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Cynic project
I have looked into the new power for adept,and I have the basic book,magic the shadows,and the new SOTA. But I see that for the most part adepts are masters of being just slightly better at one thing,in exchange for being worse at a whole lot of other things.

Yes, the Stealth,sense,gun,or Hand to Hand Adept is better than you street sam. But For the most part the street sams,can be just about as good as all the adepts in all those fields, at the same time. Adept powers just cost to much.
Synner
For the most part it's just you. Adepts are indeed better specialists. However, in the (very) long run karma expenditure on Initiation and new powers pays off in a big way and adepts can expand their basic profile significantly, as compared to most sams (I've seen exceptions and the amount of money floating around in certain campaigns can skew things).
Cynic project
Well, I have yet to see an adept that is as good as a street sam or mage that wasn't basically a one(maybe two)trick pony. So care to prove me wrong?
Garland
I think most people will tell you the Adept has no limits on progression, where eventually the Sam runs up against the brick wall of Essence limits.
Synner
What would you like a starting character or a 100 karma one? Just gimme a comparable sam to build against.
Cynic project
Okay how about starting ,and 100 points. Use the same builds.
Mercer
To go back to something I've said for a long time, you can be a one trick pony as long as its a good trick.

Personally, I think the discussions on what's the "best" type of character to be largely pointless. I'll take an intelligently made character over a badly made one, and I'd back an intelligently played character against all the number crunching in the world. Every character has situations that he is better in and situations he's worse in.
mfb
eh. i love adepts, but i have to say that it's more difficult to optimize them than it is sams. you can't really make an adept as versatile as you can a sam. however, i wouldn't say at all that they're weak.
Cynic project
QUOTE (Garland)
I think most people will tell you the Adept has no limits on progression, where eventually the Sam runs up against the brick wall of Essence limits.

Yes and no.There comes a time when you having to pay more karma than what power you will get back. Street sams can get ware that costs less and less essence.You can get cyber eyes that have thermal,Ultrasound,low light,image mag,micro,eye lights for about half an essence.One point tops. That would cost nearly cost almost all of an adepts power points,or about 100 karma.

So wile the adept would get better eyes, that would be a major of the character and a small part of the sam.
Cynic project
QUOTE (Mercer)
To go back to something I've said for a long time, you can be a one trick pony as long as its a good trick.

Personally, I think the discussions on what's the "best" type of character to be largely pointless. I'll take an intelligently made character over a badly made one, and I'd back an intelligently played character against all the number crunching in the world. Every character has situations that he is better in and situations he's worse in.

I am saying that I feel that adepts just get the short end of the stick.I am not saying that they are worthless. I mean I think they can be cool,but I also think people should not have to throw a way balance to be cool.I think that style shouldn't cost you anything.
Mercer
I'll say they come out different, but I can't say better or worse.

Sams can pack in the senseware, but adepts get the kickass "natural" vision modifiers. Sams tend to build up better stats, Phys Ads tend to have higher skills. Phys Ads can start with Inc Reflexes 3 for Priority B, Sams would have to go Priority A to get the same bonus to Reaction and Initiative. (This to me is the biggest change to the Phys Ad in 3ed, he tends to come off equal to a starting sam in regards to initiative, as opposed to SR2 when he was the slow poke).

Still, I think the strength of the character comes from how its player rather than the numbers on the sheet.
Cynic project
QUOTE (Mercer)
Still, I think the strength of the character comes from how its player rather than the numbers on the sheet.

I will never say other wise, but the numbers on the sheet matter. Because if you give da-uber deck and the noob decker to the same player.Das-uber deck will come out ahead in most cases.
vagranttimelord
Because I'm lazy I didn't read all of these posts... but I will state this. Magician way Adepts CAN be the most powerful Mages in the game...it will just take them the longest to do so... If you have read the new SOTA you will see why, they have access to ALL Metamagics and Foci.

But if you are looking at straight adept you will have to look at all of the new metamagics specifically for them... A lot of them require centering as a prerequisite which just shows how unbalancing they can get if they are Initiate 5 or higher....

