One of the PCs in my group (Star Wars, not Shadowrun) had a binder for his "Character Sheet", due to the amount of... Everything. Backstory, contacts, equipment, ships, the works.

He fought in everything from a Speedo and a Ankle-Holstered Unpowered Knife (Not including explosives and detonators) all the way up to full Power Armor and the latest in Blaster Technology with Underbarrel Grenade Launcher. He also helped set up firebases with just the stock of weapons that was in the "Weapon's Locker" (Called "The Matrix Room" after the movie came out). It was a larger than average ship, and a variant that was made for the rest of the group was used as troop shuttles/base-units for firebases as well.

My character? Heavy pistol with an elongated barrel for better range and a vibroblade, and a Tac-Vest with armour incorporated into it. Anything else I needed I took off the enemy. This was before I got into writing, so I kept things on the down-low.

If going into Shadowrun, I have one character who has an RV equipped with the latest in 19th/early 20th century military rifles, and an almost two century old elephant rifle (And that's his completely legal civilian ride!). Or another character whose sheets are more full of what his vehicles have than weaponry carried.

Most of your points show a lack of understanding of the game system.

1) Magic is powerful, but so is guns, cyberware, and the matrix. There are numerous tools for mundanes to protect themselves from magic, and anyone who seriously needs magic defense will have a magician to provide it. Lets repeat the mantra "The less a GM knows about the magic system, the more powerful it is, the more a GM knows about the magic system, the less powerful it is"

2) Anyone can be a hacker wannabe who uses mooks to do their job. Software and Hardware are both essential skills to handle some of the tasks a good hacker will go up against, and those are logic based. Also those skills get pretty expensive in BP/Karma, not to mention all the qualities you're going to buy to go from a good to a great hacker. Not everyone can be a hacker.

3) a) Biofeedback, b)EVERYTHING can be traced, and c) when you go get found in your van in full VR, you're toast. If you think it's boring don't play one.

4) Please please please don't use the word literally unless you are trying to say something intended to be factually true, and how does having a max body and max strength make a gun too powerful? Trolls are tough, and few things are more scary than a troll adept wielding a pair of weapon foci katana, but they pay for that strength and body, and they get taken down by a stunbolt just as easy as anyone else. Also you know, shaodwrunners. When assault cannons are brought into a situation, SWAT and corporate HRT is usually not that far behind. A holdout pistol filled with narcojet can be just as effective.

Anywho, I think the matrix system works, but it's not presented in a fashion that makes using it easy to learn, the info is kinda all over the place. Also I find that people who know a lot about computers and networking have more trouble with the matrix system, because the matrix 2.0 has many key differences from the old TCP/IP module the internet is based on.

Personally, I enjoy picking equipment for my characters (and that's why I always read equipment chapters of the books right after the basic rules, too). So yeah, my runners are likely to have mods upon mods upon upgrades for their enhancements, but that's only cause I enjoy it; could easily have gone without, and done so when statting the opposition as a GM...

The main difference I'd like to see in a new edition is for the writers to stop trying to make the current timeline emulate current real-life trends. Stop trying to force Facebook into the setting (social-networking in A Fistful Of Credsticks). Or trying to make current 2011 pop stars into 2072 verbs (Lady Gaga in Attitude *shudder*). This whole wireless-networking crap is bad enough. Making the Matrix wireless killed most of the cyberpunk feel of Shadowrun IMHO.

Consistent rules would be awesome too. Or at least some errata support from the company.



Amen!



Isn't that just Saints Row: The Third?
(Warning: NSFW)

Several conflicting answers are not really an answer

And some things have to the best of my knowledge never been answered...for example, where does my icon hang out while hacking a node?


Back to the original topic, does the announcement of a new series of SOTA books (see the GenCon flyer) count as a sign 4th ed is ending?

If you are Hacking a Node (and have yet to enter it), you are in the Matrix, probably "adjacent" to the Node you are Hacking. If you are in a System and are moving from node to node, you are in whatever node you last enterd, while you attempt to hack the next node (assuming they need to be hacked). Some Systems are a single node, after all.



Nope... Just an indication that here will be some SOTA books being published using the Edition 4A Ruleset.

