Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: SR4 Cover
Dumpshock Forums > Discussion > Shadowrun
Pages: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5
blakkie
It is obvious. HMGs gyro-mounted to cyberfeet! Frees up your hands to flip off your opponent right before you blow them away. It can be a bitch to walk though while the gyros are running. frown.gif
Crimsondude 2.0
Nah, it's only three bullets. Either the guards have really lousy aim, or maybe the burst-fire rules really suck that a burst aimed at the ninja elf chick goes around her.
blakkie
You try to shoot straight with your feet when you are doing the Tinkle Dance.
tisoz
I think the elf ninja chick is really hiding her face (not just because it's a ninja thing) to hide the embarassment of forgetting to wear armor on the run. I guess the others don't plan on being seen.

Poor plan.
Crimsondude 2.0
Yeah, it really does look like amateur night.

After all, why is the sam just standing there not only not paying attention (shiny spur! shiny, shiny spur!) but is facing in a direction where he can't see his teammates or provide covering fire or counterassault fire from the ZIC team coming up the alley to pin them into a kill zone. He should be the first person in to kill everyone he sees so ninja elf girl doesn't get blown away (or not, as it seems).
Taki
May be you are a bit hard with that picture ...
The sam looks great (despite of his funny gun),
The ninja elf and the mage(?) troll look good,
-don't want to see the dwarf - uahrk ugly dwarf-
The street is good enough (but were are the shadows ?)

So the picture is pretty good ...
*Ah the postures are silly, and no movement exist on this drawing*
sleepy.gif
I am with you on this one Critias ... plain black and logo would be better ... I am happy with that picture IN the book, not ON it.

I hope they will do better for d20 SR5
Crimsondude 2.0
QUOTE (Taki)
May be you are a bit hard with that picture ...

Yeah, it's a bitch having standards.
Eldritch
QUOTE
I hope they will do better for d20 SR5

eek.gif
grinbig.gif
Omega Skip
Judging a book by its cover, are we? wink.gif

Whoa, just whoa. From a marketing point of view, this cover represents a singularly bad decision on the part of whoever was responsible.

As has been stated before, this cover does nothing at all to the newcomer who doesn't really know what Shadowrun is about. The archetypes represented on the cover should give even the casual observer an idea of what this game has to offer, and I seriously doubt the appeal of a product where you (judging by the cover) can play characters such as some sort of brain-damaged midget or a disgruntled old guy in a duffle coat.

The main gameplay/setting elements in Shadowrun are teamwork, high-tech & magic, and mission-based adventures (at least for me this is the lowest common denominator; YMMV). The cover tries to show us a situation where a group of characters is seen working together as a team, using both high-tech and magic to accomplish a mission. However, none of these elements is characterized very well.
  • We have to assume the characters are a team because, well, there's four of them and they're not shooting each other, so they kinda sorta probably work together or something. But we don't really know.
  • The use of high-tech and magic on this cover also fails to convince. Magic is only represented by some sort of lightning coming from the Troll's finger tips; nothing else in the entire scene tells us there might be something supernatural in this world.
  • High-tech is a bit more visible on the cover: there's midget-man with what seems to be a holographic projection, there are some red beams coming out of the doorway, and there are flying things in the background. But none of this is very interesting. The techno midget is the most ridiculous character here, which completely ruins what could have been a very cool element. Also, neither the beams nor the flying cars seem to be a threat to anyone, so why should we care?
  • Finally, the mission, the real meat of Shadowrun. What exactly are these guys trying to accomplish? Your guess is as good as mine. I figure the midget (don't try to tell me this is supposed to be a dwarf, 'cause it sure as hell aint!) is organizing his new iPod's playlist, old guy is trying to catch his daughter's escaped pet rat, while the Troll and the Elf chick are kinda sorta storming what seems to be the entrance to club ZIC (remember, Shadowrun newbie looking at the cover).
Conclusion? This cover will certainly do nothing for new players, and for us who are already familiar with the game, it will only serve as a reminder what this game is not. (Or rather, what previous editions of the game weren't)

