I personally prefer all the atrocities and wonders of history to have been the accomplishments of Humans alone. Color me silly that way.
As far as I'm concerned that's why Dunkelzahn was so interested in guiding us into the future and towards the coming of the Horrors. He realized the potential we had because of all those things we accomplished without magic and without the bastard brats of the Highlander fad.
Full Version: Intiate Grades ... who's the big gun?
Silly 
I like a mix weighted towards humans, myself. Arthur as Harlequin? I'm down with that. Leonardo da Vinci as Leonardo? Not sure I like that one, but I can fit it in. However, once we get into them having been behind everything from the Battle of Hastings to the assassination of Archduke Ferdinand, then I just get annoyed.
~J
I like a mix weighted towards humans, myself. Arthur as Harlequin? I'm down with that. Leonardo da Vinci as Leonardo? Not sure I like that one, but I can fit it in. However, once we get into them having been behind everything from the Battle of Hastings to the assassination of Archduke Ferdinand, then I just get annoyed.
~J
Actually I was thinking of them behind everything from the fall of the Qin Empire to the Manhattan Project. 
I wasn't advocating IE's being behind practically everything, and perhaps not even the most major things. Rather than influencing Hitler to attack Russia or Japan to bomb Pearl Harbour, perhaps an IE helped run the so-called Secret Railway that smuggled allies out of occupied France.
I do like the idea of Hitler and Himmler's obssession with the occult being the result of some kind of encounter with an IE or GD. It's historically such a... what's the word I'm looking for? Something that doesn't fit well into the overall scheme of things. You take my point? Now that would be good IE-fodder. Not starting, or even continuing, the war, but being (deliberately or perhaps accidentally) responsible for the obssession with magic. Then you get the best of both worlds - humanity is still responsible for the war, nobody's sacrifice is diminished, but you work in IE involvement.
By the same token, I can live with Leonardo the elf having been or having influenced Leonardo da Vinci. Da Vinci was such a spike in the smooth graph of humanity's progression that, from a writer's point of view, he's a natural for picking out to ascribe some alternative influence to.
I think the one thing we need to bear in mind when looking at history from an SR perspective is that, in a world where there are IE's and GD's (and especially egotisitcal bastards like Ehran and Alachia), we practically have to assume they've had some influence on events. Our goal as writers, then, is to decide how much influence and to locate suitable events to use as examples.
I do like the idea of Hitler and Himmler's obssession with the occult being the result of some kind of encounter with an IE or GD. It's historically such a... what's the word I'm looking for? Something that doesn't fit well into the overall scheme of things. You take my point? Now that would be good IE-fodder. Not starting, or even continuing, the war, but being (deliberately or perhaps accidentally) responsible for the obssession with magic. Then you get the best of both worlds - humanity is still responsible for the war, nobody's sacrifice is diminished, but you work in IE involvement.
By the same token, I can live with Leonardo the elf having been or having influenced Leonardo da Vinci. Da Vinci was such a spike in the smooth graph of humanity's progression that, from a writer's point of view, he's a natural for picking out to ascribe some alternative influence to.
I think the one thing we need to bear in mind when looking at history from an SR perspective is that, in a world where there are IE's and GD's (and especially egotisitcal bastards like Ehran and Alachia), we practically have to assume they've had some influence on events. Our goal as writers, then, is to decide how much influence and to locate suitable events to use as examples.
Gah. They Godwinned my thread.
To steer things back (Or, well, to attempt to do so hopelessly), the Dragons are rated at 10 for Great Status but none top Initiate 20 (And, in truth, probably all but Dunk and Lung are under 15) ... If the IEs come in at 90 or whatnot (Thus conflicting with published stuff), they'd have a wee bit of an edge, i'd think, instead of being under the GD power level, which they are.
Then again, I also wonder that, if a simple Magic Fingers 1 spell was nigh-impossible to cast during the downcycle, how hard would it have been to pick up, say, Initiate Grade 5 through a magical ritual? Could it be that magic worked, but at a cost? Say 100 Karma per Force of a spell to cast, 10,000 Karma per initiate grade earned? That'd bleed off that extra pretty fast, I'd think.
-- Johnny Reb, unboxed.
