QUOTE (Muspellsheimr @ Mar 14 2009, 01:50 PM)
Back to the original topic(ish).
I support delaying the print run & using the PDF release as a Beta test.
The changes I feel need addressing, &
my suggested alterations in Spoilers.
Note: I still have not obtained the PDF, & am basing this on what I have seen posted on these forums.1) Attribute Advancement Costs
[ Spoiler ]
A change was needed, but the one used is incomplete. While entirely acceptable for Human characters, it seriously hinders metatypes.
My suggested change, taken from my personal Karma Generation Rules:
Step 3: Purchase Attributes
Next, purchase the characters attributes (including special attributes). Characters begin with the minimum attribute ratings defined by their race/metatype (including Templates). Before determining the advancement cost of an attribute, apply the inverse of any racial modifiers. To determine a racial modifier to an attribute, calculate the difference between the races maximum & 6 (an Elf has 8 maximum Charisma, the racial modifier is +2; a Dwarf has 5 maximum Reaction, the racial modifier is -1). The cost of increasing an Attribute is New Rating x 5 Karma.
Example: John wishes to increase his Trolls Body from 5 to 6. Because a Troll has +4 Body, the cost is (6-4) x 5, or 10 Karma.
Example: John then decides to increase his Trolls Charisma from 1 to 2. A Troll has -2 Charisma, so the cost is (2+2) x 5, or 20 Karma.
2) Direct Combat Spells
[ Spoiler ]
Again, a change was needed, but this time it was not incomplete, but entirely in the wrong direction. Instead of introducing another sub-system to reduce their effectiveness, remove a sub-system, streamlining them with everything else. Allow a Defense Test and a Resistance Test against Direct Combat spells.
3) Limits on Hardware/Software Ratings
[ Spoiler ]
This change was entirely unnecessary. If you feel there is an issue with cost-discrepancies between buying something, & creating it yourself with the upgrade rules, simply adjust the Nuyen cost of one or both sides to better conform.
This has been the first real educated and well planned response to this errata and I thank you Muspellsheimer for presenting this in a polite and ordered fashion instead of whining like a teenager while pointing fingers and calling names. While I like most of the changes, and in fact am not posting here to support the petition, I would like to bring attention to some of the good points you bring up.
<Attribute Advancement Increased Cost>
While I agree with the increased cost of improvement from 3 karma x new rating going to 5 karma x new rating (I think attributes should take longer to increase), he brings up a good point about attribute advancement through karma and how it negatively affects metatype bonuses (most namely body and strength of Trolls, Orks and Dwarves). This was one of those factors that kind of bothered me in the original SR4. Metahumans already had to pay BP to earn their attribute bonuses and then when trying to improve said attributes later they still got the shaft. It was the same problem, but it's just more noticable now. I do like your suggestion in that when improving attributes, one should take into consideration what the lowest possible attribute is for that metatype...
As far as the arguments using Karma Gen as a reason? Karma gen is another possible system, but BP is still the games standard generator. If you're already using Karma gen, you are already tweaking your game. Just tweak it further.
<Direct Combat Spells>
I personally like the addition of net hits upping the drain value by 1 per net hit. Net hits actually up the value of the spell higher than the force, and therefore by "cooking your spell" the caster "cooks his transmitter (his body)" a bit as well. It's a bit more of a flavor rule that I think adds to the gameplay and logic of increased damage.
However, this doesn't change some of the problems that I've encountered with direct combat spells. Number one; there is no damage resistance roll. This is the major complaint I hear out of my players when dealing with these spells. They get their defense roll and they either get no damage and successfully will it out of existence, or they get the full effects of the spell PLUS whatever extra the caster dumps into the spell with net hits. A damage soak roll would be a WONDERFUL addition (using something like astral combat's damage resistance (willpower + astral/mystic armor).
Second problem that's not fixed is the abuse of overcasting. I have magicians casting ridiculously high stunbolts and resisting the physical drain with no problems. A powerful (and logical) nerf would be to increase the drain by +1 per each level of force over the highest regular spell a magician could cast instead of the normal +1 per 2 levles. I probably didn't make that clear, so here's an example:
Joe Mage is magic 6 and casts his F6 stunbolt for 2 drain. As soon as he overcasts at F12, his drain is still only 5 and he statistically might only take 2-3 of those physical wounds. The increase in damage though is disproportional to the amount of danger that should be associated with overcasting (especially a monster like a F12 spell, that's a fraggin' instant kill spell most of the time.)
I'd like overcast spells to carry a +1 drain per level over the magic limited normal force. So, we have Joe Mage again at his magic 6 and he casts his F8 stunbolt. It's now 3 drain for the Force, and a +2 drain for being over his normal force limit. And, since he's overcasting, it's going to be physical damage. It's a huge nerf, but it prevents the biggest abuse of spellcasting that i've seen...