Yeah., GUARDS should wear it at least.
And Corpers if they leave their enclave.
But that doesn't help against extraction.
Makes it easier in fact, since the squishies don't die thast fast anymore.
AssAssination Targets should wear one often too, yes.

Maybe in your games, but not in ours. We tend to see a lot of variability. Though FFBA is still in there, of course.
I particularly like the Teg-mentem Holowear.

It does indeed make you hot and sweaty. Especially if you are stacking with additional armor on top (which you can do in real life. ).

*sigh* of course. I hope this is taken in a light-hearted joking way, but I'd like to name a logical fallacy after you.

TJ fallacy:
A specific problem in a game is not really a problem if your table just ignores the problem or makes up reasons why it's not a problem through role-playing.

Ex: "Yeah, I told Joe that using a rocket launcher in SR4 was stupid because of the messed-up scatter rules, but he totally threw down a TJ fallacy and said his table has never had a problem with them."

#Win

Edit:
Looking at already existing fallacies, this one likely falls under Argument from (personal) incredulity ("I cannot imagine how this could be true, therefore it must be false").

TJ Fallacy? Awesome....

Lets go with that. Do I get any Royalties?

Though I have to say that such arguments are not because we ignore the problem or make up stuff to explain the problem. We just do not abuse it to the nth degree, and because of that, it is NOT A PROBLEM. There are a LOT of Edge Cases, in pretty much any game you may choose to pick up. These cases can be exagerated through heavy optimization to the Nth degree (Some call that Rules Rape, others call it logical optimization... there are many terms for it). I have found that if you just don't abuse the rules to eeek out that last erg of optimization, then that edge case actually does not cause issues. As a result, where others cry foul, and complain of the rampant brokenness of the rules, I am quite happy with the results, and tend to have far fewer headaches (usually migranes, when they DO occur) than other players of said game. That being said, I CAN abuse rules with the best of them, and have done so from time to time to prove a point, but it is not my preferred gaming method.

That being said, there are issues with the game, and I voice them from time to time.

I hear you man. You seem like a great player, and I'd be proud to be in any game you were in.

But having said that, I think your awesome group of players at your table has somewhat blinded you to the fact that sometimes the rules can and should be improved, regardless of how the players at your table use these rules. Just because your table doesn't experience certain problems doesn't invalidate what might be possible using those said rules.

<whining>aw comeon, I want to name one all on my own!

Can we compromise? Argument from TJ?

The TJ fallacy mostly applies from a powergaming perspective, not an unusable rules perspective. So the Rocket Launcer example is right out.

I got your back (sort of) TJ.

They're still an issue, though, due to Missions. If a thing is book-legal, then a player should be able to expect to bring it to a Missions game and be clear to play.

Not to mention the bit where any rulesystem should stand alone for the most part and not need constant GM tweaking.

Hence my desire to have a grenadier with a hatred for furniture. Get into a firefight, "I throw a grenade at that chair there." GM: "You can't, you have to throw at that guy because he gets to dodge." Me: "I don't give two shits about that guy, I just want to blow up the chair."

I would favour calling it The TJ Hook, as in catching on the contested point raised.

What do you call someone using this?

TJ Hooker


*cue flashbacks to Shatner sequences*

Seconded

Would love to have you...

True indeed...

Thanks X-Kalibur...

True...
What rules tweaking? We play almost exclusively RAW (we do TRY houserules from time to time, but do not usually stay with them).

I don't wanna be a Hooker...

Now just to get a job in Colorado...

Yeah, Well... I don't get to Beijing very much either. Which Sucks...
Should probably brush up on my Mandarin before I go there, too. My son is helping me on that (He has been taking immersion Mandarin, ever since Kindergarten), but I really suck at it.

REALLY? That's awesome! I'd say, this is definitely a GREAT idea for your son. Get those Chinese language skills. His Mandarin is probably better than mine...

There's an open door policy at our place - all the person needs to do is buy the ticket, they can stay with us and we'll show 'em around, help 'em navigate and so on. Do it before you're too old!

Indeed... It is an awesome school he is going to. My wife is much better at learning Mandarin than I, sadly.
Awesome... Will keep it in mind for when I travel. Thanks

That sounds fair enough. If he comes from The City then he might have faced off against Chairface before, completely justifying his hatred (There was another super villain who used furniture, but I can't remember her name )

Stuff like standard interpretations of unclear rules. My go-to example is 'when do mismatched cyberlimb strength/agility bonuses apply?'

That guy totally carved his name into the moon.

Well... part of it, anyway.

On a related note I have a suite of Tick figures on my bookshelf at work. So far, nobody has any idea what they are.

