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Moonwolf
By the rules in Rigger 3, and only 'cause they're stupid. Build a character with the highest reactions you can, and the most quickness possible. Add in a trauma damper, and, if you really want, a platelet factory. Hide near a tight run that you know a rigger you don't like runs his T-bird down. Jump in front of it at the last minute, so you hit it. You take (speed/10)D damage, which turns into 9(or cool.gif boxes of physical, and one of stun. The T-bird takes (speed/10)L. Remember that T-birds are running at 1000 speed, so both of you haven't got any chance of soaking. However, because you didn't take deadly and pass out, the rigger now has to make a crash test, which he'll probably fail at that speed, especially with that +1 TN from the light damage biggrin.gif .

Another use for this character is stupid assassination methods. Fly over the target at high altitude. Have some way of aiming your fall. Jump. Land on the target. You both take deadly, but you take 9 physical and 1 stun. Crawl away, job done. For more sickness, have one of the cyber-implant nano-medkits that can heal you on their own, and end up coming away from ANY fall on 3 boxes of physical. biggrin.gif
Modesitt
QUOTE
Unless a sniper or a really good shot hits you for body overflow. Even then, all you have to do is hope that its only +1 box.


I can't let this lie there uncorrected.

Until you involve the naval-scale weapons from Rigger 3, you can not under any circumstances deal more than Deadly Physical with any one attack. This was deliberate, designed to protect characters from just dying instantly from a single unexpected attack. Unless the NPC views it as personal, they'll just shoot him until he goes down, then they'll do the other PCs before finishing off the dying. If NPCs think like that, the PCs at least have a fighting chance of saving dying comrades.

The closest thing to the rules you say exist are the Deadlier Over-Damage rules listed on page 126 BBB. They are listed as an optional rule for correcting ridiculous situations. The Deadlier Over-Damage rule is an optional rule, NOT the standard rules.

Amusingly enough, even if you use the Deadlier Over-Damage rule, The Mercenary sample character could still survive being shot square in the head with a Panther Assault cannon. 13*1.5 = 19.5, Panther cannons are 18D, Deadlier Over-Damage wouldn't apply unless you used the extra-deadly version. Even then, it's possible to get to 18 body on a starting level troll without even leaving the core rules. 6 base, +5 troll, +1 troll dermal armor, +2 titanium bone lacing, +3 more cybernetic dermal armor, +1 two cyberarms=18 body.
Tziluthi
I think you'd be surprised how many optional rules GMs would take up to kill a munchkin.
Capt. Dave
QUOTE (Moonwolf @ Apr 29 2004, 09:36 PM)
For more sickness, have one of the cyber-implant nano-medkits that can heal you on their own, and end up coming away from ANY fall on 3 boxes of physical.  biggrin.gif

Can the Guardian Angel biotech you on its own? I thought it merely acted as a medkit (rating 6) with a -2 modifier.
I know it can stabilize deadly damage, but I thought that was the extent of its autonomy.
Herald of Verjigorm
(M&M page 91 to confirm) It attempts to wake the unconscious, stabilize those at deadly physical, and doubles the time to get an extra box of overflow if it can't stabilize.
Capt. Dave
QUOTE (Herald of Verjigorm @ Apr 29 2004, 10:09 PM)
(M&M page 91 to confirm) It attempts to wake the unconscious, stabilize those at deadly physical, and doubles the time to get an extra box of overflow if it can't stabilize.


So would you rule that if you take a medium wound, it would roll biotech of 6 with a -2 modifier and, if successful, take you down to light? Anyone?
Herald of Verjigorm
No, it lists those three as the automatic behaviour. Doing a biotech test every 3 seconds is not a listed automatic behaviour, so I would not allow a Guardian Angel to do so.
Capt. Dave
Okay, that's how I read it. Thanks.
Moonwolf
But the non-implant nano-medkit can heal wounds on its own once it is activated, and can, if the user has no skill, roll on purely its own dice with no penalties. Therefore, all you have to do after dropping from a great hight, and staying concious due to implant insanity, is use "activate implanted cyberware" as a free action and then lie still for a couple of minutes and then be on a medium wound. Looking at the HALO rules, you're about as well off jumping with implants than training for months without them.