And now show me where in the rules this is spelled out...the way I read it, being outside a node is not even considered in the RAW, you always are considered to be in a node somewhere


Shh, don't disturb my belief in "cum hoc, ergo propter hoc"

Except that would invalidate everything that has ever been published about the Matrix, regardless of the Edition. The Matrix Exists, and the Nodes are points of interest within that greater Matrix. It would be a far poorer world to ignore the fluff descriptions of the Matrix.

Think of it this way... There are a collection of Personal, Local, District, City, Regional, National, Worldwide, and Orbital series of Ever Expanding "Master Nodes" so to speak. Each has its own cluster of Nodes within it, but eash is a part of the next level ousided of it. That is how the Matrix has always been fluffed. Even now.

Your skills still matter, however. (Just not your Logic.)

I have to say I thought that was lame. Why have a universal system of skill+attribute+mods if you make exceptions?

Still for 5e if they are working on it I hope it is 1/2 attribute round down+skill(no cap)+mods like mods don't stack. TN4.

That's why we have Skillwires.
With the absence of combat pools, the need for an expert system has been lessened.
But it's still there and allows a measured use of edge, the one drawback.
But if you can get your pool up in the 20's before needing edge, then it does not matter as much.
Yes, basically, anybody with the money can be a hacker too. If he is ready to make compromises.
In SR3, the only thing that stopped this from happening were the high monetary costs, and, to a lesser extent, the essence cost.
Well, that and Skillwires sucking something fierce in SR3. And Matrix-Deckers sending other Runners on Beer/Pizza-Runs . .

...anybody with the money can also be a sammy (with the same skillwires and maybe an implant or two). Or a rigger. Or anything non-Awakened, really. So this is a non-issue.

Yeah, I like having the option there.

When it came out, I remember we basically stopped playing Shadowrun for a while and had a Session or so of Rigger 3. Which was actually fun.

But I think it works better if things are simpler and the choices few in the core rules.

So maybe a core rulebook character should fit on a page or two, and as the months pile on they expand.

The choices should be few? Can't disagree more. The choices should be many, and each one should give you a brand new shiny ability (or a possibility, or just something cool and flashy)!

Come to think of it, could you please point out a classless system that'd fit your expectations?

Feng Shui?

Savage Worlds might fit as well.

Feng Shui is AWESOME, and extremely versatile.

I have Run Feng Shui: Star Wars, and prepped a Feng Shui: Battletech Game. Even considered a Feng Shui: Shadowrun for those players that want excessive Pink Mohawk. Have yet to do so, though.

What you are describing is the SR 1-3 matrix, with those pictures of light balls floating above a grid. In SR 4, there's nothing about this, neither crunch nor fluff.


Again, please show me which SR 4 book presents this onion model, or any other model of the matrix. And not with any backreferences to SR 1-3, imagine you are a total PnP noob who never heard anything about this matrix thing previously

World fluff does not disappear just because Mechanics change...

As for no experience; I would direct you to see Tron, Johnny Mnemonic, and the Matrix, so that you would be on the same page. It is Not all that hard to train up a Noob...

Actually given that the new Wireless Matrix is described as a completely different beast from what was there before, it's a aspect of world fluff that very well could have changed.


As someone who only played 3e before this and completely avoided the matrix in that edition, I had no idea that the matrix supposedly worked as you described. If it did, it should have been mentioned -somewhere- in the books where it's described. They certainly wasted enough pages on useless fluff they could have slipped that in somewhere.

Perhaps...

@Tymeus: I think you're wrong, with regards to SR4. Every Node is related to a single device, there are no nodes-within-nodes. There really isn't anything in the "space" between them; each one is a little pocket universe that connects directly to others. A persona is always inside a node.

So, to the question of "where are you when you're trying to hack into a node?": you're in another node, perhaps your home node.

---

Anyway, another thing I'd like to see changed in SR5 would be the difference between skill modifiers, bonus dice, dice pool modifiers and what-have-you. Some things get added twice if you split dice pools, others don't - it's awkward. There should be more uniformity in how those things behave.

Perhaps... It is a perfect analogy for AR Hacking, to be sure. For VR hacking, the Matrix is its own "world", Much like Astral Space is. I do not see that just "Dissipating" in the transition from 3rd to 4th Editions. And I still use it. After all, it is only Fluff, and has absolutrely no mechanical effect whatsoever.

