You forgot Shuriken/throwing Knifes .
You get a Helluva Bonus to hit when You have wireless shuriken.
And I wonder what happens if a Hacker Hacks them....

with a Helluva Dance
Medicineman

*Shakes Head* The absurdity of it all.

naaaahhh
What was it that Wolverine would say ....
"You ain't seen nuthin' yet, Bub"
(because I bet a Dollar that CGL won't disappoint us with inventing even bigger absurdities )

Hough!
Medicineman

Oh, I got a good one....
Now Recoil is per person, not per weapon !
And carries over to the next Iniphase !
That means if I have (f.E.) an Ingram Smart X (with recoil 5) in my right hand an an Ares Predator in my left and shoot 10 Bullets from the ISX in my first Iniphase
and in my next iniphase I shoot my Ares Predator I'm at -6 (-5 from the Ingram Smart X and -1 from the AP ) Dice
to Hit
(Or didn't I read the RAW correctly ? please tell me I'm wrong, please, please !)

with a hopefully wrong Dance
Medicineman

I think that's right, but it resets whenever you take an action that's not shooting. So first phase shoot the Ingram for an FA burst, then second phase, take aim with the Pred before shooting and boom, no recoil.

Recoil is per person, not per weapon -- which makes sense, because your arms aren't independently operating drones that don't affect each other.

Resetting recoil requires an action phase not shooting -- not just one action. So take a turn to go defensive, chuck a grenade, reload, punch a dude, whatever, then your recoil resets.

yeah, that's another example of unclear writing. the freelancers have clarified that taking any simple action in between shooting is intended to reset your recoil.

can we get back on topic please?

Well, as long as your Recoil Compensators are Wireless Enabled, you should be okay.

So did this idea die?

no, worse.

it is multiplying.

everyone wants to fix the problem in a different way.

My favorite Wireless bonus.

Trauma Patches.
Wireless: Instead of making a test, the patient is automatically
stabilized immediately.

I plan on shooting PCs way into overflow, slapping a Trauma patch on em, then ask, "You had Wireless completely disabled right?"

its not the patient that has to be wireless . Only the Patch !

with a wireless Dance
(as a free Action)
Medicineman

Bricking the Bandages (Trauma Patches)

hmmmmm

I kind of like the idea of the nanite swarm in the trauma patch that can connect to a proto-AI in a server farm somewhere to improve effectiveness of treatment so much that any sort of adverse situation is compensated for effortlessly.

not sure if serious . .

I won't dispute that it's goofy but how else do you rationalize a lump of chemical impregnated adhesive gauze working better when it can connect to the matrix?

I just don't know anymore. I'm honestly wondering if wireless bonuses should just be switched out for a computer+logic (1) test. 'Hey guy, you successfully used google! Have a bonus!'

Because instead of just dumping all chemicals it has into the patient and hopes for the best it transmits the data it collects to a database which picks out the right combination?

You mean with the wireless-enabled nanobots on the patch, right? Oh wait...

And whats that supposed to mean?

The mechanism for releasing the right amount of drugs calculated by the Googl-sorry, the Matrix? It's a patch. It's literally a piece of fabric slathered with drugs? (with and RF transmitter in it for some god-forsaken reason)

And a rifle is a muzzle loader which you manually fill first with black powder and put a lead ball in it.

I don't see how the word "patch" automatically means a low tech fabric strip instead of a plastic strip with several chambers of chemicals which can be opened separately by remote command and a very basic scanner for pulse etc. Especially considering the price tag of a trauma patch.

500 yen? Yes, that is terribly expensive given that you can also get a rating 2 medkit for the same price with it's own expert system! Crazy. Wonder why the slap patch couldn't have it's own expert system for that price? No one will ever know.

Because the patch is still supposed to be small, easily applied and a consumable item so it would take up unnecessary space and reduce the profit margin of the manufacturer. Why put an expert system on every patch instead of just a transmitter and maintain a database?

A database that couldn't been installed with the patch, right? Or in the case of medkits, 'Rating 3 or lower medkits can fit in a pocket.'