To steer things back (Or, well, to attempt to do so hopelessly), the Dragons are rated at 10 for Great Status but none top Initiate 20 (And, in truth, probably all but Dunk and Lung are under 15) ... If the IEs come in at 90 or whatnot (Thus conflicting with published stuff), they'd have a wee bit of an edge, i'd think, instead of being under the GD power level, which they are.
Then again, I also wonder that, if a simple Magic Fingers 1 spell was nigh-impossible to cast during the downcycle, how hard would it have been to pick up, say, Initiate Grade 5 through a magical ritual? Could it be that magic worked, but at a cost? Say 100 Karma per Force of a spell to cast, 10,000 Karma per initiate grade earned? That'd bleed off that extra pretty fast, I'd think.
-- Johnny Reb, unboxed.
We have a canon statement of how high Harlequin’s initiate grade is, or at least a range. If we accept your rationalization, then that just means he earned that much more karma.
~J
~J
Actually, considering that according to canon, Harlequin's stats are a series of asterisks, I'm going to guess his karma total is "*".
I always did hate rolling * dice.
Just don't tell your computer to roll them.
~J
Just don't tell your computer to roll them.
~J
| QUOTE (Kagetenshi) |
| We have a canon statement of how high Harlequin’s initiate grade is, or at least a range. If we accept your rationalization, then that just means he earned that much more karma. ~J |
Well, we have 'Double-digit grade' or even 'High Double-digit grade', but, we also have level 30 listed as 'Vastly more powerful than any living thing', so, I tend to think of 'High double-digit' as 15-20. He's not on par with Dunk, nor as powerful as the master of the Black Lodge (The strongest single magician in the 6th world), so, 15 sounds about right.
-- Johnny Reb
That's what I used to think, too. But I really don't think you can make a case for "high double-digit" until you've got at the very least more digits below you than above, and certainly not when you're at most a measly 20% on the scale of double-digits or lower.
~J
~J
I can see Reb's point that "high double digit" might be interpreted to mean, "high, double digit". In SR terms, Grade 20 is both high, and double digit. Largely a moot point since they don't have number values attached anyway. Harlequin, the plot device, will be as powerful as the plot requires. In a high powered game, he might have to be on the yon side of Grade 50. In a lower powered game, 20 might be all you need. He's going to come out different in every game he shows up in.
It really comes down to how many IE's can dance on the head of a pin, when you start talking about definable numbers.
It really comes down to how many IE's can dance on the head of a pin, when you start talking about definable numbers.
I don't think that's a reasonably defensible reinterpretation of the text, but the rest of your point stands.
~J
~J
It also depends completelely on your style. We had a DM who statted out Harlequin and Ehran for the Harlequin campaign. Why? Becuase he knew how the players would react and short of Flash or Superman, nobody dodges that many rounds. Sad to say in that campaign both died horrible deaths.
Why? Becuase we were playing the type of people who kill people who use us that way.
Did the GM even blink? No.
Did we blink when they miraculously returned from the dead? No.
Did they retaliate? They tried. two years of game play revolved around the games of tag untill finally we had enough and offered peace which they accepted.
Was it Canon? Who cares it was too much fun. Especially the three way fight between the Ex-Bodyguard, Harlequin, and Ehran. So many dice
Why? Becuase we were playing the type of people who kill people who use us that way.
Did the GM even blink? No.
Did we blink when they miraculously returned from the dead? No.
Did they retaliate? They tried. two years of game play revolved around the games of tag untill finally we had enough and offered peace which they accepted.
Was it Canon? Who cares it was too much fun. Especially the three way fight between the Ex-Bodyguard, Harlequin, and Ehran. So many dice
A Grade 10 initiate with liberal use of Anchoring and Quickening can take quite a few hits. Force 10 armor, plus Force 10 Limited Armor (Bullets), plus Improved Reactions +3 and a few Improved Attributes spells. Not un-killable, but could probably survive long enough to escape, at least.
Add in Superhuman mental stats and Elven quickness for Combat Pool, and Karma Pools between 30 and 50 (equivilent to GD as per DotSW), and a few high force Great Form Elementals on call.
On a somewhat realted note, I would kind of like to see stats for Leonardo. Asside from Harleqin, he's really the only other IE who doesn't fit with steriotypical IE mindset. How exactly does he access the Matrix?
