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frostPDP
If you scope a well-trained team of "robbers" using advanced-looking (Not even necessarily decent) skills and your only armaments are a nightsick and mace, you're not the brightest cookie to go in alone. Especially since at least one of them is bound to -look- really, really big and really, really cybered-up. Or trollish. With TV shows like Desert Wars on, I'm sure people should have the below-median IQ required to NOT go in with a club.

Now, when a corp puts you in full security armor with an assault rifle, you should at least anticipate you could die. This doesn't necessarily justify it, but at least you have the idea in your head that "Yeah, maybe I should save some money for Boosted 1. Just in case I really, really need it."

Still, depending on personal taste and situational ethics it can be hard to rationalize the need for murder. Sure, popping security guards happens. No sane Shadowrunner can figure it wouldn't. But if the dummy isn't shooting at you, instead choosing to brandish a nightstick and charge while your Improved Reflexes 3 kicks in, letting you see him in near-bullet-time, you could afford the little time it takes to pop in a gel clip. If worst comes to worst, the court will see that you had some humanity and not give you the death sentence.

BTW I just got woken up by a not-very-brilliant group of people asking to know which house in the vicinity was "the Spanish family." I might not make sense at the moment. Goodnight!
mmu1
I always tend to differentiate (for the purposes of how my characters deal with them - to some it makes a difference, to others it doesn't) between security guards whose job is the same as that of most guards today - look out for suspicious characters, check IDs, protect the property from vandalism, etc., and those who are meant to provide an armed response to threats against the corporate property.

Basically, it comes down to whether shooting intruders is a major part of your job description, and if it is, don't complain if you get shot back at. Not that the intruders are justified in shooting at you, legally or morally speaking, but you knew it was fairly likely at some point when you took the job.
Smiley
QUOTE (Sheffield @ May 17 2005, 09:30 AM)
Okay, to try and make sense out of that: The most dangerous job in the world today has a 97% survival rate over thirty years. This means that the average high risk worker is statistically justified in expecting and planning for a long life. Now say a high risk worker rolls snake eyes and gets killed by a runner. Was he wrong to have expected a long life?

No, he wasn't wrong in expecting a long life. He was wrong for choosing a profession that, while having a low mortality rate, is more likely to get you shot than, say, being a farmer or a shoe salesman. When he signed up for the job, he MUST HAVE KNOWN that there was a possibility that's he'd have to put himself in harm's way. If that didn't fit in with his world view, he should have become a telemarketer.

EDIT: Hell, look at the job description: security guard. Does that sound like the safest occupation in the world?
frostPDP
Depends on your conception of "security guard." Security guard at Area 51 - Well, someone might try to break in. Security guard at Area 69, the local restaurant and strip club? Pretty damn high, considering in 2060 its probable they have a metal detector in the door so guns don't get fired. Not to mention that, like I said, you're dumb to charge with a nightstick against people who -look- badass, let alone are or aren't.
Smiley
Regardless of whose security you're guarding, if shit goes down, you're the one that's going to be expected to deal with it. It's just how it works. Sure, most of the time it'll be minor, assuming anything happens at all. Just depends on how lucky you feel. You do have a really good chance to make it to retirement. It's like betting on red and black. Sooner or later, though, the little roulette marble is going to come up green. Double zero. Everyone loses.
frostPDP
Yeah, but nobody seiously expects the local rent-a-cop to stop armed robbers if he's not given a gun. Best he can do is try to sneak up on them or call the cops. Which is the #1 reason he exists - See if anyone's around and, if they are, hit the PanicButton. Which is why geeking him is pointless - He's so marginal a threat that KOing him is sufficient to achieve the task.
Kagetenshi
It is more likely that he will make it to that PanicButton if you're using less-lethal measures. Less-lethal is just another way of saying "less effective".

~J
Ed Simons
QUOTE (Kagetenshi)
It is more likely that he will make it to that PanicButton if you're using less-lethal measures. Less-lethal is just another way of saying "less effective".

