anti air artillery that usually can't even hit a hex(field of 30m diameter) . . yeah, i got nothing <.<

Yeah. I believe the modifier is +5 for flak, with a flat range (no penalties) of 18 hexes out, so 9's with average gunners.

I'd say when compared L1 tech, IS designs like the Pillager or Nightstar reach the same level of "lolwut"...

Well, StarLeague was that much better . . but yes, there is not that much of a difference, really <.< . .
And i still say the Awesome is one of the most awesome mechs ever. And better than an Atlas of the same era

They were in the original Technical Manual and first TROs, though.


Actually, no. In Airmech mode, you're a GROUND target if you land at the end of every turn. 2 move to launch, 11 to actually move, 2 more to land. 5/6/15 was plenty to hit that "11 hexes moved" line, plus the Jump penalty. Anti-air weapons would be as useful against a LAM as against a Catapult with JJets.

You're only an Air target, and subject to FLAK, if you stay in the air (and begin operating as an aircraft).

A LAM in Airmech mode that lands at the end of every movement, is just a Battlemech with tripled Jump points (hence, 5/8/15, instead of 5/8/5).

A LAM in Airmech mode is treated as a WiGE, and subject to Flak. Apparently they hover on the ground? I don't know. Personally I love the things, they combine my two favorite things growing up (big robots and fighter jets), but the whole 'hahaha! I can shoot you and never be hit back, EVER!' thing just never really appealed to me, and as it turned out, only existed when cobbling together house rules and ignoring other rules.

Fuckin run on sentence.

I have no idea where you get this from. Years of playing BT, including back when LAMs were not yet extinct ... and you are the first person I have ever heard who has suggested that LAMs not in full flight are subject to flak.

You're also the first source I've heard claim that ArrowIVs could be used as flak - unless you mean, specifically, the Air-Defense Arrow missile, which is only available starting in 3068 ...? Anyway, those are for use against targets in the Low Altitude Map ... meaning, "in full flight", not merely jumping a long distance. And also, those are a very specific variant Arrow IV, used only by Capellan "Death Commando" forces. Which is to say, "they were/are bloody rare".

Finally, while a LAM in Airmech mode can move like a WiGE, it is not always a WiGE. Nor are WiGEs always subject to flak, anyway.


Not ever, just "roll 12's or don't bother trying". Also, the weight of the conversion gear, the absolute guarantee that you'll devote a chunk of tonnage to JJ, and the special susceptibility to crits in the RT/LT ... yeah.

After all the other "required" things clamoring for tonnage, a Medium LAM had the firepower of a light mech. Sure, it was hard as heck to hit. But it couldn't do much BACK, either. Most people I played with, used them more as scouts and spotters than actual combat units.


No, not the case in my experience. Penalty because the target jumped (which the LAM also suffers, but oh well). Then, penalty for the blazing speed (11+ hexes at once, yowza). The net is ... hmmm, IIRC, +3 for jumping, +3 or +4 for distance, so +6 or +7. A basic-competence gunner with a pulse laser at short range? Base 4, -1 for pulse, +6 for taret movement, maybe +1 for the shooter walking ...TN 10, on 2d6. Not impossible at all to shoot a LAM, it's just unlikely a lot of shots will hit - just unlikely enough, too, that BIG weapons, especially with limited ammunition (e.g., AC/20's) were less likely to even be attempted against a LAM. Lasers, though? Yeah, lots and lots; pulling THAT trigger only "costs" heat buildup.

Tro 3085 put the rules back in the game. Battletech compendium had the rules for arrow flak. Movement mods were at 3, 5, 7 and 10. Jump adds a 1, meaning an 11 jump gets a 5 mod. Usually adding terrain and range though, so your numbers are pretty close, considering they're from memory.

Let's just assume equal cheese, and have the lam fight a clan tarcomp lpl boat. 3 gun, -2 pulse, -1 tc so if you jumped 11 Nd landed 6 hexes out, he'd need... A 5.

Again, this is why I like playing box set/ level 1 for anything not a roleplaying game. Things get stupid quick, and then there's an arms race of stupidity.

it gets even worse with the new armor types <.<

I just remember kicking the heads off of people with an LAM.

My gaming group made me stop playing them.

(Look up how a ramming attack is made, if the ramming mech is one level above the target)






-k

That was one of the more popular methods of using the LAM. rolling a kick on the punch hit location means a 1 in 6 chance of a head shot.

Patch today.

WARNING ... Double Heat Sinks are NOT working. You know my AWS build above, with 32 single heat sinks? I switched over to DHS, managed to find room for 19 of them (11 in the engine, 8 in torso/arms). Nominally, my heat efficiency is almost 1.6 - but in practise, it's more like 0.6. She overheats like a teenager in a porn shop. >:P Which is to say, "the next thing to instantaneously".

They added the Cicada and a "hero" variant of the Centurion, though.

Plus, Endo Steel & Ferro-Fibrous.

Also I see CanRay in game. Should I kill him?




-k

Obviously.

You know ... we need to form up a Unit of our own.

I've got a Ventrilo server, 10 slots, I could donate to the cause. It's already paid-for, for the next six months ...

