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rumanchu
I know that getting the cost for alpha- beta- and deltaware gear are increased, but are there any rules for increasing the availability of higher-grade implants?
tagz
I don't think there is any listed.

I think mostly because availability will almost never be the prohibitive factor when acquiring higher grades of cyber, it will be the cost.
Karoline
QUOTE (tagz @ May 27 2010, 07:39 PM) *
I don't think there is any listed.

I think mostly because availability will almost never be the prohibitive factor when acquiring higher grades of cyber, it will be the cost.


Actually from what I've heard it tends to be the opposite. Delta grade ware is supposed to be ultra rare, and thus is purely under the control of the GM, as opposed to being something as simple as an availability roll.
Yerameyahu
That makes more sense, Karoline. You'd kind of wish the availability mechanic were flexible enough to handle everything, though.
Karoline
Looking at it, it seems like it was designed without vehicles or 'ware in mind, since the availability time maxes out at 10k.

The other problem is that it really isn't difficult at all (even slightly) to get a face to 20 dice where they can get roughly 24 availability stuff in 4 rolls. So if delta grade was just an availability roll, it would either be too low and the face could get it in no time, or it would be too high and no one except a face could even have the slightest wisp of a chance of getting it.

Personally I kind of prefer leaving it in the hands of the GM, as it keeps delta (and even beta) grade ware something that is special, and not just the next step on a character's 'ware path. It also means that the GM can dangle delta access as a carrot for a mission.
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (Karoline @ May 27 2010, 06:21 PM) *
Looking at it, it seems like it was designed without vehicles or 'ware in mind, since the availability time maxes out at 10k.

The other problem is that it really isn't difficult at all (even slightly) to get a face to 20 dice where they can get roughly 24 availability stuff in 4 rolls. So if delta grade was just an availability roll, it would either be too low and the face could get it in no time, or it would be too high and no one except a face could even have the slightest wisp of a chance of getting it.

Personally I kind of prefer leaving it in the hands of the GM, as it keeps delta (and even beta) grade ware something that is special, and not just the next step on a character's 'ware path. It also means that the GM can dangle delta access as a carrot for a mission.


A Carrot that often takes a very long time to actually grasp...
But when you do, it is wonderful...

Keep the Faith
Mantis
I've always made the access to Delta clinics the hard part. Sure you can get the cyberware easily enough but you also need the Delta clinic to get it implanted. They have sort of listed where you can find these clinics in various source books (Corporate Enclaves for Chiba for example) but the rest is left in GM hands (where it should be). Delta ware is supposed to be more complex to install and so you can't just go buy some and have the local street doc implant it for you. Or that's the way I've always run it anyway.

Also Tymeaus, I love your sig. Look out, here comes English with it's language club! nyahnyah.gif
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (Mantis @ May 27 2010, 09:32 PM) *
I've always made the access to Delta clinics the hard part. Sure you can get the cyberware easily enough but you also need the Delta clinic to get it implanted. They have sort of listed where you can find these clinics in various source books (Corporate Enclaves for Chiba for example) but the rest is left in GM hands (where it should be). Delta ware is supposed to be more complex to install and so you can't just go buy some and have the local street doc implant it for you. Or that's the way I've always run it anyway.


Indeed... In all my 20 years of Playing, Only Twice have I ever had any Delta Grade 'Ware... If it was easy, everyone would have it...

Keep the Faith
Maxwell Silverhammer
Please also keep in mind that "Delta Ware" is not just super cyber thats low on essence cost and expensive. It is custom built to the character, the neural interfaces are made for his/her specific synapse' specifically designed for the subjects DNA, the bone attachments are engineered for the bones they are going in/on/around. Everything about delta is unique, one of a kind and mostly custom. Magic is used in the installation, and during the after care to tune it to the recipient. This take time, lots of it, months. Years for cyber zombie level delta suites Delta 'ware also requires a delta clinic. As I understand the SR world there are maybe half a dozen delta clinics around the world.. and most of them are run by the mega's, or governments. Delta is the "holy grail " of cyberware, and as such is always restricted in my games to very high karma characters. I.E. 400+. It has never simply been"make the roll" (regardless of how ridiculously high the roll has to be) to get delta with any of the groups I have played or GM'ed. It was months of in game play time chasing down contacts, building good reps with the right Mr. Johnson's. kissing the right hoop, etc.