Edit: And that's all the problems you can come up with for that entire post? Wow. You let the first one through. I would have more problems with Body 1 humans with one implant causing T-birds to crash than people jumping from high altitude and living, people have done that IRL with, occasionally, very little real damage beyond minor bruising.
TinkerGnome
Wow... troll special forces are scary wink.gif

Drop 'em from a plane and they get up to walk away from the crater of whatever they smashed on the way down.
Capt. Dave
QUOTE (Moonwolf)

Edit: And that's all the problems you can come up with for that entire post? Wow.

Oh, I wasn't talking about any problems with your post, that's just a question I've been wondering on for a while. Seemed like a good time to ask other people's opinion on it.
Moonwolf
Yeah, but Troll Spec Forces might just show up on radar on the way down. Dwarf Spec Forces, however, present a much smaller profile to radar, and, with the frankly stupid weights given for trolls, have a noicable increase in physical density, thereby allowing them to crater better.
Lilt
QUOTE (A Clockwork Lime)
Take an adept (Magic B) with quite a bit of cash (Resources A) and buy enough Spell Points to initiate at least three times (31 Spell Points +2 for the Group, costing 825,000 nuyen). Take Centering (Physical and Knowledge) and Divination. Use something like Pyromancy as the linked skill for both. Call yourself Oracle.

IIRC allowing normal adepts to buy/spend spell points as a starting character is still forbidden in the official books. It does make sense that if a mage can do it, or a physmage, then so could an adept... But these are the SR rules we're talking about here. I wouldn't be surprised if house rules (yours even?) put that right.

Also: it costs 3 karma to joing a group, not 2.
Cain
Let's see...

Buying resources multiple times. Originally, the trick was to buy 1 mil two or three times; but then I discovered that I could buy 500 nuyen twenty-thousand times, also giving me more points to spend on my character.

Taking a physmage, buying nothing but Magical power. Using those points to initiate, and buying more Magical Power, and using spellpoints from that to initiate further. Later, rinse, repeat.

(Yes, both these depend on loopholes that any respectable GM would shut down in a heartbeat. I'm not going to give away all my best secrets, after all. biggrin.gif)
A Clockwork Lime
You can't purchase the same Priority multiple times. That's not a loophole, it's blatant cheating. The Build-Point system is still a Priority system, you just set how many build points you're applying to each Priority instead of using a letter. Except for the cost of each Priority, they follow the same rules as standard character creation (SRComp p. 13).

Buying nothing Magical Power is hardly a beneficial loophole (especially since from the point after you initiate once, your Spell Point income is less than what you're spending to initatiate). The penalties outweigh the benefits, unless all you plan on doing is using Centering and maybe some other skill-intensive techniques like Divining or Psychometry. Of course, since you're initiating only to buy more Magicla Power, you're not getting any metamagic techniques either, so it's a fruitless endeavor. But hey, at least you'll have an Astral Pool that you can't use without more magical augmentation and you'll definitely be losing Magic every time you make a Magic Loss test. Good job.
Cain
I've seen different arguments on buying resources multiple times; while I agree that it shouldn't be allowed to happen, the rules aren't perfectly clear. This being a thread on twinking, you always want to go with whatever isn't clear, twisted into the best possible interpretation.

The trick with Physmages was meant to get the highest possible Magic rating. Combine that with other tricks to get a lot of spellpoints, and you end up with a ton.
Brazila
physical mage, Quick Strike and Force 6 manabolt/ball Always first and can kill most things.
Moonwolf
You can't buy Resources on Points more than once. For one real good reason. -5 points = 500 Nuyen. If you could buy multiple times, you'd end up with infinite cash and infinite buy points.
RedmondLarry
The way I twink is to visit dumpshock and find out what most people outlaw in their games. Then I find a game that doesn't outlaw it.
Eyeless Blond
heh. All I do is make a post saying, "Hey, how's this guy look?", build a character, and let everyone else twink it for me. smile.gif

(Edit): Speaking of which, thanks for all the ideas for Pierce guys! biggrin.gif I mean, I'm pretty sure he's not very well twinked, per se, but he's pretty cool.
LoseAsDirected
QUOTE (Moon-Hawk)
Yes, I am aware of the Mnemonic Enhancer nerf. For those not aware of ME nerf, it now reduces karma cost of learning skills by 1 regardless of level, instead of 1 per level. Of course, this just means that most characters can get away with only needing to get one level of it for the primary advantage. For my money, the single best piece of 'ware in the game, even post nerf. Levels 2&3 are cool, too, just not munchy.

