Listen to the experts, they'll tell you it's impossible, then go do it.
Nothing is Impossible, in any role playing game, Improbable, highly unlikely, infeasable maybe but not impossible, that's why we let Dice decide certain situations.

and it is in this spirit that this topic was started, I find a few things in the Core Rule Book either way too complicated, or totally realistic IMHO.

if the Core Rule book states that then I still disagree with it. To me it's unrealistic. Magic does not work via the laws of physics, it bends, twists, ties it into a knot, tweaks it. At least that's how I view magic and use it.

The game has rules, breaking these rules is not an accomplishment, it is at best a house rule. The GM can decree whatever the GM wants, but know that those are house rules, and inspire no respect or awe out of this group of nit picking sadistic cynics.

Ok, then. Let's see you roll for teleportation.

So, you get one to one hundred of these per run? Your team must fuck up a lot in that case, the book only allows for one per character, at the cost of all (the much harder to earn kind) karma.

Actually, the way you write...

Part of the appeal of the Shadowrun Sorcery system is precisely the fact that it's a science and an art. It's not a panacea or a deus ex machina... it has rules that govern it and apply universally. While said rules are often expanded and discussed in various sourcebooks, the key element of Shadowrun magic is that it follows an internal consistency that lends itself to a more realistic interpretation of magic... something that is almost necessary in a near-future game that hinges on verisimilitude.

You are using a house rule magic system. That's okay. But it's not Shadowrun Sorcery. Granted, there are other ways of representing magic other than spells (Spirits, metaplanes, those funky places in Australia come to mind). But a "Teleport spell" just breaks the rules, without any thought of the negative consequences. If you have it, odds are a corporation has it as well. Leave a ritual sample behind, and they can just retrieve you at their whim, or teleport to your location, whichever is more convenient for your version of reality. Corporations wouldn't need Shadowrunners... they just would send in Strike Teams, and if they got in trouble, they can teleport out. Or teleport in, steal the goods, teleport out (you can't ward everything). It becomes less of a game of Shadowrun and more like Stargate or Star Trek.

Do not confuse malice with bluntness. Simply because I find this thread whiny, pretentious, and confoundingly senseless does not mean I bear you any real malice, and likewise, I doubt any of the people who find your houserules insane and inappropriate really hate you or wish you any real harm. But you damn well better be ready for people around here to state openly their opinions. Just because it's Shadowrun how you see it doesn't mean anyone else has to like it.

And only a fool would say such an egregiously foolish thing.

Give us some examples of these 'out right Malicious, Rude, and not very well thought out' responses instead of just throwing vague accusations around.

Right, but see, this is the part of the conversion wherein your madness is revealed in all its lunatic glory. In the interest of clarifying my quoted-post to the best of my ability, I shall not merely respond with paragraphs and smilies as is the custom "on your board," but with a neatly laid out and lovingly crafted list.

Behold: a chain of events.

One -- You say Teleportation exists in your game.

Two -- It is pointed out to you that Teleportation doesn't exist in official Shadowrun rules, and is, in fact, clearly stated outright (in text, in "ooc" text, not just some character's rambling first person monologue) as being impossible.

Three -- You off-handedly dismiss the impossibility of Teleportation as "a house rule" that no one told you about.

Four -- I clear up the "house rule" term for you, since you apparently have wholly lost all sense of logic, and are declaring that the canon material is a house rule, and your raving delusions are canon. This is, by the by, completely backwards thinking.

Five -- You quote my clarification and reply to it full of delusional grandeur and the fighting American spirit, denying the existance of the word "impossible" in a rousing Superman speech about how, with gumption, elbow grease, and vitamins, there's nothing man-kind can't do. You prove the truth of your words by capitalizing some of them apparently at random, leaving all of us no doubt as to the expired nature of your medication.

Six -- Nanoseconds after reading the post I mention as point five, I realize you have missed the point completely. "Teleportation is impossible in a canon Shadowrun game" is a simple statement of fact. To ignore the "in a canon Shadowrun game" part is you wallowing in delusion and purposefully misreading the statement, in order to then defiantly place your maniacal gaming group on some pedestal for attaining the impossible, instead of accepting the fact they are using a house rule. The point of my post was to clarify that, to explain that you were using a house rule, and nothing more. Instead, fantastically, you somehow turned my proclamations of impossibility into some sort of challenge, then proclaimed your group above such mortal concerns as "rules" and "rulebooks" and "reason," instead of (once again) admitting it's just a house rule.

