange to me. 6s in exchange for gaining an entire regiment of former enemies? Sounds amazing to me.

Edit: Heck, the mob mind spell can also be very useful for a passifist. Cast that on everyone and force them all to go to sleep.



Doesn't Mod Control have a radius of force meters and requires line of sight? It is a wonderfull spell but it should be limited to avoid abuse, street level opponent can fall prey of it easily but more organized opponents (syndacates, cops, corp security, shadowrunners, etc.) will probably have the knowledge and the resources to counter magic or at least make as hard as possible to target them.
Also Mob Control has a DV of (F/2)+2 so (6S-2)*2=8, a magic attribute of 8 is something that rookies renners tend to lack (more likely a DV of 6P) and at the time runners reached that level of power the opposition is likely to be able to counter it. Than it could be that you are hired specificaly to cast that spell, GM can make (nearly) anything possible.
Karaden
QUOTE (AllTheNothing @ Nov 2 2008, 02:31 PM) *
Doesn't Mod Control have a radius of force meters and requires line of sight? It is a wonderfull spell but it should be limited to avoid abuse, street level opponent can fall prey of it easily but more organized opponents (syndacates, cops, corp security, shadowrunners, etc.) will probably have the knowledge and the resources to counter magic or at least make as hard as possible to target them.
Also Mob Control has a DV of (F/2)+2 so (6S-2)*2=8, a magic attribute of 8 is something that rookies renners tend to lack (more likely a DV of 6P) and at the time runners reached that level of power the opposition is likely to be able to counter it. Than it could be that you are hired specificaly to cast that spell, GM can make (nearly) anything possible.


I think your right about the radius and line of sight. But you have to remember that a couple meters radius is actually a fairly decent sized area. I'm not 100% sure if you need line of sight to the people affected by the 'AOE' or not, but you likely do, which means that the spell requires a bit of work, and you would perhaps want to go with the single target version.

As for the DV... your math makes no sense.. why are you looking at a magic attribute of 8? I could pull this off with an attribute of 4.

Force 4 spell, so (F/2)+2 = (4/2)+2=4s and requires a magic attribute of 4. With a magic attribute of 4 and a main attribute of say 5, that's 9 dice to resist drain, so 2 could be bought and 3 is a safe bet, so 1s damage to control the actions of your target and anyone within 4 meters of him (Which would give a total area of a circle 25ish feet across, which is easily enough to fit most rooms/offices/hallways/not warehouse/not outdoors.

Now if you kick that up to Mob Mind, everything stays the same but you take 2 extra s damage and you don't take penalties equal to willpower if you have the people attack their old allies. Really depends on how good your character is at taking drain. Either way I think the spell is quite useful, the mind version all the more so because it has plenty of non combative options.
WeaverMount
I would recommend Search. It's pretty broken actually. Seriously mean it doesn't have any drain, it's an extended test, and it can tell you basically anything you want to know about anything especially things like "Top X spells". Many people seem to think that Search is some kind of initiate power or something something but I promise every one can access it from day 1. It's in the upper right.
Tarantula
Your spells mostly suck.
Inc Ref can be nice, but don't rely on it.

Useful spells:
Levitate
Magic Fingers
Clairvoyance
Clairaudiance
Lightning Ball/Soundwave
Stunbolt
Imp Invis
Phys Mask
Influence
Mind Probe
Detect Enemies
Mana Window
Heal
Fashion
Glyph
I thought it was a decent list, except for armor (some protection vs. lighting you up like a Christmas tree and drawing fire from everyone). Analyze device is good, but not all that, because you only get the net hits as a bonus, and the defaulting penalty that you get to ignore is a big, whopping one dice. So casting it at Force: 5 and getting 5 hits, to use a computer, for example, you need 4 of those hits to beat its object resistance, so you get a bonus of 1 die, and ignore defaulting penalties. Congratulations, you have the equivalent of a skill of 1. Don't get me wrong, it's a versatile spell, when you really need to be able to work/drive/shut down something, but you're not "out-hacking the hacker", etc.
hobgoblin
QUOTE (Karaden @ Nov 2 2008, 06:31 PM) *
And of course if you want to go for quick kills, cast this with no allies caught, and give the group command "Place barrel of gun under chin, pull trigger." or something similar.