~J

Those are a couple interesting assumptions. What do you base them on?
toturi
QUOTE (Ed Simons)
Those are a couple interesting assumptions. What do you base them on?

Can you walk when you are dead? A Trauma Dampener reduces Light Stun to nothing. Gel rounds have a Power 2 less than normal rounds of their type. Capsule rounds deliver chemicals that take effect at the end of the combat turn and has a pathetic Stun damage code.
Smiley
QUOTE (frostPDP)
Yeah, but nobody seiously expects the local rent-a-cop to stop armed robbers if he's not given a gun. Best he can do is try to sneak up on them or call the cops. Which is the #1 reason he exists - See if anyone's around and, if they are, hit the PanicButton.

If he's not trying to stop the runners (ours, anyway), sneak up on them with a stun baton, or hit a panic button, he's got nothing to worry about.

The case can be made, though, that since the guard is supposed to hit the panic button and alert the authorities who come to kill the runners, that the guard is a threat to the runners' lives and as such, can be greased with zero guilt. Like you said, #1 reason they exist, no?
frostPDP
Yeah but there's that whole issue of "necessity" which governs the issues at hand.

You really don't need anything more than to, at most, wrestle them to the ground and pop them once in the head with a gel round. If that doesn't work, pop him again. And again. Until he stops moving. He might die from that, but at least you tried to be "Merciful." Plus he's not likely to get canned if he says he got pinned down by a troll with a cyberarm.

Most runs don't occur in your local record store anyway, so most rent-a-cops don't worry about runners. If you DO rob the local record store and murder the guard because he "might in some miniscule way have been a threat," you've made such a complication out of this robbery that you don't deserve to be called a shadowrunner. In fact, I'd argue that the local 15 year old street punk could do it better.

Most occur where circumstances indicicate a "Security, shoot on sight" sort of mentality. You kill what isn't in your uniform. In those events, you've already pulled the gun.

Its like Anita Blake always says, never pull a weapon unless you are ready to use it.
lorthazar
Here is a minor misconception: If you use gel rounds the court will go easier on you. Sorry to say that you were still using a deadly weapon, one that can kill.

Another misconception: If I don't kill any guards there is no way they can get me for murder. Again, Sorry to say that ANY death that results from your felonious act is going to net you Murder 1. Even it's your buddy who failed his soak test against the the lucky burst from the guard assault rifle.

Another misconception: That the corporation has to fork out 200,000 nuyen.gif or so for each capped guard and that they will be coming to you to collct. Any corp worth it's name has insurance policies on their assets, even their secuirty assets. If they pay the family 200,000 nuyen.gif be sure that they insured him for 500,000 nuyen.gif for a tidy profit. Hell, geek enough guards on a run and you just may end up making the corp a bundle.
fistandantilus4.0
QUOTE (Kagetenshi)
QUOTE (hermit)
Ghostwalker is a Great Dragon. Take one out (reasonably easy, by the way; all you need is an orbital laser battery) and you have about 20 others knocking at your door.

False on all counts. There's no evidence that an orbital laser battery will do the trick (take a look at their karma pools sometime), and there's very specific evidence that other greats will not retaliate for the death of any given dragon. Really, I have no idea where this "dragons stand united" idea got started.

Alamaise for example
frostPDP
Lorth: 1, you'll be on trial for murder as opposed to attempted. You failed. Furthermore, you know how juries can be...OJ is free, ain't he?

2: Yeah, if your buddy is killed you're on the hook for murder. That's fair. The problem is I doubt it's a murder 1 charge. You might know UCAS law, I know I don't, but again you have to wonder if they'll get a murder 1 charge to stick on an accessory to your crime. Especially if you get away because you KOed the guy who was gonna hit the panic button then KOed the guy who capped your pal. The assumption is that you make it out alive and free.