IMO: I guess in a whole lot less words, Delta was for plot and story advancement, and as a reward for years of work for a specific corp or Govt. Not for Munchkining. (Thats a real word) smile.gif
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (Maxwell Silverhammer @ May 27 2010, 09:42 PM) *
Please also keep in mind that "Delta Ware" is not just super cyber thats low on essence cost and expensive. It is custom built to the character, the neural interfaces are made for his/her specific synapse' specifically designed for the subjects DNA, the bone attachments are engineered for the bones they are going in/on/around. Everything about delta is unique, one of a kind and mostly custom. Magic is used in the installation, and during the after care to tune it to the recipient. This take time, lots of it, months. Years for cyber zombie level delta suites Delta 'ware also requires a delta clinic. As I understand the SR world there are maybe half a dozen delta clinics around the world.. and most of them are run by the mega's, or governments. Delta is the "holy grail " of cyberware, and as such is always restricted in my games to very high karma characters. I.E. 400+. It has never simply been"make the roll" (regardless of how ridiculously high the roll has to be) to get delta with any of the groups I have played or GM'ed. It was months of in game play time chasing down contacts, building good reps with the right Mr. Johnson's. kissing the right hoop, etc.

IMO: I guess in a whole lot less words, Delta was for plot and story advancement, and as a reward for years of work for a specific corp or Govt. Not for Munchkining. (Thats a real word) smile.gif


Took me two years, a huge chunk of change, 302 Karma, and a huge story investment before I finally managed to actually acquire the 'ware I was looking for...

Keep the Faith
Mäx
QUOTE (Maxwell Silverhammer @ May 28 2010, 05:42 AM) *
As I understand the SR world there are maybe half a dozen delta clinics around the world.. and most of them are run by the mega's, or governments.

That might have have been true back in the fifties, but as far as i can from sourcebooks there are a lot more of them now days(but their still not common) and some of them are even open to private inviduals with right connections and a boat load of money.
Makki
QUOTE (rumanchu @ May 28 2010, 01:37 AM) *
I know that getting the cost for alpha- beta- and deltaware gear are increased, but are there any rules for increasing the availability of higher-grade implants?


there's an indirect availability. you need to find the right clinic. Aug p. 122
The Lorax
The availability rules in sr4 are terrible. Availability used to mean something in the pass. If an item had a high Availability, there was a very real chance you would never get your hands on it. In sr4, you will eventually get it. Extended tests always succeed unless its either some ridiculous number, which no piece of gear in the game has, or your very terrible in social situations. Like cha 1 and no influence skills terrible. And even then if you have enough money and access to a fixer or other appropriate contact its not going to matter. Even at 24/1 week. You WILL get the item or service your after.

Teulisch
meh, even with changes to extended tests in SR4a, someone with 18 dice (skill 6, attribute 6, emotitoy r6) you can simply BUY 30-some hits over time. you could buy a 24 in seven time increments.

no, the reason that delta is so very scarce is the need for a delta clinic. Clinics dont have availability, and the delta ones tend to only be in places like corporate headquarters. heck even a beta clinic is hard to find, especially a shadow beta clinic that can install those fancy restricted/forbidden items for you.

beta and delta grades are a thing of game balance. upgrading from alpha to betaware is sort of like having the adept initiate a couple times and increase magic. if its too easy to get beta, then you put the adept at a disadvantage, but if its too hard to get betaware then the sams are at a disadvantage. and lets face it, you see more games where runners get paid crap if at all than you see games where you just dont get any karma.
LurkerOutThere
Honestly as the game presses on and I become more comfortable running it I'm less and less convinced in the need for deltaware being a holy grail. In my current campaign the characters got access to it fairly early on and it really hasn't broken anything. More and more I'm kind of annoyed by the way cyberware has basically stagnated since the game first came out. Cybered characters are frankly already at a disadvantage in SR4 especially compared to their magical counterparts, I see no reason to keep up this charade.
Stahlseele
Standard and Alpha have been freely available even i SR3 allready.
Better shops even keep beta stuff in their storage. Only Delta is really rare.
It's basically the same difference you see today in the graphics cards for computers.
Standard Grade: Radeon 4x Series.
Alpha Grade: Radeon 5650
Beta Grade: 5870
Delta Grade: 5970 with 4 Gigs of RAM and 6 mini display ports.
Rotbart van Dainig
QUOTE (Teulisch @ May 28 2010, 02:44 PM) *
Clinics dont have availability, […]

They do. Even Delta clinics. Check Augmentation.
Yerameyahu
Stahlseele, if you can buy it retail and without a license, it's not Delta. smile.gif
LurkerOutThere
Why? Surely someone is purchasing this product legally otherwise it would hardly be cost effective to produce it. The "Delta is soooper sekrit" super rare ideology made some sense when it first hit the steets, but the tech curve should have caught up by now, the only reason it wouldn't have by now is some wierd belief it's necissary for game balance.