would that not trigger some kind of resistance test?
Karaden
I didn't see any rules of any kind about resistance test for doing suicidal actions. I could have overlooked such a thing though.
WeaverMount
Everything you said about analyze device is spot on, and often over looked. However you aren't using it to it's full effect. The best way to use it isn't to make the mage into a 2-bit hacker, it's to have the the mage cast it on the hacker and make them a legendary. The subject of a detection spell is person getting a new sense not the phenomenon being detected. Doing it that way also means that you can cast it high force or use edge for size able bonus and not worry about how to sustain it. The mage can just eat the -2 because someone else if making the roll.
Earlydawn
IMO:
Levitate - The uses are obvious, and endless.
Heal - Ditto.
Stunball - So good it's broken.
Lightning Bolt - Good indirect combat spell, with utility against drones, cameras, and some lower-quality maglocks.
Increase Reflexes - Even if you're going for more of a utility mage, this can be excellent in giving a non-combat focused character a fighting chance.
Fireball - Again, a solid combat spell with environmental utility. Can also be fun if your GM plays with relatively realistic morale rules for goons - having a bolt of fire tossed at your head tends to activate the lizard brain pretty quickly.
Armor - Nice to have, not only for use on PCs, but also as the equivalent of "throwing the kevlar" on the VIP during an extraction.
Detect Enemies - Information is power.
Improved Invisibility - 'Nuff said.
Light - Invaluable. The capability to move the light and (presumably) stick it to a location makes it an excellent replacement for a tactical light, or headlamp.

hobgoblin
QUOTE (Karaden @ Nov 3 2008, 01:16 AM) *
I didn't see any rules of any kind about resistance test for doing suicidal actions. I could have overlooked such a thing though.


it seems they have included one for mental manipulations in general (a extended willpower test each force turns, by using a complex action). and no special provision in the spell itself to trigger a test of the command leads to physical harm to self or someone one care about (older editions had that for similar rules).

funny enough, influence has such a entry in its description.

and nothing in the errata either, nasty...

still, if i was the gm, i would do it as a attack test modified by willpower as defined in the spells text.
Cthulhudreams
The best spells are the ones that cannot be replicated by a hacker/rigger or sammie.

So that stupid magic fingers spell is lame because a drone can do that, and fireball is the suck because you can just get a hand grenade.

However heal is all sorts of broken because it works instantly and stacks with first aid

Mana static is the one shot nut punch to any magical threat and is completely insane.

Fix is like heal for things that don't bleed

detect life is a completely ridiculous spell that may as well be called 'have a tri corder and call yourself spock'
hobgoblin
QUOTE (Cthulhudreams @ Nov 3 2008, 02:02 AM) *
However heal is all sorts of broken because it works instantly and stacks with first aid

do note the need to sustain it to permanent state. this means that if the mage is knocked out or killed before that time, said damage returns...
Karaden
QUOTE (hobgoblin @ Nov 2 2008, 07:41 PM) *
it seems they have included one for mental manipulations in general (a extended willpower test each force turns, by using a complex action). and no special provision in the spell itself to trigger a test of the command leads to physical harm to self or someone one care about (older editions had that for similar rules).

funny enough, influence has such a entry in its description.

and nothing in the errata either, nasty...

still, if i was the gm, i would do it as a attack test modified by willpower as defined in the spells text.


Well, I suppose it could still be a roll for it, but you'd have to keep in mind they'd get a free bypass on armor, no defense roll, and likely a free shot for increased DV (Gun pointed in mouth will have no armor to go through, the subject can't move out of the way to dodge, and the brain is generally considered fairly.. umm... important. To some people any way)

So yeah, assuming a willpower of 3, agility of 3, and skill of 3... well there is actually a decent chance they'd be able to miss.... is there perhaps a +1 to give it from point blank to give them the ability to buy 1 hit to insure they hit themselves?
hobgoblin
heh, i guess it could count as a aimed shot wink.gif
Karaden
QUOTE (Earlydawn @ Nov 2 2008, 07:32 PM) *
IMO:
Light - Invaluable. The capability to move the light and (presumably) stick it to a location makes it an excellent replacement for a tactical light, or headlamp.


I really can't see Light as being Invaluable. I mean heck some glow sticks or flash lights or a microdrone with a light bulb on it can all easily reproduce it.

