First of all we did the killing in the middle of the duel in the Harlequin campaign. No hunting, no nothing we just opened fire becuase we were tired of being pawns. Not something I persoanlly would do, but hey I personally don't have wired refelxes 3 and Firearms 16 either.
Second, It's my assumption that the GM ruled that the two IE's had sent proxies of sorts.
Third, the mount games of cat and mouse were merely that. All three sides trying to prove they were supperior. All in all 14 high karma runners is equal to an IE but not two, but try to get Harlequin and Ehran to work together.
Finally, it's not that our DM was friendly it was that he suffered form the ability to roll all 1's and 2's when it came to trying to kill PC's. If he wasn't trying there wouldn't be a single die less than 4 it was funny as hell.
Full Version: Intiate Grades ... who's the big gun?
You don't have to defend your game, just don't expect everyone to accept it as reasonable or "average".
Also, I would like to point out the total laughability of proclaiming your supposed genius-level IQ on an internet forum.
Also, I would like to point out the total laughability of proclaiming your supposed genius-level IQ on an internet forum.
Well, I was just telling you what I got. Personally I could care less about the number. I could also care less about what 99% of you guys think about anything. I was merely clarifying for those people who fail to wrap the minds around the fact that the game is supposed to be fun.
someone can check this for me, but i don't believe a weapon with a power lower than the barrier's actual rating can degrade the rating. your weapon's power has to at least equal the barrier rating in order for any degradation to occur; below that, the attack simply bounces off.
If the power of the attack is equal to more than half of the effective barrier rating (2x normal in the case of bullets) it takes a 1 reduction in barrier rating.
p.124 SR 3rd Ed
now for the lovely part both APDS and Explosive rounds half the Barrier rating when it comes to damaging them.
So a Ares Predator firing Ex Explosive ammo can start chiping away and a barrier of 10 with ease
finally BF an FA work normally
p.124 SR 3rd Ed
now for the lovely part both APDS and Explosive rounds half the Barrier rating when it comes to damaging them.
So a Ares Predator firing Ex Explosive ammo can start chiping away and a barrier of 10 with ease
finally BF an FA work normally
| QUOTE (lorthazar @ Dec 8 2004, 10:58 AM) |
| but try to get Harlequin and Ehran to work together. |
I don't know. Someone shoots at me and my nemesis while we're in a duel that goes back millennia, as gentlemen of honor I'd expect both of us to stop fighting for the few seconds it would take to blast the shit out of them.
YMMV
Hey, I wasn't the GM. He must have thought that being knocked down by the grenedes and having over a hundred projectiles to deal with was too much for even them.
barrier 10, okay. but, like i said, if you really stat out an IE the way it would make the most sense to stat them after tens of millennia of running around, that barrier spell should probably be 20+. probably much, much +. and the reason why is that there are people who will attempt to do just what your group did. if you've got tens of thousands of years to prepare for any eventuality, i'm pretty sure that "super duper ninja squad with high-powered automatic weapons and also grenades" is going to be pretty high on the list of things to make sure you're prepared for.
though, of course, as GM, i might be tempted to have one or both of them cast an illusion that suggested the super duper ninja squad had actually killed them both.
though, of course, as GM, i might be tempted to have one or both of them cast an illusion that suggested the super duper ninja squad had actually killed them both.
Just out of curiosity, how does one realistically and with any measure of control, plot, role playing, ect. GM for a group of 14? For that matter, where the hell do you all sit?
Just passing through.
Just passing through.
Well maybe and maybe not. A 20+ barrier would show up to shamans and remember this was 2nd edition. Which means you'd need a personal barrier for blasts, personal barrier for bullets, a personal barrier for... well you get the picture
Now imagine multiple FA weapons firing rounds that treat barriers like tissue paper. grenades is a small area, an Ares MPIII laser, and a Missile launcher firing AVR's. Sorry but i don't care if you are Lowfyr, your gonna be in trouble.
Now imagine multiple FA weapons firing rounds that treat barriers like tissue paper. grenades is a small area, an Ares MPIII laser, and a Missile launcher firing AVR's. Sorry but i don't care if you are Lowfyr, your gonna be in trouble.
| QUOTE (Deadeye) |
| Just out of curiosity, how does one realistically and with any measure of control, plot, role playing, ect. GM for a group of 14? For that matter, where the hell do you all sit? Just passing through. |
Actually it's tough as hell becuase i have done it, but when you have players who don't backstab each other too much and help with some of the more onerous chores it's easier.
| QUOTE (Bigity) |
| Also, I would like to point out the total laughability of proclaiming your supposed genius-level IQ on an internet forum. |
Happens all the time around here...Apparnetly most DSers are geniuses.