Yerameyahu
If it weren't that special, there'd be Epsilon grade above it. smile.gif There's a difference between legally-purchaseable and retail-no-license.
Stahlseele
QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ May 28 2010, 10:07 PM) *
Stahlseele, if you can buy it retail and without a license, it's not Delta. smile.gif

You should be able to buy Delta grade stuff that is legal, if you can afford it.
Well, at least if you can get into the clinic.
Why would i not be able to buy a delta grade datajack?
All it does is let me slot some chips and connect to other stuff.
And eyes too. And implanted comlinks.
These are like todays cellphones and MP3-players, sunglasses and the such.
If it weren't for the "only standard and alpha available on char-gen" you could actually get a delta grade datajack in SR3.
All Delta did was add +8 to availability. Seeing how the Datajack starts off with availability of yes, it's yes +8.
and availability 8 is fair game for character creation under SR3 rules. and it still only costs 8000 Nuyen!
Yerameyahu
Ah, I see what you mean. I didn't think about datajacks, because that's not what anyone's talking about for Delta. smile.gif My point is that the availability and legality should be clearly given, because Deltaware should not simply be very expensive. It *should* also be rare and potentially less-legal, depending on the situation. You're right that an across-the-board ruling doesn't fit. … Which is why the GM can say so. smile.gif
Rotbart van Dainig
QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ May 28 2010, 10:35 PM) *
If it weren't that special, there'd be Epsilon grade above it.

No. Delta "just" the state of the art implant technology.

And it's development needs to pay off, as well as maintaining those clinics with all that world-class and best-of-the-best staff.
Sure, you need to be able to afford it. Sure, you need to get an appointment.
But not selling it? That's pointless.
Stahlseele
I mean, that's the whole story behind shadowrun.
The Corps are gonna sell if the price is right.
You can get military equipment in laos, weapons, tanks, electronics . .
There's 5 or more Delta Clinics in one district in Japan ALONE.
If you can afford it, nobody is going to ask more questions than:"when, which colour?"
Ascalaphus
I'd say Standard-Delta are relative grades of how SOTA something is. What used to be Delta in the 2040s could be considered Standard by now. Current Delta is what they're making in top-secret labs; it's less for actual use than a byproduct of research.

And yes, that means to me it makes sense that over time the Essence cost of Standard ware will go down; a 2030 Standard cyberarm is dearer than a 2070 Standard cyberarm.

(Of course, there's no chance of something like that going smoothly between edition changes nyahnyah.gif)
Rotbart van Dainig
QUOTE (Ascalaphus @ May 28 2010, 11:47 PM) *
What used to be Delta in the 2040s could be considered Standard by now.

There was no Delta grade back then, plain and simple. wink.gif

Delta is one thing and one thing only: The best custom ware money can buy.
Lab stuff is not detailed.
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (LurkerOutThere @ May 28 2010, 01:17 PM) *
Why? Surely someone is purchasing this product legally otherwise it would hardly be cost effective to produce it. The "Delta is soooper sekrit" super rare ideology made some sense when it first hit the steets, but the tech curve should have caught up by now, the only reason it wouldn't have by now is some wierd belief it's necissary for game balance.



You cannot mass produce Delta Grade Cyberware... it is created for the person it is intended to be implanted in... it has to be custom crafted and custom tuned so that the 'ware is as close a match to, and as Essence friendly to, the body as it can possibly be...

That is why it is not out there on the market (which is why there is no availability listed)... the big benefit to Delta Ware is that it will allow you to cram in 2-5 times the amount of Cyuberware into a metahuman body (you can get just at 29.9 points totla in Deltaware if you really really try... (Biocompatibility, Customized Suite, Adapsin, and Delta Grade (.2 Cost for Essence)...