As said fireball can be replicated by a grenade easily enough. If you really want fire, make it a Molotov or something similar.

Otherwise I'd say the spells you said are useful, but the stunball and lightning bolt aren't very... utility, though still handy to have around. Suppose it depends on if your going for utility or combat mage. Utility doesn't need to be able to replicate what your sammy can do (ie. combat).
Ravor
Remember that a good mage can kill you with her mind but a great mage has the wisdom to use her trusty predator instead.


Seriously though, burn two points of Essence and get your extra IPs from bioware, tricked out cybereyes, and a few other goodies.
Muspellsheimr
Increase Body is almost always better than Armor.

My list would be:
Stunbolt
Powerbolt
Increase Reflexes
Increase Attribute *
Heal
Fashion
Levitate
Mana Static

* I use a modified version: +1 Drain, affects any single mental/physical attribute, chosen when cast (Drain modifier is based on Street Magic spell design's -1 Drain: restricted effect. I simply reversed it.)

Other than that, there are quite a few nice & useful spells available, pick as you will based on character concept. The above are the ones I would suggest always taking.
pbangarth
Consider Spatial Sense.

Peter
Cthulhudreams
http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?show...amp;hl=phantasm

This thread is really good!
Earlydawn
QUOTE (Karaden @ Nov 2 2008, 08:36 PM) *
I really can't see Light as being Invaluable. I mean heck some glow sticks or flash lights or a microdrone with a light bulb on it can all easily reproduce it.

As said fireball can be replicated by a grenade easily enough. If you really want fire, make it a Molotov or something similar.

Otherwise I'd say the spells you said are useful, but the stunball and lightning bolt aren't very... utility, though still handy to have around. Suppose it depends on if your going for utility or combat mage. Utility doesn't need to be able to replicate what your sammy can do (ie. combat).
As a runner, it's a pretty easy to get in a situation where you're stripped of your gear (ambush at home, etc), and the ability to actually materialize that glowstick is pretty handy. That's more or less the theme with any mage ability that isn't a straight combat spell - you can replicate it with handy 2070 technology easily enough, and probably get a better result. The capability to generate that effect whenever you'd like without concerns for weight or situational availability is a whole different thing. wink.gif
Cthulhudreams
Sure, but you can only take 8 spells, and frankly

1. Heal
2. Detect Life
3. Physical Mask
4. Fix
5. Mana Static
6. Trid Phantasm
7. Control Thoughts
8. Shape Metal
9. Mind Probe
10. Turn to Goo
11. Improved Reflexes

Which four of those are you going to drop to get teh ability to summon a lightbulb. Heck, I could just do that with Trid Phantasm.
Drogos
Influence needs to be on that list because it wins. Same drain as a manabolt and it gets you anything in the short and long term. Need that uard to check something in the broom closet? Need to get an extra bit of nuyen from the Johnson? Need the paranoid corper your extracting to just shut the hell up but you don't want to hurt him? Need the Lone Star cop to let you off with a warning and not arrest your cybered buddy? All this and more can be yours for just 3 little BPs. The only drawback is the noticing spellcasting rules, but even at a low force you can make it stick. Obviously it isn't extremely useful when they have their own magical back up (and if you abuse it, your GM likely will increase the magical backup), but against the mundanes it can get you whatever you need.
hobgoblin
dont forget about that willpower test tho. if following the suggestion given can hurt the target somehow, they get to roll.

and hurt dont have to be only physical. but then thats moving into gm's fiat i guess...
Drogos
The 'hurt' ruling is fiat to begin with. The spell states they treat the suggestion as if they came up with it and thus carry it out. The roll is only if confronted with the wrongness. Technically, by RAW you could have the lone guard shoot himself in the head just as easily as if you had used Control Thoughts. Of course, I think that's a little extreme, but as long as there is no outside pressure pointing the wrongness of their action, then they treat it like it was their idea all along.
hobgoblin
ah, sorry, bad wording from my side. guess i should have taken the time to look at the spell text one more time rather then go by memory.
TheOOB
Lets see, a few of the spells I find most useful:

