Okay, so I'm moving my runners from sunny Seattle to peaceful Bogota by way of the City of Angels. Horizon is going to be involved every step of the way and I'm thinking that I will end up using them as pawns for the PR machine that Horizon is currently using to help Amazonia against the Big A. I've read through Horizon entries in both the Corp Guide and Corp Enclaves books, but there is almost no direct info given on them. Fill me in with what you know please.
Also, since I haven't been able to find the original thread, can someone please link me to the "discussion" about the War! sourcebook? I have heard rumblings about the mechanics in the book and want to know what exactly is wrong.
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, PLEASE JUST THE LINK!
I don't want to turn this into yet another thread bagging on the CGL, I want to dig through that info on my own. Keep this topic on the Dawkins Group and Horizon please.
Full Version: Dawkins Group
From Corp Enclaves:
They do social engineering, primarily focused on memes. They focus heavily on social skills but they're also quite deadly, spec ops level combat skills but I'd doubt many have the ware to back it up, the ware is just too much of a potential liability for certain social groups. If any group has a direct connection/directly serves the Consensus, it's probably these guys.
These aren't guys who focus on PR and spin, these are guys who try to change fundamental social views. They're not trying to spin the latest Aztech attack for maximum PR effect, they're trying to undermine the very concept of Aztech as having any positive benefit for the people of Bogota.
Also, we may need a new rule,
The first rule of Dumpshock is: don't talk about WAR!
They do social engineering, primarily focused on memes. They focus heavily on social skills but they're also quite deadly, spec ops level combat skills but I'd doubt many have the ware to back it up, the ware is just too much of a potential liability for certain social groups. If any group has a direct connection/directly serves the Consensus, it's probably these guys.
These aren't guys who focus on PR and spin, these are guys who try to change fundamental social views. They're not trying to spin the latest Aztech attack for maximum PR effect, they're trying to undermine the very concept of Aztech as having any positive benefit for the people of Bogota.
Also, we may need a new rule,
The first rule of Dumpshock is: don't talk about WAR!
I thought the first rule was: "If we find a hive of scum and villainy worse than us, we must crush the competition"?
There's pretty much nothing on them in War!, save for an NPC who is actually a rumor of an NPC who may or may not be associated with them and has nothing to do with the region War! details.
The Horizon Group is mentioned in some detail in 10 JAckpointers, Corp Enclaves, Corp Dossier, and Runner Havens.
The Horizon Group is mentioned in some detail in 10 JAckpointers, Corp Enclaves, Corp Dossier, and Runner Havens.
QUOTE (Neko Asakami @ Jul 17 2011, 10:48 PM) 
Also, since I haven't been able to find the original thread, can someone please link me to the "discussion" about the War! sourcebook? I have heard rumblings about the mechanics in the book and want to know what exactly is wrong.
Take your pick.
War, HUH! It's out on pdf
War! Kills Seamen, Please, think of the seamen!
War! feedback on art, layout, fiction, clarity, … fluff., Why we want to buy books rather than a collection of tables.
War, HUH! What the hell's it good for?, Absolutely nothing!
Fan letter to CGL, Because we care
War! Gear & Rules, What's good, iffy, needs fixing or a complete revamp?
Is War! Really that Bad?, Fatum: I moved it here. Let's continue.
Slow Spell questions, From the War! thread...
-k
Wow...uh...that's a lot to digest. Thanks!
Also, so Dawkins is basically a bunch of spooks that go in at the personal level and socially hack an entire population?
Also, so Dawkins is basically a bunch of spooks that go in at the personal level and socially hack an entire population?
I'd say more socially "hack" key groups that influence public opinion.
In Bogota, you might be infiltrating the church or Bogota Libre, or if possible one of their leadership councils. Influence a few key people and they'll influence everyone else.
In Bogota, you might be infiltrating the church or Bogota Libre, or if possible one of their leadership councils. Influence a few key people and they'll influence everyone else.
In Bogota, they're being eaten by the trees, just like everyone else. 
I sadly lack anything to add, save that this is relevant to my interests. I want to send my players behind the Horizon Facade sometime.
Shouldn't it be the the Event Horizon? 
QUOTE (Brazilian_Shinobi @ Jul 19 2011, 08:33 AM)
Shouldn't it be the the Event Horizon?
Yes. Yes it should.