THAT is the big deal for Deltaware... it will allow you to cram so much into your body that you will probably run out of things to augment with rather than running out of Essence completely...

Keep the Faith
Stahlseele
And then you get bitten by a vampire and either die from essence loss or get turned and lose all of it in the transformation.
Karoline
QUOTE (Stahlseele @ May 28 2010, 08:57 PM) *
And then you get bitten by a vampire and either die from essence loss or get turned and lose all of it in the transformation.


You keep deltaware wink.gif
Banaticus
And shapechangers can have deltaware installed in their "normal" shape (either animal or drake or whatever, not their human form or it'll be pushed out of the body when they switch back). A Dragon with 29 essence points worth of cyberware... He'd still be able to cast better than just about any other normal mage...
Stahlseele
QUOTE (Karoline @ May 29 2010, 03:06 AM) *
You keep deltaware wink.gif

ah, right, i forgot about that O.o
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (Banaticus @ May 28 2010, 09:54 PM) *
And shapechangers can have deltaware installed in their "normal" shape (either animal or drake or whatever, not their human form or it'll be pushed out of the body when they switch back). A Dragon with 29 essence points worth of cyberware... He'd still be able to cast better than just about any other normal mage...


Especially since he only loses 6 points of Magic out of his total...

Keep the Faith
Medicineman
QUOTE (The Lorax @ May 28 2010, 03:34 AM) *
...Availability used to mean something in the pass. If an item had a high Availability, there was a very real chance you would never get your hands on it. In sr4, you will eventually get it. ...

Whats the Use of Items if the Chars can never get them ?
Show It to them and Tell them:"Nyah,Nyah you can't have that " ?
....Meh !

Hough!
Medicineman

Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (Medicineman @ May 29 2010, 10:51 AM) *
Whats the Use of Items if the Chars can never get them ?
Show It to them and Tell them:"Nyah,Nyah you can't have that " ?
....Meh !

Hough!
Medicineman


I am a big fan of letting the characters use what they can get their hands on... and if they can get their hands on Delta Ware, then great... I do, however, believe that you should not just be able to go online, do a quick search, and then order up your Delta Grade implants and have them installed next week... You should have to work for something like that...at least in my opinion... if you get it with no work, then you will tend to not appreciate it, and demand even more...

At least in my experience anyways... Ever hear of Monty Haul (I know, the game that causes Cancer, but this is where you will find that attitude most prevelant)?

Keep the faith
LurkerOutThere
If they have the money for said gear did they not earn it? Basically to me it sounds like you want folks to earn it twice. I"m fine with Delta clinics being a bit more selective and the gear taking longer to aquire because of actual technical limitations of the parts involved but this conceit that there are only a handful of delta clinics in the world only doing a handful of surgeries a year because it's light years ahead of the tech curve (which lets face it it just isn't, especially when you factor in bioware). and therefore needs to be kept super ultra double top secret.
Medicineman
QUOTE (Tymeaus Jalynsfein @ May 29 2010, 11:55 AM) *
I am a big fan of letting the characters use what they can get their hands on... and if they can get their hands on Delta Ware, then great... I do, however, believe that you should not just be able to go online, do a quick search, and then order up your Delta Grade implants and have them installed next week... You should have to work for something like that...at least in my opinion... if you get it with no work, then you will tend to not appreciate it, and demand even more...

At least in my experience anyways... Ever hear of Monty Haul (I know, the game that causes Cancer, but this is where you will find that attitude most prevelant)?

Keep the faith


I Agree totally
Same Mindset here biggrin.gif
Whats the Saying ;:"The Hard-earned Fruit tastes the sweetest "?
But never being able to get some Deltaware when you know it exists is also Frustrating
No,If never watched Monty Haul in Germany baut I have an Idea what Its about
(or do you mean D&D ?)

He who Dances with a nod
Medicineman
LurkerOutThere
Monty Haul isn't a show (to my knowledge) but a refrence to a certain game world or style of DnD, some folks swear by it and I make it a point to never knock other folks fun but because I have never been able to get into DND I really don't know much about it beyond that.
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (LurkerOutThere @ May 29 2010, 11:07 AM) *
If they have the money for said gear did they not earn it? Basically to me it sounds like you want folks to earn it twice. I"m fine with Delta clinics being a bit more selective and the gear taking longer to aquire because of actual technical limitations of the parts involved but this conceit that there are only a handful of delta clinics in the world only doing a handful of surgeries a year because it's light years ahead of the tech curve (which lets face it it just isn't, especially when you factor in bioware). and therefore needs to be kept super ultra double top secret.


