I'm glad we've got that worked out.
But for Christ's sake, when are those Hermetic bastards gonna stop being so crazy overpowered compared to my poor Shamen?! The game's broken! The sky's falling! I'm switching systems!
Full Version: Is it just me or are Adepts still the weakest link
You think you got it bad. When are all these magic/cyber/bio/adept going to be fixed so they no longer outclass my completely mundane, uncybered characters? Its insane. I mean, the million tech sammie and the anti-anti-adept-sammie-adept use the same number of priorities as my Skills A, Stats B, Race C Elven Rocker/Masseuse, so when they're locked in a 10x10 room together or go into the Thunderdome, they should be evenly matched, right? Otherwise the system is broken.
I think I see your problem you built a Rocker/Massuese. Maybe you'd have better luck with just a Rocker or a Massuese.
Sure Kevyn - just rub that in.
-Siege
-Siege
Somebody had too.
| QUOTE (mfb) |
| cynic, are you insane? which part of SR3 page 282, where it describes ultrasound goggles, did you not read? and how is the sam going to get 'beter' ears than an adept, who can get five levels of select sound filter for 0.25pp? an adept can get any mod a sam can get, and the adept can get it cheaper. besides which, the sam would have to stage that same damage from the superbright flash, unless the sam sets the flash off from more than 30m away--and, again, what's keeping the adpept from using a superflash? superflashes are not a sam-only weapon, anyone can use them. |
Now I coiuld be wrong, but adepts get their sound filters just like sammies. In levels.
Incorrect. Taken from the Shadowrun FAQ,
| QUOTE |
| If an adept with the Improved Sense power chooses a sense that normally has levels (select sound filter, vision magnification), do they have to spend .25 power points per level? No. The adept simply pays .25 power points and receives the sense at the highest level (select sound filter 5, vision magnification 3). |
So all the adept has to do is spend .25 of a power point and they would receive the equivalent of a level five sound filter.
you (cynic) would be mistaken. adepts get the maximum level of any improved sense they take.
Up to their magic level in rating, according to SR3 so you can't have infinity rating Imp. Sense (Smell), for example.
right. for instance, my adept with Olfactory Boost only has 6 levels of it, since she has 6 magic.
OTOH, as you progress you could get enough effective dice to taste someone's presence across the Sprawl.
And everyone in between too. Mmmm...
What an interesting smell you've discovered.
What an interesting smell you've discovered.
Improved Sense (Smell) is one power with one level. But the equivalent level to Olfactory Boost senseware is undefined/infinite.
For all of you curmudgeons out there, I have my decidedly versatile PhysAd character right here.
Character:
“Harold”
Troll PhysAd (Priority B,C)
(10, 25 pts)
Stats: (priority A)
Strength: 10
Body: 10(11)
Quickness: 5
Intelligence: 4
Willpower: 4
Charisma: 1
Reaction: 4 (10)
Magic: 6
Abilities:
Troll:
+1 Reach for Armed/Unarmed combat
Effective L1 Dermal Armor
Thermalgraphic Vision
3 points of Recoil Comphensation.
PhysAd:
(3)Improved Reflexes 2 (+4 reaction, +2 initiative dice)
(2)Killing Hands 2 (Unarmed combat does 10S damage, normal or stun)
(0.25)Improved Scent-Allows character to smell as if a bloodhound.
(.5)Pain Resistance 1-Reduces wound category modifiers by 1.
(0.25)Flare Comphensation-See cybereye rules.
Edges:
2pts- Quick Healer (-2 on all Healing tests)
1pt- Bravery (-1 on all Fear-related rolls)
1pt- Perfect Time
2pts- Astral Chameleon
Flaws:
-1pt: Compulsive 1 (Always wears his Kippah)
-1pt: Distinctive Style, -1 to Tracking rolls by opponents. (He looks like a gorilla.)
-4pts: Sensitive Neural Structure
Skills(priority D): Level:
Weapons:
Sporting Rifles(R-950) 4/6
Unarmed Combat 6
Edged Weapons 6
Other:
Stealth 5
Athletics 6
Bike 2
Languages:
Chinese:2
English:2
Korean:2
Knowledge Skills:
Street:
Fringe Cults-2
Security Procedures-5
6th World:
Zen Buddhism-4
Survival Skills-4 (i.e. which mushrooms are tasty, and which will make you see purple harmonicas.)
