I'm dyslexic, I won't even notice.

A official forum I would consider a high priority. The fact they have not had one yet is what seems foolish to me.

It probably will also be people who don't come here because it's not the "official" forum. I've known folks who seriously believed that "home-brewed" was a phrase so dirty that simply uttering it could send them screaming straight to hell. Do not pass go, do not collect $200. If it brings more people to the game and keeps them there longer, it'll probably mean folks will inevitably come here by way of osmosis. And we all know Dumpshock's like the Hotel California. You can check out any time you like, but you can never leave.

Hey, Home Brew is some of the best stuff around! Straight from your own 'still and...

Oh, wait, you're probably talking about something else, aren't you?

This is the thread about Peach Brandy, rite?

*shrug* When I google 'shadowrun forum', Dumpshock is 2 of the first 3 results. Using just 'shadowrun' leaves Dumpshock solidly in the top 10.

Sadly even dyslexia, doesn't help with the editorial sloppines(same timelines for two different years, at least twice)

Personally I consider bad editing, spelling errors and general bad proof reading in a printed material way more important then a new shiny web forum. Given the time, money and effort that will be needed to get it up and running they could have easily got out one or two of the errata that they are behind doing.

In my job I have to do it right first time because if you dont the client will boot you from the bidding process and you dont get any more work, this does I'm afraid set my standards for finished (and paid for) work quite high and it might not upset everyone as much as it does me.

I kinda doupt that the proof readers are the ones setting up the new forums.

That wasent what I was implying . Was more aimed at more resources for the people whos jobs are more important, if they had more people they can spend more time doing it right first time.

I see what you're saying but the resources for game development and the resources for branding/PR/etc (which an official forum would fall under) are typically two different pools. Also, I agree that typos, errors, and bad mechanics should be caught before publication but pulling people and money from the second pool won't solve the problem. Three people will catch 90% of errors in a product but it's up to the project editor/developer/whatever-you-want-to-call-him to actually implement them. That's where the breakdown is and pulling more resources into his/her influence typically won't fix the issue. I speak from experience both in my day job and my semi-pro writer gigs.

If the official forums provide something of value, people will make use of the service. Dumpshock will prosper if it provides better value and community. Only time will tell.

I can see your point I guess I'm looking at this from a simplistic budgeting point of view, when taking into consideration the possible less then in the black state of the company (what the truth is I cannot say but the impression given is less then perfect) any funds put into new projects like the forum while not directly take from the production side could have been used for the production side.

I will be trying to keep a open mind when I look at the official forums but I can see me coming here just as much if not more. whilst the discussion here can be rather heated and I cant say I get on with everyone, I would say I find the place quite stimulating.

If forums were the new wave of the future I might see your point. But this is something that should have been up 10+ years ago. You can always come up with a project that has a higher priority to push something onto the back burner. Bit the thing on the back burner still needs to get cooked eventually.

This is silly. Everyone has an official forum. It's incredible that Catalyst didn't yet, and unremarkable that they'd have one now. It's not a question of where 'your' company's man-hours are going.

Ouch, I kind of assumed it was more of a spelling, grammatical error issue not factual ones. Though two different time lines happen in proof readings especially when sections are split up. It would be especially bad on large scale collaborative projects that get rushed when materials get pulled.

Yeah, these were the errors that really got to me because it meant the book was missing actual content. Two years of timeline were excluded because previous year's entries were repeated. I also saw several cases where individual items from a timeline were repeated a year or two later. Very sloppy.

Like I said, increasing budgeting for the production side isn't going to catch mistakes. To reduce the number of mistakes that slip through, you need a better senior editor (or whoever sits at the top of the pole). He/She is the one who has the final "yay" or "nay" on a page and is responsible for implementing the corrections that others catch. When a product is released with multiple glaring errors that means the editor was asleep at the switch.

The only thing that would improve would by shifting funds would be the release schedule. More layout people and illustrators could be budgeted for projects leading to a quicker turn-around time.

