Yes, I think that is what they are implying. And i don't get the usefulness either. I can't think of the last time a mage cast a spell so the area of effect would have hit himself.

I have heard suggestions of mages having AR black out their friends, so the area of effect spells don't get them either. It does actually seem to follow the rules...

I've never played in a game where someone tried that trick, it just seems too cheesy.

Yeah, I've never played with someone who tried that. I'd expect an anvil to drop on my head moments after trying it.

Typicaly it is not an issue because the mage can be in front of everyone. If the mage is in the back and casting a force 5 spell on someone 3 meters away to his streetsam buddy guess what.. He is hitting his buddy also. Yes, you can call spell defense on the streetsam. You don't target yourself if you are in the AOE range because the rules say you don't because you can't see you. Or atleast not all of yourself, maybe just an arm or hand. (One would assume that it would mean during combat... You can cast invisibility on yourself because you are actively looking at yourself to cast.)


I don't remember SR2 rules for the most part but SR3 and SR4 have never had that rule. I would like to say it was never in SR2 but I don't remember.



The mirrors work because the casting mage (I would think) sees alot more of himself (ie: his refection) than just a hand or arm and it would work in a hallway like setting because casting at force 5+ you are aproching 18+ feet of distance. That is the typical fight range in close quarters fighting in SR.

It is the same amount of cheese that sam's have for shooting around a corner with just the gun sticking out if they have a smartlink and smartgun. Using mirrors that is.
The AR overlay is borderline breaking the rules... unless the casting mage is using cybereyes the AR overlay could be ruled as using electronic vision enhancement so they can't cast through it. If they are using cybereyes there is already a system in the game for smartguns to not shoot friends. I do not remember what it is called but IIRC it creates a 2 meter wide "no shoot" zone around someone brodcasting the correct IFF signal. So the GM could rule that the AR blackout is 2 meters wide also which could protect some enemies within close proximity of the mages friends.

I have no problems with street samurai shooting around a corner with a gun as this is what is becoming of real life weapons. That said is if the players do it so can their opponents. Also how is shooting with a gun around a corner any different than having a drone do it? Grenades and other weapons including magic could still hit the character. It is definitely not an I win scenario.

As for the AR goggle trick I would be very wary as a mage. At the point where the groups hacker can blank out friends I would allow a spider to hack his eyes and change the entire perspective. I admit it is a nasty trick, but even nastier if the hacker had the mage only capable of targetting his shadowrun team as the enemy.

I have no problem with people firing around corners using smartlinks. I just add some penalties for an awkward firing positon and let them do it. To be honest, if our adept can find some way to even things out with the LMG-carrying troll (who definitely wont be holding the LMG round the corner), then good for him.

The AR-friend obscuring trick with cybereyes is a clever one and works by fluff and by rules. You just can't balance it gamewise. I would probably rule that auras are a mystical thing and some software overlaying a block of black colour to the purely physical component of your sight, does nothing to obscure the tracery of aura the magician perceives and uses to target with.

Anyway, as pointed out, the magician must be aware of his own aura. If not, a magician can't cast a spell on himself in the dark. I don't like the conclusion, so I discard the premise.

K.

Back in SR3, there were mages doing something similar with a piece of paper. The FAQ said it didn't work.

Can you cast a spell through AR? Your vision goes through the image link. Might be enough to break the mystic link.

Holding a LMG around the corner probably wouldn't work, but curved barrels ,have been around since World War II and make it fairly easy to aim around corners, as demonstrated in this video.

Nah, it's a transparent screen with stuff on it.

If it blocks your vision, AR impedes spellcasting. This would apply to being spammed, possibly. If you're not seeing something entirely with natural vision, you can't cast either. Thus, you couldn't use vision enhancement to spot someone and then blast em, because you didn't perceive them with natural vision. You have to turn vision enhancement off and spot them with your natural eyes. Unless your vision enhancement is implanted, of course.

