They already had that, it's called D&D minis.
Also, due to how much it favors the PCs it sucks as a tactical combat game.

There is a feat in PF that lets you preheal everyone before combat as well.

I do feel like Saga managed to find a balancing point for Jedi, which to me is fairly impressive. I have most of the splat books for WEG Star Wars and the biggest problem I have is the lack of consistency. In one book there's a really nice armored vacuum suit of some sort. +2D physical +1D energy and has a built in blaster cannon. How much for it? 1000 credits. I can find worse suits of armor for significantly more even within the same book. I do feel like the system lended itself much better to actual role playing than combat.

Yeah. It's sometimes not that obvious when you're looking at it book to book, but whenever you see a gear collection (I think it was called Fantastic Technology, or some of the fan-made compilations you can find online now-a-days), it's really jarring. Some armor's just way better than others, some guns are priced really strangely, some stuff gets weird special rules (like the "deck clearer" shotgun-blasters, which just attack everyone in front of you), it really feels like more ships than not have a price of "not available for sale," which always sucks (c'mon, give a ballpark estimate, y'know?)...there was a lot of variety of content the bigger the game line got, the larger the freelance pool grew. Consistency became a real issue, where force powers and gear were concerned. It really felt like there wasn't a firm hand on the reins, with anyone watching over the whole product line for consistent prices and abilities and stuff (which clearly is still an issue in gaming companies, sometimes).

I haven't played enough Saga to really get a feel for it one way or the other (when it came out, I just wasn't in the mood for more class/level based shenanigans). I'll admit my love for the WEG system might just be rose-colored glasses, but back in the day we had a lot of fun with it, warts and all.

Saga works pretty well, and it somewhat manages to create jedi and non-jedi of comparable power at comparable levels. The game does, however, have some issues, and frankly it works the best at the middle levels. At low levels Force powers are overpowered if the jedi has skill focus level in Use the Force, and at high levels you have some other issues with regards to DC ratings vs. Skill ratings and Defenses vs. the ability To Hit. The amount of feats, talents, powers, and gear also allows for some interesting combinations. But then again, D&D and every other level based game I've ever played also suffer from some of these problems. Same reason I mechanics wise prefer Shadowrun and OWoD.

You would think that a company that publishes games would have whiteboards or spreadsheets listing all this stuff for easy comparison. Seeing as that's their full time job to turn this stuff out and revise it.

I'll admit until hearing about the jedi hunter, I never even considered the deck clearing blaster. Now I might have to change my mind. But the Gundark's Fantastic Technology and Galladinium's Fantastic Technology (the latter of which had basically useless or unaffordable gear) had some serious issues with consitency even internally. Let alone when compared to other splat books like the Rebel Spec Ops book or Cracken's Field Guide. That said, it's not just rose tinted glasses, it still really is a fun game for all its flaws.

When one considers how often this isn't a full time job for any involved, and how many game companies don't, in fact, have an office to hang a whiteboard in, the puzzle pieces fall together a little more (which isn't me excusing such behavior, or apologizing for it, just saying it's a big factor in how/why this sort of thing happens).

My question, then, is how do such decentralized / directionless / weekend-warrior type game companies get a hold of the rights to these game systems in the first place? If they're not making enough money to have a central office and a dedicated development team, how the hell do they afford the legal aspect of gaining rights ownership?

And if they are making enough money to operate as a professional sort of system, why don't they?

~Umi

Well, in the case of WEG and Star Wars, I think Lucas Arts was trying to get as much spotlight as they could on the setting. The "flight sims" for X-Wing and TIE Fighter came out while WEG held the license and sold well, they were putting out the THX and then remastered VHS versions of the movies... it was just a way to rake in more money. I mean really, I've seen just as many bad SW products as good ones.

Star wars is hard to balance as in the movies Jedi are so far ahead of everyone else in terms of combat and non-combat abilities due to the force. Really, their only weakness was when they came up against a problem where the force wasn't an option (EG a shopkeeper who's immune to the Jedi mind trick). Much like mages in shadowrun, they can get away with using a small skillset to deal with any problem they encounter. This allows them to remain flexible while focusing their skills in a small area.

This isn't true of all systems, but the fact remains that in the movies Jedi were better than everyone else which makes balancing them in a game come at the expense of staying true to source material and vica versa. As a result no system is going to be able to please everyone, and you have to decide if you want your game to focus on balance or being true-to-source as the two are mutually exclusive.

Which is why I Like Feng Shui for Starwars
No one Archetype is substantially more powerful than another. They are all badass to start with. And they move up from there.

Interesting, so the historical Star Wars RPGs that many look back upon with such fondness was no more than a historical fluke in an era of the dawn of mainstream video games. A glimmer in time when the rights to develop such products could essentially go to groups of hobbyists.