And think of this... take an Adept... make him a sword fighter with a natural skill of say...6-8, a professional, give him Attunement metamagic and a weapon focus. That means he is rolling 6-8 dice for the skill plus the force of the focus all at -1 to the target number. Basically, he walks up to you with a sword and you fall down before you realize he swung....

Adepts are always worth their cred as characters.
mfb
trust me, you can make an adepts whose numbers will blow a lot of other characters out of the water, and they don't necessarily have to be a one-trick pony to do so. sure, they won't be totally badass at everything--they'll only be okay at most things.
Rev
Adepts can go to the airport.
Eyeless Blond
QUOTE (Rev @ Dec 10 2004, 07:36 PM)
Adepts can go to the airport.

Yeah right. They don't even let boxcutters on a plane these days; I know a guy who got hassled for a half hour over one of those little rubber reflex hammers. Do you really think they'll let someone who might have Killing Hands on one? Honestly I'm surprised magic isn't illegal in the UCAS, after the native americans spanked them with it. nyahnyah.gif
akarenti
QUOTE (Eyeless Blond)
Yeah right. They don't even let boxcutters on a plane these days; I know a guy who got hassled for a half hour over one of those little rubber reflex hammers. Do you really think they'll let someone who might have Killing Hands on one? Honestly I'm surprised magic isn't illegal in the UCAS, after the native americans spanked them with it. 


There's always Masking. I don't remember that you could detect specific powers just from Assensing an adept, but I could be wrong.

Anyway, the efficiency of airport security asside, the adept does have the advantage of not being obviously dangerous. He doesn't get the Charisma penalties for sporting obvious cyberwar, doesn't have the surgical scars from not obvious cyber, and can walk right through cyberware scanners. He can't be detected as anything but a normal mundane if he learns Masking (except by other initiates with Masking), which can be helpful in a lot more places than just airports.

Walking into a lower security club or buiseness with 1,000,000 nuyen.gif in chrome will get a slightly different reaction than when an adept walks in.
ES_Riddle
QUOTE (Mercer)
I'll say they come out different, but I can't say better or worse.

Sams can pack in the senseware, but adepts get the kickass "natural" vision modifiers.

Adepts can pack in the senseware, too. They don't have as much money to do it, but they can put any cyber they want in. It hurts their magic, but you have to just figure which is more valuable in that particular case. The eye example, for instance, you have to decide if .5 essense, 1 power point (and some space to put in more 'ware) and using the weaker cyber mods is better than 3 power points for the better natural mods.
kevyn668
QUOTE (Cynic project)
I have looked into the new power for adept,and I have the basic book,magic the shadows,and the new SOTA. But I see that for the most part adepts are masters of being just slightly better at one thing,in exchange for being worse at a whole lot of other things.

Yes, the Stealth,sense,gun,or Hand to Hand Adept is better than you street sam. But For the most part the street sams,can be just about as good as all the adepts in all those fields, at the same time. Adept powers just cost to much.

I need somethings cleared up:

Do you dislike the power level of the adept over all?

Are you unhappy with the percieved desparity in advacements from the supplements between the sam and the adept?

What kind of character do you like to play?

The adept, as you probably know, is a bit of a nich character but then again so is the face. Or the decker, or the rigger, or even the sam depending on your game.
Wounded Ronin
I strongly prefer adepts because I'm lazy at chargen. For sammies I would wanna look in 2 or 3 sourcebooks. For physads I can make a decent one with just SR3.
kevyn668
Heh, I'll admit that I like adepts because I don't have to figure how to "best" spend all the damn nuyen.gif

Then again, that's why my sams are pretty simplistic. [why don't we have a "lazy smiley"?]