Add in Superhuman mental stats and Elven quickness for Combat Pool, and Karma Pools between 30 and 50 (equivilent to GD as per DotSW), and a few high force Great Form Elementals on call.
On a somewhat realted note, I would kind of like to see stats for Leonardo. Asside from Harleqin, he's really the only other IE who doesn't fit with steriotypical IE mindset. How exactly does he access the Matrix?
Trodes or a datajack, I'd guess.
~J
~J
I thought he uised an optical cyberdeclk to read light beams. I figured he used magic to make lasers that sent the light to the deck.
All cyberdecks are optical
~J
~J
| QUOTE (lorthazar) |
| Becuase he knew how the players would react and short of Flash or Superman, nobody dodges that many rounds. |
The point of immortal elves and great dragons, using your bullet-dodging example and a bit of quote mutilation from The Matrix, is that they don't have to. I'll even use an example of one of my characters, rather than an immortal elf... though people who know of the character in question probably will roll their eyes at the "rather than an immortal elf" comment. Still, it's easily doable.
We take the spell "Personal Physical Barrier", which is Physical Barrier with the Personal spell modifier. He casts it into a Sustaining Focus(Force 6), and pours enough karma pool and spell pool into the casting to get the maximum of 12 successes(i.e. +Force to the Barrier Rating, which is initially rated at the spell's Force). All of a sudden, this character has a Barrier Rating of 12.
He then got into a bit of a skirmish with some shedim in a third-world nation, that included a number of formerly alive police forces with kalishnikovs. During the course of a running battle through a jungle, he took a half-dozen rounds from these weapons. At 8M, they didn't even penetrate his barrier. Even if they'd been using heavy machine guns or shotguns, at 10S, they wouldn't have penetrated his armor. Only sniper rifles would come close, and it'd be trivial to soak the final damage dealt by them. Bear in mind that these guys weren't special forces in life, so they weren't packing APDS.
The GM only mentioned that the rounds hit. There was no diceroll, because there was no need for a diceroll. With that kind of magical barrier, it's very difficult to harm a target with small-arms fire. The barrier ultimately ended up succumbing to the melee attack of a shedim that, through virtue of the feast available to one of its kind in the genocide campaign that had been going on, had managed to crank itself up to Force 12 with Spirit Energy of 7. He still survived the attack, and was able to destroy the shedim, but his barrier paid the price. Up and until that point, he was virtually untouchable with respect to physical attacks. When the shedim was toast, he re-cast the armor spell and was once more no longer terribly worried about a stray 7.62mm round or three.
Now, he's a powerful magician, but this isn't exactly a godlike spell. An Immortal Elf could likely(and would likely) have something like this at a much higher Force, and equally greater degree of success in the casting. We're talking Barrier Rating in the 20-range. They could take a hail of .50 rounds like a summer shower, probably even withstand a direct strike from a rocket or mortar. Why bother dodging, when (if you're smart, and they are) you have that kind of defense? Dodging just takes time away from retaliation.
Oh, and now, replace "Immortal Elf" with "Great Dragon", and think that they start off with at least 12 points of Hardened Armor. Suddenly, "nuke it from orbit" becomes more than just a salute to Aliens.
Like everything in SR, canon or not, YMMV.
The cybertechnology book was one of the silliest source books released, in my opinion.
I also know gamers who live and die by the book.
If you like IEs controlling and influencing history, go for it. If you don't, easily snipped from any game.
Personally, I enjoyed the clues and threads running through the source books and the shadowy ties to EarthDawn, but trying to interact with plot devices in any sort of meaningful fashion in-game would just be annoying. Being on a first-name basis with King Arthur just diminishes the overall fun of reading the books.
-Siege
The cybertechnology book was one of the silliest source books released, in my opinion.
I also know gamers who live and die by the book.
If you like IEs controlling and influencing history, go for it. If you don't, easily snipped from any game.
Personally, I enjoyed the clues and threads running through the source books and the shadowy ties to EarthDawn, but trying to interact with plot devices in any sort of meaningful fashion in-game would just be annoying. Being on a first-name basis with King Arthur just diminishes the overall fun of reading the books.