Not counting the karma cost reduction (pre or post errata), Mnemonic Enhancers are pretty damn cool. For only 45,000 you can get +1 to all Knowledge skills, +3 to all Language and Memory checks, and the modifier for defaulting to Intelligence (for Knowledge skills) is only +3 instead of +4.. It's not bad if you're playing someone who needs to know a lot of stuff.. Good for a 'I'm-the-brains-of-this-outfit' type of character. I've currently got a face who is built around Mnemonic Enhancers 3.. I didn't even think about the karma reduction when I took it.. That was just icing on the cake as far as I was concerned.
Skeeve
Let's not forget the Troll Physad with 10 Str, Alpha Aluminum Bone Lacing, and Killing Hands Deadly. Drop the SOB out of a plane and you get the range of a Barret as well as the damage code. biggrin.gif

Hm. That's actually not that good - give me some time to come up with something better.
SirKodiak
I'm surprised no one has mentioned this.

A sorcerer with improved invisibility, stealth, 2 force 1 sustaining focuses, and a smartlink. Cast each of the spells at force 1, you'll get so many successes that you'd need an intelligence of 7 to have enough dice to resist, and you're undetectable to everything but astral perception. You walk around undetectable blowing people away, pretty much immune to counter-attack. An astrally percieving mage can cause you problems, but you'll have the time to deal with him because no one else can touch you.

I had a character where I did this and used a tricked-out combat shotgun as a weapon (eliminating recoil). People died very fast. Cyber-samurai couldn't do anything, because I could walk right up to them and then pull the trigger.
I Eat Time
QUOTE (SirKodiak)
A sorcerer with improved invisibility, stealth, 2 force 1 sustaining focuses, and a smartlink. Cast each of the spells at force 1, you'll get so many successes that you'd need an intelligence of 7 to have enough dice to resist, and you're undetectable to everything but astral perception.

As many tears as this twink caused the last GM I had, there's a very good solution to it. A couple, actually. One, just keep in mind that it's not hard for an NPC to do that, and if you don't like it, have a bounty hunter come after the Mage, knock all the other teammates unconscious, then pit the two against each other. Make sure it's implied that if the character's gonna twink, so's the GM. If that's a little hard knock, here are some others.

Summoning spirits, given enough time, is fairly easy and straightforward. Elementals are a little harder, and cost a little more money, but any Mage with a week can have a small army of Force 6 and Force 8 elementals easily capable of taking out one Invisible mage from the astral. Or at least giving them a hard time. If reports keep coming in about an invisible Mage terrorizing the Shadowrun biz, then people are gonna wanna want magickal security, and other Shadowrunners might start to get a little jealous.

Thirdly, don't active foci make it much, much easier to cast spells at a person from the Astral? I doubt the Mage is going to keep Astral Perception on because of a few heavy modifiers it puts on shooting and ranged combat, just have a patrolling, Astral Corp Sec Wagemage start tossing stuff down his/her gullet before they realize it.
SirKodiak
QUOTE
As many tears as this twink caused the last GM I had, there's a very good solution to it. A couple, actually. One, just keep in mind that it's not hard for an NPC to do that, and if you don't like it, have a bounty hunter come after the Mage, knock all the other teammates unconscious, then pit the two against each other. Make sure it's implied that if the character's gonna twink, so's the GM. If that's a little hard knock, here are some others.


Yeah, it works, but it means that the other characters bystanders to a fight between two twink characters.

QUOTE
Summoning spirits, given enough time, is fairly easy and straightforward. Elementals are a little harder, and cost a little more money, but any Mage with a week can have a small army of Force 6 and Force 8 elementals easily capable of taking out one Invisible mage from the astral. Or at least giving them a hard time. If reports keep coming in about an invisible Mage terrorizing the Shadowrun biz, then people are gonna wanna want magickal security, and other Shadowrunners might start to get a little jealous.


Again, this basically requires someone to want this guy dead and plan around it.

QUOTE
Thirdly, don't active foci make it much, much easier to cast spells at a person from the Astral? I doubt the Mage is going to keep Astral Perception on because of a few heavy modifiers it puts on shooting and ranged combat, just have a patrolling, Astral Corp Sec Wagemage start tossing stuff down his/her gullet before they realize it.