Anyway, just speaking for myself, I wouldn't mind a venue where I can get an "official" rules question answered. I can always turn around and shred the answer on DS.

For example there is that poor Japanese company which now has had two lost lawsuits against TI resulting in mass suicides of their upper management

@Topic, why am I just thinking of WotC's Gleemax experiment?

Gleemax: either an industrial polish, or a porn site. (Both?)

Gleemax was an experiment in a Social Network for gaming. Gamers are too anti-social for that to work

Anti-Social? Hey, I resemble that!

Rule 34 nonwithstanding, Gleemax was Wizards' butchered attempt of creating something like facebook for gamers, based on two lines of thought
1.) "Everybody runs a social network these days, that means we need one, too"
2.) "Centralizing our community might draw people away from unoffical sites, which would be a better way to quell those nasty leaks [of cards from upcoming Magic sets] than suing some poor guy for an insane ammount and facing the community backlash"


The result was more or less a crappy forum with even worse extra "features", no suprise the project died in a short time.

Oh, I know (vaguely) what it was. I just never get tired of making fun of the name.

Dumpshock is its own VPN. Fastjack would be so proud. Now which one of you bastards is Clockwork?

As for 'official forums'. Um. yay? I'll probably still post here, though the official site might be useful for errata, but since the community tends to come up with its own good ideas anyway, I dunno how valuable errata would be.

I am hoping that SR4 lasts long enough that they build up their own decent collection of new material, as opposed to "Oh hey, I remember when this was called Cannon Companion/Shadowtech/Fields of Fire/whatever". Though like I said in another thread, I'd probably buy Rigger 4, cause Im a sucker ;P

Also, I only care about drama when it gets me extra xp or karma or lewt.

I thought Gleemax was the drug that was in the Kids in the Hall Brain Candy movie.

Im hoping for a Rules question sub-forum so many holes in the rules in 4e

I nominate Hermit.

I see the two boards as a better representation of the setting. The "Official" boards is the corp party line, and here is the runner's data haven and bbs. Here we can speak freely about how messed up things are or aren't, and there you have to watch your ass and harrumph when they say to. Not too oftain that real life mimic your RPGs...

That's . . sadly fitting somehow . .
Also, welcome aboard.
Take a look at the prove you're not a spam bot thread.

You know, if that analogy holds up, we're going to end up trying to hack each others forums for fun and spite, right?

I'm not sure what official game boards you've hung out on in the past, but you're making some pretty big assumptions there.

Maybe it's a bit more like Shadowland/Jackpoint? Shadowland is still out there in 4E, but Jackpoint is a subgroup of that... *shrug*

And profit! Fun and profit! Except there's no money involved in either board! So yeah, spite.

Jason H.

Yeah, but we've got spite for DAYS here.

Days?

This is the Internet. It runs on Spite.

And porn, but, seeing as the military developed it that goes without saying.

Nu-uh! Al Gore developed it! He said so!

Anyhow... It's HERE!!!

So, now we wait and see how it goes.

...

Or, you know, throw on our pink mohawks and spraypaint the hell out of it.

*snickers*
And of Course, uncle Bobby is one of the first to be there and not square ^^
Also, posting something meaningfull too O.o
THAT is a nice start for the official thingie . . People can find his fine stuff in an instant.
God damn it, but that is one fugly skin they chose for their board . .

Actually, I think you're all taking it the wrong way. By joining *that* forum, we can help direct it properly.

For instance, I just got in as FastJack.

The times, they are a-changin'.

*shrugs*
if i register it'll be either under this nick, or under my german pseudonym.

Yeah... I'm a total fanboi...

I see the other forums as just one more place to sate my SR addiction and a place to go complain with DS is down.

So I've been off forums of any type as they are now blocked at work and school has started up again. I went to register for the official forums tonight and someone has squatted on my nickname. I'm flattered and amused that someone actually cares that much about forum drama.