-Siege
I'm going to have Harley bring back the Round Table. Who should he choose for his new 'Merlin'?
Ehran 
I actually gave that some serious thought, but figured that Ehran'd refuse, so it'd be moot.
Aina. Hey, it's the 2060s, chummer! Nobody said Merlin HAD to be a male. And the Lady of the Lake needn't be female.
Merlin = Aina
Lady of the lake = Ehran
Merlin = Aina
Lady of the lake = Ehran
I always did think Ehran'd look good in a dress…
~J
~J
seriously. even if an IE is only grade 20, like Mercer's, why in the world would they not have a force 10+ personal barrier spell in place at all times? i know i sure as hell would.
First of all, 14 guys and the lightest weapon used at the moment was a Colt M22A2 firing IPE Offensive Grenades are going to wreak havoc on you no matter who you are. BTW we all had APDS or Explosive ammo and this was back in the day when Armor added dice to resistance tests.
Second We were no slouch we were each Prime RUnners at 400+ karma.
Third Sometimes it more fun in your own game world than in one that says 'he can't be killed'
Second We were no slouch we were each Prime RUnners at 400+ karma.
Third Sometimes it more fun in your own game world than in one that says 'he can't be killed'
| QUOTE |
| BTW we all had APDS or Explosive ammo and this was back in the day when Armor added dice to resistance tests. |
Nitpick but correct me if I'm wrong, but I never remember armor adding dice, I remember armor granting automatic sucesses way back in the stone ages.
Especially when you are playing one of those 'can't be killed' characters. 
400 karma? hahahahahahahahahahahahaha. woo, watch out for these guys!
i just don't see it. i mean, it's your game, and all, but i reserve the right to laugh at the idea of a couple of punk 400-karma runners shooting up harley and ehran.
i just don't see it. i mean, it's your game, and all, but i reserve the right to laugh at the idea of a couple of punk 400-karma runners shooting up harley and ehran.
SR2ed p 158
| QUOTE |
Armor A voluntary subject is required. The magician gives the subject built in armor, knitting his tissues into tougher compounds. Treat one-half the success made in the Spell Success test as th Dermal Armor Rating (add to Body) for as long as the spell is maintained. |
| QUOTE (mfb) |
| 400 karma? hahahahahahahahahahahahaha. woo, watch out for these guys! i just don't see it. i mean, it's your game, and all, but i reserve the right to laugh at the idea of a couple of punk 400-karma runners shooting up harley and ehran. |
Wasn't my game. Was another GM's and we weren't your average punks. Mainly becuase unlike most players we thought of how best to do the mission. And the fact that the average IQ of our players was in the 160's. And like our other games we got attached to our characters and ran them for a lot longer than most people do.
yeah, but how about the barrier spell? as i recall, that worked the same in SR2 as it does in SR3. toss that in a sustaining forcus at force 12 or so, and that M22 and underbarrel grenade launcher aren't going to do crap. toss it into a sustaining focus at force 20+, which is where i'd set it, and nothing short of a tacnuke is going to muss a hair on your head.
dude, it just doesn't matter. there's simply no way 400 karma characters should be able to come close to hurting an IE. it's just insane.
dude, it just doesn't matter. there's simply no way 400 karma characters should be able to come close to hurting an IE. it's just insane.
| QUOTE (lorthazar) |
| Mainly becuase unlike most players we thought of how best to do the mission. And the fact that the average IQ of our players was in the 160's. And like our other games we got attached to our characters and ran them for a lot longer than most people do. |
Do you know most players? Are you privy to the ins-and-outs of every single one of their gaming styles? Do you think you are unique in your supposedly high-brow, intellectual munchkinism? Do you think we are impressed?
If your answer to any of the above is yes, then you definitely need a reality check.
There's no way any given one or two 400 karma character should come close to hurting Teachdaire unless specifically prepared for it, let alone an IE.
And dude. Utter bull on your IQ stats. I've got an IQ of 150, a good ten points below your supposed "average level". I'm in the 99.97th percentile. Somehow, you managed to get a group of what, twelve guys together out of a group significantly smaller than three out of every ten thousand?
Convince me that somehow you managed to sift through the hundreds of thousands to get your players, and then we'll go into the fact that IQ and Shadowrunning (or most practical pursuits) have relatively little to do with one another.