I think he was talking about how in older editions magic was really powerful but if you had a street sam with a willpower of 6 due to height (TN 6) and breadth (rolling willpower vs TN [force]) you were much more likely to be fine against mind control spells. In 4e by RAW having a higher willpower isnt the bonus it used to be.



The fluff is pretty much the same in all editions though VR2.0 and 3rd ed tried to avoid talking about system maps and moved from lawnmower man style look to the matrix somewhat.

I must not be understanding the question to "where are you when you're trying to hack into a node?".

You are, by my understanding, there because as you're doing it, you can proceed to get the ether beaten out of you. Behind you, like a digital umbilical cord, lies your traceable connection back to your point of origin. While there, you may not have control over your appearance to those around you yet. To those there actually watching you may first be as defined as a 404 page or a loading screen until you have enough rights to tell them you exist and what you look like.

I've love a rule to back up the above statement, but I doubt I'll find one. It's pure invented fluff anyway.

Indeed... Your Reality Filter defines Your Fluff. In our games, the "Reality Filter" of the Matrix at large is the same as it has always been. In VR, you see the vast matrix via Icons and connections. A "grid" if you will, from which you can Zoom In/Zoom Out on by selecting another node in the chain.

Just as long as you don't have an Agent running that goes "SPAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACE!!!"

Of course it does, because the mechanics are for a completely new matrix. LTG addresses, remote control networks, color codes, and gray IC are gone to name just a few, otaku don't fade any longer and AR is everywhere, those are not just changes in the rules but also in fluff.

And by the same token, the fluff questions I posed are directly related to game mechanics -- if my persona is standing right next to the node I'm hacking, that means a police patrol might spot me just like during a RL burglary.


Well, that's a nice houserule, but not at all supported by rules or described in the fluff of SR4(A). And if understanding the current rules requires reading past books or watching movies, that means something is seriously wrong with them. A core rulebook is supposed to give players all the info they need to play.

Also, a reality filter can't bend the rules. Your filter might tell you that RC networks are still separate from the matrix, but that won't stop a hacker from taking over your drones.

Are you kidding? That guy is my comlink's IC!

The Matrix, as a descriptive, Exists as it always has... use it or don't.

Then for the third time, please tell me where to find that descriptive in the 4(A) rulebooks.

Oh man, don't tell me he's Psychotropic IC and overwrites the person's personality to be like that!

As you can see, when in the Matrix, you are not always in a Specific Node. As such, there MUST be other places in the Matrix OTHER THAN NODES, as indicated above. Landscapes are not Nodes, but do contain the Nodes (Portals to such systems). Again. Pretty self-explanatory that the matrix is not just Nodes.

Does this help you at all?

The MCT host (or node in current terminology) is a complete medieval village, that sound pretty much like a landscape to me. And Deus had a complete forest in his node


The way I interpret the current rules, the idea is to always be in a node. From there you can either "beam" into another node which allows open access (if you know the access ID or have link/portal), or move to another node for which the current one acts as a chokepoint. See also the description of portals and matrix movement in Unwired.

Problem is, my interpretation also is just puzzled together from various sources in different books. There is no description saying "there are RTGs, LTGs, and PLTGs, several LTGs connect to one RTG and hosts and PLTGs connect to an LTG like this".
Just to be clear, I don't think the SR3 matrix is better, IMO the relaunch was long overdue and for the better. It's just that the old system was significantly better documented.

Of course it was . . you try and document a wireless mesh network with mobile nodes, i dare you!
Also, first generation technicians do the whole build-up. then do documentation on it.
Next generation generally doesn't learn from documentation, but from 1st generation technicians.
And then they do less, if any, documentation at all. And this, right here, is basically the sole reason for that.

Agent, no. Real life alert tone for text messages, yes.

Along with a spliced together .wav of various turret "hello" phrases as the main ringtone...

Just to add my two cents to the bank, I base my view off a couple of nuggets in the book. In particular the bit about routers on SR4A 218. First thing to note is that there's no way I can see this working real-world, but this is a game so...