Please don't confuse me with saying that there are limited Clinics... I do think that they are out there, yes, but I do not think that they are "Readily Available" to individuals without a SIN... It is difficult to acquire, but never impossible... it should just be a lot of work... The money ios only one element in acquiring access to that Delta Clinic... you need the contacts that will support your bid for such 'ware as well... without either, your quest for the 'Ware will all be for naught...

Once you have made Delta Clinics available, Your greatest control over the technology has gone by the wayside... once it is available, it will be continuously used by the characters with access... once you have access, all you then need is time and money... and teh money will be the big problem... I don't know about your table, but at our's the money flow is pretty good, and yet, tehre are always other things to purchase to remain competitive within the shadows... A new vehicle to replace the one blown up, a new drone, a new piece of armor, the latest weapon, better custom designed software, an increase to your lifestyle, additional Lifestyles (like Safehouses), etc.... it all adds up, which leaves less for the expensive process of acquiring that Delta Grade Upgrade you have been eyeing...

All this stuff is totally available at our table, and yet, it still took me 2 years to put all my eggs in the same basket... The Money, The Contacts, and the Location of the Clinic... and I may not be able to use the clinic again, as I had to burn a pretty impressive favor to actually get put on the list for the upgrades that I was seeking...

Keep the Faith
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (LurkerOutThere @ May 29 2010, 11:11 AM) *
Monty Haul isn't a show (to my knowledge) but a refrence to a certain game world or style of DnD, some folks swear by it and I make it a point to never knock other folks fun but because I have never been able to get into DND I really don't know much about it beyond that.


No worries really, but after the fifth adventure where you find the Sword of Everlasting Doom (or some such similar, way overpowered magical item) well, then it is just more treasure to haul back and sell on the market... it means nothing, because it really costs nothing to acquire... "Ho Hum, Another Magic Item, throw it in the Chest of Holding with all of the rest of them"

When I run my campaign (I use DnD 3.5 Edition Rules with the Magic Systems and Character Classes of the Black Company), Magic is personal and customized... you do not just run into a +1 Sword (which you can literally stumble over in the Forgotten Realms)... each and every item was created with a purpose in mind... Wizards do not just churn out items willy nilly, and Magic is both feared and respected... This is how it should be in my opinion, and my players love it...

I see High Quality, Low Essence, Delta Ware to be in the same vein... it is often the quest that matters, The journey is everything, not the destination... In the end, if all you do is change your Current 'Ware Package to Delta Ware, you have not even improved upon your capabilities, but that is often irrelevant (But you now have a whopping great Essence Hole that you can use for aditional ware, which will improve your capabilities, which is often its own reward)...

Keep the Faith
Yerameyahu
The D&D reference is *from* the show. smile.gif
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ May 29 2010, 12:07 PM) *
The D&D reference is *from* the show. smile.gif


Yeah... Sorry if I forgot to mention that...

Keep the Faith
Ascalaphus
I think the point of deltaware isn't the money cost.

Deltaware clinics aren't really built to service the public, they're high-tech research facilities where they build cyberzombies and other sick monsters. If enough people find out where a delta clinic is located, the corporation might just decide to move it, because the clinic is likely to be the target of shadowruns - extraction of the doctors, or just plain sabotage.

By the time a corporate Johnson is willing to offer you access to a delta clinic, he's probably also willing to pay for whatever you're getting there; you're doing bigtime business if he's willing to let you know he has a delta clinic, and whatever modification you're getting is probably either payment, or more likely, required gear for the job he's got for you.
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (Ascalaphus @ May 29 2010, 12:21 PM) *
I think the point of deltaware isn't the money cost.

Deltaware clinics aren't really built to service the public, they're high-tech research facilities where they build cyberzombies and other sick monsters. If enough people find out where a delta clinic is located, the corporation might just decide to move it, because the clinic is likely to be the target of shadowruns - extraction of the doctors, or just plain sabotage.

By the time a corporate Johnson is willing to offer you access to a delta clinic, he's probably also willing to pay for whatever you're getting there; you're doing bigtime business if he's willing to let you know he has a delta clinic, and whatever modification you're getting is probably either payment, or more likely, required gear for the job he's got for you.