~J
And dude. Utter bull on your IQ stats. I've got an IQ of 150, a good ten points below your supposed "average level". I'm in the 99.97th percentile. Somehow, you managed to get a group of what, twelve guys together out of a group significantly smaller than three out of every ten thousand?
Convince me that somehow you managed to sift through the hundreds of thousands to get your players, and then we'll go into the fact that IQ and Shadowrunning (or most practical pursuits) have relatively little to do with one another.
~J
| QUOTE (Kagetenshi) |
| There's no way any given one or two 400 karma character should come close to hurting Teachdaire unless specifically prepared for it, let alone an IE. And dude. Utter bull on your IQ stats. I've got an IQ of 150, a good ten points below your supposed "average level". I'm in the 99.97th percentile. Somehow, you managed to get a group of what, twelve guys together out of a group significantly smaller than three out of every ten thousand? Convince me that somehow you managed to sift through the hundreds of thousands to get your players, and then we'll go into the fact that IQ and Shadowrunning (or most practical pursuits) have relatively little to do with one another. ~J |
One or two i would agree, but there were fourteen of us, brimming with milspec weapons and pissed off.
Barrier spells are hardly hardened armor in fact you can degrade a barrier with a weapon of power below the barrier rating.
I've only gamed with one person that had a higher IQ than mine ... his was at 183 ... and he couldn't run games to save his life. Great player though, I wish we were still in touch.
*Hi Lee ... drop me an email and you can play a jaguar shapeshifter magical adept from Amazonia ... as soon as SoLA comes out!
*Hi Lee ... drop me an email and you can play a jaguar shapeshifter magical adept from Amazonia ... as soon as SoLA comes out!
| QUOTE (Kagetenshi) |
| There's no way any given one or two 400 karma character should come close to hurting Teachdaire unless specifically prepared for it, let alone an IE. And dude. Utter bull on your IQ stats. I've got an IQ of 150, a good ten points below your supposed "average level". I'm in the 99.97th percentile. Somehow, you managed to get a group of what, twelve guys together out of a group significantly smaller than three out of every ten thousand? Convince me that somehow you managed to sift through the hundreds of thousands to get your players, and then we'll go into the fact that IQ and Shadowrunning (or most practical pursuits) have relatively little to do with one another. ~J |
Well I scored a 182 the last time I took one. Which was four weeks ago.
Chief scored 185 but that was 10 years ago
Kale got a 141 but had a cold that week
Leon had a 160 our GM
Mark had a 150 like you and by the way it is more like 95% in this neck of the woods
Actually it's quite natural for the smarter people to congregate. i'm not saying a high IQ makes you a better player, but it has the advantage of letting you see the outcome of potetial choices.
Dare I ask where you are that is so massively outside of the bell curve? Honestly, a spike like that suggests that the test needs examination or renormalization more than anything else.
~J
~J
Or a wildly active imagination.
Actually it isn't that bad out of the bell curve, becuase our area also has a lot of people who are much lower on the chain. As for the norms they are calcualted on a world stage individual areas do fluctuate.
Or am i the only one who understands statistics? (sarcasm)
Or am i the only one who understands statistics? (sarcasm)
Actually Kagentashi, it's my understanding that you underestimated the commonality of us I.Q. 150s types. Last psych class I took placed those of our intelligence level or greater as the top 99.75%.
Just to give everybody a bit of perspective, I.Q. is basically a percentage of the average, so 100 is average. Usually, 90-110 is viewed as normal, and the top and bottom 2% are described as either mentally retarded (<78) or genius (>136).
Oh yeah, and life experience is pretty much always better than intelligence, lazy geniuses are regularly beaten by dedicated average people. YMMV, of course.
Based on the way lorthazar is throwing around numbers, I'm pretty sure he's never had any training in Psychology, but if he met his gaming buddies at Mensa or something, his story might theoretically be true.
Just to give everybody a bit of perspective, I.Q. is basically a percentage of the average, so 100 is average. Usually, 90-110 is viewed as normal, and the top and bottom 2% are described as either mentally retarded (<78) or genius (>136).
Oh yeah, and life experience is pretty much always better than intelligence, lazy geniuses are regularly beaten by dedicated average people. YMMV, of course.
