good question . . i am not sure O.o
*shrugs* halv them then, if it's by the pair instead of single items.
Still pretty good/bad eh? ^^

It's "beat" not "meet or beat" here, so 8.

(Otherwise 1 armor would be useless!)

1 Armor IS useless . . there's only humans with bare hands that do less damage . . and that would be stun anyway . .

Armor 1 against flechette is armor 6, so its not useless. BTW I love flechette rounds for no discernable reason.

If there isn't a special rule for delayed healing from pulling out all that birdshot, there should be.

Is that p->s damage resistible?

-Thug shoots at the troll with agility 3+ firearm 3=6 getting 4 hits + 5p from weapon=9 damage
-Troll rolls body 8+ armor6=14 getting 11 hits

So he takes the 9 damage as stun damage automatically or does he get to roll to resist it?
Would that roll be body+stun armor or body+will?

There some major disunderstanding going on in here.
9 damage
Troll has 6 points of armor, 9>6 so that damage is physical
If he get 9 or more hits on the resistance test he takes no damage, if less he take physical damage

If he have had at least 9 point of armor, damage he takes if getteng less then 9 hits would have been stun instead of physical.

Hunting. Not that many critters, even the para ones, have natural armor.

Screw the steak, send me the hamburger meat. (bang bang bang bang... or is it phwip phwip phwip phwip?)

wait wait wait, i messed up there.
Lemme get this straight.

Troll
body 10
armor 20/20

Thug
5p pistol
3 firearms
3 agility


So thug shoots troll (3+3=6) getting 4 hits (4+5ap) doing 9 damage
Troll rolls armor and body (20+10) getting 12 hits.
So now, does he take 9 stun or nothing?

If you use the right shotgun its <braaaaaaaap> "Damn, I din't know this gun was set on frappe!"

nothing

The ganger got 9 hits, but since the troll has massive armor values the damage would be Stun and not Physical. Then the troll rolls to resist, gets 12 hits, and catches the round in his teeth like he was a stage magician.

You can't have 15 body in a cyberskull, there isn't that much capacity.

So, Troll with the extraordinary attribute (body), genetic optimization (body), surge (other stuff including optimized body) all of which stacks for an augmented max of 18.

cyberskull 10 Body (using up all its capacity)
cyberlimb 18 Body, 1 Armor (1 capacity left, not enough for another point of armor) x4
cybertorso 16 Body (using up all its capacity)

Average Body = (10+18+18+18+18+16)/6= 16 Body, with 4 points of armor (although called shots to the chest or head will ignore that armor)

Oh, wait, I forgot to add bulk modification (although it requires obvious cyberlimbs).

2 to the skull for a point of armor (no capacity left)
3 to each limb for 2 more points of armor (no capacity left) -- could add an additional point of capacity to each limb for 1k each (not enough for more armor)
4 to the torso to bump body to 18 and a point of armor

Average Body = (10+18+18+18+18+18)/6 = 17 Body, with 14 armor (called shots to the head or torso only have 1 armor), but you're obviously a bulky fully cybered individual.

Total BP: only 35 for the body optimizations because we don't care what his original body was, then additional BP for the nuyen to buy...
Total Cost: 196,300 nuyen EDIT: only 166,300 because all limbs have to be obvious and can't be synthetic, which lowers the price
Availability: 36R for each limb and the torse (the skull is only 12R)

Then go to town putting all sorts of other stuff in, noting in passing that you only have a single point of capacity left in each limb and none in the torso/chest.

You're still getting wrong. There is neither body nor rolling involved in determining if the damage gets switched over to stun.

In the example given the thug gets 4 hits and assuming that's net hits then he will deal 9 damage. since that 9 damage does not exceed the armor of 20 (modified by AP if any) then it will be stun and will then be resisted by body plus armor to determine the amount of stun damage recieved.

edit: that'll teach me to talk before looking up the stats of the cyberpart in question. Just ignore this post.

I think the problem is the two step process.

Thug shoots at troll 3+3 getting 4. Troll, not in full defense, rolls his reaction to force the whiffle. Say he's got 5 reaction, because he's supertroll.

If the troll gets 4 hits (same # hits as ganger), he dodges, there's no damage resolved. 3 hits the thug nets 1 hit. 0 hits the thug gets all 4. Let's assume our troll gets 2. 2 net (4 from the thug for firearm roll - 2 from the troll for his reaction) hits for thug.

Now, thug's round applies damage. 5DV+2net = 7 DV. Armor 20 makes it stun damage.

Troll now rolls to resist 7S damage. 30 dice averaging 10 hits gives him 3 extras, complete negation.

AAAHHHh ok
i'm getting it now. Since the damage isn't more than the ballistic armor then there's no need to roll for that damage resist. Straight to stun resist roll which is done with body+stun armor.


Was i right in post #50?

There is no "stun" armor. The damage resistance roll is the same regardless of P or S damage from bullets: Ballistic Armor + Body.

Out of self defense... the RAW.

Armor Encumbrance:


Optional from Arsenal:


... and I can't find the armor stack rules in the RAW. Anyone know where they're at in SR4a? I checked the obvious places from the index.

To answer your question, then, yes. You just broke encumbrance. Though not the way I understand it.


8/6 + 3/1 = 11/7. + 2/6 = 13/13. You've busted the 2xbody rule here, -1 agility and reaction. Not sure where you got the 4/6 from.

They were looking at the 8/6 armor from the camo suit in conjunction with the body of 6. With armor of 8/6, you can only get 4/6 from other sources before you run afoul of the encumbrance rules.

It never says that Form fitting Body Armor doesn't stack with.... itself! DUN DUN DUUUUN!