Seven -- Wholly unrelated to the rest of the chain of events, but I think I smell some bullshit when you brag on how long your GM has been playing. I'm curious as to what you mean by "his teens" because the claim you make about his age, and how long he's been playing (again, dependent upon "his teens" and what that means), he must be Rob Boyle or something, 'cause he started playing Shadowrun before anything was published.

Eight -- I admit I'm just continuing with the numbers trend, again, but this one's related to Seven. I think it's lame to try and brag about how long you've been playing Shadowrun. I think it's lamer to brag about how long your GM has. That's like not only arguing that your dad could beat up my dad, but also/instead twisting and warping the "boast" by just saying "Nyah nyah, my dad's older than your dad." The length of someone's experience with a gaming system has little to do (as is apparent with the quality of your games as you describe them to us) with the quality of that gaming experience -- and the length of someone beside your own gaming experience is even less relevent to the defense of your delusional ways.

And, lo, sirrah. My post may be seen as "rude," but I doubt you can make a "not well thought out" charge stick. Feel free to reply at your leisure. I'm at work, and bored.

We weren't confused, you just never told us what you were doing before. Its no big deal. Your "board", your rules.

If you like the SR setting and not the Karma rules, groovy. Just don't expect us to know how you set your Karma awards and balance the costs without telling us.

And personally, I don't care if physics is suspended in your world either, that is your biz.

Now back to your regularly scheduled pissing contest.

What are you, the physics cop?

Or maybe they just Faded away. Not actual teleporting, but close.

Cannot alter mass in a way extensive enough to substantially ater time and space.

or

Altering mass counts as an indirect (see the first line of the rules quoted above) manipulation of space/time.

I personally like the first one. I also wouldn't allow any spells that alter gravity.

Wow, Ironically you just provided a fantastic argument for the correct use of the word canon. Letting us know something is canon or not sets the framework for the conversation so everyone has a common frame of reference. Thanks!

Hey, we already discussed your issue in another thread. Still got that chip on your shoulder?

It's like the DSM-IV (the diagnostic manual for psychiatry)... it's not there to provide a comprehensive listing of all known psychiatric disorders (although Medicare/Medicaid seems to think so). It provides a common frame of reference for psychiatrists to discuss the tools of their trade. It would be a professional and academic oversight to talk about someone who supposedly has Autism in a case study when he really has Asperger Disorder, for instance. No two psychiatric cases are identical, but the groupings help communicate the meaning and intent within the professional setting.

The first sentence is unqualified. Sorcery cannot affect the fabric of space and time. Not sorcery cannot directly affect, nor sorcery cannot affect much.

Conjuring is good to go, however.

~J

Aw, I just think a few of you are being pretty hard on the poor guy just because he didn't follow rules of ettiquette he wasn't aware of.

Too fucking bad for him. Whining and resorting to logical falacies and personal attacks while draping yourself in robes of pretention makes you an asshole just as much in real life as it does right here.

We all learn them, one way or another. Some folks prefer to lurk before they leap, staying a wallflower until they are ready to hit the dance floor. Others dive into it like drunk socialites at a soiree, and are surprised when they find out that perhaps the conversation topics and general consensus aren't a mirror of their own.

You're leaving out a few antagonizing factors that led to some of the flames in this thread and, as such, your statement is rather off base.

The usual trigger for a "canon beatdown" is usually not suggesting someone has more or less knowledge than another. The trigger factor is almost always a poor/hostile response to criticism, even when the flamed person has their facts straight and quoted verbatim from canonical works.

But, as I recall, "canon" is a hot-button word for you Little Bill, so I can see where you came up with your post.

Leo Frankowski's book "Conrad's Time Machine" has objects appearing back from a trip through time in a random, peicemeal way. The effects he describes are exactly that.

Not really a good story though, IMO.

Or it could be that bizarre illusionary version of teleportation from ED.

I was going to reply with a quote and a notation that I said first line not first sentence, but I don't want to get into an argument about how something that manifestly does happen in the SR world (sorcery manipulating mass) can't happen because of the rules. Especially since I don't think Kagetenshi was doing anything other than poking a little fun.

I love the rules. They make the game happen for me. When there is a small problem with the way a rule is written or worded, I try out of reflex to make it consitant. It must be due to the fact that I always wanted a No-prize and never got one.