edit: Nevermind. sleepy.gif (close enough)
sidartha
I've been playing 3rd Ed long enough to have seen about ten different builds of an Adept including a few of my own, self promotion aside here is my impression of Adapts.
A pure street sam can out of the box, using cannon build points rules, rock the world of another out-of-the-box Adapt in multiple situations. Note multiple.
A pure adapt can rock the world of that same sammie in only one or two situations.
However, in order to improve his base attributes(Quickness, Body, Strength, Initive) a sam must earn enough net profit and have the appropriate contacts and the down time to have Beta grade cyber installed. not an easy thing to do in my games(YMMV). All the Adapt has to do in order to improve those same attributes is spend karma and leaves him/her free to buy other neat toys like Runthenium or commission a completely broken assault rifle from CC's rules or perhaps a FAKE ID.
As I see it the advantage of a Street Sam is to have that 'So familiar with Death he's on my speed-dial' killing power. While the advantage of an Adapt is to be able to leap over the 15 foot wall, not set of the pressure sensors on the other side, gun down two Tir Ghosts and then bitch slap the patrolling Elemental into vapor type of craziness.
All that aside the best Adapts AND Street Sams have been half-breeds. Imagine the posabilitys of a physical mage with Retinal Duplication and the palm print altering nanites and Physical Mask....Eh?Eh?
Anybody?
Can I get a "Hell Yea"?
Please?
........... frown.gif
Xavroc
It's all situational and all depends how you wanna kill things. For the guy who wants to kill stuff h2h I'd go 'dept.
Reason 1: I can get more dice then you. The ability to bond to Weapon Foci is the factor.
Reason 2: I can ignore reach modifers with distant strike. MITS
Reason 3: I can kill you with a weapon I was born with. SR3

For the monkey in ranged combat.
Reason 1: I can get more dice then you. Skill increased with dept power. SR3 or MITS(i forgot which)
Reason 2: I can get an achored armor focus bonded to me. Eat Barrier loser.
Reason 3: I getr more dice then you. Eat it. More dice=Likeliness to Hit increased

Sneaky-Sneaky killer sniper guy killers:
Well they win, but only if the Dept sixth sense can't warn him....if he took the power.

(Edit) Oh yeah I forgot my groups favorites: Shapeshifter/Adepts

All these thing were situational but so is building a samurai. Some power can be used for espionage. But always remember that when a dept is being healed by magic TNs are easier then a sams. And magic healing is the way to go because it's faster and don't cost as much money. (cheesey note: don't heal all the boxes in one go, shoot the char with a L manabolt and let him take a light wound and start again.) Also the adept can take powers that increase stats and give extra init dice. Built right you can mix cyber and dept powers and come up with a super-beef cake.

My opinion riggers are the way to go. Hey Combat monkeys take 18LN damage from my howitzer from 1km away.
Dr. Black
I'll fall back on a character I've been running.

CyberAdept.

She is no one trick pony. Combination of cyberware, bioware and Physad abilities. Geasa to hang on to lost magic and get a discount. She has a magic attribute of 1 at chargen. Which will go up as she initiates. She is an excellent all around character. Over 80 chipped skills at 3 + CED. She is a Face (kinesics3), Sammy(Increased reflexes2), Stealthy (Improved ability stealth4), Breaking and entering using those chipped skills, lots of senses, suprathyroid, EA, Muscle augmentation and toner, cybereyes/ears, bone lacing, etc etc. 1 Million NY to spend at chargen so she has alot of toys. Starts with 12 contacts. The list goes on and on.

I see so many posts about adepts being 1 trick ponies, not having enough abilities, risking magic loss. Thats just BS. Use GEASA. They are in the book for a reason. Use voluntary Geasa on adept powers to get a 25% discount on the cost of the power. Turn 6 power points into 8 power points. Get cyber/bio at least for the special benefits you cannot get with Physad powers (smartlink, chipped skills, datajack, EA etc)

Do you realize that the less actual magic attribute you have, the lower your chances of suffering magic loss. An awakened with magic 6 has a 15 in 36 chance of suffering magic loss, whereas a magic 2 character has only a 1 in 36 chance of loosing magic.

So I say use up some of that magic attribute with beneficial items before you have to roll for magic loss and waste geasa.