Not that its any of my business but when the lead started flying why didn't Harley and Ehran teleport?
To tell the truth I'm not sure they didn't and leave behind simulacrums. I was a mere player. It did make for a very exciting two years of game play as the games went back and forth. I think our GM wasn't happy with what he thought was a limited ending. He hated being given tools and nothing to do with them. Through the 2 years Harlequins attmepts at revenge were humorous and ultimately worked for the betterment of an area at the expense of the players. Ehrans attempts helped his cuases in similiar ways again at our expense. our attempts ussually ended as spectacular failures that still netted us some profit by seeming chance.
no, there's a regular personal barrier spell in 2nd ed. the bullet barrier / blast barrier / petunia barrier spells in the Grim reference it. also, i'm pretty sure they had masking in 2nd ed as well.
| QUOTE (lorthazar @ Dec 8 2004, 06:14 PM) |
| Hey, I wasn't the GM. He must have thought that being knocked down by the grenedes and having over a hundred projectiles to deal with was too much for even them. |
Yeah, no offense, but I don;t think there's any way I could chalk that whole thing up to anything other than GM's incompetence or fiat in allowing you to succeed.
| QUOTE |
| Not that its any of my business but when the lead started flying why didn't Harley and Ehran teleport? |
or before even, they can read your aura like they read the sunday paper... the list goes on and on and on.
The reality that if damn near any NPC wants a PC dead they can do it. And there's nothing you can do about it. All they need is a moderate amount of resources and knowledge of your location. Even 3000 karma isn't enough to stop that from happening.
The reality that if damn near any NPC wants a PC dead they can do it. And there's nothing you can do about it. All they need is a moderate amount of resources and knowledge of your location. Even 3000 karma isn't enough to stop that from happening.
Maybe nothing you can do about it, but I tend to think more proactively.
Besides it's not the GM's job to kill the PC's if you are among this thinking please do the world a favor and give up GMing. What fun is it to have your character keep dying even when they are acting smart?
Besides it's not the GM's job to kill the PC's if you are among this thinking please do the world a favor and give up GMing. What fun is it to have your character keep dying even when they are acting smart?
| QUOTE (lorthazar) |
| Maybe nothing you can do about it, but I tend to think more proactively. Besides it's not the GM's job to kill the PC's if you are among this thinking please do the world a favor and give up GMing. What fun is it to have your character keep dying even when they are acting smart? |
I never said it was the GM's job to kill PC's. It's not. It's the GM's job to provide a world in thich the PC's interact. A lot of the time, especially in any world where actions have consequences not only is "acting smart" entirely subjective, but it's not a licence to keep on surviving. There's a lot to be said for actually earning things.
Which may have been his point with bring back the IE's or knowing him the way I do why he encouraged us to fire on them. Our characters while not having the easy life were not sweating too heavily when breaking into Aztechnology or Ares. Even with revved up opposition we were pulling off runs easily. However we like the social intereactions with our runners and were heavily invested in their lives. This might have been his way of bring some interest to the game. After the two years we started our Bug and Toxic Wars. Then the year of the cyberzombies. It was a blast.
| QUOTE (lorthazar) |
| I am one of those people who really is that smart. i have a near photographic memory. I read more than most people. I am quite curious. i learn quickly. |
Wow. All that, and you still can't write a grammatically correct, properly sentence formatted, correctly spelled, properly capitalized, post on a game-oriented on-line BBS. Amazing.
If you and your Einstein-was-a-retard scale gaming group are so amazingly bright, why are you sitting around wasting your statistic-breaking intellects on gaming and getting defensive about your game of make-believe on the Internet? Shouldn't you be banding together to save the world or something? Or helping one another find the shift key, at the very least?
Becuase if we saved the world, we would have to save people like you.
I'm sorry you have to get your kicks insulting other people. Especially people who had done nothing to you. Of course, that is not going to help your real problem.
I'm sorry you have to get your kicks insulting other people. Especially people who had done nothing to you. Of course, that is not going to help your real problem.