I don't think it makes it easier to cast on him astrally. The problem he's going to have is that his focuses, being force 1, are going to get slammed and deactivated. Frankly, I think that's the best way to deal with him.

What it came down to is, I made this character in a campaign and he was overly powerful, particularly against mundanes. Yeah, hired assassins could have been sent in to kill him, but we wanted a solution that wasn't just my character being destroyed. In particular, there's nothing conceptually wrong with wanting to be invisibile while fighting. The ways to deal with it mostly come down to just eliminating it as a useful option because characters which do it get removed from the game. What would be nice is a way to deal with it that didn't result in making the character useless.

Our fix was the house rule that thermo could see invisible characters. It's still a sigfnificant bonus, and your cyber samurai is still going to have trouble hitting him (+4 cyber full darkness penalty), but at least there's a real fight without resorting to sending hit squads to take out this guy. Particularly when it's a little hard to justify the hit squads (how did anyone know he was invisible, they just found bodies filled with shotgun slugs; by definition, no one saw him).
I Eat Time
My take is, if a player knows he's taking advantage of a flaw in the mechanics to play the game, then he's really undermining the spirit of role-playing-games, and is better suited for video games or Magic: The Gathering.

Don't get me wrong, I'll give them admiration and respect, but my games are run on stories, not on mechanics, and all my players know this. They also know that taking advantage of semibroken or broken rules really ticked me off, and I'd use the stories to get vindictive.

It can be argued that players should be allowed to do whatever they can do with the canon rules, but I'm going to say that the buck stops when people stop having fun, and that's including the GM.
GreatChicken
Personally, I wouldn't mind munchkining IF the person comes up with a good, unique background for it. Unfortunately, the general trend for munchkins (and munchkin wannabes) is that their backgrounds leave a lot to be desired.
toturi
QUOTE (I Eat Time)
My take is, if a player knows he's taking advantage of a flaw in the mechanics to play the game, then he's really undermining the spirit of role-playing-games, and is better suited for video games or Magic: The Gathering.

Don't get me wrong, I'll give them admiration and respect, but my games are run on stories, not on mechanics, and all my players know this. They also know that taking advantage of semibroken or broken rules really ticked me off, and I'd use the stories to get vindictive.

It can be argued that players should be allowed to do whatever they can do with the canon rules, but I'm going to say that the buck stops when people stop having fun, and that's including the GM.

Remember not to play in the games that the other guy GMs, if he ever does GM.

Players are supposed to spoil the fun of the GM, they are supposed to do the unexpected, they are supposed to spoil all those well-laid plans.
Austere Emancipator
QUOTE (toturi)
Players are supposed to spoil the fun of the GM

I agree with most of your stuff above, but not this. The players are certainly not supposed to spoil the GM's fun. Why the fuck is the GM supposed to run a game for these assholes if he never has any fun himself?
Lilt
@SirKodiak:
There's a better word for that form of munchkinning. It goes like: MAGIK IZ TEH WINNR!!!!!!11

I'm not attempting to insult you, it's just one of those things. Magic Vs Mundane = Magic wins. Spirits, Invisibility (with Stealth), and Astral Surveilance are all things mundane defences have a lot of troubble combating. that's why any competent running or defence team needs magical support, and why "Geek the enemy Mage first" is SOP. If the enemy awakened support dies, then a powerful mage could win single-handedly. If your awakened support dies, the enemy mage beats you to a pulp and there's very little you can do about it.
I Eat Time
The biggest problem with munchkins and gamebreakers isn't that they bend and contort without ever shattering a rule to create some insane stuff, that's just crafty, as the presence of this thread indicates. I admire munchkins who can think like that, because I sure can't. I'm not jealous, I just think it's pretty cool that it can be done.

No, the biggest problem is playing in a group with one munchkin. It's either incredibly easy, with the twink doing most of the work, constantly arguing with the GM, and single-handedly creaming over the competition, or it's much worse. The GM feels the need to put up competition and challenge to all the players. Problem being, what stands as competative to a twink is usually Dragon missles, insanely powerful military cyberzombies, Great Dragons themselves, or other incredible nasties. Which take out the rest of the group.