3: The corp'll rake in huge funds, alright. That doesn't mean they'll be all happy about their topsecret paydata research being taken and shipped to Zimbabwe. Actually, it seems to insinuate a determined probability that they'll take their newfound wealth to go after the ones responsible for said theft. I'm sure they'll thank you for giving them the funds to chase you before they blow you away.

Long story short: The local rent a cop from a mini-mall in the area will probably not be armed and a credible threat. If you're knocking off the CD store and a guy flashlights you, there's no need to kill him unless you see a gun. As most shadowrunners will be able to run around in circles before the guard pulls said gun, you have time to discern this.

Its just me...But it just seems unnecessary to do it. Maybe its a moralistic standpoint, maybe...Well, maybe because if you kill the poor jacko, you have to deal with a murder investigation rather than assault with a deadly weapon.
Critias
I think everyone's making a fairly common misconception about "security guard," too. We all hear those words and we think mall-ninja. We think "guy who couldn't cut it as a cop, but likes a wonky uniform."

Remember, in Shadowrun, they're all "security guards." Lone Star is security guards. Corporate Security is anyone not specifically employed by a nation (instead of a company), who's got a badge.

When was the last time your GM had that end up being a fat guy with a mag-lite and a donut? I know I've never, once, come across that kind of security guard, during any sort of 'Run.
frostPDP
Which is why I made it a point to differentiate, moreso earlier on in this conversation, that when I think of security guards you kill and those you just beat down the line is drawn between the stereotype and actuality in SR.

Fat donut guy watching the local radio shack gets the KO

Lone Star "Security Guard" (or as we usually default to in my groups, cops) or other corp groups tend to be kill on sight.
Sicarius
Earlier someone used the Movie Heat to discuss capping security guards, and pointed to the execution style killing of the third guard during the armored car robbery, making use of the quote, "what difference did it make?"

I thought two points were salient in that example:

1. The crew also attempts to kill the psychopath who initiated the violence, which led to their finishing off the other two guards. Something to make the bloodlusty PC in every group think twice. Maybe your buddies have finally had enough??

2. in the bank job, they club the security guards, incapacitating them. Non-lethal violence is actually more effective here because its relatively quiet, and because it delays reactions. (one imagines everyone thinking when they see the first guy get hit that its just some nutjob, not a bank robbery.) But when they cops come, (loaded for bear! btw) they open up without a second thought. They are on the defensive in this case, trying to escape. And they go lethal immediately.

Assuming you accept the notion that 1. the criminals in HEAT are professional, and you assume 2. that Shadowrunners are generally professional criminals (a term popular on these forums in this regard I think) that 'runners probably Do make a distinction between doughnut muncher and CorpSec badass. I think it would be a pretty weak team which did not have capability to escalate or de-escalate their level of violence depending on the threat.

Ed Simons
QUOTE (Sicarius)
Earlier someone used the Movie Heat to discuss capping security guards,

Excellent points. If we take Heat as an example of how professional runners behave, then:

1) Professional runners do not routinely kill, they kill only if necessary.

2) Professional runners try to kill runners that do routinely kill.
Ed Simons
QUOTE (toturi)
Can you walk when you are dead?


The security guard canít walk when heís unconscious, either. smile.gif

And you canít Stim Patch a dead guard and question him.

QUOTE (toturi)
A Trauma Dampener reduces Light Stun to nothing.


So basic security guards in your version of Shadowrun all have this 40,000 nuyen piece of cultured bioware?

QUOTE (toturi)
Gel rounds have a Power 2 less than normal rounds of their type.


And most armors have lower impact ratings than ballistic ratings.

QUOTE (toturi)
Capsule rounds deliver chemicals that take effect at the end of the combat turn and has a pathetic Stun damage code.


Youíre right about the first, but Iíve never considered 6D Stun to be pathetic.

And donít forget the joy of shock weapons.
toturi
I certainly consider capsule rounds to have pathetic Stun damage codes, even worse than gel rounds since those things don't even get the Knockdown Test bonus.