Working with older agriculture/loan types can be a drag sometimes.

Bah. I'm totally a proponent of immersion learning, but I am absolutely hopeless with tonal languages. I envy those who can make sense of the Lion-Eating Poet in the Stone Den.

~Umi

You and me both. I just recently heard some podcast or other about how there was a correlation between being good at tonal languages and musical ability. My musical ability in SR terms would be "Incompetent", so you can guess how the Mandarin's going...

SPOON!!!

Is it even possible to use that arm? Or even purchase it at chargen?

Cyberlimbs:
These prosthetics are basic off-the-shelf
models. All standard cyberlimbs come with Strength
and Agility attributes of 3. These values can only be
augmented by cyberlimb enhancements, not other augmentations.


Customization:
You can have your cyberlimb tailored
and customized to your frame and musculature. Customization
lets you add to your limb’s base Strength and/or
Agility ratings. Each increase of either attribute increases
the limb’s Availability and cost. If either of your limb’s attributes
are increased beyond your natural maximum for
that attribute, you can’t use the cyberlimb (so don’t overdo
it), but you can still add cyberlimb enhancements. You
customize your cyberlimb when you buy it; you can’t customize
it after purchase, but you can add enhancements.

First, the way I read that is that you have to have the arm customized before you can add STR or AGI to it above 6 (obviously a previously used arm couldn't have been made custom for you). Secondly, with a STR of 13 and a AGI of 8 that puts availability up to 19 (char gen limit is 12). Lastly, your natural maximum for STR is 10 and 5 for AGI so I don't even think you can use the arm. Am I misunderstanding those rules?

A non-customized arm can have a maximum of +3 to STR, AGI, and armor from its base of 3 STR and 3 AGI.

You've got the availability correct, but you're misunderstanding the Enhancements.

You can always Enhance a cyberlimb for an additional 3 in any stat, even above and beyond your natural limit. So you could Enhance a base model cyberlimb to 6 in a stat if you wanted, but it's better to Customize it to your natural limit first, and then Enhance it to surpass that limit.

~Umi

Don't have to be custom for you to be custom. Just has be different than the stock model.

You can have your cyberlimb tailored
and customized to your frame and musculature.


That seems pretty clear to me. If it was customized for the previous owner's frame and musculature it definitely isn't going to work for you.


Also, I have no idea how all that gear was bought. Trolls have a 50% increase in gear costs - even if that gear was used it seems to tally up to close to 400K.

Kinda like how if a pair of pants is customized for a previous owner's frame and musculature, it's definitely not going to fit for you?

Wait, no, the other thing. It actually might, if you're of similar frames and musculatures.

Also, the +50% is a typo, it's meant to only apply to Lifestyle.

~Umi

A pair of pants is a far cry from an attachment to your body.

I know a girl who would argue her jeans are an attachment, and considering how tight they are they may well have been.

Like biosculpting with denim.

The basic concept still applies, though. Assuming your physiology is roughly the same as the original owner's, why wouldn't it work?

"This particular unit was owned by a construction worker who died on the job. Male, 5' 10", age 24, right-handed, blood type O+, good neurological health history. You'll note that according to the skeletal and neurological scans, there is a 92% compatibility between yourself and the original owner, so we should be able to fit you out with just a few adjustments. For one thing, it's a little shorter than your current limb, so we'll have to swap out the joint mounts for longer components and maybe add a compensator, unless you're okay with the mismatch. There's also a quirk with the rotator cuff, as the original installation had to compensate for a heavily damaged and rebuilt torso, so we'll need to remove some of the extra reinforcement or it will get in the way of your intact shoulder blade... unless you'd like to also go with a cybertorso? Reasonable rates, you know..."

~Umi

TICK... You can't fight crime with a Wooden Duck!!!

It's also entirely possible to customize the thing afterwards. You know, it was used first, customized to your specifications after? They do it with cars all the time.

Rules specifically state that this cannot be done.

Pretty sure they only say you can't customize your own after purchase. I mean, if we're already talking about using fluff as rules, we may as well keep lawyering as far as we can, right? Either way, the rule is stupid, because there's never been a thing invented by man that can't be modified after use.

It is pretty clear that it isn't a fluff description. Saying that is fluff is like saying descriptions of incompatible bioware and cyberware is fluff. There are a lot of stupid/nonsensical rules but this one doesn't fall into that category.

The "fluff as rules" comment was a reference to the claim that you can't have secondhand custom because it's customized to someone else's frame and musculature even though there's no rule that remotely resembles saying anything like that.

Also, yes, the claim that you can't customize a cyberlimb after you've got it is pretty much the textbook example of a stupid/nonsensical rule.