Indeed...

Keep the Faith
Rotbart van Dainig
QUOTE (Ascalaphus @ May 29 2010, 08:21 PM) *
I think the point of deltaware isn't the money cost.

It is. See Augmentation for the Availability of getting access to a Delta clinic:

It's easier than to get a MBW III.
Medicineman
When I run my campaign (I use DnD 3.5 Edition Rules with the Magic Systems and Character Classes of the Black Company), Magic is personal and customized...
If you Play RAW D&D magic Items are nessecery for Chars to be effective (especially at Higher Levels 8+) If you make Magic Items rare than you have to finetune your Campaign (less magic Monsters,etc) But I'm sure you are aware of these Dangers smile.gif
And for all those who think that D&D causes Cancer:
You should be glad that you don't know DSA (Its called "The Dark Eye" in English I guess)

with an offtopic Dance
Medicineman
Ascalaphus
QUOTE (Rotbart van Dainig @ May 29 2010, 07:39 PM) *
It is. See Augmentation for the Availability of getting access to a Delta clinic:

It's easier than to get a MBW III.


Hmm. I'd have to houserule that away.

Or a better Availability system or something.
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (Medicineman @ May 29 2010, 02:19 PM) *
When I run my campaign (I use DnD 3.5 Edition Rules with the Magic Systems and Character Classes of the Black Company), Magic is personal and customized...
If you Play RAW D&D magic Items are nessecery for Chars to be effective (especially at Higher Levels 8+) If you make Magic Items rare than you have to finetune your Campaign (less magic Monsters,etc) But I'm sure you are aware of these Dangers smile.gif
And for all those who think that D&D causes Cancer:
You should be glad that you don't know DSA (Its called "The Dark Eye" in English I guess)

with an offtopic Dance
Medicineman


Yep... I am aware, but the rules for gear in Black Company solve a lot of this, and I do provide magic, it is just purpose built by the mage, or something else that is going on... The fine tuning has happened over a very long and very entertaining Campaign... this is the 5th group of players over 20 years tha thave played in the campaign setting and the story has developed in some very interesting ways. By reducing the crazy amounts of Magic, it has reduced the magical arms race that often develops in Settings like Forgotten Realms, where you can Easily achieve Armor Classes in the 30's (Believe me, I have played characters that have gotten there)...

It was very interesting that when the magic was slightly altered (Magic Slots have gone away completely, and the magic causes "Drain" in the form of non-lethal damage), the power creep almost completely died off, while still allowing high level Mages to flex their muscles when they really want to do so...

Sorry for the Derailment... we Return to our Normally Scheduled Topic...

QUOTE
QUOTE (Rotbart van Dainig @ May 29 2010, 07:39 PM)
It is. See Augmentation for the Availability of getting access to a Delta clinic:

It's easier than to get a MBW III.


Makes sense though, because the Move By Wires is often produced by the very same people that are running the Delta Clinics... Just because ytou have found a Delta Clininc does not immediately mean that you can now have MBW III, and just because you have satisfied the availability for MBW III doe snot mean that you have found a Delta Clinic... Note that there is NO AVAILABILITY for Delta Grade cyberware... what they have is availability for Delta Grade Clinics... They are indeed Mutually Exclusive when it comes to how available they are... In my world, you may (and probably will) find access to the MBW III LONG before you ever find access to a Delta Clininc... One is easy to find (the Gear Itself) and the other takes more than a Data Search to Acquire, as you need to convince those who run such places that you are worthy enough for tehm to provide you a service that htey hold near and dear to their Pocket Books... Afterall, you may just turn around and make a run against them once you know of their existence...

Once you have the Clininc... then you can start to acquire your Delta Grade Gear... some of that will be easy (Datajack) while others will be very difficult (MBW III)... this is intentional and okay...

Keep the Faith
Mäx
QUOTE (Ascalaphus @ May 29 2010, 08:21 PM) *
Deltaware clinics aren't really built to service the public

What are you talking about, ofcource they are, implanting deltaware to those rich willng to pay for it is how you fund those expensive reacher projects.
Yerameyahu
No, it's not. Having a giant corporation is how you fund them.
Ascalaphus
I'm of the opinion that delta clinics themselves will be able to lay hands on just about any implant; when you reach the delta clinic, the ordinary availability (and buying game) is irrelevant.
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