It's no fun to play a game where you are as unto a GOD in the gameworld, one of the main reasons I personally don't exploit so many rules to my advantage. So it's not just about 'pissing off the GM'. It can ruin the game for other players.
Eyeless Blond
QUOTE (SirKodiak @ May 3 2004, 04:07 AM)
A sorcerer with improved invisibility, stealth, 2 force 1 sustaining focuses, and a smartlink. Cast each of the spells at force 1, you'll get so many successes that you'd need an intelligence of 7 to have enough dice to resist, and you're undetectable to everything but astral perception.


Invisibility and Stealth are a pretty powerful combo, yes, but they're not all-powerful. The trick is to remember that the mage, while invisible and inaudible, is still physically there, and so he can be dealt with in the same way that you deal with guys who have good Stealth. Consider, for example, this cheap method of detection. Also note that the guy is still vulnerable to the olfactory sense; dogs will be able to track him down fairly easily, and Awakened dogs even more easily. FAB is of course very nasty to mages. Heck, even sprinklers would make the guy visible; remember that neither Stealth nor Invisibility protect you from being touched.

Another idea is to target his sustaining foci/spells. This means wards, if you'll pardon the pun. Alarm wards tied to a mage with a good stable of elementals will ruin any mage's day, especially when they have active foci with them. Regular wards are typically from Force 4-6+ and so are more than capable of killing a couple of F1 sustaining foci. If you want to be evil you set up masking polarized wards, so the mage gets his spells destroyed on his way *out* instead of in, which ruins his day even more as he's usually got a few guards suspicous by then.

Really if you're having trouble with this guy, then how can you expect to handle an infiltration adept? This one's got more disadvantages, and is almost certainly going to have fewer combat skills; the adept is better in almost every way.
Kagetenshi
QUOTE (Lilt)
@SirKodiak:
There's a better word for that form of munchkinning. It goes like: MAGIK IZ TEH WINNR!!!!!!11

I'm not attempting to insult you, it's just one of those things. Magic Vs Mundane = Magic wins. Spirits, Invisibility (with Stealth), and Astral Surveilance are all things mundane defences have a lot of troubble combating. that's why any competent running or defence team needs magical support, and why "Geek the enemy Mage first" is SOP. If the enemy awakened support dies, then a powerful mage could win single-handedly. If your awakened support dies, the enemy mage beats you to a pulp and there's very little you can do about it.

Riggers eat mages for breakfast. Invisible mage? No problem, that just means the rigger doesn't get the -2 TN bonus for having LOS to detect the mage.

~J
A Clockwork Lime
Suppressive fire works quite nicely against invisibility or anything else of that nature, assuming you know someone's around (ala Thermosense Organs and whatnot). Visibility doesn't play any role in it whatsoever, so that +8 penalty is non-existant, and the dodge test is generally harder especially if you do know exactly where the target is.
Lilt
QUOTE (Kagetenshi)
Riggers eat mages for breakfast. Invisible mage? No problem, that just means the rigger doesn't get the -2 TN bonus for having LOS to detect the mage.

Although the rigger would still be working off the metahuman signature of 6 which isn't the easiest TN to start with. Also his sensors are at 1/2 dice according to the FAQ. Shamans get the concealment power on that too, not to mention the other common modifiers such-as urban setting, and others that might apply such-as percipitation and restricted/tight terrain. IE: It's not too hard for the mage to avoid detection.

Passive sensor tests use different rules from active ones, they use the character's intelligence rather than sensor rating, but they use the rules for standard perception tests to which it could be argued the standard +4 penalty applies (blind-fire halved by ultrasound).
Kagetenshi
Sensor dice are halved? Where is this? Anything other than the FAQ support that?

Edit: I found the mention in the FAQ, and it is quite clearly smoking something. [Edit: Active] Sensor tests get bonuses for being within LOS, so II shouldn't do a thing but kill that bonus.

~J
snowRaven
Okay, time to twink; refining concepts already stated will be the topic for today.