But if this cover is really that bad, how come it was picked as the cover for SR4? That's what's really interesting to me. The person who should be making such a decision (known as "Brand Manager" or a similar term) must know what kind of target audience they are trying to reach, and he/she must also know what exactly the product is about. Furthermore, it is this person's responsibility to know what the competition is doing and to find ways in which the product can be advertised so that it stands out from the rest. This manager needs to be in constant contact with the contracted artist in order to communicate neccessary changes to the design, because the art must first be tested on focus groups to ensure that it has the desired appeal.
This (final?) cover doesn't vibe well with some people here, and now we can discuss what this means. It would be easiest to assume that the manager in charge of the cover art simply wasn't doing a good job. Maybe the artist was given too much freedom, kind of like "Yeah, whatever, it's just the cover..." Or it could be that they are targetting a different audience with SR4, but I have absolutely no idea which audience could be attracted by this cover art. Possibly the focus groups weren't picked well, or the feedback wasn't used. Who knows...

Bottom line: This cover is a mess, and I am afraid that it could be an indication of the general art direction for this new edition. If so little effort is spent on such an important detail... anyways, I've seen and read enough: I will not buy the 4th edition unless it gets some really stellar reviews. What a pity.
Crimsondude 2.0
QUOTE (Omega Skip)
Judging a book by its cover, are we? wink.gif

Why not? People who see it for the first time and don't play SR will.
Grinder
QUOTE (Omega Skip)
I've seen and read enough: I will not buy the 4th edition unless it gets some really stellar reviews. What a pity.

Just because of the cover? eek.gif
Omega Skip
No, not just because of the cover... wink.gif However, this falls in line with a few other things I've read about the general direction of the 4th edition in the past weeks (both official and on these very boards), and this is my own personal conclusion. To me, the cover says that
  • Even the people making/marketing the game have no clear idea of what the game's identity should be
OR
  • This "new Shadowrun" isn't for me.
Taki
It s a shame : the style of the picture is good ...
Some little work on the sketch to have better character gesture and positions would have been enough to have something much more appealing to me.

The work missing on the picture is one of the most important thing in shadowrun : teamwork.
Buzzed
There are 4 reasons why this cover art is not worthy: (from an artwork perspective)

1. The characters are not centered in the picture, leaving a large void in the whole left side. This is very awkward. I took this picture and cropped it. Look at how much better it looks: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v621/Buz...ed/sr4cover.jpg
But this would have probably been cropped in a simular way when they got to the point of placing the title and logo on the cover and finishing touches.

2. The characters lack any emotion. Making the situation depicted as exciting as watching a black and white sex education video.

3. The artist overlaps too much. Here is a list of things we cant see: The Trolls back, the end of the troll's shotgun, the female's weapon (where did that hose come from anyway?), the female's face (cutting corners?), both of the female's feet.

4. Lack of city detail. There was very little imagination involved with the buildings. The lack of pipes, windows, lights, and vents is evidence of the artist's rush job. They clearly were shown as "filler space." the huge dumpster shows the artists shortcut in avoiding the detail work with the background.


Things I think would help this picture:

* MORE RED! The lack of red conflicts with the overall feeling of the mood. It's a firefight, thus the feeling should be panic and suspence. The large amount of blue takes away from this feeling. My suggestions would be to change the hallway lighting from white, to red. And perhaps add a crash fire to some of the background (notice the smoking remains of a droid in the upper-right indicating that something happoned)

Enemies! For this scene to truly be dramatic, we need to see what our foe looks like. The enemy doesn't need ot be visible in the hallway, but perhaps we could have some action in teh ally background? Yes, this would mean removing the dumpster. Or perhaps some sniper action from a rooftop (finally giving that sam something to do, he can fire back.)