Sorry, just pointing out the lack of logic behind your claims. I mean, it's one thing to claim your make believe people did horrible things to some other make believe people. That's a game. Your GM can run it however he wants, you can brag about it as much as you want, and other people can point out the holes in your version as much as they want. It's why we're all here.
But, well, when you start trying to throw your imaginary weight around rattling off a well-nigh superhuman list of (imaginary?) names and (imaginary?) IQ's to try and browbeat people into agreeing with your internet forum opinion, I think we're allowed to poke a little fun, bud. Chill.
Go back and reread a few of your posts, understand the irony of the incomplete sentences, lack of the spell-check button being used, etc, etc, all in the same paragraph you claim to be a supergenius surrounded by others of your inhuman kind.
It really is funny, and it's the sort of attention you've brought upon yourself.
But, well, when you start trying to throw your imaginary weight around rattling off a well-nigh superhuman list of (imaginary?) names and (imaginary?) IQ's to try and browbeat people into agreeing with your internet forum opinion, I think we're allowed to poke a little fun, bud. Chill.
Go back and reread a few of your posts, understand the irony of the incomplete sentences, lack of the spell-check button being used, etc, etc, all in the same paragraph you claim to be a supergenius surrounded by others of your inhuman kind.
It really is funny, and it's the sort of attention you've brought upon yourself.
come on, lorthazar. you can't expect to make a claim like that on an online forum and not get laughed at. even if it's true, no one's going to believe you, because there are tens of thousands of people making the same claim falsely. same goes, honestly, for having 400-karma characters kill IEs, though for different reasons. in the vast majority of SR games, that's so impossible as to be laughable. so, we're laughing.
Ah, but therein lies the problem of anounching your IQ to the world. WHen it is so abnormaly high as to be unbelievable, it can easily be seen as an insult to the intelegence of everyone else.
Even if it is true, stating it publicly still accomplishes nothing other than make others feel inferior, and thus insulted. So by other's perceptions, you started the insulting.
This is why IQ should be kept to yourself.
and incase yer curious, and because everyone else is waving their metaphorical brain penis around, My IQ is in the 99.9~percentile too, although I do have to struggle with a bitching case of ADD, lowering my applied IQ to the low genius (~149) range. =P This is on the WAIS-III.
Now that we've all waved our mental peni' around,and no one belives anyone else, lets get back to IE's
Isnt Alachia the oldest of the current living IE's? I think i remember reading that somewhere, with Aina coming in next, and Harly Ehran and Lugh being next in age range.
Even if it is true, stating it publicly still accomplishes nothing other than make others feel inferior, and thus insulted. So by other's perceptions, you started the insulting.
This is why IQ should be kept to yourself.
and incase yer curious, and because everyone else is waving their metaphorical brain penis around, My IQ is in the 99.9~percentile too, although I do have to struggle with a bitching case of ADD, lowering my applied IQ to the low genius (~149) range. =P This is on the WAIS-III.
Now that we've all waved our mental peni' around,and no one belives anyone else, lets get back to IE's
Isnt Alachia the oldest of the current living IE's? I think i remember reading that somewhere, with Aina coming in next, and Harly Ehran and Lugh being next in age range.
I don't mind the question of the campaign. Hell, I have questions. The point is it was done. As impossible as being killed by a 5mph baseball. Oh wait, that has happened, too. So what if you think it is impossible. None of these beings existed except in our imagination. So in yours they are unkillable. In mine they are quite easily killed if surprised or tricked.
What I mind is the continuing insults to my friends. You can bash me all you want. Keep sniping at them and you prove yourself a coward and a fool rather than just a fool.
My claims of my IQ were in no way meant to be an insult to anyone. Nor to make others feel inferior. Just an explanation of why I might think differently.
What I mind is the continuing insults to my friends. You can bash me all you want. Keep sniping at them and you prove yourself a coward and a fool rather than just a fool.
My claims of my IQ were in no way meant to be an insult to anyone. Nor to make others feel inferior. Just an explanation of why I might think differently.
yes, we're all fools because we don't believe someone's claims, made on an online forum, to genioushood. what dummies we are.
Maybe you are and maybe you aren't. Only you can decide that. I freely admit to being a fool sometimes. Especially when I start insulting people I don't know. my insults may be accurate, but that does not make me less of a fool for making them.