Koborokuru Dwarf (cause they're harder to hit, can take more damage, resist lots of stuff, and they're as fast as humans. Natural Immunity(Narcoject), Natural Immunity(Atropine))
Albino (for that extra willpower, pick color blind as the extra flaw)
Edges: Exceptional Body, Magic Resistance 4, Quick Healer, Toughness, Will to Live 3.
Flaws: Pacifist, Dark Secret, Ugly and Doesn't Care, Uneducated, Allergy(Gold, Mild)

Bioware(all cultured): Trauma Damper, Platelet Factory, Suprathyroid Gland, Pain Editor, Toxin Extractor 1 (3.85)
Genetech: Phenotypic Alteration (Body), Angiotensin, Calcitonin

Cyberware: Cyberhand w/Guardian Angel Biomonitor w/DNI, Titanium Bonelacing(beta), Nanite Facilitator + Hive w/Nanite Symbiotes, Dermal Sheath 3(beta), Synthetic Cyberskull(beta), Display Link(beta), Datajack(beta) (linked to Biomonitor and Display Link), Auto-Injector, reusable(beta; anti-coagulants), Auto-Injector, reusable(Trauma Patch) (5.01)


Body 10 (18 for damage resistance tests; Physical Overflow 13)
Quick 7 x 3
Str 5
Cha 2
Int 6 (5 with Pain Editor activated)
Will 8 (9 with Pain Editor activated)

Combat Pool 10

SmallUnit Tactics 6 (used for extra combat pool)

Formfitting Fullsuit (4/1); (Chemical Seal 5)
Armor Vest w/Plates (5/4) (Nonconductive 7 + Dikoted)
Heavy Jumpsuit (2/4) (Fire Resistance 6)
Forearm Guards (-/+1)
Security Helmet (+1/+2)
Bone Lacing (+1/+1)
Dermal Sheathing (-/+2)
Total Armor: (10/11(12 with guards))

Ballistic Riot Shield (3/1) to hide behind

This little unassuming fellow can survive most things, and when he's taken too much punishment he just turns on the Pain Editor and runs away. The ideal is to fit him with two cyberfeet with retractable cyberskates, but that will require more betaware and alpha legs (change the hand to a lower leg in this case - the biomonitor and the skates take up 6 ECU together, so it fits)

He could be made even tougher if you SURGE him and hand-pick the effects, but that's too much even for twinking, I think. (Positive: Resistance to Poisons 3(5), Dermal Deposits(2), Gills(4). Negative: Allergy(Silver; Mild)(-2), Tusks(-1), Sensitive Neural Structure II(-4))

And if you want other types of twinkiness I have a few others up my sleeve grinbig.gif
Eyeless Blond
er, what's with the cyberskull?

Oh, and add on Cultured Nitchiating Membranes. Even better than Flare Comp, especially since you didn't get your eyes replaced. biggrin.gif
Shockwave_IIc
You don't have to get your eyes replaced anyway. But what happens if it starts suffering stress???
Eyeless Blond
Um, then it suffers stress? That's kinda like wondering why a runner should carry a gun with him on a run, if firing it might draw the guard's attention. nyahnyah.gif Honestly though, I don't much like how those rules are put together in M&M for this very reason; there is essentially no difference in a single bioware system's vulnerability between index .1 and 1, but a big jump between 1 and 1.1. Further, a single bioware system is more individually vulnerable than the same system in a cluster of other boiware systems. I'm really not sure much thought was put into those rules, other than "let's make something up that uses d6s and is unnecessarily complex, just to confuse everyone!"

Besides, it really fits in with the albino condition, speaking from experience. I have albinism, and I can tell you some days I'd give my right nut for polarized flare comp transitional eye covers. I'd never have to worry about changing between these three different pairs of glasses (some for inside work, one for outside work), and polarization really cuts down on glare, which is absolute *death* for people with sun-sensetive eyes.
Lilt
If I could direct your attention to the Drakeish Metahumans thread I think I may have 'discovered' a new and improved way to twink. smile.gif

We have:
Night One Adept with a flying speed of 96kph before you even factor-in athletics, and 132kph assuming 12 athletics dice (they are an adept after-all).

Troll Physad Drakes with body and strength both in the 20s from chargen

Astral guardians with natural astral armor 6 and +1 reach.
northern lights
physad POM using points system for a million nuyen

edged weapons 6 improved edged weapons 6 plus a bonded force 6 reach 1 weapon focus

geas the magic power and get 24 spell points to bond focus at pp cost of 3

geas 1 point of magic loss and you have enhanced artichokes and reflex recorder

20 dice without combat pool 21 if you specialize

max strength and you could easily boost it with maybe a geased pp or bioware to a 9 or 10 then if it's an ork pump him up with some auto injected kamikaze and you're like 15+m with 20 dice at target 3

dikote for maximum muchiness.
northern lights
yup, geas the magic power to exclusive, you'll never use it anyway, you're just bondin the focus.