Corporate Relations (what’s a subsidy of what)-3
Intrests/Hobbies
Hunting-2
Equipment (Priority E)
As you can see, this guy is no one-trick pony. Intended for use in a "covert ops"-y sort of campaign, he can sneak up behind guards and take them out silently with Killing Hands (which do a whopping 10S damage), or by sniping them from a nearby location. His Athletics 6 and olfactory ability also make him excellent at tracking anything imaginable, as well as sniffing out explosives and such. And, of course, he's no slouch in melee combat either; 10S damage is nothing to scoff at, and his adjusted body of 11 makes him pretty darn hard to kill.
EDIT: Fixed the problem pertaining to Reflexes, but the Recoil thing is a house rule, as we do'nt have a copy of FoF between us. (Heck, I'm using a copy of SR1 and a PDF I found of SR3. to make this thing).
And yes, the character looks a bit like a gorilla when doing....almost anything. He's got a lot of body hair. He ended up in a very magically active zone near Tibet during his goblinization, and was under treatment for a disease (a Tay-Sachs variant) at the time that was causing mental retardation. Presto! Sensitive neural structure from the quickly-regenerated intelligence, and a decededly rounded snout and prediliction for fruit.
Besides, few things are cooler than howling 800-pound Kung-Fu gorillas.
As long as I'm here, could someone explain the Weapon Focus rules? They're a bit sketchy in SR3, and as I said earlier, I do'nt have any of the necessary books.
-SpasticTeapot.
SECOND EDIT:
Yes, this is a Judeo-Bhuddist gorrila-troll PhysAd. Yes, I am crazy. And yes, I editied the Wiki to correct a few details that became inaccurate about 1,600 years ago.
Character:
“Harold”
Troll PhysAd (Priority B,C)
(10, 25 pts)
Stats: (priority A)
Strength: 10
Body: 10(11)
Quickness: 5
Intelligence: 4
Willpower: 4
Charisma: 1
Reaction: 4 (10)
Magic: 6
Abilities:
Troll:
+1 Reach for Armed/Unarmed combat
Effective L1 Dermal Armor
Thermalgraphic Vision
3 points of Recoil Comphensation.
PhysAd:
(3)Improved Reflexes 2 (+4 reaction, +2 initiative dice)
(2)Killing Hands 2 (Unarmed combat does 10S damage, normal or stun)
(0.25)Improved Scent-Allows character to smell as if a bloodhound.
(.5)Pain Resistance 1-Reduces wound category modifiers by 1.
(0.25)Flare Comphensation-See cybereye rules.
Edges:
2pts- Quick Healer (-2 on all Healing tests)
1pt- Bravery (-1 on all Fear-related rolls)
1pt- Perfect Time
2pts- Astral Chameleon
Flaws:
-1pt: Compulsive 1 (Always wears his Kippah)
-1pt: Distinctive Style, -1 to Tracking rolls by opponents. (He looks like a gorilla.)
-4pts: Sensitive Neural Structure
Skills(priority D): Level:
Weapons:
Sporting Rifles(R-950) 4/6
Unarmed Combat 6
Edged Weapons 6
Other:
Stealth 5
Athletics 6
Bike 2
Languages:
Chinese:2
English:2
Korean:2
Knowledge Skills:
Street:
Fringe Cults-2
Security Procedures-5
6th World:
Zen Buddhism-4
Survival Skills-4 (i.e. which mushrooms are tasty, and which will make you see purple harmonicas.)
Corporate Relations (what’s a subsidy of what)-3
Intrests/Hobbies
Hunting-2
Equipment (Priority E)
As you can see, this guy is no one-trick pony. Intended for use in a "covert ops"-y sort of campaign, he can sneak up behind guards and take them out silently with Killing Hands (which do a whopping 10S damage), or by sniping them from a nearby location. His Athletics 6 and olfactory ability also make him excellent at tracking anything imaginable, as well as sniffing out explosives and such. And, of course, he's no slouch in melee combat either; 10S damage is nothing to scoff at, and his adjusted body of 11 makes him pretty darn hard to kill.
EDIT: Fixed the problem pertaining to Reflexes, but the Recoil thing is a house rule, as we do'nt have a copy of FoF between us. (Heck, I'm using a copy of SR1 and a PDF I found of SR3. to make this thing).
And yes, the character looks a bit like a gorilla when doing....almost anything. He's got a lot of body hair. He ended up in a very magically active zone near Tibet during his goblinization, and was under treatment for a disease (a Tay-Sachs variant) at the time that was causing mental retardation. Presto! Sensitive neural structure from the quickly-regenerated intelligence, and a decededly rounded snout and prediliction for fruit.
Besides, few things are cooler than howling 800-pound Kung-Fu gorillas.
As long as I'm here, could someone explain the Weapon Focus rules? They're a bit sketchy in SR3, and as I said earlier, I do'nt have any of the necessary books.