[img]http://www.impawards.com/1997/posters/event_horizon_ver1.jpg[/img]
If Corporate Intrigue starts rolling again any time soon, I use the Dawkins Group in one of my adventure seeds. (Am I allowed to say stuff like that?)
Although I fear that is so often the case with Horizon, my little chapter may raise more questions than answers. : )
At least you'll get reusable stats for some typical ground level DG operatives, although they will be more on the security side of things than the high level social infiltration side.
(Rereading the OP, my adventure is not set in Bogota, and I have no reason to believe that Dawkins Group operations are limited to or tightly focused on that region. As a matter of fact, IIRC Corporate Enclaves discusses Dawkins Group activity in and around LA. Corporate Guide has some info on them too, I believe.)
Although I fear that is so often the case with Horizon, my little chapter may raise more questions than answers. : )
At least you'll get reusable stats for some typical ground level DG operatives, although they will be more on the security side of things than the high level social infiltration side.
(Rereading the OP, my adventure is not set in Bogota, and I have no reason to believe that Dawkins Group operations are limited to or tightly focused on that region. As a matter of fact, IIRC Corporate Enclaves discusses Dawkins Group activity in and around LA. Corporate Guide has some info on them too, I believe.)
Cool. Thanks for the input so far. Except for Brazilian_Shinobi. Puns like that get people shot where I'm from. ^_~
Next questions: Has anyone actually used them in a game, and what for?
I'm planning using them in LA and Bogota as mysterious MIB-type contacts slowly letting my PCs in on the "Conspiracy" while playing on their hopes of getting telesma for magical foci as payment for dealing with some Aztecnology BBEGs. Basically, they're something to keep my face and infiltrator entertained while the more physical part of the group is dealing with the war itself. Details may follow, still working out bugs in the plot.
Next questions: Has anyone actually used them in a game, and what for?
I'm planning using them in LA and Bogota as mysterious MIB-type contacts slowly letting my PCs in on the "Conspiracy" while playing on their hopes of getting telesma for magical foci as payment for dealing with some Aztecnology BBEGs. Basically, they're something to keep my face and infiltrator entertained while the more physical part of the group is dealing with the war itself. Details may follow, still working out bugs in the plot.
QUOTE
Next questions: Has anyone actually used them in a game, and what for?
Actually, yes, in a game centering around a bunch of Horizon Technos trying to liberate AI from NeoNET during a weapons fair in London, by letting loose an infant Horizon AI they briefed on the evilness of humanity in General and NeoNET in particular, which means an arcology lite setting (though most kill-hapy drones are run by the Technos' sprites). The HG get sent there immediatly after Horizon notices their own, a bit misled, Technos are responsible for damage control and to spin this against NeoNET. Oh, the players are a mesh of Seelie and NeoNET operatives.
So in the end, they're the Enemy the players so far (game's still running) haven't realized for enemies yet. I'm looking forward to a duel between the speaker's way mysthad and the mindrape-happy NeoNET drake mage.
I used Dawkins Group in the endgame of our New York campaign. The final plot was basically that the MDC had lost a nuke. The Dawkings Group had engineered a spin where the Neo-Anarchists would be caught with the nuke, and it would come out that the UCAS had helped provide it. This is because of the political play between all these players - the MDC hates the Neo-anarchists and is constantly looking for ways to get rid of them, plus they spar with UCAS spooks trying to get New York to come back into the fold. If the Neo-As were caught with a nuke, the people of Manhattan could be galavanized into supporting a Final Measure regarding them.
It was a carefully engineered plan with years of planning and seeding double agents in key locations, that all went rather bad when an unexpected player (one of the richest man in Manhattan) got wind of it and decided to get involved and take the bomb for himself. Nobody knew this at first, the players were hired by a totally freaked out MDC that realized their little plan had Gone Horribly Wrong. The players actually met an Ares Fireteam coupled with Dawkins operative in an Underground cache where the nuke was supposed to be. The Corps were looking for clues as well. It degenerated and everyone shot everyone (well, mostly the fire team shot everyone) as the Ares boys did not swallow the Dawkins guys might actually have lost the nuke. They assumed the Dawkins guys were making a side play of some sort and were screwing Ares, especially when the PCs unexpectedly turned up. One of the downsides of being known as the hyper manipulative guys is people tend to be paranoid around you.
It was a suitably impressive display of WTF high level powered people.
