It kinda seems to me that people in here are arguing so vehemently that astral things have no mass requardless of what the rules suggest because they think the astral tackle would be WAY to munchy and not because their is anything cannon to support this.

Exactly Joker, that's my main point. I don't have a problem with astral mages throwing dual natured beings, but the way I see it, allowing them to do that would also allow them to do the astral tackle - which I want to avoid at all costs. It seems to me that you can't have one without the other.

Of course, there's always the possibility of just saying "No tackles!"; let's just say that when fast-traveling, an astral form loses its mass. Can we all be happy with that?

I agree with Omega Skip. Combat between astral and dual natured beings is not really that bad after reading all this stuff, so it doesn't matter to me much any more.

The super fast tackle or the kamakazi sprit is different. I just think the speeds at which they would be moving wouldn't allow targeting so shouldn't be allowed. As my rule to say it can't be done in my games I will use the line on pg 173 of the BBB, second coloum, second paragraph, last line, "Combat can occur between two astral forms using fast movement." After reading the benging protion of that paragraph saying things move by in a blur and can't percieve things, meaning to me they can not pick out targets so can't fight them. But since 2 or more astral forms are moving at fast speed they can see and attack each other. That line also in my biased mind implys combat betwen a fast moving and non-fast moving target can not happen. That is all.

Edit: Nevermind me, misread something.

You can't attack while using Fast Movement unless battling another opponent using Fast Movement anyway, so it's a moot point. It's a non-existant problem.

It's sort of like Hyperdrive in Star Wars or something. You're effectively entering a different state of being while using Fast Movement that shifts you out of normal astral space, even if just slightly. People don't notice when you shoot through them because you really aren't. Obstacles are dodged automatically, and not because you necessarily knew they were there but because it's an side-effect of Fast Movement. etc. Shifting from normal movement to Fast Movement doesn't involve any acceleration or deceleration; you're either in that state or you're not. If you tried to do it in a warded room, you'd simply shift back to normal movement before colliding with one of the barriers (that, or you'd just be jiggling around at super-speed, still never hitting any of the barriers, until you decided to shift back). So even if mass did mean something astrally, it wouldn't matter.

Oh, is that all?

SR3 p. 176, Astral Evasion: "A dual being can only move at physical speeds and in ways dictated by physical form."

That wasn't very hard. While wearing dual-natured gloves, the astrally projecting mage is stuck at normal movement speeds until he takes them off. No Fast Movement allowed to begin with.

Personally, I don't think simply putting FAB bacteria in between two layers of material would even create a dual-natured glove. You would have two physical layers with a dual-natured layer trapped in between them. But in no way, shape, or form would such a glove be one that an astrally projecting mage could put on while in astral form. Even with foci, you are not taking the actual, physical focus into astral space with you. And even a truly dual-natured glove (maybe woven out of some dual-natured bio-fiber similar to that of guardian vines) would, as many people have pointed out, restrict you from using fast movement.

Im not talking about using fast movement as in several thousand miles an hour. Im talking about hitting someone at like 100 to 200 miles an hour. I may have mentioned using fast movement to hit someting with the gloves but that was just bad wording on my part. I made those posts really late at night and probably wasnt thinking correctly. In fat in several places i have said that hitting something with FAB gloves at astral speeds would be impossible

Then fuck off. Your indignation is noted and unacceptably immature. Homophobia, gay bashing, and any other form of prejudice— even in casual slang— are not tolerated here or in any civilized setting.

And it's a violation of the board rules to boot.

Movement speeds while Astral are only mildly faster than on the Physical World. (Intelligence) x4 instead of (Quickness) x3. You're not going to be traveling at 100 or 200 miles per hour. Well, unless you try to get obnoxious with the rules just so you can break it regardless of how stupid it is.

I never said anything bad about gays.

Whether or not you realize it, using "gay" as insult is in fact discriminatory and it is "saying soemthing bad about gays". You are using a term to refer to a class of sexual persuasion as an insult. That is an insulting use of the word.

This is the entirely wrong place to begin a discussion on discrimantory remarks and slurs.

[/edit] Unless you're discussing the relevancy of such in the game, which y'all are not.

Ok note to self. Using the word gay offends some people discussion offically dropped

Anything above the normal speeds (int * 4 I think) counts as fast movement. Fast movement can go up to the thousands of kilometers an hour, but (int * 4)+1 m/turn still counts as "fast movement."