Going through the threads I see a series of errors that would be best laid out for all to see in plain english so that others perhaps interested in getting into the gaming industry hopefully will learn from them and not repeat them.

Business mistake #1: Small-business partnerships (shareholders with any say, whatever). Big no-no because as shown here you almost always end up with someone wanting to keep the business on line for a reasonable and steady advance and someone else deciding that since they invested in this damn thing, it's about time it paid them back with a damn Porsche. Happens all the damn time, nearly every damn time, and don't let the next damn time be yourself.

Business mistake #2: Not paying your taxes (royalties, whatever). This is the #2 reason for businesses to go down the tubes. Every single sale has taxes or other financial obligations of some sort attached to it and you need (Need! NEED!) to keep track of them and maintain financial reserves to pay for them when they are due. Period. FULL STOP. The last thing you need is Mr. Gov'ment and/or Financial Lawyer shoving his 12" triple-dong up your fiscal rectum sans lube and slamming you between himself and a bed of salt-encrusted butcher knives (a realio-dealio, actually-stated quote I got from someone who didn't follow this rule as a descriptor for his "situation" before he closed up shop, got a divorce, etc. as his life proceeded to fall apart).

Business mistake #3: Not keeping up your books (or just not keeping any books). This is the third most common reason for a business to go down because it directly (as in, do not pass "Go" and do not collect $200) leads to the perception of #1 and #2 even if it doesn't actually exist. You need to keep a daily (yes, daily) account of what is going on in addition to a daily update to a longer-term books system. You need to count your tills every day. You need to write down what you sold, bought, etc by a reasonable category list every day. And you better damn do it every damn day or you will get a clusterf&%k going of truly epic size like the one being discussed here where the lack of information will make you: A) probably criminally negligent, B) seen as directly screwing this section up so you can steal from the company and try to hide it, and C) making it all but impossible to use your own records to help your defense when the follow-up tort(s) is tossed at your head wrapped around a brick. Oh, they might not be able to prove a criminal case and put you in prison, but the endless legal fees and basic long-term BS of a civil suit will almost certainly make you wish you were Bubba's "cuddle buddy" instead.

Take this entire discussion as a lesson of not to do things, and you'll be in pretty good stead as you give it a whirl yourself.

Has Coleman reached out to the fans yet? I haven't seen any public releases by him, nor have I seen anything posted by him. But these threads move so fast that I might have missed something.

This makes a lot of sense. Sometimes it's better to just focus on one thing and do it very well.

Look, guys,it's pretty clear that getting the license is more than handing over a bunch of cash and saying "See you in five years!" Topps is supposed to collect ongoing royalties, at the very minimum. A competing company who doesn't have the cash reserves could say: "Hey, we don't have as much up front, but we're willing to offer you a higher percentage in royalties. And since we don't have Catalyst's bad reputation, legal problems, and boycott threats, you'll make more that way." That could work as well.

If I were putting forward a bid, I'd prolly be as quiet as possible about it too. Just sayin'.

My 2 cents

I think Catalyst will keep the license, unless some other company is going after it, even though I dont want Catalyst to retain it.

Nope. He has been largely silent so far as I know.

Yeah, and I guess this is why I shouldn't go for brief. That's probably a better summary of my point. The care is directed at the property and potential revenue, not so much the people.

I absolutely would love to get some comment from more BT freelancers, even though that really isn't going to happen. Because between the recent fire sale of PDFs that seems to be happening over on Battlecorps and the little "scheduling slip" that advanced a TRO (typically one of the best selling types of BT books) forward quite a bit in the production schedule (so much so that books which detail those years will come much later, if ever), it really paints an ugly picture.

I don't really know anything about BattleTech. What's a TRO? Sorry if that's a silly question.

K.

Technical Readout, the kind of source books which basically consist of nothing but lots and lots of new mechs, vehicles and so on

In short, a toy catalog. The Battletech kids just play with bigger toys, is all.

You can't forget to mention the 25th Anniversary Box Set. Much like our 20th Anniversary Edition, it looks like it will be a year late. At least there was no way to preorder the 25th. Though bough my boys saved money for it over a year, which is impressive for ages 4 and 6. They just want more plastic minis.
I see the XTRO PDFs (X for Experimental) as being like 10 Jackpoints. That statement may play into your angle further.