It was a carefully engineered plan with years of planning and seeding double agents in key locations, that all went rather bad when an unexpected player (one of the richest man in Manhattan) got wind of it and decided to get involved and take the bomb for himself. Nobody knew this at first, the players were hired by a totally freaked out MDC that realized their little plan had Gone Horribly Wrong. The players actually met an Ares Fireteam coupled with Dawkins operative in an Underground cache where the nuke was supposed to be. The Corps were looking for clues as well. It degenerated and everyone shot everyone (well, mostly the fire team shot everyone) as the Ares boys did not swallow the Dawkins guys might actually have lost the nuke. They assumed the Dawkins guys were making a side play of some sort and were screwing Ares, especially when the PCs unexpectedly turned up. One of the downsides of being known as the hyper manipulative guys is people tend to be paranoid around you.
It was a suitably impressive display of WTF high level powered people.
@Backgammon:
That sounds surpassingly cool.
That sounds surpassingly cool.
QUOTE (Backgammon @ Jul 20 2011, 04:51 PM)
I used Dawkins Group in the endgame of our New York campaign. The final plot was basically that the MDC had lost a nuke. The Dawkings Group had engineered a spin where the Neo-Anarchists would be caught with the nuke, and it would come out that the UCAS had helped provide it. This is because of the political play between all these players - the MDC hates the Neo-anarchists and is constantly looking for ways to get rid of them, plus they spar with UCAS spooks trying to get New York to come back into the fold. If the Neo-As were caught with a nuke, the people of Manhattan could be galavanized into supporting a Final Measure regarding them.
It was a carefully engineered plan with years of planning and seeding double agents in key locations, that all went rather bad when an unexpected player (one of the richest man in Manhattan) got wind of it and decided to get involved and take the bomb for himself. Nobody knew this at first, the players were hired by a totally freaked out MDC that realized their little plan had Gone Horribly Wrong. The players actually met an Ares Fireteam coupled with Dawkins operative in an Underground cache where the nuke was supposed to be. The Corps were looking for clues as well. It degenerated and everyone shot everyone (well, mostly the fire team shot everyone) as the Ares boys did not swallow the Dawkins guys might actually have lost the nuke. They assumed the Dawkins guys were making a side play of some sort and were screwing Ares, especially when the PCs unexpectedly turned up. One of the downsides of being known as the hyper manipulative guys is people tend to be paranoid around you.
It was a suitably impressive display of WTF high level powered people.
It was a carefully engineered plan with years of planning and seeding double agents in key locations, that all went rather bad when an unexpected player (one of the richest man in Manhattan) got wind of it and decided to get involved and take the bomb for himself. Nobody knew this at first, the players were hired by a totally freaked out MDC that realized their little plan had Gone Horribly Wrong. The players actually met an Ares Fireteam coupled with Dawkins operative in an Underground cache where the nuke was supposed to be. The Corps were looking for clues as well. It degenerated and everyone shot everyone (well, mostly the fire team shot everyone) as the Ares boys did not swallow the Dawkins guys might actually have lost the nuke. They assumed the Dawkins guys were making a side play of some sort and were screwing Ares, especially when the PCs unexpectedly turned up. One of the downsides of being known as the hyper manipulative guys is people tend to be paranoid around you.
It was a suitably impressive display of WTF high level powered people.
Got a transcript? This sounds suitably epic and is relevant to my interests.
Hmmm, not really. We were playing on skype. But I did encourage the players to post a little bit of fiction, so Redjack has a bit of the story here: http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?show...9903&st=775 (about middle way down the page)
Oh yeah, I omitted to say that, in total freak out mode when they lost the nuke, the MDC needed to start looking for it in Neo-A lands, which means the lower east side. So, they decided to invade the district with NYPD Inc forces. Of course said forces were outfitted with heavy weaponry, APCs and drone arial support. Which is good, cause the Neo-
As have heavy weaponry of their own and aren't scared of a scrape. But the invasion had to happen when the PCs were IN the lower east side, of course. Can't have urban warfare NOT happening in top of the players heads.
Oh yeah, I omitted to say that, in total freak out mode when they lost the nuke, the MDC needed to start looking for it in Neo-A lands, which means the lower east side. So, they decided to invade the district with NYPD Inc forces. Of course said forces were outfitted with heavy weaponry, APCs and drone arial support. Which is good, cause the Neo-
As have heavy weaponry of their own and aren't scared of a scrape. But the invasion had to happen when the PCs were IN the lower east side, of course. Can't have urban warfare NOT happening in top of the players heads.
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