The guard cannot be Stim-patched to come after you 1 round after you put him down.

While it is true that there are more types of armour with lower impact ratings than ballistic ratings, consider that Synth Leather and Real Leather are Always Available. I would consider them to be more widespread than any armour with Availability of 2.
Kagetenshi
QUOTE (Ed Simons)
QUOTE (Sicarius)
Earlier someone used the Movie Heat to discuss capping security guards,

Excellent points. If we take Heat as an example of how professional runners behave, then:

1) Professional runners do not routinely kill, they kill only if necessary.

2) Professional runners try to kill runners that do routinely kill.

I, on the other hand, disagree that they're a good example exactly for the reasons you describe. Or perhaps more to the point, I argue that they're an inapplicable example because they're operating in a world entirely and totally alien, from a law-enforcement perspective, from that found in Shadowrun. In Shadowrun, the "police" have abandoned large sections of Seattle wholesale, and even more populated areas are abandoned after dark. The Sixth World is a hellhole.
QUOTE
The security guard canít walk when heís unconscious, either.

Stim patch. High Body or Willpower and a good roll. Willpower test to maintain consciousness after D stun.
QUOTE
So basic security guards in your version of Shadowrun all have this 40,000 nuyen piece of cultured bioware?

Most of them, no. If you want to, you can take that risk.
QUOTE
And most armors have lower impact ratings than ballistic ratings.

You can't have it both ways. Are these basic security guards with low-rated armor (in which impact is usually similar to ballistic), or do they have the good gear (in which case they're more likely to have other equipment on the side)?

~J
Smiley
Since when did Heat become THE example of the perfect Shadowrunner? If we're basing our arguments on movies that weren't made with Shadowrun in mind, I submit James Bond. How many inept guards and unfortunate security personnel has he geeked?
hyzmarca
QUOTE (lorthazar)
Another misconception: That the corporation has to fork out 200,000 nuyen.gif or so for each capped guard and that they will be coming to you to collct. Any corp worth it's name has insurance policies on their assets, even their secuirty assets. If they pay the family 200,000 nuyen.gif be sure that they insured him for 500,000 nuyen.gif for a tidy profit. Hell, geek enough guards on a run and you just may end up making the corp a bundle.

Corp citizens are probably insured by the corporation for several reasons.

1. Insurance investigators. Any insurance is going to have a clause that explicitly permits investigators to do whatever they have to do to make sure there is no fraud. Extratorial corporations probably wouldn't like other corporations' investigators to hae free access to their secrets.

2. It is simply more convient. The corporation just takes the premiums out of the employee's paycheck every month.

3. There are some jobs that disqualify a person from private insurance. I'm not sure how it is in other countries but the US military has its own insurance company because no private insurer will insure a serviceperson.
It is unlikely that corporate security guards and corporate military can possibly get anything other than corporate insurance designed especially for them. The corporaion makes a profit off of it but the deaths of random guards cut into their profits.
Kagetenshi
I'm not sure if such a business would exist, but if there is a business insuring guards in corporate facilities, they will be catering to said customers' concerns (including the issues you raise). If the industry exists, what you mention will be a nonissue.

~J
Ed Simons
QUOTE (lorthazar)
Another misconception: That the corporation has to fork out 200,000 nuyen.gif or so for each capped guard and that they will be coming to you to collct. Any corp worth it's name has insurance policies on their assets, even their secuirty assets. If they pay the family 200,000 nuyen.gif be sure that they insured him for 500,000 nuyen.gif for a tidy profit. Hell, geek enough guards on a run and you just may end up making the corp a bundle.

Your assumption only works if the corp that hires the security guards is not the insurer and the insurance company is a pack of idiots who like losing money.
Ed Simons
QUOTE (toturi)
I certainly consider capsule rounds to have pathetic Stun damage codes, even worse than gel rounds since those things don't even get the Knockdown Test bonus.


Only if you use capsule rounds with no chemicals inside, which is something only an idiot would do.