BlueMax

at this point, if i were in Loren L Coleman's shoes, i would probably want to find myself a nice big rock, crawl underneath it, and firmly attach the edges of said rock to the ground (ideally bedrock) rather than face the fans.

i mean, really, what's he gonna say? "Sorry I took several hundred thousand dollars of money, drove away several major contributors to the Shadowrun setting, and made a lot of people's lives suck. But it was totally accidental! kthxbai."

yeah. that'll go over well.

now granted, this isn't to say that it wouldn't be right* for him to do so. but i really just can't say that i see him as having the moral integrity to actually show up and do that.

* (by which i mean, right as in the right, or just, thing to do... not necessarily the thing to do which will result in the best outcome from his perspective)

nice to know, that someone takes the situation serious... or not!

At this point his lawyer probably has told him not to do anything, say anything or even use the bathroom with out first getting permission from the lawyer. You're not going to see anything from him vocalized because anything he says at this point can be later used to confirm guilt or be construed as trying to dodge guilt.

I don't like the guy, but not saying anything is about the smartest thing he can do right at this second.

Besides, what does he have to apologise to the fans for?

The morally right thing to do would be to apologise to the antagonised authors and the staff of CGL who quit, and all the people CGL owed money. Adam, Bull, and all the others who have struggled to maintain this whole matter on a reasonable level. And of course, the entire BT crew who have suffered just asmuch as the SR crew. And to Jason Hardy, who has been taking the shit in his place.

But the fans? Why? Did he not pay you or steal your books or whatever?

I'm going to do something that I really didn't anticipate doing, and that's stand up for Randall Bills: Randall works like a machine for Catalyst, and if anyone deserves some time off, it's him. It may not be the best time for a vacation, but he's earned it many times over.

This was always the impression I got of randall, and why this news has troubled me so much. He always seemed to have the game and fans best interest at heart, such as with the whole Mechwarrior thing and the Reseen. How he has been portrayed in the last few weeks doesn't mesh, and I don't know which is true. I hope it is a case of trying to do what he thinks is best for the company, and for his friends... perhaps blindly.

I didnt appreciate Frank mocking Randall Bills for his beliefs, that was uncalled for, forgiveness is something that is very difficult for us humans to do. Coleman was a friend and maybe Coleman was sorry for what he did and is trying to make things right. Plus, what if Coleman is the only FACE guy at Catalyst, the one that deals with all the people and deals. If everyone else are the creative side, getting rid of the only one who knows what he doing isnt the smartest thing to do at chrunch time. Maybe they will get rid of Coleman after the contract is renewed.

Even though I hope they dont keep it. I just cant condone a company that doesnt pay its people (especially the people that create the story for and products for Shadowrun.)

they were right, the SR4 le edition street date of may 3 was wrong...

I got mine april 29 and its available in Montreal.

http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/5962/20...29202828421.jpg

Other have mentioned this before, but it generally seems to go unnoticed. Once the apparently main cause of CGL's cash flow issues became known, Randall Bills had his hands tied (at least in the short term).

Even if Randall Bills thinks that Loren L. Coleman is the worst person ever, and even if he wants him gone from the company last year—Coleman is the majority owner, he cannot just be fired, or removed from his position of ownership. Any action that Coleman does not agree to starts an ownership fight guaranteed to end the company.

The only play Bills really had is the one he has taken. Keep moving forward to get the Shadowrun & Battletech license renewed. That means finding the money to pay Topps first. Making other payments right now that return investment very quickly (like paying for withheld copyrights on books that can be immediately sold) happen, while other payments continue to be lagging.

If CGL keeps the licenses, and they get proper financial oversight, they will continue to produce both games, and most of their customers will never know any of this happened. If CGL loses the licenses, the licenses could end up in better hands or worse hands (we just don't know), but CGL is done, and no-one gets paid unless they get the money from Coleman in court.

I can roll with that. I can roll with RNB on vacation. Heck Obama took a vacation to Hawaii not very long before the election and that worked out pretty well for him.

Here's what I can't roll with: 1) RNB claiming religion as the reason for his actions. 2) RNB leaving JMH to bear all of the criticism (and by that I mean bile, hate & venom) that's been directed at CGL/IMR.

1) Claiming religion as a reason for your actions is inherently unethical. Religion is deeply personal. The Holy Texts are interpreted by each of the faithful in a different way. For one person to claim that their actions, that lead others to harm (i.e. single mothers not being paid and/or being paid late for work provided) is to claim that their interpretation of the religion is superior to others' interpretation. I have more to say on the subject, but I'm flirting with the ToS as it is. (Dear moderators: I was very generic.) In short, I don't believe it is okay to claim religion as a cause for supporting a course of action, nor do I believe it is okay for any one else to criticize that religion or that individual's interpretation of his/her religion.

