The Ward itself can't be moved from what it is erected on, but vehicles can be warded and they can then move. The Ward has to have specific parameters, but you could ward a shoe box and carry that box around with you.

I believe there's been several M1s knocked out in Iraq by RPGs I know I saw footage of one, but I'll wager there's probably been a few others. The big fear is when they are deployed in urban areas is high deflection shots which are able to hit the rear deck armor from above.

But back to solving our SR problem...

If you don't have another tank or piece of arty or suitable Thor shot the best a light team of infantry (or Shadowrunners as the case may be ) is to score a mobility kill on such a vehicle. It can be accomplished by a variety of means. An earth elemental is a good tool - digging trenches or other pit traps. A water elemental can also be useful to make ground boggy hoping to get the vehicle stuck. All sorts of nature spirits should be able to accomplish a similar task.

Lastl I'm suprised that no one has mentioned the other possible means of destroying it - a big wad of plastique. Not for the faint of heart of course, but appropriatle applied to the hull one could assume a sufficient bit would do the trick. Just hope the tank doesn't have the anti-theft system that can electrify the hull... Which of course is the best way to ensure your PCs don't get a hold of one.

Replace the seat cushion.

Yeah, I meant damage compensation methods in general. As evidanced by my idiocy with them.

Another thing you could do, get a semi and load it with nitrous, and max out its top-speed as much as you can. Get a winch. Have small drone with an arm attach winch to tank, hit nitrous on semi and drag tank around making crash checks against everything.

Only if you can crank the Load rating of that truck up to around 150-210 tons. And even if your GM goes by the FAQ ruling, he may just as well rule that the MBT is fairly large for its Body and thus that the Leo3 takes up 1620 CF. Realistically, 900-1100 CF should be about enough for a MBT.

lodestar:

In the classic film BATTLE OF THE BULGE (1965), there was a scene in which that was depicted. As their foxhole was being overrun by a German King Tiger tank (actually, it was a U.S.-made M-47 Patton heavy tank owned by the Spanish Army, in German WWII colors--the same vehicles were used in PATTON five years later), two combat engineers (or demolitions experts, if they aren't the same thing ), placed a pair of plastic explosive charges (possibly the contents of a standard military demolition pack) on the glacis plate (the underside of the tank's prow), crimped the chemical fuses (or armed the time pencils--the scene was rather brief), and RAN LIKE H***. Three seconds later, the tank blew up.

Another possibility would be to modify a Combat Drone to fire a Great Dragon ATGM. The U.S. military started doing that in Afghanistan a few years ago, by modifying RQ1-B "Predator" surveillance RPVs to carry and fire AGM-114 "Hellfire" laser-guided antitank missiles.

I recall reading somewhere that the U.S. military was experimenting with an air-dropped weapon, similar to the M-712 "Copperhead" laser-guided 155mm artillery projectile. The weapon was intended to be dropped by parachute. The idea was that it would hang in the air until its onboard sensors detected a vehicle passing under it, then would activate and fire its shaped-charge warhead (or depleted-uranium penetrator) straight down through the enemy tank's top armor, where it was thinnest.

Grifter, or one of the other folks who play SHADOWRUN and have real-life military experience, would probably know more about the latter two items than I would. (After all, I'm a civilian. )

--Foreigner

It has a crew now?

You need a Naval weapon to get through the rating 40 vehicular armor of the Leopard III, ATGMs will not do.

You'd need 46.7kg of straight C-12 to damage the Leo3. It will be one seriously big wad of plastique indeed.

I didn't say it would be easy...

But who said anything about outright destroying? A significantly less amount would probably be enough to flip it on its side if placed on the underside. But more commonly it would probably be placed in a strategic spot like under the turret overhang between it and the chassis to blast the turret off. Really, a group of combat engineers should be able to take out a rogue tank without much problem. Even a lesser amount of C-12 should be enough to make the tank fall in a big hole or drop something heavy on it.

Now that being said, the best thing excepting another tank to stop a tank is some good airsupport - preferably in the form of an attack helo.

You sure? I've seen videos and pictures of light APCs driving into anti-tank mines (with explosive charge weights in the 10-30kg range), and those do get slapped around quite a bit, but they also weigh around 1/4th that of an MBT.

Just slapping the explosives on the tank and then running like hell doesn't sound very healthy, you can imagine climbing on the tank and working on top of it for an extended time before making your escape.

That'll really only be possible if the tank is completely unsupported and whoever is driving is not fully in control. But if that's the case, then placing explosive charges on the tank may indeed a worthwhile alternative if there aren't any powerful mages or heavy weaponry around.