Pulled this from the Wiki, I think it makes a rather good point:

Around 1987, the company acquired the license to produce a Star Wars role-playing game. Since the films had been released some years previously, and there was (at the time) no new media forthcoming, the success of these books came as a surprise.

Re: the Jedi Hunter and some of the Spoony One's other videos, this is the stripped down version of what I get from his rants:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DV9Bgwh1XNE

To go full on topic, I'd love to go SR/Scott Pilgrim, though I think I can see that working out without crossing over to any other system or setting (reality impaired/filter, Adept/Mystic, low/mid lifestyle with a roommate, etc., living in the Barrens of Toronto).

OT:

From fuel drops troll wrestler topic,

Tekken/SR crossover. Hell the corp is essentially MCT anyways.
Players would play martial artists/fighters from around th world in a series of matches, as part of a fighting team. Then end with the payers having to fight it out till one is on top.

...why Tekken, then? Of all the fighting games with essentially the same underlying concept, you pick Tekken?

~Umi

For the eye candy?

Nothing less than a 6 Cha in the bunch.

I thought Dead or Alive was the eye candy / cheesecake fighting franchise?

Tekken is just so... middle of the road. Like, everything it does, some other game does better.

Want tough-guy brawling? Go for Street Fighter. Want magic and fantasy? Go for Soul Cailbur. Want ninjas? Go for Mortal Combat. Want flying panty shots and jiggly bits everywhere? Go for Dead or Alive. Want an outlandish cast of characters ranging from aliens to cyborgs to secret agent femme fatales to world class boxers to mutant criminal fire elementals? Killer Instinct has you covered (pity the series never had proper sequels - and no, the current "pay to play" reboot doesn't count).

~Umi

Guilty Gear could have a good SR vide...

To whit...


So... do any of those fighting games have ALL of those elements together? (srs, I'm not a fighting game aficionado).

See, the problem arises if King Nuada's servants are all demonstrably better at what they do.

If you want a sword made, you don't go to the guy who can make ho-hum swords, you go to the guy who makes the best damn swords around. Do you care that he can't also juggle? No, because why would you need a smith who can juggle? Especially if you already have a juggler, and he's the best juggler in the whole kingdom?

Now, if we're talking about some sort of Renaissance Man who isn't just merely proficient with everything, but actually an expert in all his trades? That's different.

But that's not Tekken.

~Umi

Course the King would rue the day shortly as he got bumped down to the Sage Seat himself while Lugh took control for the duration of the war with the Fomor, because hey he was also a leader as well.



Yeah, but Lugh was that good at everything. He bested every single one of the specialists hands down, in each of their own areas of expertise.

He was sort of one of the original Mary Sue.

But you do have a good point as most will not quite fill that sort of multi-role so aptly.


Hmm?

Oh hi TJ....

we did say most will not, not all

So the moral of the story is to be sure your skills are not tekken for granted?

Even I don't claim to have characters in that category. Good at a Lot of things, yes, but best in league in a lot of things? Not really.
Of course, My goal is to get most of my characters to Professional in all their skills. But that takes inordinate amounts of Karma, and I keep adding Skills. It is a never ending cycle. Only really managed it with one character, and well, he is retired. But he does have a lot of skills at Professional Grade.

Of all the fighting games, KI fits best into a SR game simply because it already contains all the necessary elements. Megacorps, chromed fighters, fire and ice spirits, and even a fomorian (Eyedoll). Plus, the most popular sports in SR are arena fights of one kind or another. KI literally fits directly into a campaign with no workarounds necessary, just character generation within the SR rules.

I've also given Star trek some thought. Any cybered character would be scrutinized immediately for containing "alien" cybertechnology, and therefore potentially a Borg. Considering the human characteristics of the Borg queen, the adaptability of the Borg to generate ambassadors (Locutus, 7 of 9), it's not unreasonable that the ST characters might see a cybered street sam as a potential Borg spy.

Why am I suddenly seeing a Street Sam's reaction to the federation pulling a Janeway and removing their toys to 'free' them from the borg influence?

Janeway is a bit more prudent than that, I think. She'd likely be most interested in whether he had a neural transceiver (a problem if he has a wireless datajack), but she and the doctor were pretty understanding of 7 after her's was cut. Most of 7's tech was outright rejected by her human tissue.

This might make for an interesting crossover: a team finds themselves on a Federation colony, and are presumed to be Borg spies. Meanwhile, a nearby Borg vessel detects the wireless datajack in one of the runners, and come in search of the source. The runners then find themselves in the middle of a conflict between two bitter rivals, one side seeking to eliminate a perceived threat, the other looking to convert them to cyberzombies.