And last but not least, more magic perafanalia. It's too techno. Magic got teh shaft.
Critias
Hey. Everyone, take a good close look at that bald guy in the trenchcoat. The one we've all been calling "the street sam with the retarded spur." Then take a look at the PhysAd Archetype (BBB p. 65). Check out the basic features, the what-looks-like-a-tattoo on the shaved skull (particularly the stuff over the right eye, same could-be-a-circle thing), etc.

What'cha think? Could be he picked up a little cyber (and a shirt) between editions? Or does he just look exactly like that guy, 'cause this artist's the same guy, and thinks bald dudes with tattoos, similar features, etc, look cool?
Nikoli
I suggested that already.
Eldritch
Wow. A lot f well written, thought our constructive Criticism.

Cool.

And it's all negative. Is there any chance of a change?
question.gif question.gif question.gif


Please?
Shinobi Killfist
QUOTE (Crimsondude 2.0)
Nah, it's only three bullets. Either the guards have really lousy aim, or maybe the burst-fire rules really suck that a burst aimed at the ninja elf chick goes around her.

Well not knowing the dodge rules in SR4 I cant comment on its rules but lets put it in SR3 perspective. Guard SM skill 4, 2 dice form combat pool, saving rest to surviving the combat turn. Has a smartlink base target 2. Fires a burst lets say TN 3 after rc and compensation. Average 4 successes. Ninja chick goes oh crap roles her entire pool to dodge and gets 5 success on a TN5. Unlikely sure impossible no. Especially since the guard could of used no combat pool saving it all for survival, he could of had virtually no RC compensation. Combined his successes are what 1 or two then. So the ninja chick needs a whopping 2 to 3 5's on a dodge check to completely avoid the damage.(she's like weaving between the bullets ohplease.gif )

An average guard can easily miss on a burst in SR3, if the player throws a lot into the dodge test. Heck in SR2 even easier perhaps. Guard has a threat rating 2, so gets good successes, but dodge was based on your damage resist TN. With the annoying armor stacking rules in fields of fire the dodge TN could of been 2. And with combat pools refreshing every pass blowing it all on one dodge test isn't unusual.

Still the picture isn't to my taste. And IMO does little to motivate people to pick the book up.
nezumi
QUOTE (Eldritch)
Wow. A lot f well written, thought our constructive Criticism.

Cool.

And it's all negative. Is there any chance of a change?
question.gif question.gif question.gif


Please?

Sure, I'll try for a change.

Pikchur is stupd, lol teh strete sam is lookign teh worng way!!!11!1!11oneoneon

(There, completely unconstructive. That the sort of change you wanted?)
Crimsondude 2.0
QUOTE (Shinobi Killfist)
QUOTE (Crimsondude 2.0 @ Jun 18 2005, 01:07 AM)
Nah, it's only three bullets. Either the guards have really lousy aim, or maybe the burst-fire rules really suck that a burst aimed at the ninja elf chick goes around her.

Well not knowing the dodge rules in SR4 I cant comment on its rules but lets put it in SR3 perspective.

Perhaps I should have emphasized the last part of that sentence:

a burst aimed at the ninja elf chick goes around her.
blakkie
QUOTE (Buzzed @ Jun 20 2005, 08:48 AM)
1. The characters are not centered in the picture, leaving a large void in the whole left side. This is very awkward. I took this picture and cropped it. Look at how much better it looks: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v621/Buz...ed/sr4cover.jpg
But this would have probably been cropped in a simular way when they got to the point of placing the title and logo on the cover and finishing touches.

I like your cropping choice. It is a really good point that this image is really only part of the final image that we'll see. I noticed the dead space too and assumed that as part of the logo placement it would all look a bit more balanced on the actual book. That is what i had in mind when i mentioned in another that thread that there is hope that when it is put into it's final context that it will have some more energy.

As for the overlap maybe what happened there is they tried to push a landry list of things into the picture? The were trying to get it in where they were certain it wouldn't get covered up with the logo. The result is that the 4 archtypes got smooshed into a space that was really to small for them.