QUOTE (toturi)
The guard cannot be Stim-patched to come after you 1 round after you put him down.


So the standard guards in your version of Shadowrun are kill-crazed fanatics who will fight to the death against people who could have killed them (but didnít) even though the guard would still be suffering from significant combat penalties.

QUOTE (toturi)
While it is true that there are more types of armour with lower impact ratings than ballistic ratings, consider that Synth Leather and Real Leather are Always Available. I would consider them to be more widespread than any armour with Availability of 2.


But are they more widespread among security guards in your version of Shadowrun? And what Shadowrunner is worried about 2 points of impact armor?
Herald of Verjigorm
QUOTE (Ed Simons)
And what Shadowrunner is worried about 2 points of impact armor?

Strength 3 mages in a rating 10 void with only non-shock melee weapons.
lorthazar
Given the whole Desert Wars phenomena and the cybernetic Shadowrunners, I would assume any corporation concerned with it's bottom line would put their guards through a Marines style boot camp and advanced training. Cost more money now, but saves money later.
Smiley
Exactly. All the more reason to shoot (a lot) first and ask questions (from a safe distance) later.
Shanshu Freeman
QUOTE (hyzmarca @ May 16 2005, 05:01 AM)
QUOTE (Crimsondude 2.0 @ May 15 2005, 10:39 PM)
QUOTE (hyzmarca @ May 15 2005, 09:00 PM)
That being said, it is possible that the runners could be hired by anti-Azltan terrorists.† To most people, blowing up pyramids and beheading blood mages on international trid is a good thing to do.

Way to take the high road there, sport.

That's as assinine as the RL example.

I wasn't trying to take the moral highground. I was simply suggesting that the average UCAS citizen would be sympethetic to such action.

The source material treats corrupt magicians as sub-human maniacs. Imagine what the average higly prejudiced SR character things of them. It isn't much of a secret that Aztechnology employs a startling number of blood mages or that they're working some bad mojo down in Aztlan. Most runners would have fewer moral quams about attacking Aztechnology and their blood mages than they would killing joe security guard.

The idea of mass murderers getting their just deserts in a particulary brutal manner is appealing to most person's sense on justice. When news reaches home most Seatlites would consider such runners to be heroes if they care at all. The exception would be those who have family that work at Aztechnology or those who are corrupt mages.

Most runners would have qualms about almost certain death at the hands of Aztechnology, but they face death every day. If the plan is good, the escape route is air-tight, and the pay is exceptional there are many who will do it. There are probably a few who would simply do it out of idealism, as well.

Is anybody disturbed by the idea that hyzmarca seems consider RL Islamic extremists comparable to SR Bloodmages?

(My apologies if I misunderstand you.)




On the otherhand, I think you have a good point. Blood mages have just made different life choices than you and I, and we should respect that their path is not the same as ours, and what's true for you may not be true for us. ohplease.gif




biggrin.gif



QUOTE (Iforgetwho)
please recall that it would literally take Deus launching a massive invasion with resources he probably doesn't have.


This would make an interesting plot... revealing Deus working towards amassing armies, etc and plotting something huge... first the Arcology, then Seattle, next, the World!
frostPDP
Freeman - Probably quoting me since I came up with the bogus concept. It would make a -very- interesting story indeed. I plan to take a rather liberal view of the Comet when my gaming group gets to it (if we ever free ourselves from the D&D shackles we've put ourselves into) and there will be a few ancient islands getting corporate attention. And warfare.

Could something like Deus launch an invasion? An interesting proposition - With enough resources, oh yeah. His bumblebees would be pretty good shock troops. "Ahh what was that...AHHH!!!!" death follows soon after. But aside from that, I can predict that eventually he'd lose. To attack, he'd have to open his doors. To do that means to invite rocket launchers. Which would KO the doors and invite bigger, military-grade destruction. All of which leads to a war breaking out, one which might or might not upstage to catastrophe.