-SpasticTeapot.
SECOND EDIT:
Yes, this is a Judeo-Bhuddist gorrila-troll PhysAd. Yes, I am crazy. And yes, I editied the Wiki to correct a few details that became inaccurate about 1,600 years ago.
| QUOTE |
| (3)Improved Reflexes 3 (+6 reaction, +3 initiative dice) |
Improves Reflexes 3 costs 5 Power Points, not 3.
| QUOTE |
| (.5)Pain Resistance 1-Reduces wound category modifiers by 1. |
Pain Resistance does not reduce modifiers by anything. It lets the Adept ignore the penalties from (in this case) a Light Wound. If he takes another Light Wound, he would have a modifier.
| QUOTE |
| 3 points of Recoil Comphensation. |
Doesn't a Strength of 10 only grant 2 points of Recoil Compensation?
No Etiquette and lousy language skill levels don't make for a well-rounded character.
Damn. Fortune beat me to it.
As for the other stuff, he may not be a one trick poney, but I think versatile is a little strong.
He's still just a "fighter."
The Charisma 1 is going to hurt you down the road.
The only thing that puts this guy on par with a Sam is the fact that he's a Troll.
If you change:
As for the other stuff, he may not be a one trick poney, but I think versatile is a little strong.
He's still just a "fighter."
The Charisma 1 is going to hurt you down the road.
The only thing that puts this guy on par with a Sam is the fact that he's a Troll.
If you change:
| QUOTE |
| -1pt: Distinctive Style, -1 to Tracking rolls by opponents. (He looks like a gorilla.) |
to
| QUOTE |
| -1pt: Distintive Style, Looks like a gorilla when tracking. |
You might be onto something pretty cool.
Don't get me wrong, fix the magic points and you got yourself a playable character.
| QUOTE (kevyn668) |
| I think I see your problem you built a Rocker/Massuese. Maybe you'd have better luck with just a Rocker or a Massuese. |
But I thought the point was to not be a one trick pony.
You can make generalist adepts - they just don't shine at anything. Build Points 123
Adept (25)
Ref 1 (2)
Traceless step (.5)
+4 dice stealth (1)
LL, Thermo, FC, Image Mag 3, Micro (1.25)
SSF 5, Amp/damp (.75)
.5 left for your flavor - Improved dice: athletics, great leap, Improved Sense (scent), Improved Sense (tactile), Killing hands (L), etc.
Skills: (37)
Car 4
Etiquette 4
Negotiations 4
Unarmed combat 4
Stealth 6
Handgun 6
Athletics 4
B/R electronics 5
Attributes (56)
Body 4
Quickness 6
Strength 4
Charisma 4
Int 5
Will 5
Tech 5
This adept won't stand toe-to-toe with anything in combat, nor is he likely to engage in combat willy-nilly, but he does make a good face, a good low-intensity combatant and a pretty good spook.
-Siege
Adept (25)
Ref 1 (2)
Traceless step (.5)
+4 dice stealth (1)
LL, Thermo, FC, Image Mag 3, Micro (1.25)
SSF 5, Amp/damp (.75)
.5 left for your flavor - Improved dice: athletics, great leap, Improved Sense (scent), Improved Sense (tactile), Killing hands (L), etc.
Skills: (37)
Car 4
Etiquette 4
Negotiations 4
Unarmed combat 4
Stealth 6
Handgun 6
Athletics 4
B/R electronics 5
Attributes (56)
Body 4
Quickness 6
Strength 4
Charisma 4
Int 5
Will 5
Tech 5
This adept won't stand toe-to-toe with anything in combat, nor is he likely to engage in combat willy-nilly, but he does make a good face, a good low-intensity combatant and a pretty good spook.
-Siege
| QUOTE | ||
| Mercer Posted on Dec 20 2004, 10:11 PM
But I thought the point was to not be a one trick pony. |
Oh. Well, I thought you were upset in general over the number of BPs it would take to make a functional Rocker/Massuse that could survive in Thunderdome. I didn't know you were trying to build a non-one trick pony (no pun intended).
You could try suggesting to your GM that perhaps a high powered game is in order.
Priority Build
Elf
B: 5
Q: 7
S: 6
I: 6
C: 4
W: 5
Adept Powers
Imp. Ref 2
Stealth 4(Geas)
Killing Hands S(Geas)
Traceless
Imp. Sense: Flare Compensation
Skills
Pistols 6
Rifles 6
Unarmed Combat: Karate 5/7 - convert via CC conversion to Karate 6 (Blind Fighting, Full Offense, Sweep)
Etiquette 4
Stealth 4
Athletics 5
Languages
English(Cityspeak) 4/6
One other language 4
Just something I thrown together.