2) You can delegate responsibility, but you can never delegate authority. Yes, powerful people have PR departments, press secretaries and the like. When bad things happen, the buck has to stop at the top. I view it as cowardice to send someone else to get beat up for you. JMH should use the last month and a half for his thesis for his Master of Arts in Public Relations with a concentration in Web-based technology. But, he shouldn't have to. When I screw up, I take the blame. When my employees screw up, I take the blame. When my vendors screw up, I take the blame. Ultimately it's about responsibility. I haven't seen that from the management team. Not yet anyway. And as smarter people than I have pointed out, not beyond emergency measures.

Anyone can do the right thing when they have no other choice. (Withheld copyright, licensor audit, creditors pursuing involuntary chapter 7.) Integrity is doing the right thing when no one is looking. Here's the kicker: they may be doing just that. We don't know. Most of the news has been negative, but JMH has a good point: we really don't know what's going on internally to the management team. He (JMH) might not know. But, if CGL/IMR is interested in winning back the disgruntled portion of the fan base, an open approach would go along way. As AJ pointed out: It's easier.

Dude. Coleman is an owner. You can't just fire him. He never would have been able to leech money so long and so casually from the company if he was just an employee. You can separate him from the running of the company, which would have been logical, but Bills claimed that his faith instructed him not just to forgive, but to ignore good business practice.

But I pose a question to Randall Bills: Which is the lesser sin, casting judgment on a thief, or taking livelihood from people who trusted *you*? No answer is necessary, he's already answered publicly. We already know that he values friendship over his honor.

I have no animosity towards Frank for mocking Bills' religion. I wouldn't personally go to the extent that he has, but let's be honest, Bills trotted out faith to justify his actions, and thusly, can be judged by his thought process. Otherwise, if saying "bullsh*t" to a man who hides behind his faith is automatically out of the question, it becomes the ultimate cop-out.

And your argument about getting rid of the only "people person" is silly. How much business do you think an avowed thief can conduct? A lot of business is conducted on reputation.

"Hi, I stole 3/4 of a million dollars and refuse to pay my employees, but really I'm a great guy! Let's do some business! Trust me!"

If Coleman was honest about his desire to make good, he could put his house up on the market, liquidate his assets, and pour all that money back into Catalyst. He might even get some of the money back that would have been due to him.

But we won't see that. If Coleman can maintain a way to smooth things out and still profit, he will (Catalyst has said this is basically the "intent" of the company's future). If he can bail out and still profit, it's a small stretch to guess he will do that. At this point, I'd rather be cynical and expect the worst from everyone involved, because if I'm wrong, I can only be happily surprised.

Ok, I missed it, where/when did Randall Bills claim faith and all that stuff? Could someone point me to that?

It's in the open letter to the freelancers. I don't feel like going through all the CGL speculation threads to find it, but I think it's in the first one.

I think it may have been erased. If you google "For those of you who don't know me, my name is Randall Bills" however, you ought to come up with the content.

And that is exactly the part that is bugging me recently. There's certainly more than just that that upsets me in the situation, but this is the most recent. When things first broke, I can understand playing close to the vest. A lot was unverified, a lot sound like rumor-mongering, or carrying on old grudges. Once it spread to the extent that it has (minor outside of the online community, but fairly significant here), well, CGL's reaction was disappointing for me. It's something I've really enjoyed on the BT side, was having a great deal of open access and ongoing dialog the future product line and the processes taken to get those products to market. Randall's Battleblogs and Herb's weekly posts/tweets are good examples of what really kept me interested on that side of the product. But in this case, once you've gotten other owners discussing the situation, internal owner documents, leaking of drafts of future products...the cat's way out of the bag. It's time to start interacting more directly with the folks who are asking questions, at least to make sure there's a response to what's being discussed. I know Jason's done a lot to help in that regard where possible, but that's a management failing in my mind. Not on him, but on management itself.

Did they need to be posting here on Dumpshock or on the CBT forums? Definitely not. Did they need to keep their fingers on the pulse of the community, and have the press releases coming out far more regularly to address issues that pulse was clueing them into? You betcha.

1)
You should read the leaked letter from Randall. Frank's criticism of Randall focused on only a small part of the letter- Randall talking about his personal relationship with the Colemans, and his reasoning for forgiving them on a personal level. Part of that had to do with his religion- but he specifically states in the letter that if it wasn't for other reasons (which he lists) then he would have asked Loren to step down.