DB
Eyeless Blond
Biggest problems with Geasea:

1) Other than Talisman and perhaps Gesture, nearly every Geas can and *will* have many possible, even likely, situations where they will force you into a bad situation. Even that dumb fasting geas can get you often enough, particularly if you're ambushed right after a meal. biggrin.gif Add to this that most sane GMs won't ever let you take more than one of the same (read: Talisman) Geas, and you're in for lots of awkward situations.
2) Geasea taken for cost are unremovable; you're stuck with 'em forever. Removing your other Geasea costs you the best parts of an initiation, earning nothing extra for you but a jump in Grade.
3) You can only have (Willpower) of them. Normally mages never run anywhere near this limit, but for adepts who are constantly double-geasing everything they have--once for cost, once for Magic loss--will run into this limit rather quickly.
4) (EDIT: this is sorta a house rule, but one majorly hinted at and supported by the rules) If I caught one of my players trying to "cheat" their way around a Geas--things like making your underwear a Talisman, claiming that blinking is a Gesture, or that his Domain is "wherever I'm standing at the time,"--then I'd slowly begin to hint that his character is beginning to lose the focus that the Geas used to give him, and that he needed to rededicate himself to it, possibly making it more of a conscious effort or sacrifice. If he didn't get the hint and start shaping up, I'd have the Geas break on him in certain important times, telling him that his weakening Geas is just not providing the conscious control he needs to access his power. If that didn't work I'd simply invoke the rule that his character is consciously choosing to not honor his geasea, and he loses them all, starting on the road to burnout (last paragraph p. 33 MitS).

So yeah, Geasea are a choice. But they're not anything to be taken up lightly; much like the decision to lose Essence in the first place, there is a definite trade-off involved here.
Critias
Just curious, here. Has it occured to anyone that since half of us argue Adepts are too potent, and the other half argue that Adepts are too weak -- maybe Adepts are just right?
Chance359
Shhhhhh. Don't bring reason to this conversation.
Stumps
QUOTE
Just curious, here. Has it occured to anyone that since half of us argue Adepts are too potent, and the other half argue that Adepts are too weak -- maybe Adepts are just right?

What half of the table misses is the long term version of the Adept.
Some groups never see characters live long enough for Adepts to become as good as they can get.
In this mode, Sammies are better than an Adept in many ways to alot of perceptions.

To the other half of the table they have seen Adepts live long enough to reach crazy levels that dwarf sammies in areas of power.
In this mode, the sammies are pretty futile in the end against the Adept.
They can sometimes be found sitting on the sidelines of the battle filing their nails while the Adepts kills everyone.
lorthazar
If the sammy is that behind the curve then the right person isn't playing him. Sure the Adpet can gain new powers for Karma, but that Karma could have gone to skills or attributes.
U_Fester
QUOTE (Xavroc)
Reason 3: I getr more dice then you. Eat it. More dice=Likeliness to Hit increased

It is nice to throw 18 dice (6 for skill, 6 for pool and 6 for impoved ability) against another character.
lodestar
Adepts also have one major advantage that no cybersam can ever get: Astral perception. This ability usually trumps all other vision enhancers that a sam might get, not to mention it also allows an adept to engage various Spirit type foes - when they're astral - when they don't get their immunity to normal weapons. The other adept ability that helps in this case is killing hands which as well as allowing the adept to pound out a lot of damage bypasses a spirit's immunity as well. We had a troll adept in our group once with astral perception, killing hands M, and distance strike who could just make a mess out of elementals - something that was impossible for the sam and rigger and still excedingly difficult for the mage.
Eyeless Blond
QUOTE (lorthazar)
If the sammy is that behind the curve then the right person isn't playing him. Sure the Adpet can gain new powers for Karma, but that Karma could have gone to skills or attributes.

See, the problem there is that at certain levels it becomes incredibly expensive to raise raw skills to a new level At this point the adept is much more efficient, because through initiation and weapon foci he has ways to increase his power that the sammie cannot access. Sure, he can raise his abilities in the same way as the sammie can, but there comes a point where initiation is just plain cheaper.