geas imp str >RML at 1 level cost .75
geas imp edged at 6 levels for a cost of 2.25

use talisman for both of those. use the weapon focus as the talisman.

muscle aug 3
reflex recorder
and enhanced artistry

auto injector, jolt alert - whatever .1 essence ware to allow magic loss to be offset with meditation geas

bonus str edge

dikote the beast with your remaining 28k

human - str11 base damage 15S with 21 dice specialized

find 5 points of flaws

ork - str13 base damage 18S with 21 dice specialized

attribute allocation:
657335

still have some room to play with flaws to increase some stuff.

edit:

sacrifice an att point from will and qui and make it a troll for 20Sand get the extra reach.

imagine taking 2 geasa for more cyber/bio!!!
Lilt
Hey, northern lights, you forgot to make him ambitwinkerous!

As Weapon Foci add their rating to the skill used to wield them, main-hand weapon foci bonuses also apply to the off-hand weapon when dual wielding and vice-versa! IE: you add ambitwinxterity to that mix and you start rolling 30 dice before pool!

Even better, you could buy a short off-hand weapon and wield it getting the same bonuses as if you had a main weapon focus (except it's cheaper karma-wise and you'd probably need to lose your reach bonus if you were trying to damage a creature with immunity(normal weapons).
snowRaven
Eyeless Blond, the cyberskull is there for the wonderful bonus of negating the damage level increase to called shots to the head (which is what people will start doing when he keeps getting up) - it can be removed and replaced with some more nifty bioware, if desired (like the membranes - I forgot about those!)
northern lights
yeah lilt, i specifically went with a reach weapon. and in doing so you don't have the ambidextwinkity factor available with the build points. well you could with the human, but not the others.

you can do it with a reach 2 weapon as well, though you can't culture anything fom the cost. but you are totally correct, if you could find a decent reach 0 weapon, get 2 foci and ambidextwinkity and there you are with somewhere around 30 dice.

assuming that the ambi goes off of base skill and hence adds 3 dice. and that you can bond 2 foci. i see no reason you couldn't

5/7 skill
+3 ambi
+6 focus 1
+6 focus 2
+6 imp abil (can't exceed magic)
+1 reflex recorder
+1 enhanced artwinkies

that's 30. your call as to multiple foci, but hey mages gut multiple sustaining foci, right?

oh yeah the down side is the 2 difference in power.
gee only like 13 s for the human.

edit:

OMFG!!! i just realized that reach 0 weapon foci are insanely expensive. for some reason i thought they were cheaper. damn, i guess 2 foci aren't the way to go. oh well, you can still get 26 dice. i don't think that it works adding 12 (skill+focus) and 6 (half (skill + focus)) nor adding 12 (skill+focus) and 9 ((half skill) + focus)so no 30s. if i am wrong though someone correct me.
A Clockwork Lime
Why go with Reach 0 weapons at all?

Snag Ambidexterity, geas away your cybernetic Fangs (-1 Reach) and Horns (-1 Reach) [only 0.40 Essence with retractable versions of each]. Might as well add some Venom Sacks for no Essence and only 500.

To have those enchanted as Weapon Foci, it costs 90,000/Force and 2 Karma/Force. Quite a bargain over 0 Reach, and with Close Combat, Reach becomes a null point and you're dishing out a ton of dice with your Cyber-Implant Combat skill. You may look like you're having a seizure with all the head action, but...

Now if we could only find a Reach -2 weapon, we'd actually be making money on 'em if we had 'em enchanted (-10,000/Force). biggrin.gif
northern lights
the only reason we were looking at reach 0 was the amidexterity thing and the (wrongly) assumed lower costs.
A Clockwork Lime
Ambidexterity works just fine with cybernetic implants and Reach -1 weapons. smile.gif Use your horns to deflect or parry your opponents weapon then sink your fangs into the exposed target you left open for yourself. <chomp> You even get to deliver a chemical attack on top of that.

Get 'em dikoted and the damage increases to (STR+1)S for the horns or (STR+2)M for the fangs, too.
Lilt
Great idea Lime! What you want to do now is make them all foci, then actually fight with two dikoted cyberspurs. AFAIK They all use cyber implant combat, so the bonuses from the reach 0 weapons carry-over to the weapons you're actually fighting with! (may depend on your definition of wield)
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