Heal(You can never have too many ways to heal damage, also take a stun version if your GM allows it)
Improved Invisibility(You can't fight everyone, and the person who gets surprise in combat usually wins)
Stunball(Cheap, powerful, and little worry about collateral damage)
Manabolt(Not only the most effective way to cause physical damage via sorcery, but also makes you a god in astral combat)
Levitate(Because who doesn't want to fly)
Lightning Bolt/Ball(Expensive, but knocking a few of your foes out for a couple rounds is all the advantage you need)
Influence(Much more versatile and hard to detect then other mind control spells)
Improved Reflexes(As long as you have a sustaining focus or spirit of man to cast it)
Trid Phantasm(Nothing gets your foes running away quicker then a few lone star cars driving by at just the right moment)
Sludge Gun/Armor(Instant combat advantage and huge intimidation tool)
Acid Stream(For those annoying physical objects you want to destroy.)

Obviously there is a lot of useful spells, and you can make up for some weaknesses with conjuring, but you should make sure your character can deal with most basic threats they might face(drones, spirits, groups of enemies, ect.)
Fortune
These spells pretty much always seem to end up on my characters' lists ...

Manabolt
Powerbolt
Slaughter Spirit
Heal
Healthy Glow
Oxygenate
Fashion
Fix
Influence
Levitate
Magic Fingers
Makeover

If I was to pick two more to add, I'd probably go for ...

Detect Life
Trid Phantasm
toturi
Stunball
Powerbolt
Ball Lightning
Heal
Increase Reflexes
Influence
Levitate
Mana Static
Thanee
Fashion and Makeover, because Style is everything. biggrin.gif

Bye
Thanee
AllTheNothing
QUOTE (Thanee @ Nov 4 2008, 09:38 AM) *
Fashion and Makeover, because Style is everything. biggrin.gif

Bye
Thanee



I agreed, they are wonderfull for blending in and to have the proper look; very usefull for faces and clubgoers.
Bobson
QUOTE (Earlydawn @ Nov 2 2008, 07:32 PM) *
IMO:
Levitate - The uses are obvious, and endless.
Heal - Ditto.
Stunball - So good it's broken.
Lightning Bolt - Good indirect combat spell, with utility against drones, cameras, and some lower-quality maglocks.
Increase Reflexes - Even if you're going for more of a utility mage, this can be excellent in giving a non-combat focused character a fighting chance.
Fireball - Again, a solid combat spell with environmental utility. Can also be fun if your GM plays with relatively realistic morale rules for goons - having a bolt of fire tossed at your head tends to activate the lizard brain pretty quickly.
Armor - Nice to have, not only for use on PCs, but also as the equivalent of "throwing the kevlar" on the VIP during an extraction.
Detect Enemies - Information is power.
Improved Invisibility - 'Nuff said.
Light - Invaluable. The capability to move the light and (presumably) stick it to a location makes it an excellent replacement for a tactical light, or headlamp.


This is almost exactly the list my mages always take. I usually take powerbolt instead of fireball, influence is a really good one you don't have on the list, and I've never tried Light, but otherwise every single spell on that list has saved one of my runs at one time or another.
Whipstitch
CthulhuDreams already posted most of the spells I use, since I follow the philosophy that as a Magician your job isn't to dominate physical combat (in fact, I often rely on drugs as my source of meatside Initiative enhancement and make heavy use of the Astral in other situations). After all, there's a very good chance your team will have a Samurai, Drone Rigger or Adept who can handle the bulk of raw damage dealing without risking Drain, facing Sustaining penalties or sinking karma into Combat Spells, which frankly, are one trick ponies almost by definition. Besides, even Physical Indirect spells aren't terribly good against drones, and depending on the job or GM, they could very well end up as the majority of your opposition, since they're relatively cheap, competent, naturally magic resistant and can be repaired by a decent mechanic. Besides, such grunt work is exactly why you should be packing a decent Summoning skill.

Instead, as a Magician, I concentrate on two areas: Magical Threats (Mana Static, Mana Spells) and Utility (Fix, Heal, Detection, Illusions, Mind Trickery). Basically, if you're a Magician, you should be able to rock people's socks off on the Astral. Unless they're really, REALLY high Force, your Magician should be able to fend off multiple Spirits through clever use of Astral Combat and the Mana Static spell. Remember that your Astral Combat and Counterspell pools are in no way limited by your Magic attribute; if you're in close quarters against multiple enemy Magicians or Spirits it's quite viable to spend some Edge on a Force 4 or 5 Mana Static to blunt their powers. At that point the fight is often a simple matter of telling the Samurai to lock 'n' load. I shouldn't have to explain why the utility stuff comes in handy.