For instance, it costs 20-25 karma to increase an active skill from 9 to 10. With a similar amount of karma an adept can initiate, getting Improved Ability to raise the same skill *twice*, increase his Grade (for astral pool and the like), pick up a metamagic technique like Masking or Centering for even *more* dice, and the list goes on. Adepts have a hands-down better progression than sammies at the high Karma levels, because they have more advancement paths from which they can cherry-pick abilities to their heart's content.

However, it can be said that adepts start out far less versetile than sammies, and have to invest more to get started. Eventually they can and will "catch up" in terms of versatility and power, but in the beginning they are balanced or even underpowered. It's actually the same sort of problem between the fighter and the wizard in D&D: at low levels the wizard has to hide behind the tank and plink off little cantrips here and there, but around level 15 the pure fighter is mostly obselete (which is where PrCs come into play, but I digress).
Kanada Ten
QUOTE
It's actually the same sort of problem between the fighter and the wizard in D&D: at low levels the wizard has to hide behind the tank and plink off little cantrips here and there, but around level 15 the pure fighter is mostly obselete (which is where PrCs come into play, but I digress).

Which is what the samurai should be doing as well, ie diversifying, finding a new role, training the new kid, investing in animals and contacts. Sure it's tough to raise a skill from 8 to 9, but the need is not very high either. Get a damn SUT skill, Leadership, Stock Portfolios, and so on. Essentially become the Smiling Bandit Prestige Class.
Eyeless Blond
QUOTE (lodestar @ Dec 11 2004, 02:42 PM)
Adepts also have one major advantage that no cybersam can ever get: Astral perception. This ability usually trumps all other vision enhancers that a sam might get, not to mention it also allows an adept to engage various Spirit type foes - when they're astral - when they don't get their immunity to normal weapons. The other adept ability that helps in this case is killing hands which as well as allowing the adept to pound out a lot of damage bypasses a spirit's immunity as well. We had a troll adept in our group once with astral perception, killing hands M, and distance strike who could just make a mess out of elementals - something that was impossible for the sam and rigger and still excedingly difficult for the mage.

Yes well, hand-to-hand is where the adept excells, isn't it? And am I the only one who insists on applying the same visability modifiers for Astral Perception as you get for natural Thermographic? I mean, with both kinds of vision you have people glowing against different backgrounds, and ban be blocked by other distracting lights and the like, so why not? In fact, since living beings and the living earth itself are the only things providing light sources in the Astral, I'd expect most indoor areas to be in Full Darkness, or at least Minimal Light, and apply the appropriate modifiers. You'd also get glare mods for having your own group's glowing auras nearby and in the way. smile.gif

Of course YMMV. I'm also the kind of guy who treats the Intelligence test for resisting an illusion as a Perception Test instead, and allows the mundane resisting to use Complimentary skills like Security Proceedures and Stealth(Awareness) on the resistance test, so take my opinion as you will.
Kanada Ten
QUOTE
In fact, since living beings and the living earth itself are the only things providing light sources in the Astral, I'd expect most indoor areas to be in Full Darkness, or at least Minimal Light, and apply the appropriate modifiers.

Only areas that are completely sterile will be Full Darkness, not to mention having a Background Count.
Eyeless Blond
Good point; I wasn't considering microbes and the like. Of course the hazy glow of microbes would either only allow Minimal/Partial Light conditions just about everywhere, except for places where there's really a lot of dust in the air, in which case it would probably imply a bit of glare. 'course is is all indoors; outdoors the glow of the erath would provide decent lighting day in and day out.
Kanada Ten
QUOTE (Eyeless Blond)
Good point; I wasn't considering microbes and the like. Of course the hazy glow of microbes would either only allow Minimal/Partial Light conditions just about everywhere, except for places where there's really a lot of dust in the air, in which case it would probably imply a bit of glare. 'course is is all indoors; outdoors the glow of the erath would provide decent lighting day in and day out.