The other reasons he lists specifically talk about, for example, how several professionals contacted CGL to advise them to keep Loren; including three 'titans'- two of which are 'intimately familiar with Topps', and are helping them renew the licences with Topps. The other reasons also include that Loren has contributed significantly to CGL's success thus far, and he believes his skills will continue to be a significant benefit, and that throughout his career, he's seen 'again and again' that giving people a second chance after a mistake instead of 'kicking them to the curb' benefits the company.

In short, Randall states that he decided to keep Loren in the company because they are far more likely to renew the licences with him in the company, he has significant support in the industry with 'titans', despite said titans knowing the situation, and that his skills are valuable and will continue to benefit the company. He concluded the letter with a personal note that he decided to maintain their personal relationship, in part, because of his religion.


2) I can't really comment on this one. That's between Jason and Randall- but again, in his letter, Randall states the fault is his. He says he failed to pay attention, and see the signs. I personally suspect that he isn't commenting to the fans more because Randall has suddenly found himself dealing with a lot more than he used to. His statment in his letter that he carries the blame for this mess because he didn't see the signs... jives with what I always figured about Randall- while he's an owner, I always thought of him as more part of the creative team than the management team. He was the Line Developer for Battletech for a long time (FASA and Fanpro I believe), and then was promoted to the head Line Developer with CGL. He's the one concerning himself with the books... while Phillip DeLuca seemed to be the one that ran the Battleshop and... Loren ran the finances and legalities. If I had to guess... Randall found out the hard way he should have been a bigger part of finances and management and is now taking over a lot of those responsibilities... so probably doesn't have a whole lot of time to dampen the fires. That, and he's always seems to have been more of the Battletech Community than the Shadowrun.

Though... I will add that as far as I know, Jason must be a masochist or something. As I understand it, his time here is entirely voluntary. Why he keeps coming here for more abuse is... a good question.

Either way though, both of them seem to be much stronger men than me. I know I couldn't do their jobs- I'm stressed enough as is, and I'm just graduating college

Randall has been more occupied lately (as in before this all blew up) getting Leviathans off the ground, and dealing with the casual and other games (Like Balance of Power etc).

I think the most important reason that Randall hasn't 'gotten rid of Loren' is that it isn't Randall's place to do so. Adjustments to management will come from the owners as a whole, following all the procedures and documentation that are needed.

I do not trust a vague "titans of the industry support Coleman" claim. First, "titans of the industry" is a meaningless term - you can call Coleman a "titan of the industry" as well. Second, such claims without naming the supporters are useless. If someone supports Coleman, then he/she should be named/name him/herself. If they're not willing to publically support Coleman then their support is meaningless to begin with. Third, no one can check the veracity of such a claim without names.

And noone needs to be named. This is not a witchhunt. This is an investigation. So as soon as this thing goes to a court of law (and I can't see why it wouldn't) everything that needs to be known will be published. Everything else will stay silent and therefor have no impact on the ruling.

I don't agree that "Titans of the industry" should be obliged to publicly support Loren if they do, but I do have severe doubts that there are such things as "Titans of the industry". What would that mean? People who are so influential that they could have the slightest outcome on the legal mess that CGL appears to be in? Not a chance. People who have such financial resource that they'd be willing to step in and bail CGL out with financial assistance? Very doubtful and more fool them if they did. People whose opinion carries such weight that it will have any noticeable effect on sales to the public? I know of no such person and anyone who does give such public endorsement should be doing so on the basis of quality of product, not on the basis of a friendship with Loren Coleman, because their reputation will be mud the moment they do otherwise.

Honestly, I struggle to put meaning on "Titans of the industry" in any way that would have a positive effect on CGL distinct from anyone else's support. The only meaning I can see is a very, very negative one which is to say that some would broker deals, etc. on the basis of loyalty to Loren. E.g. "I'll sign this license 'cause you're my friend". I.e. it's code for serious corruption and back-scratching. I don't think anyone would be stupid enough to tie that anchor round their neck, though.

K.

EDIT: I've misread Fuchs, as has the previous poster. He didn't say that such "Titans" must be named, but rather that they must be named for their support to carry any weight with outsiders. That makes sense.

This is not about a court. Claiming "Coleman is supported by great people, which shall remain anonymous for now" is a bad statement from a PR and management point of view. The ones addressed, freelancers in this case, will ask themselves "Who supports him?" and then "and why can't or won't they say who supports him?", which does not inspire confidence and trust - which is the point of the claim in the first place.

To be perfectly blunt - the letter was aimed at the freelancers, not you. You can argue all about how the fans have a stake in this debacle, but in this case (the letter, and it's contents), it has nothing to do with anyone but the intended recipients.