Sooo we return to our previous discussion, but since I'm sleepy I'm gonna take a nap.
Angelone
Doesn't the Draco Foundation have a bounty on both blood mages and toxics?

Anything worth guarding, from shadowrunners, will be guarded by real guards, not Mr. Doughnut and flashlight. If your team has a run-in with a rent a cop that is anything more than passing him in the stuffer shack on their way to their NERPS of choice. You probably outta take a look at your campaign, cause they are either too hard up for cash or too pyschotic to function.

Your mage shoud have the physical mask spell on the whole infiltration team. It's a damn handy spell.

I don't know about ya'll but when I imagine the SR universe I tend to see it more as a Escape from New York or LA type deal than Heat.
Jrayjoker
QUOTE (Angelone @ May 24 2005, 12:01 PM)
Your mage shoud have the physical mask spell on the whole infiltration team. It's a damn handy spell.

I don't know about ya'll but when I imagine the SR universe I tend to see it more as a Escape from New York or LA type deal than Heat.

Agreed on point 1.

I am the polar opposite on point 2. People are people, and unless you wall them off and remove all resources and support they probably won't devolve that quickly. I don't see SR walling them off into anarchy on a big scale.

Now Bug City, yeah, that's Escape from Chi-town.
Kagetenshi
QUOTE (Shadowrun Timeline)
1990 - Civil unrest intensifies worldwide. In response to the seemingly indifferent or incompetent governments, corporations begin to take matters into their own hands. Beginning with third world holdings, corporations arm their security personnel with the finest military equipment available. Professional mercenaries are hired on both short and long-term contracts. These new paramilitary assets are transferred to anywhere that civil violence threatens corporate holdings. (Shadowrun Second Edition)

QUOTE
1999 - In New York City, New York, U.S.A., the Teamsters' leadership, realizing that the city of New York cannot meet their demands, urges the rank-and file members to accept the state's final contract offer. The truckers reject the contract and the strikes continue. (Corporate Shadowfiles)

1999 - In New York City, New York, U.S.A., in response to the strike, which halts the flow of fresh foods, A massive riot erupts in New York City. Hundreds are killed and thousands are wounded in the ensuing violence hundreds are killed and thousands are wounded. (Shadowrun Second Edition)

1999 - In New York City, New York, U.S.A., during the riot, a Seretech Medical Research truck hauling medical wastes, some of which is infectious, is attacked by a mob. The mob believes that, since the truck is refrigerated, it must be a food transport. The mob tries to overturn the truck and get its contents. In what becomes a running gunfight, Seretech security comes to the aid of the corporate truckers, withdrawing them to one of the firm's medical research facilities. The enraged crowd storms the building and Seretech security fights back. By dawn, 20 Seretech employees and 200 rioters are dead. (Shadowrun Second Edition)

1999 - In New York City, New York, U.S.A., in an attempt to end the assembling of corporate armies, the city, followed by the state and federal governments sues Seretech Medical Research for criminal negligence. Seretech maintains that in defending their truck, they prevented its potentially lethal cargo from infecting the population at large. (Shadowrun Second Edition)

1999 - In the U.S.A., in a landmark 193-page decision (The United States vs. Seretech Corporation (1999)), the Supreme Court upholds Seretech's right to maintain an armed force to protect its own personnel and property. Furthermore, the Supreme Court commends the corporation for protecting innocent citizens and honoring its duty to dispose of the infectious materials safely. (Shadowrun Second Edition)

QUOTE
2000 - In the U.S.A., within weeks of its opening, the Shiawase reactor is attacked by a special assault team sent by the radical eco-terrorist group TerraFirst!. Armed with military weapons, the group penetrates the plant's security perimeter and clashes with Shiawase security forces. The Shiawase security team kills every member of the TerraFirst! team. They discover that the terrorists carry enough explosives to crack open the containment building and reactor vessel spreading nuclear material throughout the surrounding area. (Corporate Shadowfiles)