You cropping really highlights how cluttered things are in that area of the picture. Adding those laser sight beams, or whatever they are suppose to be, really was overload on top of a full area. They really dominate, at least as that picture appears. I don't see it improving just by blowing up the image to cover size.

Take those beams out (or at least reduce it to one or two?), move the sam guarding the rear left enough to give a bit of a gap between him and the troll, and place it on the cover with logos giving roughly the same crop you did (little more room on left for the sam moved over) and it starts to have real promise.
Eldritch
QUOTE (nezumi)
QUOTE (Eldritch @ Jun 20 2005, 12:03 PM)
Wow.  A lot f well written, thought our constructive Criticism.

Cool.

And it's all negative.  Is there any chance of a change?
question.gif  question.gif  question.gif


Please?

Sure, I'll try for a change.

Pikchur is stupd, lol teh strete sam is lookign teh worng way!!!11!1!11oneoneon

(There, completely unconstructive. That the sort of change you wanted?)

Hahaha....Ha. smile.gif

No, I was hoping that there is still time for them to change the cover.

Either The Black embossed we discussed, Or my Neon orange with the finger on it. biggrin.gif

nezumi
QUOTE (Crimsondude 2.0)
a burst aimed at the ninja elf chick goes around her.

"Will I be able to dodge bullets?"
"You won't have to."


Eldritch - sorry, I can't change that part. You suppose if Wizkids got a piece of quality art the artist let them use for free, that they might trade that out? I know an artists of extraordinary quality who I could beg into doing a super favor for me.
Eldritch
I duuno - there may not be enough time. Though, they may be of a mind "We've decided, and we're sticking with it" - Ya know? Have your artist put something together, quick sketch or something. Mebbe their mind can be changed...

It'd be cool though. (They shoulda had a cover design/art contest to help promote SR4.....)
frown.gif

Spark
This cover has mulitple problems with it.

1. To pastel
2. lack of shadows
3. This is the mos absolutely f-cking clean alley i have ever seen!
I mean seriously where are the pools of slimy muddy water and the garbage next to and on the walls?! If somebody added a cardboard sheet with say dirt, water or blood stains on it and propped it on the side of the bin where the little pieces of cardboard are and put a pair of eyes in the shadow that it would create it would get a much more creepy silent death type feel to it.
4. This should be at night to add an edge to it. (black against some neon type signs would really catch the eye.)
5. The color palatte needs to be darker, think browns and charcoal etc.
6. as has been said the characters do not fit.

In all i would suggest that the cover artist take a look at the cover and in game screen shots from the Hitman PC game series. Those shots would be great! Sure computer generated on that level would be difficult but damn! Place the alley on center, make it night time with a couple of vehicle lights in the distance, a dim yellowish-orange streetlight that has been partially shot out over the door or a little farther down the alley on the right side. Some cracks in the main entranceway. The troll is a little farther back and in a shadow so only half or part of the face is truly revealed (you know that look you get under streetlights like that that really through thngs into contrast and catch on features and cause shadows and wierd highlights?) the shadow would also emphasize his mana or lightining bolt which could be kind of echoed by the colr scheme around his head in actnic white bule and slightly purpleish light. The same could loose the spur but be wearing a type of bracer with some type of a crescent saw type thing, (making for a nasty multi-directionl swipe) and he could be dressed in brown and black leather trench in the style that he has now but made to appear wieghted as if it was lined with armor. The ninja elf could be towards the bottom right of the pics dragging a halfseen body off or checking him for weapons. The hacker could be taller with a beard and a mean prison yard look and be dealing with a maglock that was shorting out (i.e. sparking) the door could be partially open and fire causing the hacker to duck and the sam to just be caught in the act of throwing ro tossing a grenade.