Well... It only blocks vision if it is electronic based. You can cast through a pair of optical binoculars but not through night vision goggles because a computer is creating an image for your eyes to see. You could not cast through binoculars that have a CCD in them because, again, the image is being run through a computer. You can cast through mage sight goggles because it is totally optically based. The image is "collected" on to a fiber optic line by a lens and then "expanded" again by another lens onto the person’s eyes. You can use cyberware because it becomes part of you when you take the essence hit.

Although I don't recall it specifically written in the book that a mage can’t use AR while trying to cast, it does say that a mage cannot use glasses with lowlight or thermal and those are AR based. Well... for contacts and glasses at least. That is why I said it could be interpreted as such. The rules are a bit unclear with it but it does have some extra support with the devs stating that they wanted a larger magic vs. tech gap.




Larme, was just trying to give some examples and rule interpretations using your post. It is not meant to be hostile to you.

He's right that you can't use non-implanted vision enhancements to target a spell with, but you can still wear glasses with AR and target spells. There's nothing in the rules that says using AR prevents you from casting spells. You'll still suffer vision modifiers, but that's hardly a big limitation. Also, you can always peer over the top of the AR glasses to target a spell.

Right, I wasn't trying to say that AR prevented casting automatically. Just if you couldn't see because you were spammed to death by ads or something

That is true. However, the post was originally talking about using an AR overlay to block LOS to a mages friends so a mage can cast into melee without harming his friends. The debate is whether or not you could do that. There is evidence in the rules that say you can't but the rules don't come right out and say no. So it is now in the realm of rules interpretation.... or not... RAW does not say you can't so you can... But that is a discussion I am not going to get into except to say do whatever is best for your game.

I would rule if a clear line of vision can be made from the character to his target and under normal circumstances he could see said target then it is fair game. AR would not do enough to block or alter combat LOS, however someone hacking your cybereyes would affect you just like an invisibility spell. It would just have to be integral to your person and how they affect it.

Even if you could, you still couldn't. Changing your AR display to block out particular parts of vision would take an Edit action. You'd need to roll at least a few hits on that to be successful. But then you'd need a complex action to cast your spell, which you couldn't do until next pass. And then the battle scene has changed and there are badguys you can't see, friends you can see... An Agent couldn't do it for you either, they're not sentient, they'd have trouble doing a good job of deciding who's a friend or foe. You could have a hacker friend do it, but it's still a lot of trouble for something that's basically exploiting the rules in the first place. Nobody could really do that and feel like they were playing Shadowrun, it would feel a lot more like manipulating the rules to win at all costs. RPGs simply do not tolerate WAAC play, they don't hold together if that's someone's goal and the GM doesn't stop it. Which is why even if it technically works under the rules, any GM would be justified to shut you down like a Midwest Chrysler dealership

Check out the Negator ARE software from Unwired. It does exactly what you're claiming is impossible. The software specifically exists to do real time video editing to digitally remove things or people that you don't want to see.

Ok, well obviously if you had some program that did it for you, then fine I haven't scoured every inch of Unwired, I was just speaking from the perspective of the basic rules more or less. But regardless, it doesn't change the WAAC nature of what you'd be doing, it doesn't change the fact that WAAC destroys every RPG, except those with insanely rigid and shatter-resistant structures like D&D 4.

I'll agree that it's cheesy as hell, and I'd actively discourage using Negator software to block out your own teammates so that you didn't hit them with area effect direct combat spells. Then again, the only magically active character I've played in years is more of a conjurer, making the point moot for me.

I'm just glad the wording in SR4A means that something like implanted ultrasound or RADAR can't be used to target spells. Being able to stunball people through a wall would be preposterous.

However, I would disagree with the assertion that the "Win at all costs" approach doesn't shatter 4e D&D, but that's way, way, way off topic.

May as well cast Trid Phantasm on your friends if you're going that route; or if you have a second mage in your party, have him do it.