Based on the way lorthazar is throwing around numbers, I'm pretty sure he's never had any training in Psychology, but if he met his gaming buddies at Mensa or something, his story might theoretically be true.
As always, it goes:
"Smart, dumb. I'm the guy with the gun."
"Smart, dumb. I'm the guy with the gun."
Gyro, I always heard it as "Right, wrong, I'm the guy with the gun." Do you know where the line originally came from?
Most likely, they took the IQ tests on the Internet. Pretty much every Internet test I've seen gives unrealistically high results, and makes no attempt to inform the test subject as to just how meaningless high numbers really are, even for accurate tests. Most of the legitimate tests I've seen, in fact, have a hard cap that gives a maximum possible result well below 180. The exceptions are childrens' tests, where age-adjusting can bump results way past ordinary limits, especially for precocious kids, but produces numbers that are really not comparable to adult numbers.
And it's:
"Good, bad, I'm the guy with the gun."
-- Cousin Bruce, as Ash in Army of Darkness
And it's:
"Good, bad, I'm the guy with the gun."
-- Cousin Bruce, as Ash in Army of Darkness
Actually I have never taken an online IQ test. And truth be told high number mean you test well.
I am one of those people who really is that smart. i have a near photographic memory. I read more than most people. I am quite curious. i learn quickly.
Still with all this i can do some of the stupidest things you have ever seen. it takes some on smart to do the really stupid things.
As for our characters being munchkin: You play every weekend completeing an average of one run a weekend. All runs ending extremely well. Each player adding Drama, humor, and excellent roleplaying and forming unexpected plans. We averaged six karma a run. After a year you have 312 karma. might seem munchkin, but only in the same way a 10th level fighter seems munckin to a 1st level fighter.
Finally: Cardinal Rule of playing: It's just a game
I am one of those people who really is that smart. i have a near photographic memory. I read more than most people. I am quite curious. i learn quickly.
Still with all this i can do some of the stupidest things you have ever seen. it takes some on smart to do the really stupid things.
As for our characters being munchkin: You play every weekend completeing an average of one run a weekend. All runs ending extremely well. Each player adding Drama, humor, and excellent roleplaying and forming unexpected plans. We averaged six karma a run. After a year you have 312 karma. might seem munchkin, but only in the same way a 10th level fighter seems munckin to a 1st level fighter.
Finally: Cardinal Rule of playing: It's just a game
High Karma is not necessarily synonymous with Munchkin.
400 karma chars arent necessarily munchkin, hell 2000 karma chars arent either. munchkin is a term best reserved for really weird combinations and flaws chosen specifically to min-max that make no sense whatsoever rp wise.. experienced does not mean munchkin.
a group of powerful chars could kill an ie or a GD, this is ok. it is the whole point of a proper sr game imho, that EVERYONE can be killed, and the refreshing change from hit point based games..
this is what makes people PLAN, and what keeps high karma chars from going around making stupid speeches.. <the "i am invincible" melodrama that is Soo tiring>. I have only seen one char make such a speech in a sr adventure and said char got an aimed assault cannon round to kiss for his trouble.
what makes an IE or GD so hard to kill is that you can never get into a `fair`combat with them, first you can never find them and if you do its in a way of their choosing, and that they can certainly estimate your threat level while you cant really estimate theirs. they also dont take risks.
that said, when ies start coming back from the dead the gm is doing something fishy, and when an ie or GD is actively hunting for you, there is really no way in hell a char is going to survive that unless the gm is `friendly` ( ya know the type.. the one scared or unwilling to kill characters ), and this doesnt require any superhuman powers, hell not even any cyber, just resources, and ies and GD`s have plenty. <50 mortars and one spotter spirit , for example, one low end mage and 50 mundanes for the mortars....or one truck with 20 tons of tnt, driven automatically, one mundane around for the detonator..there are just soooo many ways to kill a group if the ie can find them it isnt funny.. hell an ie can even arrange an `accidental misfire` from a battleship that takes out the cityblock you are in, if that is what it takes>
on the note of iq tests.. I took one or two once for fun, but they mean jack shit unless its the first one you ever take. see, if you do a couple you start scoring a lot better.. does that mean you all of a sudden got smarter? wow lets close down all schools and have kids take 2 iq tests a day then, we will all reach 180 that way! /end sarcasm.
sorry but there is no reliable way to measure intelligence today.