Anyway, Stun/Mana Bolt/Ball aside, I don't take any combat oriented spells at chargen that can't perform double duty in another area. For example, kidnapping becomes a lot easier when you have a few of the Control line of spells or can use Turn To Goo and scrape the guy into a sack for your trip out of the building.
Muspellsheimr
I thought I would expand on the why of my suggested list.

Stunbolt & Powerbolt
I have always found the need for single-target precision far more often than area effect destruction. For this reason, the Bolt spells are always higher in priority for me than the Ball spells. With these two, Manabolt is largely redundant - vs. spirits, you receive the same result with Stunbolt with less Drain. In regards to everyone else, Powerbolt is higher Drain, but achieves the same result & can be used against non-living objects. With a reasonable spellcasting pool of 12 (5 Magic + 5 Spellcasting + 2 Focus), it is just as good, & often better at removing threats from drones than Indirect spells.

Unless I am playing a combat-specialist magician, these will be the only two Combat spells I take. Stunball & Powerball, while useful, are only taken once I have every other spell I desire.


Increase Reflexes
While there are other ways of achieving the same effect, I am strongly of the opinion that Increased Reflexes combined with a Sustaining Focus is the best form of initiative enhancement a magician can obtain - combined with the obvious importance of having multiple passes, that makes this spell a must-have.


Increase Attribute
Increase Attribute is a variant of the Increase [Attribute] spells. Following the spell design rules in Street Magic, you can reduce the Drain of a spell by 1 if you restrict it's target or effect. I simply reversed this process - by increasing the Drain by 1, Increase Attribute can affect any single attribute, selected when cast (opposed to when learned). Like all restricted effect spells, it is well worth the Drain increase to pay off the increased versatility. Because Increase [Attribute] technically does not have the restricted effect modifier applied, this cannot by a strict reading of RAW be done, but seems quite reasonable to me given other spell examples.

That being said, Increase Attribute has a variety of benefits. Using it to increase your Body is almost always superior to the Armor spell. You can use it to increase Agility for a combat boost, Reaction for a defensive boost, or your Drain attributes for higher-level casting. This all comes at the standard Sustaining penalty of course, but is usually worth it.


Heal
Effectively instant healing, this can easily be the difference between life & death in a combat situation. Because it can stack with First Aid, it is not made redundant by mundane means, & has much faster application than said mundane means. It is limited by not being able to heal Drain damage (something First Aid can do), but would be broken beyond belief if that was allowed, making it a reasonable limitation. Another limitation is being unable to heal Stun damage - this, I do not understand why, from a balance or logic standpoint (Stun & Physical damage are both tissue damage, just varying degrees). I suggest trying to get your GM to house-rule it so it can, or, failing that, try to get it allowed for a +1 Drain modifier.


Mana Static
Capable of instantly "destroying" low-Force spirits, weakening the high-Force ones to a level your samurais can handle, & shutting down the enemy magician, there is no reason other than character concept to ever avoid this spell.


Levitate
A powerful utility spell, this can also be used for indirect offense. No longer are you stuck because you cannot reach the exit. Further, use it for heavy lifting. In a tight situation, your heavy lifting turns into projectile weapons. The uses for this spell are nearly endless.


Fashion
While I usually select this spell as an ascetic choice, it's practical applications are immense (especially with a Face). It can be used as an instant partial disguise (in a similar manner to Makeover), but more importantly, it tailors clothing & armor. While there are no rules listed for how to customize armor for the Body x 3 encumbrance, such is reasonable with 4+ hits from this spell (GM descression).