For my Tekken idea, I put it out there because it has a bit of everything. There's regular joes, cyborgs, cyber augmented humans, awakened characters , pseudo NANera, evil Japanese mega corps, Surged, dragons, Balkanized countries, para critters etc. So the crossover wouldn't stretch the fluff too much. Though Mortal Kombat with the outer realms et al. being an astral plane attempting to merge as an alchera into the material complete with free spirits and tainted metas would be fun too.

As far as games go though it may not b the best but it had a bit of everything for everyone, and to be honest played 1-5 growing up so kinda partial to them.

Also like the idea of players ending up in the WFB world, reminds me of a small arc from Turn Signals on a Land Raider.

I really doubt a wireless RF datajack would be picked up as a subspace transceiver, either by the Federation or the Borg.

The Federation is also big on non-interferance, so they wouldn't summarily cut the cyber out of someone without their approval.

they say they are into non-interference, until it becomes in their best interest to interfere then it's cool, at least until someone actually stands up and complains.

If Picard isn't around to demand fair treatment I suspect the runners will be wisked away and in a research lab undergoing invasive surgery before you can say 'Tribble Trouble'

Assuming said transceiver is not picked up by the Fed, I agree that they would probably leave it alone. I was just thinking that if they did, they might just get paranoid enough to at least kill its wireless functionality.

What about a wireless control rig with a high rating? Could that mimic a Borg transceiver, in your opinion?

Define mimic?

A control rig still uses radio/microwave bandwidth while the Borg Transceiver uses subspace transmissions which is a whole other kettle of fish.

It may look like a pile of Borg gear physically but simple scanning for emissions would quickly sort the two apart.

A Shadowrun wireless control rig can "Mimic" a Borg subspace implant about as well as smoke signals can "mimic" 4G wireless internet access.

Pretty well then

Posted via smoke signal.

Dang, FD, you're making me realize just how badly I need to switch over to Firewire.

*ducks*

~Umi

Made me think of a crossover bit that's floated in my head off an on for a while now. Concept was a technomancer having been injected with borg nanites, manages to back hack them to wipe them out, but in the process ends up getting his Signal extended into the subspace frequencies.

Of course, this was well before SR5 came out. Said technomancer would probably wind up being assimilated using those mechanics.

"You... you mean even the BORG didn't want you to join them? That's... that's just depressing!"

That actually happened in voyager. The kazon (spelling? ) were considered so pathetic that the borg refused to assimilate them.

Well, the thought was the borg would want to assimilate a technomancer. And to clarify, the wipeout was in reference to the hard nanites the borg uses to initiate an assimilation, not the borg collective itself.

I just watched that episode yesterday! I laughed and laughed. "Why would we assimilate a species who would detract from our perfection?"

I could see the Federation in Star Trek wanting deniable assets for a mission. Hiring shadow runners would make more sense than sending Capt. Picard and his crew.

"After finding out that Mr. Johnson is a Ferengi, your certain that this job isn't going to pay nearly enough."

But did the Johnson have nice lobes? And is he paying in gold pressed latinum?

That's sexual harassment, and he's hoping to pay in Store Credit, respectively.

It's not sexual harassment, it's Diplomacy. Just ask Will Riker!

~Umi

Hmmm... do tailored pheromones work on Ferengi? Pheromones in the startrek verse seem pretty universal...

Oh man, Ferengi businessman vs Elf social adept. Battle of the century!

Also RE: Federation Computer Security. Watch the Voyager episode 'Bliss' and tell me their IT security is more than a joke.

You mean "Grand Nagus vs. Lwaxana Troi"?

I've been rewatching the series the last few weeks. There are NUMEROUS episodes that prove their computer security is a joke. In the episode "Forget Me Not" they were perfectly accepting of an alien agent introducing a computer virus into their main computer. I was like WTF?

First: Appeal to Voyager is the Star Trek debate version of an appeal to absurdity. Second: it was Seven of Nine who did the hacking: Not only is she a technician aboard the ship with extensive hardware access (and easily able to build herself a backdoor,) she did the hacking from her alcove, which was already a bunch of Borg hardware added to the ship, and thirdly, she's a goddamn Borg Drone. In terms of infosec, she's pretty much second only to an actual Shadowrun technomancer in slicing straight through anybody's computer security.



"Forget Me Not?" I can't find any episode by that name. Do you remember "Remember Me?" If so, they were trying to rescue Doctor Crusher from being trapped in a collapsing pocket dimension. Letting the Traveller work with their computer would have been seen as the lesser of the risks involved.

no, i think he meant the episode where voyager found a planet that wants to stay hidden and the people there make them help them stay hidden and make them volountarily forget they had met and accept a computer virus into their system that will delete everything ever having to do with that planet.
and then, because somebody fucked up, that is the exact lead that leads them back to the planet AND THEY DO IT ALL AGAIN, if i remember correctly.