Be like that guy with the 160 t-shirts all covered in layers and layers of FFBA. Since each layer of FFBA also rounds down for encumbrance, that means a body 4 character could get 24/4 B/I resistance from wearing 8 FFBA shirts, PPP forearms, shins and helmet.

RAW doggin it!

*nods*
OK, i forgot about that.

unfortunately, that will leave you with very little impact armor when your GM decides to bludgeon you to death with a crowbar.

Ah, the demon of bad phrasing bites me again. Thank you for the clarification, Jester.

Ha! Jesus. No, FFBA does not stack with itself.

So what do you guys do when the GM takes your over-engineered tank character sheet, photocopies it six times, and writes "Ares High-Threat Response Team Member" on each sheet? I mean, anything you have access to, the corps have more of, right?

Go play something fun instead? RPGs aren't about ruining everything.

Remind myself not to wait around long enough for the HRT to show up, and blaze a nice hole through the place inside of their response time.

Hit the vehicle. That's why the rocket launchers are in the book, right?

Muck with the damned GPS and Gridguide system. Put that useless overwatch decker to some work for once.

i throw magic or chem-tech at it/them, gloat and cart them off for spareparts and profit . .
One GM had me do NPC's for him once, and he promtly used them in a game against me and tried to gloat to me about finally having outsmarted me by having me build my usual combat monsters as opposition for my own combat monster . . so of course i showed him the deliberately placed flaws in these designs and prompty dismantled them . .
"The Stahl giveth, the Stahl taketh away!"

Just to throw a monkey wrench in the whole thing, for the above example the damage would be 6DV. The first net hit gives him the base damage value of the weapon, additional net hits add to that damage value.

"Add the net hits scored to the base Damage Value of the attack; this is the modified Damage Value."

Indeed, Draco.

Exactly.
One net hit is still one net hit. Base damage +1.

Actually, you can't kill the vehicle easily, as it has 20 points of vehicle armor and is faster, as strong, and harder to see than a troll stealth adept. You're also immune to HE grenades, as the amount of armor you have allows you to buy like 20 successes or more.

Also, you being hindered is just for physical actions. It does not include any actions while jacked in.


You're assuming you can find him or surprise him.

Whoa whoa whoa, did you not even READ my thread? It is a Rigger type character inside of a moving fortress. No sir, it takes A LOT more than just a "poke" to even scratch the paint on the car, much the the character itself. I question the fact you fully understand all the rules involved.

Actually The vehicle (assuming for 6-12 spirits and spells all the way around) was somewhere near the neighborhood of 32/32 - 44/44 (Or more if you buy armor for the now humanoid car/drone). To be fair I'm not sure I ever actually updated that thread with the new info.

Let's assume that vehicles are not part of a discussion of personal armor.

Why not? They have an upgrade called Personal Armor.

Which, itself, still is not a person's armor. It should be called Crew Armor, Passenger Armor, or something. Armored Cabin, I dunno.

Common sense dictates that this should be right. RAW however states you're inaccurate. Then again, just DV every weapon down one and it fits into your intent.

Of course, they may have already done that for simplicity.

Fair enough, then off the top of my head

Assuming a human with a Body of 6 with 6 essence and access to spells and spirits either from himself or from a contact/party member

All spells and Spirits are considered force 6
All armor upgrades (And armors) are assumed to stack only once (game doesn't support this)

24/24 out of cyberware
+36 armor from Spirit possessing the Cyberware parts
+36 from Harden Spell uses on Cyberlware parts

Greatcoat 6/5
FFBA 6/2 (counting as 3/1)
Helmet 2/2
PPP system 2/6 (all 5 items)
----------------
Total 16/15 (13/14)

Spirits possessing armor items +48
+48 from Harden Spell

Gell Packs in each item +8 (this will cause encumbrance, unless you use body x3 rule, also technically spirits can posses the gellpacks further increasing their utility, lets not do this for now)

Armor Value without Gellpacks
208/207

Armor Value with Gellpacks
216/215

Keep in mind that only the 16/15 from the worn armor counts for encumbrance purposes, everything else does not restrict your movements or penalize your stats.
Edit: I might be off on the worn armor by a few points, otherwise exchange the armor for something slightly less protective to stay around the 12ish range, the end numbers vary only slightly.
Edit 2: After cracking open my main rulebook it actually looks like the character is slightly encumbered, in this case two options present themselves. Either change the character to have a 7+ Bod and Agi, or remove some of the PPP system to get the armor down to 12/12. This will affect the final numbers by around -24 or so.

Ugh, possession.

For those resistant to innovation

Armor w/out Spirits (and might I add vehicles, for those of a more discerning taste)

132/133

Still (I think) more than sufficient to traipse about the average game with impunity.

And i cast one force 12 soundwave and the bastard is dead
AP -all for the win.

"So in the end its...
Body: 17/17
Cyberlimb Armor: 20/20
Heavy Military Armor(With Helm): 18/16
Orthoskin: +3/+3
PPP Tech: +2/+4
Troll Natural:+1/+1
Toughness3: +3/+3
Bone density 4: +4/+4
So... 68/68" - Belvidere

You can't wear Securetech PPP with military armour.

Could anyone point me to where i find that "Harden Spell" in the SR4 rules? Thanks!

btw. that's 14 Force 6 spirits + 14 Force 6 spells you use there ... where would you get all those mages from?

Correct me if i'm wrong but for every gel pack you'll lose 1 to body for knockdown checks... So this character will be at a -2 (body 6- to defense against knockdown?
If not, that's crazy..... something i'm guessing won't happen if you are 400bp with a restriction of 12 or below gear availability. Either way, ya forgot a shield....