Every matrix-capable device has a separately coded router. (quit boggling, that's fluff as written.) Each router has, basically, two options: Accept or Forward. There is no Reject on this sub-device. Accept is access to the device/node to which it is attached. Forward is its contribution to the ad-hoc mesh network.

I picture the routers providing the terrain - the raw ground, the sidewalk, the street, whatever - on which the sculptures of the nodes are built. While getting from my commlink to yours I may step on the ground of a thousand others, but virtually I merely give us a shared door through which we speak, pass messages and files, and so forth. In some cases I may actually enter another node. I drag a "silver cord" (non SR standard myth of astral walking) to my home node while doing so, and this cord leaves a mark everywhere it passes.

Matrix-space being what it is, in some cases the supporting ground may be contained within as well as outside some nodes. (Klein would have been delighted, and boggled.) Those with the wherewithal to grok the multidimensional aspect take advantage of it, slipping in and out of other nodes to their benefit (obscuring trails, making searches more effective, etc.) Most who work with the matrix instead treat it as a standard 3d space where doors come close on call, and the ground itself is ignored.

Again, that's the interpretation I get based on fluff as written. I could be wrong.

Now I want those as my ringtones.

...

I'd need a cellphone first.

Total Recoil Comp:5 (2 internal-IIRC, 1 for each of sling, foregrip and shockpad---also not sure sling and foregrip can contribute together).

Full 10 round burst Recoil modifier is: -5
Long burst is a -1
All others are absorbed.

Almost. There was quite a discussion about this a while back.

As per the definition above that all active mode nodes are routers, yes. They provide both the VR and AR. An interesting point that comlinks not in active mode are not getting most of the AR around them.

Missed that. I'll have to go looking. (May have been before I logged on, of course.)


Nice point, but with the caveat from SR4A 218 that

hmmm. Makes me think that if a player has set their system to hidden, they should be getting a multitude of penalties as a reflection of:

After all, the things are supposed to be providing support all the time.

Except that those bonuses you talk about above are for the actor. Ideally, you should be using a Tacnet instead, which does not rely upon the Mode that you are in.

Well, I'd say that tacnet isn't much use in the non-combat phases. You know, face time and investigation time and all that sort of thing that goes into role (vs roll) play?

And how is having an AR Schematic going to change that? Will it make the Face more convincing? I highly doubt that it will.

I'll bet that one of the things the AR provides is a Farley File, and I guarantee that makes the Face more convincing. More accurately, and reflected in my recommendation of a negative if it isn't on, is that the ARs provide everyone a farley file and not using one makes a person more likely to commit minor gaffes.

In case you don't know, farley files are named for the device created by James Farley for FDR. Basically, every person with whom FDR dealt, who he ever met, got the critical details entered in a file. Before FDR met the person, Farley would put the file sheet in front of FDR for a quick perusal. Thus he'd know of the visitor's wife, maybe that the daughter had entered college. Not every detail, just the things a good friend would know and use in casual conversation.

If everyone uses farley files, and the face uses them better, then the face who does NOT use one is handicapping himself as much as a street sam who doesn't use tacnet.

The downside to hidden mode is not getting those AR bonuses. You don't get a penalty for hidden mode, you just don't get benefits.

For what it's worth, if I were interviewing a squad of criminal mercenaries (or mercenary criminals, however you want to look at runners) and they inexplicably knew the names of my wife and kids and details of our lives, I'd be more tempted to have them all shot on general principles than to hire them. There really is such a thing as too much information.

And a good face is going to know how much to say and what not to say. I used it as an example of the sort of thing your AR should be able to provide with not much tweaking that was a specific aid to the face. I'll point out that if the only place your face plays is the interview he's losing out on a lot of opportunities.

This is where the face's skill of using them better comes in.

And of course, communicating with a Johnson, you never let on to knowing who he is. This is the kind of thing used by social infiltrators. You have a hard time getting around pretending like you belong, if you don't know who actually belongs.

Edit: ninja'ed for typing too much!

Possible. I wager, however, that most GMs never remember to give the bonuses. Not least because they haven't thought through the assistance an always-on infoweb CAN provide even before specialized emotisoft or tacsoft or other *soft gets added. The easiest way i can think of to apply it is just create a general -1 in all cases where the mode is set to hidden UNLESS a specific circumstance (like tacsoft) overrides it.