2000 - In the U.S.A. the Nuclear Regulatory Commission sues Shiawase for criminal negligence and reckless endangerment, charging that Shiawase's inadequate security had failed to prevent the terrorists from penetrating the plant's outer perimeter. Shiawase counters with evidence that not only could plant security have taken a force three times the size of the terrorist group, but that the only reason that they got as far as they did was due to security force restrictions enforced by the Nuclear Regulatory Commission. (Corporate Shadowfiles)

QUOTE
2002 - In the U.S.A., the beginning of what the media dubs "the Resource Rush." corporate coalitions demand and are granted access to oil, mineral, and land resources on U.S. federal lands. The U.S. government invokes eminent domain again and again to claim property, only to license its exploitation to a corporate sponsor. The majority of lands taken in this fashion are Indian reservations and federal parklands. Conservationists and Indian-rights groups express their shock and disgust, though corporate influence and paramilitary power make it dangerous to object. (Shadowrun Second Edition)

QUOTE
2004 - Tensions between the nations of Libya and Israel reach a flash point when Libya unleashes a chemical-weapons attack against Israel causing thousands of deaths. Israel responds with a nuclear attack. Within ten minutes half of Libya's major population centers, including Central Tripoli, Libya's capital, are completely destroyed and millions of the nation's citizens are killed. Hundreds of thousands more are killed by fallout and radiation poisoning. The UN moves peacekeeping forces into the area and the remaining Libyans are moved out of the country to new homes in Egypt, central Africa and the Middle East. Libya all but ceases to exist as a political entity. (Shadowrun Second Edition)

2004 - In South London, England, U.K., major riots break out. (London Sourcebook)

2004 - In the U.K., the first nuclear meltdown at Dungeness in Kent creates a local irradiated zone. The meltdown kills over 6,000 people including a third of a group of 800 attending a gaming convention. (London Sourcebook)

QUOTE
2005 - At 7:20 A.M. on August 12, In New York City, New York, U.S.A., the city is struck with a major earthquake that goes 5.8 on the Richter Scale. This results in over 200,000 deaths and 20 million dollars worth of damage. The only Manhattan building of any size that does not collapse is the Empire State Building. Effects of the quake are felt as far as Boston Massachusetts. As a result of the quake the East Coast Stock Exchange is moved to Boston and the United Nations is moved to Geneva. (Shadowrun Third Edition)

QUOTE
2008 - A meteor impacts with the Wheelchair (formerly Mir) space platform (recently sold by the Russians to the Harris-3M corporation) killing two of the crew outright. The rest die later when Harris-3M fails to launch a rescue mission. The orbit of the station begins to decay. (Corporate Shadowfiles)

QUOTE
2009 - In Montana, U.S.A., in immediate response to the United Oil Industries announcement a small band of SAIM members, including some one-time members of the USMC Scalpel special forces team, enters the U.S. Air Force's Shiloh Launch Facility in northwest Montana. It is unknown how the group bypasses the security systems in the facility. Once inside the silo, the group meets up with USAF Major John Redbourne, a full-blood Dakota Sioux. Redbourne knocks his partner unconscious and uses the man's keys and codes to unlock the missile launch fail-safes. The Shiloh raiders threaten to launch the facility's missiles unless all Indian land is returned. (Shadowrun Second Edition)

2009 - In Montana, U.S.A., after ten days of negotiations a Delta Team anti-terrorist group invades the silo. During the struggle, which results in the death of all the occupying SAIM members, a single Lone Eagle ICBM carrying four MIRVed five-megaton warheads is launched. The missile, which is targeted for the Russian Republic, ignores all auto-destruct signals. The military has no interceptors in position that can shoot the missile down either. (Shadowrun Second Edition)

2009 - Although denying responsibility for the launch, U.S. President Garrety informs Russian President Nikolai Chelenko of the targets of the multiple warheads. Garrety hopes to prevent a full scale retaliation by giving the Russians enough time to use semi-secret ballistic defenses to stop the missile. (Shadowrun Second Edition)