Anyways long idea and probably boring but if it was renderred like the cover and game of the Hitman series wit would look whiz.

any comments on this idea?
Mongoose
QUOTE (mmu1)
QUOTE (SR4-WTF? @ Jun 9 2005, 09:45 AM)
QUOTE (mmu1 @ Jun 9 2005, 09:39 AM)
2. A transparent magazine that's mostly obscured by the opaque grip of what should be a smartgun is actually rather silly. "Uh-oh... The transparent part of my mag is empty! I now have... between 10 and 1 rounds in the gun... Damn, I wish I could read, so I could use the smartlink ammo readout in my field of view..." wink.gif

Smartlink doesn't help when the clip is not in the weapon, which coincidentally is right around the time that you're much more likely to see the whole clip. smile.gif

Which comes into play how often? It's only useful if you're doing something stupid to begin with - specifically, commonly carrying half-empty ammo clips around with you - and assumes you actually have the time to examine the clip and count the bullets as you load.

In real life, the only weapons (AKAIK) that use transparent mags are ones where the whole clip is visible at all times - and the benefits are not universally recognized, since hardly anyone has them in service. I think the use of plastic has more to do with weight savings than with transparency anyway...

Transparent gun clips might make it easier to identify which SORT of ammo the contain, when you are selecting which (full) clip you want to load. Smartlinks don't help with that.
FrostyNSO
To expand on that since somebody will say, "just look at the top round in the mag before you load it":

Certain units will sometimes load a few tracers as the first 4 or so rounds in the mag so their teamates can easily identify where exactly they are shooting, regardless of what kind of ammo makes up the rest of the mag.

If you use "normal" magazines, the only way to identify what's what is to use a paint marker (or piece of tape and a permanant marker) to mark on the bottom of the mag what it is. Also, only carrying certain mags in certain places on your webgear helps too.
tisoz
QUOTE (Spark)
This cover has mulitple problems with it.

1. Too pastel

That is what I couldn't put my finger on. The Tone it exudes is wrong.

QUOTE
3. This is the most absolutely f-cking clean alley I have ever seen!

Too true. I've seen alleys on space stations depicted as being dirtier.

QUOTE
5. The color palatte needs to be darker, think browns and charcoal etc.

Another good observation. Especially if SR4 is intended to be grittier.

It may be too late to add in some debris for #3.

I am not sure, but from what a friend who ran a printing press has said in the past, there is a chance the color could be adjusted by the printer. It depends on what type of equipment they are using as to how easy this could be accomplished.
Overwatch
I have been a drooling fan boy since SR4 was announced. I've been keeping up with the various postulated changes in both rules and story, and I'm really looking forward to the arrival of the new book, and a fresh new look at Shadowrun.

That being said, they really MISSED THE MARK on this cover. It falls short of encompassing the "feel" of Shadowrun. Like the lights are on, but no one is home. Now I'm not detracting from the artwork itself. I love almost everything that Mark Zug has done. (sometimes looking at his ork underground piece really makes me feel sad for the orks.) But this cover piece seems to lack...A Soul.

I'm all for sacrificing some believability for better visuals. Why didn't Sally Tsung wear
an armored vest under her long coat? because she looked better with out it smile.gif But this cover seems like window dressing instead of a new banner for Fanpro to wave over it's new product line. Had I not been informed of SR4 and some one shoed me this cover and asked me to guess what it was for, the first thing to come to mind would have been... SHADOWRUN DUELS

If there are any other cover options, Fanpro should definitely explore them.

Aku
ok, herea a few that i made some changes too. This black and white version had some blues dropped out of it, and reds added, as well as a general over all lowering of the levels to make it darker and grittier.

this one i'm sort of indifferent too, it's a slight change, just taking the sky color and turning it a maroonish color, i think it's sort of ugly, but i still think it's an improvement as well some how, giving a sense of foreboding (to me atleast)

and This onedarkens everything up but the runners, it was done rather hastily, and could be touched up a bit more, but i think it's a nice highlight to how i feel it should look.
Shadow
Hey Overwatch aren't you being harsh. I am sure (just like the Dev's) the artist really loves Shadowrun and would never do anything to hurt it....