Heh, I'd be in for some group games.

We could even call ourselves "Shadow Regiment" or similar. Which coincidentally has the initials SR.




-k

Unfortunately ... the past day or so has convinced me, MWO is probably not a good game for me. I really dislike the direction the developers are taking some things (LRMs overpowered, DHS underpowered, premade pugstomping, not enough maps or gameplay modes, no integrated VOIP even though the nature of the game REALLY calls for it ...), and the attitude of the rest of the community is ... yeah.

It's been a love/hate thing enough already, so ... I may poke around at it some more, but I think I'm done, after all.

I guess most of the problems with the game dont bug me as much as it does some people, but I guess its becasue I just dont get to play as much as I did when Beta first started so when I get time to play I still have fun.

The community is kind of crap at times, very negative overall, thats one of the reasons I usually dont care about what most other people post on the forums, I read what they say but its all the same recycled BS.

Well if you do stay away I'm sorry to see you go though we've not met on the battlefield. Losing a player is always a bad thing imo.

Well, sorry ya feel that way. I would have liked to have grouped with folks here.

LRMs have been buffed and nerfed multiple times so far in Beta. I dunno if they'll stay the way they are, but I agree they seem a little TOO effective right now. Hopefully they get toned down, and things will also likely change when ECM goes in.

Double heat sinks are confirmed to be bugged. They show up fine in Mechlab but act as single heatsinks in game.

Matchmaking will eventually preferentially place premades vs premades and PUGs vs PUGs, but currently does not work.

There are supposed to be at least four more maps being worked on, and a couple of other gameplay modes.

There IS a VOIP system the game interfaces with, the C3 voice client. It is a seperate install for now but starting a group in game automatically puts everyone in the group in a shared voice channel on C3 if they have it installed. Eventually C3 will be integrated into the core client but right now they're focusing on other stuff.

As for the community, it seems to be getting steadily worse as they let more and more people in. I dunno how they'd fix that.



-k

The ability to choose teams/units/clans/whatever, probably.

Shadow regiments... Im pretty sure those are canon somewhere. Memory is fading. I know the ghost regiments were/are real DCMS units.

Oh, thats it. Shadow Regiments were a WoB invention. Stupid wobblies.

The Wobblie version did not appear til the 3070s, though, and were called 'shadow divisions', not 'shadow regiments'.

There were "shadow regiments" (lowercase) which were DCMS units made up to look like other units. The problem is that treaties at that time limited the number of units the Draconis could officially field. They actually fielded more units than they were allowed to, of course, and would constantly change the markings of these extra units, claiming they simply were transferring in "legal" units from other battlefronts. Things being as chaotic as they were nobody could double check if this was really the truth.

Sounds like shadowrunners, huh?



-k

Somewhat ironically, the DCMS' "illegally"-large military is probably the only thing that saved them from the Clans: they had the defense-in-depth to accept the kind of hideous losses/attrition, that no other House could have paid and survived.

And the DCMS' survival, was in turn integral to the Inner Sphere's eventual victory over the clans.

And if the clans invaded from the other half of the sphere, we'd all be speaking clanner!

Stupid Davs/mariks/liao.

I don't know about that, but, their drive towards Terra would certainly have taken them father before ComStar could muster forces for a Tukayyid ploy on that side of things. I doubt the Capellans could have resisted the Clans as well as Rassalhague (barely) did, and I'm dead certain that Marik would have simply collapsed in the face of a Clan invasion (with lots of sub-sections simply surrendering / defecting / "seeking a separate peace"), where the DCMS were willing and able to accept high enough losses to make the cost of expansion high enough to slow the clans on a purely economic basis. Marik lacks unity, and Liao lacks depth / economic might.

The Davion half of FedCom would probably have fared about the same as the Steiner half did, though. Those two players were always fairly evenly matched - Davion with slightly better tech, Steiner with slightly better industry.

But basically, Liao and Marik space would have been a huge, DEEP penetration of Clan forces.

ShadowTech BattleRunners?

-Tir

In other news: Open Beta

Whee, time to get facestomped!

You're completely wrong Pax. Total War page 114 defines the flak code (F) and lists WiGE as among the airborne targets suffering from it.

TacOps p184 lists all the artillery on the chart... ArrowIV unguided are listed with the (AE) and the (F) codes. The rules on p185 further verify this with artillery rules for use as AAA (anti-aircraft artillery).
The rules don't appear to have changed much if at all from prior editions on this score. Prior editions also allowed flak rules against VTOLs and artillery to be used as AAA.

The special anti-air round is a guided 20point round, not an area flak attack. It's irrelevant to the other posters point and is an experimental ammo round.

That said... I don't think they published the full rulebook with LAM stuff in it... just some little TR sheet with some abbreviated rules right? I haven't picked up any BT stuff in a while. Just the 4 core rulebooks plus the RPG.

I miss my erased Mechs... The Trial Mechs "Loaners" often need to be push started, and either the heater or the A/C never works in them!