2009 - Moscow, skeptical of Washington's claims that the launch was accidental and not an attempt of a surgical strike on Russian cities, puts their forces on full alert and orders all citizens of the Commonwealth of Independent States into shelters. The U.S. public is kept unaware of the situation. President Garrety waits anxiously and as later revealed in the celebrated "back-room tapes," alternately weeps, rants, and prays. (Shadowrun Second Edition)

2009 - Shortly after being informed of the missile, President Chelenko tersely informs Garrety that the warheads have been stopped. A privately conducted stress analysis of Chelenko's voice later indicated only a 79% probability that he speaks the truth, but neither seismic nor space-based sensors record any nuclear explosions. (Shadowrun Second Edition)

2009 - In the U.S.A., when the Lone Eagle incident is revealed to the American public, the outcry against all Native Americans skyrockets. Corporate propaganda makes all Indian scapegoats for the actions of SAIM. Anti-Indian riots break out nationwide. (Shadowrun Second Edition)

2009 - In the U.S.A., the Re-education and Relocation act is introduced in response to the growing outcry against Native Americans. This act calls for confinement of anyone connected in any way with SAIM. (Shadowrun Second Edition)

QUOTE
2009 - In Dallas, Texas, U.S.A., enraged unemployed and homeless workers storm United Oil Industries' Dallas headquarters and take control of the tower. The leaders of the revolt demand that "fascist corporations" be held accountable for the city of Dallas' financial and criminal plight, that their assets be liquidated and used to revitalize the Dallas side of the Dallas/Fort Worth Metroplex. (Neo-Anarchist's Guide to North America)

2009 - In Dallas, Texas, U.S.A., Governor Hunter Carstairs calls in Texas Ranger Assault Teams to quell the Dallas riot. After the smoke clears, six mercenaries are dead, five United Oil Industries employees are seriously injured, and 167 rioters are killed. (Neo-Anarchist's Guide to North America)

2009 - In Texas, U.S.A., in response to the Dallas riots, the Texas state legislature passes laws giving corporate security forces carte blanche in dealing with armed intruders. (Neo-Anarchist's Guide to North America)

QUOTE
2035 - In Atlanta, Georgia, CAS, The Insurance War. Cord Mutual Insurance and North American Eagle Life Insurance wage a semi-covert war over the insurance contract for all employees of the CAS government. On June 8, six Geas jets explode simultaneously in flight from their Atlanta departure point. Geas Airline is insured by North American Eagle Life Insurance which pays out huge sums both for the jets and the relatives of slain passengers. No connection is made with Cord Mutual. A sweep of assassinations of vidstars and entertainment personalities across the continent, especially in Atlanta, follows. Eventually North American Eagle's corporate investigators make a connection between one of the assassinations and Cord Mutual. North American Eagle begins funding a terrorist organization known as the Medusa Sisterhood to retaliate against Cord Mutual. The Medusa Sisterhood makes a series of vandalous attacks on Cord Mutual-Insured corporations and individuals. Cord Mutual responds with attacks against the Medusa Sisterhood as well as North American Eagle. What began as a clandestine corporate power struggle becomes a bloody war, claiming the lives of hundreds of insured. (Neo-Anarchist's Guide to North America)

I could go on. Do you need more evidence?

~J
Mr.Platinum
After reading SOTA64! it's a profession.
Critias
QUOTE (Angelone)
I don't know about ya'll but when I imagine the SR universe I tend to see it more as a Escape from New York or LA type deal than Heat.

That's certainly true for lots of places, but there are still plenty of spots full of almost-normal looking everyday almost-2005 looking lifestyles. There's certainly quite a bit more "Escape from LA" or whatever in Shadowrun than in real life, but there's still enough of the "every day businessmen and women looking almost normal" gig going on that it's still the norm rather than the exception.

It all depends on what part of town you're in, in Seattle for instance.
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