It could, see the rating 3 medkit.
But that would cost more in production. And, a medkit also needs a wireless connection to operate on its own, something the trauma patches are supposed to do by design.

So without wireless:
Limit expert systems can provide good guesses and advise, but are not 100% effective and/or still need a trained medical person to make decisions.

When wireless:
They have access to much better expert systems which are too power hungry/not cost effective to put on the patch/medkit itself and a huge medical database enabling the kit/patch to operate itself.

That looks fine to me. I agree that some wireless bonuses are silly, but that one imo isn't.

If your glass of water is wireless connected, you get a +1 Dp bonus to drink it.

sorry about all the RFID tags though.

How many times do i have to ask people to get back on target. This topic is not supposed to be a bitch about the lame wireless bonus rules. I agree they suck. We are supposed to be talking about Tacnet rules here.

I bet having a less controversial and more focused thread header would go a long way towards that. Who'd have thunk it?

so you did not read the whole header eh?

Lofi reader, so sue me. It still looks like this even if you back your words up afterwards.

I think part of the problem is that you've been looking to enforce a design ideal, rather than discuss one - which says to anyone who doesn't completely agree with your notion of the design goals that their suggestions are not welcome. That's NEVER a good way to get brainstorming going.

When you go in directions that make absolutely no sense I am going to call you on it.

I am still waiting for the answer to the question do you plug your computer into the raw internet or do you use a router? Why would you expose your cyberware to the raw matrix? Does that seem wise to you? There are basic computer security methods one should use. and those methods would not change. Because it makes financial sense to make one piece of hardware that is hardened vs. attack and route everything else through that. Rather than creating many avenues of attack. You also would not rely on the matrix to connect all of your cyberware together. That is beyond dumb. You would wire it together internally. It is way more expensive to include a radio into every piece of cyberware and have it route all of the data for controlling it via the matrix. Sorry the round trip time alone would be longer than sending data down the internal wire.

And my topic I can set the parameters.

First, you better believe that those parameters can and will shift on you - nobody gets to control the direction of a discussion, and if you want any good brainstorming to happen, you NEVER make the attempt to do so. And you don't get to be the arbiter of sense. Besides, in brainstorming, you don't say an idea doesn't make sense; that's not helpful. You wait until you have a reasonably developed idea before you look at the question of what you have to do to make it make sense. Note the difference.

And guess what: Slaving is like putting your gear behind a router. If that's the issue to you, then clearly an integral part of the fix is to expand slaving for security purposes. Further, saying that interconnection between isn't a grounds for wireless bonus doesn't mean that there can't be a grounds. For example, there's a lot of reasons why you'd want a visual sensor like cyber-eyes to get online (aspects of distributed computing can come into play to dramatically alter the algorithms that can be used, for example, and external data can allow for something like SR4's Sensor Software but better).

That said: A built-in wireless transceiver in 2074 is gonna be cheap as hell (look at RFIDs), and now that nano-surgery is gone wiring everything together inside your body has gotten a lot more difficult. And given the level of security in SR5's Matrix (a person has to basically be of genius intelligence, furnished with very expensive equipment, and have a highly uncommon set of skills in which they are quite good to be a threat to your ware - or they have to be a technomancer, which is a hell of a lot rarer).

One of the most important things: You're applying modern paradigms. Stop - they are not relevant. The entirety of computing technology, and computer security, was burned to the ground and built back up from scratch TWICE. Other than very high level concepts (which do NOT favour your argument), nothing can be assumed to be the same.

You really can't. That is the issue.

Obviously, in SR5, you plug directly to the Matrix.

I am still wondering where the idea comes from that a trauma patch is just a piece of fabric and glue.
Do people also believe that putting a cork into bullet wounds counts as healing?

Depends, is the cork running with wireless on?

Of course it has.
It even has a Smartlink for those situations where you really want to impress when opening a bottle of champagne.