I mean if the Book is as half assed as the cover then it should be great...
Synner
QUOTE (Shadow)
I mean if the Book is as half assed as the cover then it should be great...
SR3 / SR3
Shadow
I liked the SR2 cover, I also liked the SR3 cover. It was dark and gritty which is what I keep hearing that SR4 is going to be... except this cover is anything but dark and gritty. More like cartoonish and silly. See my earlier comments along with everyone elses to know how to make it better.

Fanpro could still go with a different cover, it's not to late to change it.
Shadow
It would be great if Adi Granov did the cover art. His stuff just oozes grittiness.

Survival of the Fittest
ThatPaolo
Ok, it's obvious that Fanpro doesn't have the means to pay good artists. Now my question is, had FASA more "largesse" with regard to paying great artists (Nelson, Bradstreet, Laubenstein, Hooper, even *gasp* Bergting) or the current price for art suddenly rocketed to the stratosphere?

question.gif
ThatPaolo
QUOTE (Shadow)
It would be great if Adi Granov did the cover art. His stuff just oozes grittiness.

Survival of the Fittest

Nothing done with an airbrush can possibly "ooze grittiness".
Kagetenshi
You've never stabbed someone to death with one, have you?

~J
ThatPaolo
QUOTE (Kagetenshi)
You've never stabbed someone to death with one, have you?

~J

I woulnd't say that it oozed "grittiness" later...
SL James
QUOTE (ThatPaolo @ Jul 7 2005, 08:55 PM)
even *gasp* Bergting)

While I think his presence in Cybertechnology was uncalled-for, I can't think of anyone else whose art should have been in Bug City.

COnsidering that MacDougall was drawing in his element and screwed it up I don't know why he still gets work.
Nikoli
Honestly one of the problems with the great artists of old is that their prices have gone up. When they were relative unknowns, they probably gave the stuff away so it would be published and admired by a growing market. Now they are established, have built up their own rep, suffered lawsuits (gotta love Bradstreet & Fang issue) and a host of other real world incursions into our fantasy that good art grows on trees waiting for plucky game designers to just whisk it away for publication.
SL James
Well, yeah.
Elve
QUOTE (Nikoli)
(gotta love Bradstreet & Fang issue)

What's that?
Nikoli
Bradstreet did a large amount of the artwork for the original WoD books. In one, he used the likeness of someone that had already trademarked his likeness for business purposes without permission. Fang (the subject of the artwork) sued Bradstreet and WW over this matter. (Fang was the unwilling subject for some Brujah pieces) Many of bradstreet's early stuff in SR and WoD is taken from photographs and run through a process that turns them into chiaroscuro-like line drawings, without losing enough detail to claim they are changed enough. Sometimes he adds in details after the process to more befit the genre of the publication. With Fang, he changed nothing, Bradstreet was given the photo by someone that took the snap-shot at some convention (the details are as always with me, a little fuzzy) and Bradstreet paid for the photo, without doing proper research on the subject. Fang makes and sells prosthetic fangs, some of the best in the business from what I'm told and uses his image as the company logo.

Of course, i'm not privvy to the actual court documents, so some things may not be 100% accurate but my opinion is that the gist is there.
Shadow
QUOTE (ThatPaolo)
QUOTE (Shadow @ Jul 5 2005, 02:24 PM)
It would be great if Adi Granov did the cover art. His stuff just oozes grittiness.

Survival of the Fittest

Nothing done with an airbrush can possibly "ooze grittiness".

In your opinion...

I think the dark grays and blacks and the make up of the team make it feel very 'street' and gritty.

I don't think one style over another makes a huge difference (though I admit if it were watercolors..)
mintcar
If it were watercolours it would be gritty as hell! Watercolour is a very cool medium.