Sounds like something along the lines of the JSOW.

Ack! You're right, it was the Halcón I was thinking of.

Hehehe they always used that tank as german tigers. And i believed it that that where tigers till i saw real ones....

The new softer seat cushion will turn into 40 armor as soon as they're bolted down to the tank... did you forget?

Well, having a bias against "magescum" might be tainting your reasoning power.

Rock-Steady:

I'm not certain, but I think that there were at least two films made in the early 1970s in which modified Soviet T-34s substituted for German Tiger Mark Is.

The films were KELLY'S HEROES (1970), starring Clint Eastwood, Carroll O'Connor, Don Rickles, and Donald Sutherland, and THE BRIDGE AT NERETVA (Yugoslavian title--Bika na Neretvi) (1969), starring Yul Brynner, Curt Jurgens, Hardy Kruger, Franco Nero, and Orson Welles.

Although KELLY'S HEROES was set in France after the D-Day invasion, both films were filmed in what was then the country of Yugoslavia.

I found this on The Internet Movie Database, listed under "Trivia" about KELLY'S HEROES:

The "Tiger" tanks used in the film were actually Russian T-34 tanks which had been specially modified to look like Tiger tanks. This is apparent when you look at the suspension of the tanks. (T-34s used a modified Christie suspension, whereas the Tigers' wheels were much more elaborate.)

P.S.: Don't get too upset about missing that. I've seen the film about 5 or 6 times (in its entirety, that is ) over the years, and I never noticed the difference either.

--Foreigner

If any iraqians are reading this, till the end of week all american tanks will be wiped out Any defenses against flying toster attack in addition to slapping player with books?

As for tank, someone called numbers that armor is like 10/5/2
So in example it would be 40/20/8, reflecting that with good antitank weapons they are vulnerable from certain positions. Of course silliness with sniper rifle/ penetrating any side of armor is also ruled out. Against such weapons full armor rating is used. Mm, all this sounds good and reasonable for me.

I never understood why the didn't go for more Panthers and simply used a Leopard I (like in "A bridge to far") or AMX-30 since both are "close relatives".


But on explosives and tanks: The "spalling" effect (travelling shockwaves break up the armor on the inside and use the fragments to kill the crew) is basically a think of the past due to a combination of spaced (small hollow layer) and composite armor as well as kevlar inlays (spalling layer). So planting a batch of plastic on a tank and firing it off will rattle the crew and the crew will than make a rattling sound with the MG. That's why HESH is slowly going out of favour.

Now if you use/make a hollow charge you get the "hot jet of molten material" from the classical HEAP round (it's not a real plasma jet).

Wether it is sensible in a times of automatic defences (Zap Strips, Sentry-Guns) and "sensor only" tanks with surround vision/rigger controll and all to get close to a tank is another question. Even 1941 the mortality rate among "Panzer-Nahkämpfer" troops in the east was veery low...


Birdy

It is well described in the rules that spirits (and even more so elementals) have problems interacting with our modern world (no "Auras" etc) and that they need clear instructions. Add in that they are also quite "literally minded" Based on that (and the fact that I consider mages too powerful) I argue for a "US Marines" style of orders: Very short and single, clearly defined jobs only.

Birdy

Just to be sure, I re-read the Conjuring section (SR3, p. 184-189), the spirit section, and relevant information regarding other spirit types in MitS. Where does it say that they can't bamph in from the metaplanes if given the "clear instructions" (as you say, and I agree, are required) to do so?

I don't share your opinion that mages are the end-all of character types to play. In the game I run, the drone rigger and samurai make more headlines than the three magickers do. But, it's your game and my point isn't to tell you what to do. I'm just exploring the possibility of this being a legal move and if it is, its a great way to take out something that is nigh impervious to any other type of attack.

Nothing personal against your tastes.

Won't work, the 27d is the staged number, not the base power. Base power only is used to determine whether hard armor is penetrated IIRC.

I was reviewing MITS just last night (can't remember page reference, sorry): A magician can have a spirit appear on the astral or physical directly from its home metaplane, and so avoid a ward. There are two restrictions to this. First, it uses up a service.

Second, and more importantly, the spirit can only appear in the same place as the mage (approximately...) - ie, you must already be inside the ward you want to circumvent.

Ah, no. Because in that case the 50 never hot the tank. a 5 did. That makes the base power of the attack that hit the tank a 5. Please, please do not presume to tell me what "my logic" is, when you obviously don't have a solid grasp on it. I'll quote the book when I get home if someone hasn't done it by then.