That's my take on it. I don't know that third edition does so, but earlier additions stated as much.

Although there are sterile places in the Sixth World, places dark and poisonous on the astral, sickeningly sterile and twisted perversions of nature! DIE! Die rotten scum destroyers of - Er, I mean, It's dangerous to make such places, even to human health and sanity.
Cynic project
Well, it is not just they are not as good as Sammies, they aren't as good as mages. I have had a character, Different Days who is a voodoun with spiffy LOA(Mainly different names and looks) who out stealths the stealthiest Adepts,who out wrastles the kung-fo masters.Is on par with the best B&E Adepts. With a litle bit of time he could talk his way around most of the socialist ones as well. Yes he is a 5 grade initate, but boy does the shit hit the fan when you summon a force 6-8 great form loa. I mean concealment and invisabiltity,great stuff. ( he has roughly 180 karma.)

But I digress. Adepts have many powers that are slightly better than sam,and they can go slightly more places than sam.But not all the best things that cyber/bioware offer are illegal, or hard to find. Cyber eyes, legal.Smart gun links you can get a permit. No air port will ban people with cyberware that you can get a permit for. A smart gun link is only dangorous with a gun.

My point is that that Adepts can do things very well.But the amount of resources it takes for an adept to his one or two things very well, a sam could do those things about as well,and many other things way better. And as I see it,they are trapped into molds from the start of the game. I mean how many people have had characters get up to level 6 iniatates? How many people have had street sams with accesses to doctors with medical skills of 6,and alpha clinics or even beta clinics?
Cynic project
QUOTE (kevyn668)
QUOTE (Cynic project @ Dec 10 2004, 05:34 PM)
I have looked into the new power for adept,and I have the basic book,magic the shadows,and the new SOTA. But I see that for the most part adepts are masters of being just slightly better at one thing,in exchange for being worse at a whole lot of other things.

Yes, the Stealth,sense,gun,or Hand to Hand Adept is better than you street sam. But For the most part the street sams,can be just about as good as all the adepts in all those fields, at the same time. Adept powers just cost to much.

I need somethings cleared up:

Do you dislike the power level of the adept over all?

Are you unhappy with the percieved desparity in advacements from the supplements between the sam and the adept?

What kind of character do you like to play?

The adept, as you probably know, is a bit of a nich character but then again so is the face. Or the decker, or the rigger, or even the sam depending on your game.

I dislike the facts that adepts are either masters of none, or one trick ponies, when just about every other character type can be made to be a varied character with more than one strong point.

I am unhappy with the fact that adepts have to pay karma ,and noticabley large amounts of it for things that other people can get form small amounts of money. Or at the worst they can spend fixed amounts of karma to get the same things.

I have played Decker,sams,shamans,hematics, and vodouns. I like the fact that the characters I tend to make seem to have the abiltity to do more than one thing. i try to make characters who are team players,but at the same time flexible. I mean yes,one trick ponies can go a long way,but when something goes wrong they are the people who get hit the hardest. The Stealth Adept getting spotted,the social one running into drone,the hand to hand combat master running into a dragon....

But the face/deck is only limited by a little bit of resources and training. You give your face a good pistol skill,armour and a low level intiive boost and you have some who is handy in most fights. These two do not realy lose anything from getting bioware and bits of cyber.

Riggers have so many drones that they can use that,their niche is that can do things from subtle spying,to full on tank battles.

Sams are the easiest thing to put in a niche besides adepts. But I have seen them go toe toe with adepts in many feilds and wile they do not always when when they go after an adepts strong point,they tend to be varried enough to go after the adept's weak point.
Wounded Ronin
I like one trick pony characters. I make them all the time in different games.
Fortune
I fail to see how they are 'one trick ponies', unless they are poorly made. An Adept right out of chargen who is based on Melee could still have Athletics, Stealth, and Pistols at levels equivalent to those of Street Sams (possibly without the Smartlink bonus), and still totally wipe the floor with the Sammy in melee combat. The Sammy might know more and varied firearms skills, and may have a small Attribute advantage, but that doesn't make the Adept useless in all but one situation.
toturi
OK, you need to look at the environment the adept as well other archetypes are built to play in. It is interaction with the environment that brings put the true picture. For example, in the case of ranged combat, you could easily have the adept use a shotgun. The adept does not have to apply for permits or worry about the legality of his powers. Killing Hands, what legality? Traceless Steps are another power that cyber or bio cannot counter.
Zen Shooter01
These may have been mentioned already.