I guess most people here actually like fantasy art. As in, would post it on a wall. When I say I think the cover is fine, I mean itīs better than SR3 and generally decent for being a rpg cover. The things that are suggested here up until now wouldnīt help things in my opinion.

What would really rock would be if they used a more aesthetic artist that could find an abstract way of getting the concept and the mood of the game across. Take a look at the covers of The Sandman for an example of what Iīm talking about. Off course itīs a dream that will never come true because Dave McKean helped Neil Gaiman develope The Sandman from the beginning. If the same genius representation should be possible for Shadowrun, there would have to be a great artist not in the realistic fantasy art department who was truely passionate about the game.

(ps. Shadowtech had a great cover. I believe Dave Dorman should have done the SR4 cover if any of the old artists, just look at this site! Not that it relates to what I said above. Heīs of the same variaty as the rest, really)
FrostyNSO
Who did the SOTA63 cover art?
SL James
Marc Sasso
tisoz
The troll reminds me of the one from SR Duels, are the other characters similar to any figs? Be funny if they just arranged some figs and drew the art. It would explain their postures and a few other things.
Overwatch
wrong thread
Glav
Man, how could I miss this thread...

After looking at that picture for a long time, I knew there was some major things wrong with it...but, I didn't know how to explain it. I know I'm not a big art critic, so I got one of my artsy friends to take a quick look at the picture. Not Artsy as in "I learned how to draw anime by watching Dragonball and I post on deviantart!", but artsy, as in went to a prestigious $30k a year art college. This guy's job is to be very good at understanding how images should look. When I showed it to him, I didn't explain anything other than I thought something was odd about it. He hasn't even played shadowrun, or really heard about it until now. This is what he had to say about it.

QUOTE
Color scheme is incorrect.  They use black in the figures, but not in the background.  You don't do that.  The lighting?  The lighting is all wrong.  There are two major lighting sources.  The sun and the magic lightning.  It's so bright outside, yet, the characters aren't washed out.  The shadows on the characters, currently, would only occur in a dark room with a dynamic light - casting such shadows.  According to the picture, the sun would be behind that tower.  It looks like dusk - yet everything is so washed out.  At dusk, shadows on the buildings would become elongated.  That lightning, being broadcasts from that troll's hand, wouldn't be of any mid-range value.  It is, in fact, lightning.  It would be blinding...so much, in fact, that many of the characters would not only have to have that light reflected onto them, but also, their shadows would become elongated, and project onto the buildings.  Also - he put that huge dumpster there to hid his incorrect horizon line.  At that rate - the buildings past that scene would instantly become the size of legos.  His horizon line is at too steep on an angle.  From that angle, the camera should be close to the ground level, if not, on the ground.  His text on the left building is curving.  Also...You don't see tracer rounds during the day...hardly.  Realistically, when you have a strong light source - such as lightning - extreme lighting becomes most of the illustration.  Most of that scene should be shadows.

The background is 'expressionistic'.  It has broad brush strokes.  On the other hand, the characters contrast to the point where they are literally 'glued on'.  I'd say '...it's hard to believe it's by the same guy' - but thanks to overwhelming number of flaws in both pieces - I'd wager that it is indeed, the same guy.  The light source shouldn't change that of the original scene - or the characters around them.  The beast-wookie is blocking the (lack of) light from hitting the guy with the fore-arm spike, yet, his jacket isn't shadowed as such.  Furthermore, why does the hand with lightning have any visible detail / shadowing on the hand broadcasting the lightning?  If you notice, on the right arm of wookie-beast his shadows suggest a light source from above, and his boots, when in reality, the shadow would be a very thin line, on the lateral portion of his arm.  That blade arm?  You wouldn't see at all, if you don't count the incorrect background.  That left arm, according to the shadows of that jacket, should be shrouded in darkness.  According to the troll, the lightsource is coming from the upper-right-hand-corner of the door frame.  Lightning, also, isn't blurry.  It's very crisp.  Lightning does NOT caste a soft shadow.  Hard light = hard shadow.