Elf
B: 5
Q: 7
S: 6
I: 6
C: 4
W: 5
Adept Powers
Imp. Ref 2
Stealth 4(Geas)
Killing Hands S(Geas)
Traceless
Imp. Sense: Flare Compensation
Skills
Pistols 6
Rifles 6
Unarmed Combat: Karate 5/7 - convert via CC conversion to Karate 6 (Blind Fighting, Full Offense, Sweep)
Etiquette 4
Stealth 4
Athletics 5
Languages
English(Cityspeak) 4/6
One other language 4
Just something I thrown together.
Elven Rocker/Massuese
Attributes
B: 5
Q: 6
S: 5
C: 8
I: 4
W: 5
E: 6
R: 5 (9)
I: 5 (9+3d6)
Cp: 7
Powers
Inc Reflexes (2), 3
Flare Comp, .25
Inc. Hearing, .25
Hearing Damp, .25
Thermographic Vision, .25
+2 Athletics, .5
+2 Stealth, .5
+2 Unarmed, 1
Skills
Unarmed: 5 (7)
Pistols: 5
Stealth: 4 (6)
Athletics: 4 (6)
Etiquette: 6
Negotiation: 6
Knowledge Skills
Massage: 6
Sensual Massage: 5, "Are you Sure you're not a Cop": 7
Guitar: 5, Totally Kick Ass Waa-Waa Pedal Solos: 7
Singing: 5, Wailing: 7
Contacts:
Media Consultant, Sleezy P. Martini
John, One Pony Trick
Gear (20,000
)
Fender Stratocaster, 10,000
Amp you can be buried in, 5,000
Folding Massage Bed, 900
Assorted Oils and Candles, 100
Totally Kick Ass Wardrobe, 4,000
Being the most Kick Ass Elven Rocker Massuese Ever, Priceless
Attributes
B: 5
Q: 6
S: 5
C: 8
I: 4
W: 5
E: 6
R: 5 (9)
I: 5 (9+3d6)
Cp: 7
Powers
Inc Reflexes (2), 3
Flare Comp, .25
Inc. Hearing, .25
Hearing Damp, .25
Thermographic Vision, .25
+2 Athletics, .5
+2 Stealth, .5
+2 Unarmed, 1
Skills
Unarmed: 5 (7)
Pistols: 5
Stealth: 4 (6)
Athletics: 4 (6)
Etiquette: 6
Negotiation: 6
Knowledge Skills
Massage: 6
Sensual Massage: 5, "Are you Sure you're not a Cop": 7
Guitar: 5, Totally Kick Ass Waa-Waa Pedal Solos: 7
Singing: 5, Wailing: 7
Contacts:
Media Consultant, Sleezy P. Martini
John, One Pony Trick
Gear (20,000
)Fender Stratocaster, 10,000
Amp you can be buried in, 5,000
Folding Massage Bed, 900
Assorted Oils and Candles, 100
Totally Kick Ass Wardrobe, 4,000
Being the most Kick Ass Elven Rocker Massuese Ever, Priceless
I salute you, sir. <salutes>
drop two senses and a point of stealth, and take the Pain Relief power from SOTA:64.
And eminently playable <applauds Mercer>
Hey, you could geas that pain relief power mfb mentioned to "requires massage"
Hey, you could geas that pain relief power mfb mentioned to "requires massage"
| QUOTE (Mercer) |
| Elven Rocker/Massuese |
Very nicely done.
Thank you all.
Upon reflection I probably should have dropped his Inc Ref to (1) and a few of his Improved Skills and instead gone Pain Resistance and Rapid Healing, but it matters little. The Rocker/Massuese is very much a product of the times (which were, uh, yesterday).
The most damnably infuriating part of all this is I now must play this character, though in all honesty he'll probably be an ork before he makes it to the table. The Elf Rocker/Massuese was just kind of a joke, but an Ork Rocker/Massuese would just f*k'n RULE!!!
<commences headbanging>
Upon reflection I probably should have dropped his Inc Ref to (1) and a few of his Improved Skills and instead gone Pain Resistance and Rapid Healing, but it matters little. The Rocker/Massuese is very much a product of the times (which were, uh, yesterday).
The most damnably infuriating part of all this is I now must play this character, though in all honesty he'll probably be an ork before he makes it to the table. The Elf Rocker/Massuese was just kind of a joke, but an Ork Rocker/Massuese would just f*k'n RULE!!!
<commences headbanging>
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