An adept doesn't spend essence to get his tricks, and so is a lot easier to heal magically than a cyborg.

Street samurai will be revealed as such by metal detectors and usually mundane pat-downs. An adept needs an astral scan, and that's not going to happen as often because magicians are such a small minority of the population.
Arethusa
It's more than environment, though. Even in terms of ability, adepts are, at worst, marginally less competent or able than sammies and still capable of dramatically outclassing them in well more than one area, numerically and situationally. This must-be-a-one-trick-pony crap just isn't true.
Fix-it
QUOTE (Eyeless Blond)
If I caught one of my players trying to "cheat" their way around a Geas--things like making your underwear a Talisman, claiming that blinking is a Gesture, or that his Domain is "wherever I'm standing at the time,"

ROFLMAO

have to try slipping that past a gm sometime... rotfl.gif
ES_Riddle
QUOTE (Eyeless Blond @ Dec 11 2004, 03:54 AM)
things like making your underwear a Talisman

That would be a horrible choice for a geas, actually. You would have to have the same pair of underwear (with three distinctive characteristics) every time you cast a spell or wanted to use a geased power. Assuming you do laundry once a week and have sub-par hygiene, you're looking at either carrying around some dirty drawers or using magic only about 2/7 of the time. 4/7 if you wear them for 2 days then turn them inside out for another 2.

QUOTE (Cynic Project)
I am unhappy with the fact that adepts have to pay karma ,and noticabley large amounts of it for things that other people can get form small amounts of money. Or at the worst they can spend fixed amounts of karma to get the same things.


They can get it for small amounts of money, too. They just have to balance their need for abilities with the amount of 'ware that they are putting in. They have more options available to them than any other character because they have both magic and cyberware and can choose which is better. I fail to see how more versatility makes them a one-trick-pony.
Eyeless Blond
QUOTE (ES_Riddle)
QUOTE (Eyeless Blond @ Dec 11 2004, 03:54 AM)
things like making your underwear a Talisman

That would be a horrible choice for a geas, actually. You would have to have the same pair of underwear (with three distinctive characteristics) every time you cast a spell or wanted to use a geased power. Assuming you do laundry once a week and have sub-par hygiene, you're looking at either carrying around some dirty drawers or using magic only about 2/7 of the time. 4/7 if you wear them for 2 days then turn them inside out for another 2.

Well you can have more than one of the same talisman, right? So long as it's white cotton, with an elastic waistband, and has little red hearts on it then any pair of boxers with red hearts on 'em will do, right? Unlike foci, Talismans aren't required to be bonded or anything, so you can have any number of them for use as backups.
ES_Riddle
IIRC, talismans do have to be attuned to you much like fetishes and foci. I think they have a set amount of time for their reattunement rather than varying based on force (since they don't have one).
toturi
Talismans are attuned like Fetishes... except that fetishes are attuned to a spell/s and the time is based on Force of the spell/s. And since there is no spell, hence no Force, the time is negligible.
CoalHeart
Deckers are the world's superpower. They trump all adepts riggers and sams.

Your Kung Fu master adept throws 36 dice for hand to hand? No problem to Capt. Decker. He puts out an APB on you and your fake SINs. Falsely sheds some info to powerful corps that you are the one who cost them 3 million yen in research material by bombing their lab. Ect. Ect.


Leave the Adepts and Sams how they are. Nerf the Decker!


**The previous propoganda message was paid for Adepts Anonymous a not for profit orginization.**
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