Say then, what if the lightning is so bright that it's blurring the camera?  Depending on the aperture of the camera, If it's that bright, the aperture is wide open you wouldn't see the characters at all.  They'd be washed out, which would explain the background.  Since cameras work like eyes, the hole gets bigger, you get more light.  It blinds the camera, leaving the image washed out, causing you to lose detail.  But, the characters are ever-so-detailed.  If there is a lighting source from the sky, why can't we see into that guy's sleeve?

He also made a big mistake on that building, above the door.  His perspective is off; The lines aren't straight.  So, he covered it up by covering it with smoke from that random object.  The tower behind, according to his drafting, must be concave.  The lighting source is, somehow, directly above that building, making the only way for it to be that dark is for it to be concave.  Yet, the letters aren't.  That lighting is literally, impossible.  It can't occur.  Remember, When a dark goes towards a light, It becomes darker, not lighter.  On the range of value, The darkest that background becomes is a 7.  However, It should be more like a 4 or 5, According to the characters.  Well, The characters have absolute black on them...that's 0.  The background, especially with that lightning - would follow the same rules.  There are no such things are 'soft shadows' when the object is ON THE GROUND.  The further away an object is from it's lightsource, the more elongated the shadow becomes.  So the guy in the far back?  His shadow should be hitting the left building, covering the ground, etc.  However, his shadow is coming towards the camera!  Why?!


Comments in the quotes are completely his own.

Some other comments brought up in our conversation:

The characters look like they don't even belong together. It's like someone made each of them for a particular purpose, and then they were *placed* in that scene together. The street sam/adept with a spur guy's pose would make much more sense if he were, say, leaning up against a wall, right at it's corner, waiting for a passing thug or the signal to attack. A side issue with the hand spur is that his hand's anatomy is all wrong...your hand just wouldn't *do* that, even if you did have some 20k nuyen piece of equipment sticking out of it. Regardless of the anatomical impossibilities of the guy's spur fitting in his arm, his hand is completely out of shape for a real human hand. The small finger should not line up with the opposite side of his arm.

Besides, the only reason he'd have it out in that situation would be to show it off. He's got it positioned such that it's only useful purpose would be to show it off to people who are looking at the image. It's like he's screaming, "hey! Look what I can do!" It reminds me of this comic on Spamusement: ultimately pointless.

Re: The decker/hacker guy. Why is he standing there in the open? The first thing I thought when I saw that was "oh look, he's trapped in a box! Go Mimes!" That guy should be ducking for cover, laying back against the wall, not standing in the middle of the street like its a festival of the french actors. I thought *maybe* he's been trapped by the matrix and is trying to jack out (with none of his friends watching him) until I saw the hologram thingy in front of him. His hand and the animation is so far away from the animation, you can't tell that he's actually trying to manipulate it.

The Star Wars Blast door is an interesting point. The door seems to go up into the overhang. However, the perspective of the overhang leads us to believe that it, indeed, is more of an outcropping on the side of the building. So where has the raised door gone? Why isn't it sticking out the top of this side entrance?

Re, the bullets. If the runners are trying to break in to this building, (which we must assume they are, since the elf girl seems to be charging in) then they've already failed in their mission. They're not even through the SIDE door and they're already drawing fire. Maybe they've been hired as 'expendable assets', maybe they're just terrible runners, but in either case, they've really messed up. They're not even inside and they're already dodging(literally, apparently) bullets!

The expressions on all of the character's faces, too, are just so bland. "Yeah, hey everyone we're doing a run. Yep. Another run. Oh look, we're getting shot at, ho hum. I've got my back turned away from the action and I think that's okay."

Finally, The rat.

honestly...

Why would that rat be fleeing now? Why would it wait for the runners to start their assault before fleeing? It seems to have started rather close to them...is it brain dead? Was it a secret pet of one of the runners?

Yeeah...yeah...
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Dumpshock Forums © 2001-2012