The problem is when you turn on wireless on your cyber eyes they are now an avenue for hacking. Turn on the wireless on your wired reflexes oo another door. and it does not matter if the item is slaved. Because the inherent quality to wireless is that just like wifi All you need to hack the network is to have one item have a flaw in its software or hardware and you are open to hacking. Slaving will do ABSOLUTELY nothing to prevent that. Physically wiring things together is the only way to insure security. you plug your comlink into your datajack. And that is how you get connectivity and security for your cyberware. Any other method leads to massive security risk and is outright stupid and no shadowrunner would do it any other way. sorry. You can keep trying to sell the idea to me but it will always fall flat on its face for the simple reason more wireless transmitters mean more ways to get hacked. And only an idiot would open themselves up to that kind of hacking. Slaving does not fix the problem.

Fundamental security methodology will not change. It has not changed in thousands of years. The premise of 5th on wireless is flawed at its core. Think about it... The claim is we want to make things more hackable. So we are going to force a flawed security model on the player base to make gear more hackable... And then you are going to try and claim the security is fine. It obviously is not fine because the goal is to make things more hackable. Your logic is circular and flawed at its very core and prove my thinking is actually the method that would be used. Not 5ths. Because a corporation sure as hell is not going to rewrite the matrix to make it less secure for their security teams...Which is just what you are trying to sell.

Fundamental security methodology is to find the balance point between vulnerability and usability. If you gain enough benefit from setting your cybereyes to wireless, fundamental security methodology says you do it, and secure it as best as you can.

It's less secure in one way, but more secure in another. The number of daisy-chained commlinks sporting a dozen agents has gone down to zero, meaning the ratio of potential threats to credible threats approaches 1. That is, anyone that's detected as a potential threat (performs illegal matrix action) is very likely a credible threat and should be dealt with appropriately. This allows limited security resources and responses to be very focused. GOD is slow but inevitable -- 10 or so decent matrix defense rolls will likely bring the hammer down, which generally means deckers won't be hanging out in your host all day running the show like in olden times.

Regarding gear, corporations have hosts they can have their personnel slave their gear to, centralizing all their matrix security and providing overwatch from comfy chairs. Actually this puts the security personnel at a distinct advantage compared to a team of runners who has to carry matrix security around with them.

Maybe I have to reread the hacking chapter but I don't see how this is true in SR5.
While you may have several devices slaved to the same comlink or deck, getting one of them hacked doesn't mean that the others become more vulnerable. They still defend with the comlinks firewall like before. The only downside is that the hacker also gets marks on your comlink.

I do understand the desire to discard the daisy chaining stuff, though yeah, the problem I potentially see is more through the introduction of hosts. Any location worth hitting has a host that can provide benefits equal or better to a fairlight. Which then suddenly makes it less possible for the decker on the ground to brick things anyway if they're slaved to the host. Just as runners slave their gear to their decker, so can security grunts to their host/spider/decker. And even if the decker is slightly less skilled, they're running equal or more dice than the PC.

More vectors for someone to exploit. Just like a house with more doors and windows means more possible ways for a person to get into your house.

Slaving your gear to something is not going to make that gear more secure. Sorry. If their is a vulnerability in your hardware a hacker can exploit. Slaving it will not change that.

And there is no new functionality in the cyberware that would require matrix access. No amount of stamping your feet is going to change that. All of the functionality existed with out matrix access 3 years earlier.

And you still have not answered my question. Probably because you know I am right.

Exploit, yes. Exploit easily, no.

A local corporate host can easily have Firewall 10, which is yards better than other devices. Slave yourself to the Firewall 10 host, and voila, your gear is more secure.



20 years ago wired reflexes let you act 3 times in combat before anyone else could act. Explain that change.

Mechanical changes don't always (and in this case don't) represent in universe changes - and in a few cases, there's some minor retcons. The standard/throwback functionality is, in-setting, all the functionality they had, and the wireless stuff is new. Taking away functionality on a meta level only to add it back with the wireless bonuses is a poor implementation, but don't try to pretend it exists as an in-world shift.

And I didn't SEE any question. Looked back at that post, and still don't.