DS
a group of powerful chars could kill an ie or a GD, this is ok. it is the whole point of a proper sr game imho, that EVERYONE can be killed, and the refreshing change from hit point based games..
this is what makes people PLAN, and what keeps high karma chars from going around making stupid speeches.. <the "i am invincible" melodrama that is Soo tiring>. I have only seen one char make such a speech in a sr adventure and said char got an aimed assault cannon round to kiss for his trouble.
what makes an IE or GD so hard to kill is that you can never get into a `fair`combat with them, first you can never find them and if you do its in a way of their choosing, and that they can certainly estimate your threat level while you cant really estimate theirs. they also dont take risks.
that said, when ies start coming back from the dead the gm is doing something fishy, and when an ie or GD is actively hunting for you, there is really no way in hell a char is going to survive that unless the gm is `friendly` ( ya know the type.. the one scared or unwilling to kill characters ), and this doesnt require any superhuman powers, hell not even any cyber, just resources, and ies and GD`s have plenty. <50 mortars and one spotter spirit , for example, one low end mage and 50 mundanes for the mortars....or one truck with 20 tons of tnt, driven automatically, one mundane around for the detonator..there are just soooo many ways to kill a group if the ie can find them it isnt funny.. hell an ie can even arrange an `accidental misfire` from a battleship that takes out the cityblock you are in, if that is what it takes>
on the note of iq tests.. I took one or two once for fun, but they mean jack shit unless its the first one you ever take. see, if you do a couple you start scoring a lot better.. does that mean you all of a sudden got smarter? wow lets close down all schools and have kids take 2 iq tests a day then, we will all reach 180 that way! /end sarcasm.
sorry but there is no reliable way to measure intelligence today.
DS
| QUOTE (Just Jonny) |
| Actually Kagentashi, it's my understanding that you underestimated the commonality of us I.Q. 150s types. Last psych class I took placed those of our intelligence level or greater as the top 99.75%. |
It's 99.97 on the WAIS, according to the material I've got hanging around.
~J
There's a billion different scales of measuring IQ. I suppose on some scales the top 2 percentile is around 200, and you are only dumb if you score below 0. Even on the plenty generous scale Mensa uses in Finland (where 148 is the top 2 percentile), 182 would be in the top 0.022 percentile, 185 in the top 0.013. On that scale, both would be well fit for several (mythical?) "clubs for the ultragenius" inside Mensa; out of every ten thousand people, you two would statistically have the highest IQs. Of course, as said, depending on the test the IQ figure might only show that a person is good at completing graphical sequences, which is impossible to tell through text written on a forum, and doesn't have a real influence into how you live your life. And if you were correct about the 150 being top 5%, then the scale is about 30% more generous than the one I used above.
As for the IE-killing, I think it's been addressed pretty well by others.
As for the IE-killing, I think it's been addressed pretty well by others.
Obviously we're all going to find different stats for IQ frequency, but just to add my 0.02 
.
IQ 137-150 is 0.9% of the population
IQ 150-160 is 0.1% of the population
IQ 160-174 is 0.01% of the population
IQ 174 and up is 0.0099% of the population
And if the GM couldn't think of a way for an IE to stop a 14 relative punks, he was either going way too easy, or needs a re-test. I'm guessing he just didn't have the heart to kill you all.
Oooh, or maybe, MAYBE the IE realized that you 14 would be annoying if he let you live, but didn't want to kill you, and so FAKED HIS OWN DEATH! It's brilliant!!!
.IQ 137-150 is 0.9% of the population
IQ 150-160 is 0.1% of the population
IQ 160-174 is 0.01% of the population
IQ 174 and up is 0.0099% of the population
And if the GM couldn't think of a way for an IE to stop a 14 relative punks, he was either going way too easy, or needs a re-test. I'm guessing he just didn't have the heart to kill you all.
Oooh, or maybe, MAYBE the IE realized that you 14 would be annoying if he let you live, but didn't want to kill you, and so FAKED HIS OWN DEATH! It's brilliant!!!
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