Of course. But as I laid out above - the letter does not succeed in increasing trust and confidence where it needed to. Those who trust Randall Bills based on such a claim they can't verify nor quantify for lack of names would likely have trusted him anyway without the claim, since trust in him and his judgement is needed to trust the "titans" claim without any names. But those who do not trust Randall Bills (that much) will not start to trust him (more) based on the "titans" claim. Mabye they'll trust him less for the lack of proof for said claim, and the questions it rises. So, it was a bad move.

It sounds exactly like this, though, in Randall's letter:


I read this as saying: these people are exceedingly well connected within the gaming industry such as there is, and know the market and it's rules intimatly. Also, they have a good deal of influence with Topps. And Loren L Colman is the key to these ressources for Catalyst. And these Titans seem to have given their support on the condition Loren is kept around.

That is, at least, what I take from this.

Now that you've highlighted the exact wording, you're right. It really does sound almost exactly like: "Loren's good friends with people in Topps and they'll let this slide". That's really bad. Hard to think of other interpretations to put on "intimately familiar with Topps".

K.

I didnt misread him. We as a public and we as players and fans of Shadowrun still do not own a single pencil of CGL. So they don't have to tell us anything and don't have to reveal anything to us. There is a lot of anger out there at the moment (IMHO, justified anger) against Loren Coleman. If people who support him for whatever reasons would step into the public, they would face the wrath and hatred of thousands of people. They would be reduced to collateral damage in the witch-hunt against Loren Coleman which I can see brooding in the Shadowrun fanbase. I can perfectly understand them being angry (I am myself), but flinging mud at everyone who is assosiated with Loren Coleman on a friendly basis wont do anyone any good. And thats exactly what would happen if these people stepped into the open.

Without any names being given it's still just a claim without anything to support it. If you trust Randall Bills or his judgement you trust his claim, if you do not trust him or his judgement you don't trust the claim.

There's a difference between being angry at people who are friends with Coleman, and being angry at people who support him staying in business (and who also might be friends with him). The latter is entirely justified if being angry at Coleman is justified.

Yes, but what Fuchs said was that without actual people coming forward, claims that people support Loren in any meaninful way don't carry much weight. And that is correct. As Fuchs said, you either trusted in the first place, in which case this is merely reassurance, you didn't trust, in which case this carries no weight because there's nothing to back it up, or, as Hermit has pointed out, it makes it sound like collusion. And that just downright offends me.

You're addressing a point that Fuch's didn't make.

K.

EDIT: You also use the term "witch hunt". A witch hunt is where people erroneously persecute people without any evidence, Salem witchtrials, McCarthy communist phobia, etc. In this case, we actually have seen Loren turn someone into a newt. Whether or not they get better is still a big unknown.

Not saying this is good, at all, but if things went down as in my "I have friends at Topps" scenario, Randall would have been in a very uncomfortable position, with every choice he has being a bad one. Not exactly enviable. It's conceivable his faith may have helped him hold his nose and rationalise the decision he was basically forced to make in this scenario.

And again presuming my suppositions have a grain of truth in them - if names were leaked here, we'd have an all-new co-mingling of personal and business matters shitstorm at Topps at our hands. So it makes sense the names were not mentioned, from their point of view.

Now I'm getting your point. Goddamn language barrier... I stand corrected

I really only know of two Titans of the Gaming Industry who are still alive:
Steve Jackson and Kevin Siembeida. Some MIGHT consider Jordan Weisman
a "Titan of the Industry" as well, but since he is no longer part of the gaming
industry.

The Internet is where one person says "5 + 3 = 8" and another person says "3 + 5 = 8".

And then they fight.



Peace,

Khadim.

Almost struck out, then you found the ball...

Remember, though we make lots of assumptions about the "industry" that Topps might have a different view. To some folks the "Industry" covers all toys and boardgames, as well as any video games spun off those lines. Meaning, DS's view of these "Titans" might be a tad narrow. You kids might wanna think outside the box (or books as it might be)

I know this is a relatively small matter to make a correction on, but I am in fact a paid staff member of CGL, so a lot of the posting I do here could be considered part of that job. I'm not required by the job to come here, technically, but it certainly seems like a good idea to me to try to stay in touch with fans. I want to see Shadowrun do well, with a regular line of good releases, and I love the game (I did other volunteer work, like my annual "Save Shadowrun fiction" meetings at GenCon), but I also have a financial stake in all this and I don't want to act like that's not the case.

Jason H.

This can certainly be considered a "witchhunt" if guilt is cast on anyone who appears to support Coleman for any reason. Righteous anger has a way of misplacing itself.