What I mind is a thread that devolves into a Cowboys and Indians argument. Like, for instance, "I killed Ehran!" "You couldn't have killed Ehran!" "But I did!" "Ehran has a force field!" "I have an anti-force field ray!" "Your Gm's Stupid!" "You're stupid!"
I think we can all agree that we are all clearly geniuses, because we have just spent about a day and a half arguing if imaginary characters could kill ficitonal people on a piece of graph paper.
I think we can all agree that we are all clearly geniuses, because we have just spent about a day and a half arguing if imaginary characters could kill ficitonal people on a piece of graph paper.
Good point and if we were any wiser we would have realized this hours ago.
well, geniuses often have sick, depraved hobbies.
at any rate, before the madness happened, we were talking about initiate grades. personally, i can't reconcile "has been alive for tens of thousands of years" with "grade 30". unless the rules of magic worked vastly differently in T5W (which is, i suppose, not out of the question at all), IEs should be much, much higher than grade 30.
at any rate, before the madness happened, we were talking about initiate grades. personally, i can't reconcile "has been alive for tens of thousands of years" with "grade 30". unless the rules of magic worked vastly differently in T5W (which is, i suppose, not out of the question at all), IEs should be much, much higher than grade 30.
Unless there is a point of diminshing returns. Or the possiblility of branching to other forms of magic. What if at Initiate grade 30 you get to start buying physad powers at 10 karma a pop? That could make life interesting. Perhaps they have to invest a substantial amount of karma into their physical well being. perhaps it's impossible to initiate during the down cycle and karma earned during that time cannot be used for future initiation. Many possible answers
So then even in that unlikely event, they spend their time raising their non-magical skills to unbelievable levels, and just raise their magic during the multiple thousands of years that they live in upcycles.
| QUOTE (Fortune) |
| So then even in that unlikely event, they spend their time raising their non-magical skills to unbelievable levels, and just raise their magic during the multiple thousands of years that they live in upcycles. |
That's how I've treated them. The characters in my game don't know that they're dealing with IE's yet (so they're hardly fully stated out), but I put their mundane skills a lot higher than their magic skills. (not to say they were magical weenies or anything, just that their mundane skills were absurdly higher)
Just to clarify, some of these IE's were born in the 2nd age? I know Earthdawn was the 4th age, but what was the 2nd age like? When was it?
It's worth pointing out, I think, that most of the IE's would be physmages of one flavor or another, if they were statted up realistically (and if "realistically" meant "in line with what's known about them in Earthdawn").
Most of them weren't just Wizards or Elementalists of Nethermancers, but were rather dual-Disciplined (or triple, IIRC), as Archers, Warriors, or Swordsmasters, as well (generally equal to their spellcaster-type Circle, as well). If a GM really wants to give them numbers for everything, he'd probably best go ahead and give them some pretty high numbers for quite a bit more than just spellcasting and summoning.
Most of them weren't just Wizards or Elementalists of Nethermancers, but were rather dual-Disciplined (or triple, IIRC), as Archers, Warriors, or Swordsmasters, as well (generally equal to their spellcaster-type Circle, as well). If a GM really wants to give them numbers for everything, he'd probably best go ahead and give them some pretty high numbers for quite a bit more than just spellcasting and summoning.
| QUOTE (lorthazar) |
| And the fact that the average IQ of our players was in the 160's. |
The FACT, huh?
We just got off of this so can we let it rest.
I suppose in the dopwn time magic may also have required Karma just to use. So if they did anything it cost them some of that spiritual development.
I suppose in the dopwn time magic may also have required Karma just to use. So if they did anything it cost them some of that spiritual development.
| QUOTE (lorthazar) |
| After some years (and many recent purchases) I have decided to come back to the world of Shadowrun. |
After SOME YEARS, huh?
~J
Or maybe not. It hasn't been stipulated what the exact requirements were for performing magic during a downcycle, other than it takes considerably more effort (in the form of time). Humans of both traditions would have been able to work it (and have according to canon fluff), but it took a long, involved ritual. This from people who have no real experience in mana manipulation, so one would think that someone who actually knew what they were doing would have slightly less trouble.
