QUOTE (Shinobi Killfist @ Feb 21 2010, 09:07 AM)

Um what is the tradeoff? It sounds like non-hermetics get smarter spirits, and get to roleplay with them. Hermetics get boned and boned. In 1-3e hermetic spirits being mindless kind of worked because you could argue the differences in how they were summoned and types of spirits made the dumb spirit a balancing tool. In 4e, they get basically the same spirits, they summon them the same way but they just get boned because there spirits are just flat out mindless, dumb constructs with a logic, intuition, and willpower of force. If you could abuse the mindless, dumb hermetic spirit then it might be a tradeoff. If you can't there isn't a tradeoff you just get the penalty spirit and didn't get any points for it.
It also doesn't make sense on a logical level to me. Are they mindless and won't see abuse when it happens, or are they smart enough to know when they are abused and therefore should not auto-bone the hermetic by following orders in a poor overly literal fashion.
Poor wording on my part. Elementals are
not dumb like watchers. But they act, and are treated, like servitor creatures who are ordered about. They are less likely to point out that something they are ordered to do is dumb, or to go out of their way to be helpful. But they are also less likely to sass their conjurer, or interpret their orders maliciously if they are offended. Now, they aren't completely devoid of personality, especially the higher-Force ones, but overall, they are servants rather than the "minions of the gods" or "revered spirits of our ancestors".
Personally, I like hermetics way
better. I would rather summon a fire elemental and say "Burn down this door", than to be all "Oh mighty spirit of the woodlands, please aid me in this endeavor, and I will plant three saplings in the downtown park."