To sum it up, these are the spells I suggest every magician taking. The remaining two for a top-ten list depend on the character concept. Top contenders include Influence, Lightning Bolt/Ball, Fix, Detect Life, Magic Fingers, Improved Invisibility (Multi-Sense), & Mana Window.
Bobson
QUOTE (Muspellsheimr @ Nov 5 2008, 04:08 PM) *
Stunbolt & Powerbolt
I have always found the need for single-target precision far more often than area effect destruction. For this reason, the Bolt spells are always higher in priority for me than the Ball spells. With these two, Manabolt is largely redundant - vs. spirits, you receive the same result with Stunbolt with less Drain. In regards to everyone else, Powerbolt is higher Drain, but achieves the same result & can be used against non-living objects. With a reasonable spellcasting pool of 12 (5 Magic + 5 Spellcasting + 2 Focus), it is just as good, & often better at removing threats from drones than Indirect spells.

Unless I am playing a combat-specialist magician, these will be the only two Combat spells I take. Stunball & Powerball, while useful, are only taken once I have every other spell I desire.


I agree entirely about Powerbolt, but I usually take Stunball just to have an area attack spell. If you inadvertently catch a few bystanders (or even a teammate in an emergency) in a stunball, it's not all that big a deal, whereas if you're powerballing them, things can get ugly.
Fortune
When you need to hit more than one target, Multi-casting several Stunbolts is not all that difficult.
pbangarth
Doesn't anybody talk to things they meet on a run??

How about Translate, so you can talk/con/negotiate with anybody on Earth, spirits, AIs. weird things 'out there'? It'll even work on the Astral/Metaplanes.

Peter
TheOOB
QUOTE (Fortune @ Nov 5 2008, 06:46 PM) *
When you need to hit more than one target, Multi-casting several Stunbolts is not all that difficult.


Splitting the dice pool and increasing the drain? Thats pretty nasty, especially when you need those net hits to deal damage.

If you are only going to take 1 area spell, you might want to make it elemental so it can hit targets you can't see.
Muspellsheimr
When you have a focus &/or mentor spirit bonus, splitting your pool is not that big of a deal, as long as it is only 2 or 3 ways.

The Drain increase is also minor to a Stunbolt at that level as well - F/2 + 1 for a 3-way split. Granted, you must resist it 3 times, but not difficult unless you are overcasting.
Hocus Pocus
da best spell is the one that gets ya all the babes. eg. Hocus Pocus "spell which makes you sexy hot stud like the awesomly urbane legendary powerful magic user himself Hocus Pocus, guranteed to make you irrestible to women!" chip truth.
Fortune
QUOTE (TheOOB @ Nov 6 2008, 11:00 AM) *
Splitting the dice pool and increasing the drain? Thats pretty nasty, especially when you need those net hits to deal damage.


You'd be surprised. Drain for Stunbolt is negligible, even when increased slightly. And keep in mind that the Dice Pool that is actually split consists only of Magic + Spellcasting. Everything else - Mentor Spirits, Foci, Specialization, Spiritual Assistance - all gets added to the Pool(s) after the split occurs.

I have had extremely good results using this technique with a variety of different spells.
Thadeus Bearpaw
QUOTE (Cthulhudreams @ Nov 2 2008, 07:02 PM) *
detect life is a completely ridiculous spell that may as well be called 'have a tri corder and call yourself spock'


I lolled rotfl.gif

Also I agree, if another player can do it with their ares alpha or their drone than what's the point. Heal, and Fix are good. Turn to goo has been a personal favorite for my players. When the group mage stole a Corptech and tried to intimidate him by taking one of his stolen buddies, turning him into goo and than putting him in a number of emptied out beer bottles; which than finally went into the freezer. Well that guy spilled his guts like a recently spliced fish.
AllTheNothing
QUOTE (Muspellsheimr @ Nov 5 2008, 10:08 PM) *
Heal
Effectively instant healing, this can easily be the difference between life & death in a combat situation. Because it can stack with First Aid, it is not made redundant by mundane means, & has much faster application than said mundane means. It is limited by not being able to heal Drain damage (something First Aid can do), but would be broken beyond belief if that was allowed, making it a reasonable limitation. Another limitation is being unable to heal Stun damage - this, I do not understand why, from a balance or logic standpoint (Stun & Physical damage are both tissue damage, just varying degrees). I suggest trying to get your GM to house-rule it so it can, or, failing that, try to get it allowed for a +1 Drain modifier.


I'm noto too sure about it but I think in the First Aid skill description is stated otherwise.

QUOTE (Muspellsheimr @ Nov 5 2008, 10:08 PM) *
Mana Static
Capable of instantly "destroying" low-Force spirits, weakening the high-Force ones to a level your samurais can handle, & shutting down the enemy magician, there is no reason other than character concept to ever avoid this spell.