I must admit I do find it amusing when people do that but you know imitation it the hight of flattery

http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?s=&a...st&p=973231

I wholeheartedly agree to the post above, esp. the bit about people dropping RPGs because the general mood/tone/way of dealing with issues gets on their nerves. Being an old fart and RPG fossil, I remember the early internet days when EVERY RPG article got huzzahs – and if they sucked, they got a "Huzzah, but have you considered approaching this item a little differently, like this". It started with flames against publishers, continued with flames against people sharing their ideas in forums, and flames against RPG bloggers are starting.

In another forum (non-RPG, FPS) people whine about the weak participation of members in the forum, yet whenever I try to get the ball rolling they hammer me down because of some little aspect. So naturally I stopped posting, and ultimately: caring.

After all, this is me free time. Do I really need other people bashing me? I think not.

Often, we argue about what is the most important aspect for a game to be fun. In most cases, we all agree that it's not about the game itself, or the rules, or the setting, not even the GM: It's about the gaming group at the table. You can have GREAT fun playing a game that is, basically, trash – WHEN playing with the right people.

What is true for the gaming table is also true for a roleplaying game system, and ultimately: P&P gaming itself.

Us old farts that started with "1st editions", we had GREAT times playing these, even though games like SR1 or VtM1 or CP2013 or BL23C1 or D&D1 had rules that were broken beyond belief. When the internet came and gave us the chance to get into contact with the publishers and each other, we helped each other fixing our games and systems.

Nowadays, we demand perfect games and wont accept anything less. The publishers are our enemies, and we are not fans, we're angry customers demanding our books get fixed, because we paid for them, ALTHOUGH a growing number of us is NOT paying for them and everybody knows it!! Being accused of all kinds of crimes (errors being the worst of it, apparently), many publishers get defensive – and who can blame them? They try to stay in the business – because it IS a business, please understand and accept that – even though a large number of players see errors as an EXCUSE to download everything for free ("It's not wrong to steal from a corp whose books have bad editing or one that DARES to not speak to the fans!!").

I'm not saying that I have the solution, but I am saying that each and every flame war raging out there or within here is another coffin nail to P&P gaming – because reading just ONE thread like that often will be quite enough to scare an interested n00b away ("I thought about starting to play SR, but the game seems to be totally bad and awful and broken and all fans hate it").

Broken rules will not kill a game or setting.
Otherwise SR would have NEVER survived 1st edition!!!

AAS

Broken rules can kill a game. It's simply a question of which games are the least broken and easily repaired.

Sure SR1 was broken by today's standards but compared to Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (1985) and TORG (1990), Shadowrun was brilliant. It was actually playable, characters survived character generation, and it could handle a decent variety of settings.

Similarly, it could be claimed that Champions was broken but when compared to Heroes Unlimited and Marvel Superheroes, Champions was a work of art.

SR4 deserves it's share of criticism. Yes, complaints about (for example) Arsenal may drive people away, but dang, that book deserves public criticism. If anything should be 4.5ed with whole sections removed or rewritten, it's Arsenal. Maybe then, if/when SR5 comes out, someone sits down and makes some ideas about game balance, such as the relationship between BP, Karma, Nuyen, and Dice and is it a linear or quadratic progression. A simple guideline for that relationship at the start and the game gains a much needed internal consistency.

In doing so, it increases the chance for an SR6 because it makes the product valuable enough to license. Otherwise a competing game that does it get right has a chance to start the genre over having lessons learned and no historical baggage.

I cannot see how Arsenal could ruin a game when the damage code mechanic of SR1 didn't. My first character ever was a troll, and trolls were unkillable by SR1 standards. In the end, I was so frustrated by this (even though it was to my benefit) that my troll would only walk slowly through the main entrance, without any plan, without ever dodging or going for cover, just walking through the corridors to his target destination, acting last in the combat round, sometimes even taking a round or two to mock or taunt the security guards, then shooting them to pulp. Of course he was minmaxed, but in those days before "storytelling systems" that was not considered a crime. It was a feature.

AAS

I just felt like this should be here.