I love getting face rolled hard. On the other hand, I've discovered that I have a wee bit of talent when it comes to piloting the Raven. Figure a Commando is probably gonna be my first Cbill purchase, with a Hunchy following that up. I do really, really wish that they had a "eff off on the map and just practice running around/aiming" mode. Would be nice to sit down and actually master the controls, how to change my weapons groups, etc. without the pressure of having to get moving to go scout for the team.

If anyone doesn't mind playing with a noob, feel free to add tarksosin as a friend.

Edit: Having decided to stop trying to play like it's a typical FPS, and moving with the edge of a pack while scouting the sides, I've been finding a bit more success. I actually got a kill with my trial Raven!

Also, cresting a hill to be greeted by 3 Atlases, 2 Centurions and a Hunchback while driving a Raven is an oh drek moment. Can you say U-turn and let my team's Atlases know that they're all sitting in a canyon at F4?

I'd save up a bit more and get a Jenner, rather than a Commando.

Also, I've noticed far less Streak Cats lately. Which is amusing, since I've become a convert to the 2 LRM, 4 Streaks Cat.

I'm sure they don't have them (being invisibles) but I'd much rather have an LRM20 Archer than a Cat. Archers are just great mechs.

... post-dates the last time I had a group to play BTech with. That'd explain the difference in rules-understanding.

@X:
Unseen, not Invisible . .
Well, there was that one Archer piloted by Morgan Kell . .

Right, always get that term mixed up. There were a couple of famous pilots who used Archers. They are solid machines. Although I recall one pilot turning his into a laser boat.

Look up Phantom Mech on Sarna.net < =
And read the Novels, they are awesome.

Famous Archer Pilots are Morgan Kell, Jaime Wolf and the SON of Grayson "Death" Carlyle . .


And of course they would, Laser-Boats are distilled awesome, as long as there are enough heat-sinks available . .
The Hunchback 4P and 5P are some of the most fearsome mechs in existence . .

I've been playing since closed beta but I'm still kind of noob-ish my self and and been looking for more people to drop with so I think I will add you if that is OK.

The really amusing part, for those who are familiar with Macross, is that the LRM launchers on the Archer are actually housed an LMG and multi weapon system (It was also named the Gladiator and was meant to be a Hand to Hand mech).

That said, I want to field an Archer and name it the Sterling.

i love "Do you remember Love" the Macross Movie . . which was Retconned to have been a CINEMA MOVIE IN THE UNIVERSE OF MACROSS!
Which then got a Second Part . . technically . . but was not a Movie IN THE UNIVERSE . . @.@

And yes, the Archer with the Combat-Fists is a really scary version . .
Especially, if you add TSM and replace LRM with CLRM or SRM . .

Wait, wait wait, people have modded Archers for CQC? Blasphemy! Not on my missile boat!

Well, the closest you can get in a canon variant is one with the normal laser weaponry and 4xMML5's instead of 2xLRM.
Or the Archer with Clan-Tech, because CLRM does not have minimum reach . .
In Canon, i don't think there is a single variant with TSM, but there are several that have smaller LRM Racks and instead pack some SRM Racks to help with close range threats . .

And why not?
SRM-Missle-Boat is formidable!
One of the best variants of the Daishi for example has FOUR STREAK SRM 6 Racks!
That's an almost assured 6x4x2=48 points of damage with good crit seeking and chances for pilot damage . .

I don't think you understand Pax... WiGE were only added with Total War. (and maybe one late prior edition tech toys book... but again they were treated as vtols for targetting).

The flak rules for targetting (including arty) were in prior editions. I was only verifying that they were still in the latest edition.



Oh well, logged in saw they actually invited me into the closed beta and never saw the email... oh well.

Anyhow... looking at a F jenner as a first purchase... (2mil in the bank after a night of play). Is there any way to bring heat dissipation down to meaningful levels?! With the raven with just a mere 2 ML... the sucker overheats like a pig. I'd hate to see what 4 ML do on 10hs...

Signed up for open beta. Gonna see for myself what this thing is like.

Seems like they'll be implementing 3rd Person Perspective soonish . .

Did they tone down the C-bill earnings? I've only been getting about 50-60K per mission in the trainer mechs, and I'm dying to get into a hunchback.

Yeah, they did.
And they made repairs more costly, as far as i know . .

As soon as they install a 3rd person perspective. I'm gone. It's one of the worst implementations ever to come out of console first person shooters.

It utterly breaks the experience and is a huge benefit. It's hard enough already to fight big mechs in something small like a jenner. Half the time you rely on their confusion on not knowing where you are in their back. That kind of situational awareness just makes it even easier for big stuff to blow light stuff to hell in a single salvo. It's not like the board game where speed is life and makes most of the stuff miss... this is a twitch game where missing is the exception to the rule.

If you have a good ping at least . .
If you have a BAD ping, then you have to lead even shots with laser weaponry . .
Because the NetCode/Engine are not up to snuff to deal with this kind of stuff it seems.

Just broke one million C-bills. Torn on whether to get a classic COM-2D Commando or save toward a Jenner.

I'm trying to think of a reason why they would reduce C-bill payouts other than to make buying MC more attractive, and I'm drawing a blank. Is it really a naked cash grab, or am I missing something?