Two or three remember I played from the beginning
| QUOTE (lorthazar) |
| We just got off of this so can we let it rest. I suppose in the dopwn time magic may also have required Karma just to use. So if they did anything it cost them some of that spiritual development. |
What, if any, source did you pull this idea from?
| QUOTE (lorthazar) |
| Two or three remember I played from the beginning |
I know. It was just my own strange sense of humor resulting in my finding it amusing to take the idea of dredging up already-covered topics to the greatest extreme I could.
~J
It isn't an old topic if the thread is still active. Besides, there are people from this community who haven't logged on and seen some of the inane comments yet, and they also have a right to deride such idiocy.
That doesn't change my excessive amusement at making that post 
~J
~J
| QUOTE (Kagetenshi) |
| That doesn't change my excessive amusement at making that post |
Hell no! I was giving reason for why the IQ topic was brought up again ... and likely will be in the future as well.
Seems like there's good arguments for either side. On the one hand, if you lived forever, you'd have lots of life experience. On the other hand if you're human, you probably don't remember anything except for the highlights that are more than a hundred years old. Hell, I can barely remember stuff from the class I took last week...Either way, it's the GM's call which way makes a better story for the players.
As far as lothazar's game where his team killed the IEs, it sounds like they all had a good time, and that's really the only part that counts.
As far as lothazar's game where his team killed the IEs, it sounds like they all had a good time, and that's really the only part that counts.
"I've forgotten more than you'll ever learn!!!
Now, give me one of those.... fire... twig... thingies."
"A match?"
"Yes a... DREK, I just forgot how to conjure great form watcher spirits!"
Now, give me one of those.... fire... twig... thingies."
"A match?"
"Yes a... DREK, I just forgot how to conjure great form watcher spirits!"
This has evolved into one of the most entertaining threads ever. I needed a good laugh, thank you. 
I´m sorry if you feel offended. You really shouldn´t, it just aint good to take yourself to seriously.
Just an open advise to all the geniuses of dumpshock: Don´t let your result on that test give you hubris. Regular, dumb people sometimes have interesting things to say. My advise is to try and forget about your IQ in all social occations, and try to listen to everybody without pre-judging the value of their opinions.
<<<edit>>> You´re in the clear though Kage. I mean, you acctually listned to me a few times, and I can´t figure out one of those wierd puzzel-book problems.
I´m sorry if you feel offended. You really shouldn´t, it just aint good to take yourself to seriously.Just an open advise to all the geniuses of dumpshock: Don´t let your result on that test give you hubris. Regular, dumb people sometimes have interesting things to say. My advise is to try and forget about your IQ in all social occations, and try to listen to everybody without pre-judging the value of their opinions.
<<<edit>>> You´re in the clear though Kage. I mean, you acctually listned to me a few times, and I can´t figure out one of those wierd puzzel-book problems.
*Gasp* What, no puzzle-book problems? Now I must try to remember what I listened to you about and forget it all right now!
(Continuation of the thought spoilertagged)
That being said, if you want some help looking at the weird puzzle-book problems the right way, or good places to find more, just PM me
Back on topic! We have a canon statement of Harlequin's initiatory grade. Some people have suggested we also have statements of the initiatory grades of some Dragons. While it seems odd that they would initiate, are there any suggestions for how, within the context of the Shadowrun/Earthdawn world, we could make sense of these figures?
~J
(Continuation of the thought spoilertagged)
[ Spoiler ]
That being said, if you want some help looking at the weird puzzle-book problems the right way, or good places to find more, just PM me
Back on topic! We have a canon statement of Harlequin's initiatory grade. Some people have suggested we also have statements of the initiatory grades of some Dragons. While it seems odd that they would initiate, are there any suggestions for how, within the context of the Shadowrun/Earthdawn world, we could make sense of these figures?
~J
I think I can do without those advise, because I don´t think I´m going to take an IQ test if I don´t have to. (I´ve tried some of the problems, but never a complete test). What good would it do? If I got a good result I would have to combat illusions of grandure. If I got a bad result it would prevent me from secretly thinking I´m better than everyone else.
Sorry no thoughts on the actual subject. I just thought my previous might provoke a reply of some kind, so I stayed online. Going to bed now. 1 AM were I´m at.
Sorry no thoughts on the actual subject. I just thought my previous might provoke a reply of some kind, so I stayed online. Going to bed now. 1 AM were I´m at.
Who cares about the tests? Puzzles are fun! 
~J
~J
Oh. Guess I missunderstood.
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