Yes but remember that it affects you as well.

QUOTE (Muspellsheimr @ Nov 5 2008, 10:08 PM) *
Fashion
While I usually select this spell as an ascetic choice, it's practical applications are immense (especially with a Face). It can be used as an instant partial disguise (in a similar manner to Makeover), but more importantly, it tailors clothing & armor. While there are no rules listed for how to customize armor for the Body x 3 encumbrance, such is reasonable with 4+ hits from this spell (GM descression).


I could dare to suggest that fashion could be used to turn flats in chic clothes for profit? (I think churning out très chic wouldn't be advisable, if you start selling clothes that normaly have a commercial value above 50'000 nuyen.gif you are going to attract too much attenction)
Anyway Muspellsheimr the idea of using fashion spell to add custom-tailored to armor is wonderfull.

QUOTE (Muspellsheimr @ Nov 5 2008, 10:08 PM) *
To sum it up, these are the spells I suggest every magician taking. The remaining two for a top-ten list depend on the character concept. Top contenders include Influence, Lightning Bolt/Ball, Fix, Detect Life, Magic Fingers, Improved Invisibility (Multi-Sense), & Mana Window.


Yeah gotta love fix, just think how many money sammy can save on cyberware manteinance.
AllTheNothing
QUOTE (Thadeus Bearpaw @ Nov 6 2008, 12:15 PM) *
I lolled rotfl.gif

Also I agree, if another player can do it with their ares alpha or their drone than what's the point. Heal, and Fix are good. Turn to goo has been a personal favorite for my players. When the group mage stole a Corptech and tried to intimidate him by taking one of his stolen buddies, turning him into goo and than putting him in a number of emptied out beer bottles; which than finally went into the freezer. Well that guy spilled his guts like a recently spliced fish.



Turn to Goo description states that damage infliced to the goo translates to the subject of the spell, wouldn't that trip in the freezer kill the subject due frostbite?
Tarantula
QUOTE (AllTheNothing @ Nov 6 2008, 08:55 AM) *
I'm noto too sure about it but I think in the First Aid skill description is stated otherwise.

Sorry, it does stack, but only if you do first aid first.


QUOTE (AllTheNothing @ Nov 6 2008, 08:55 AM) *
Yes but remember that it affects you as well.

Only if you're in the area of effect. And since you get to choose where that area is, chances are, no problem.


QUOTE (AllTheNothing @ Nov 6 2008, 08:55 AM) *
I could dare to suggest that fashion could be used to turn flats in chic clothes for profit? (I think churning out très chic wouldn't be advisable, if you start selling clothes that normaly have a commercial value above 50'000 nuyen.gif you are going to attract too much attenction)
Anyway Muspellsheimr the idea of using fashion spell to add custom-tailored to armor is wonderfull.

I'd say no on this. As fashion says, it doesn't change the protectiveness, just cut, color, pattern and fit. So that also means it can't change the material. Your flats might look like they are a custom tailored armani suit, but they still feel like flats.


QUOTE (AllTheNothing @ Nov 6 2008, 08:55 AM) *
Yeah gotta love fix, just think how many money sammy can save on cyberware manteinance.

Except with that whole, paid for with essence = part of him, and fix can only do non-living materials. In addition, it can only fix stuff weighing less than force x hits in KGs. So, force 6 with 6 hits is 36kgs, or almost 80 lbs.
pbangarth
QUOTE (Tarantula @ Nov 6 2008, 09:09 AM) *
I'd say no on this. As fashion says, it doesn't change the protectiveness, just cut, color, pattern and fit. So that also means it can't change the material. Your flats might look like they are a custom tailored armani suit, but they still feel like flats.


Cut and fit will go a long way to changing the feel. Imagine that 50lb. weight in your backpack, and then imagine it distributed as efficiently as possible all over you body. Will it still feel the same? No way. Will it feel like that little red dress you wear in the privacy of your own home when no-one else is ..... er... ahem.... well, will it feel like an expensive suit? No.

Peter
Tarantula
By feel I meant the texture of the material. Not the way it its weight and such is distributed.
pbangarth
Yes, we're on the same page then.

Peter
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