Not that I wanna knock anyones hopes down...but do you people even remember Deus Ex 2... That was designed witht he consol in mind before the PC...that's what consol FPS/RPGs turn into... it'll be nice to see what this looks like, nice if it boosts Sruns visablity..but I probably won't like the crowd it brings in I know I hate the crowd Mechassult brought to Btech some days...

hmm, i have yet to try deus ex 2 but from what i understand both ammo and nanotech where simplified to be simpler to control on a console. the unified ammo thing may have been the biggest problem as it leads to people packing one weapon and one weapon only. only time you change weapon is when you have run out of ammo, and then its to a melee weapon.

atleast in deus ex 1 you where packing rockets or sabot rounds for the shotgun to take out drones, sniper ammo for the rifle (or you could deck out a stealthgun with scope and range mods to get mostly the same effect, nothing like taking down a mib from across the yard with a handgun ) and so on...

hell, if one unifies ammo, why not unify the guns to. have the barrel morph based on what you want to use it for. want sniping? it will grow long. want a big boom? it will grow fat so that it can deliver that big blob of a slug. only reason i can think of for not doing that is game balance, so that people dont start gunning down punks using rpgs

just look at how deus ex 1 starts out. yes you can get a gep gun (basicly and advanced rpg) but you will find limited amounts of ammo for it at the beginning. the sniper rifle or the crossbow is a better selection (with the crossbow you can get plenty of ammo of the goons). hell, i even think you will find a silencer you can equip on that rilfe in the early parts.

but with unified ammo you cant hand out a gep when starting as you every crossbowman you take down will be carrying ammo for it! talk about overkill...

just goes to show that you cant make a good fps on a console. not until you get one that can understand a basic keyboard and mouse but doing that to a xbox and you just turn it into a lowpowered pc

hmm, where do a modern console stop and a modern pc begin exactly? and didnt nintendo build a nes package with keyboard and printer?

If it hits big it will very probably go multiplatform.

Of course, it's only marginally useful and very expensive to pursue, skill wise.

Also, Deus Ex was cloddishly designed and ridiculously overrated, even if it was pretty good for its time.

The extremely early parts of the game, the GEP gun is just so much filler for your inventory. Incidentally, it doesn't get clips, just a max of twenty loose rounds plus one loaded. Nonetheless, neither of the other two weapons are particularly limited in ammunition (at least if you're good with the rifle) and both are available again within the first five minutes of gameplay.

~J

"Flatlander woman"

System.
Shock.
2.

One of the most brilliant games ever made, and an FPS.

To bring this somewhat back on topic (though I do have to say I enjoyed DE1, System Shock 2, and JA2 all immensely!), I wanted to drop what little I've heard about the SR game.

Last year at Origins (2004), I had the chance to play a Mechwarrior game (the RPG) run by Jordan Weisman and so got a chance to chat with him over the 4 hour period. One thing that I asked was about a Shadowrun game and without saying so much, he did say that there was work on it. It's not too surprising that it's for the Xbox as after Microsoft acquired FASA, Weisman went to work for them as Creative Director.

Considering he was able to preserve the feel and mechanics of the Mechwarrior line fairly well in the computer games, I would tend to think that he would be able to port the game over from pen & paper over to electronic...

Here's hoping for some official info soon. I wonder if the Redmond campus has a Shadowlands node.

I'm on the "SR would probably be best as being similar to the new school GTA games only better and with SR" bandwagon.

As long as it's better, and I get to shoot the fools with a tricked out Predator II...

Amen.

Because, I think, in the throes of RPG snob elitism, the people who deride this game are forgetting the core facts of Shadowrun.

The core facts of Shadowrun are that it is a game. A game that, ostensibly, is played for fun.

And that a great many of us here, whether or not we want to admit it in as many crude words, derive our fun from the simulated and/or imaginary destruction of the fools, preferably with high magic or high firepower.

Or dikoted stop signs. We can't forget those.

Show me a good FPS where I get a dikoted stop sign, and I'll be there. Until I hear more, I still don't enjoy FPS that much.

Me neither, I liked Deus Ex, but I outgrew FPS around the time Doom lost its luster.

Just to muddy the predispositions a little furthur. I recently found a copy of Anachronox. It's an interesting RPG with an interface system similar to KotOR. I haven't gotten very far in it, so I don't know how good I would consider it compared to other games, but it is built on the Quake 2 game engine. Yes, a RPG built up from the core of a FPS.

System Shock's probably the better model, due to the good use of the inventory sytem and handling of stuff like hacking and using tools. If they can do that in either the Quake 4 or FarCry engines I'll buy it. Hell, it's MS so they have the Halo engine...

Starwars:KotOR and II were sortof 1st person. It had melee as well as ranged combat and using "the force" was sortof like selecting spells and what not. Also lots of conversation options, multiple ways around situations (sometimes), could be played with different character builds...

I think a similar system could work for SR.

the problem with KoTOR is that alot of times, you can feel like you're not in control, because of the way that it handles things to make it appear like it's playing in real time\

Not to mention the fact that because all actions execute simultainously, as opposed to in an inititive order in KotOR, because it's trying to be real-time, a lot of things are broken.

Like grenades. About fecking USELESS unless you're a crack shot at judging distance.

are you crazy? grenades in KotOR are the best thing since sliced bread.

i didnt bother with the grenades as much as i did the mines... mines ROCK in both games.

KOTOR AND Jade Empire, games wher eyou can be a good guy or and asshole, but not really evil.

Yes, starting next year and finishing up around '08. In this case, that's not the important part.

~J, still hoping it's all a bad dream and that he'll wake up on the morning of WWDC and hear Steve's announced 4GHz G5 towers and 3GHz G5 Powerbooks.

I remember when people were moaning about when or even whether M$ was going to put out an SR game. Now that they have finally exercised their license options with SR, people won't stop bitching about it... Well, the more things change, the more they stay the same, right?

When we were last moaning about it, Microsoft wasn't developing for consoles and most certainly didn't have one of their own.

Of course, some people were going to moan anyway. Not some specific people, mind you—I don't think many people were just hoping that "a game, any game" would be made, they were hoping for a good game. To throw the necessary confusion into the mix, people have (shock) different opinions as to what would make the game good.

~J

Thought the devkits may be modded Macs, the actual machine is actually more powerful.

Er, no. The actual machine is more specialized. There's a difference.

~J

Heh, you're right, my brain died somewhere in the logic there. I was specifically thinking about the previously-announced (and then canned) SR video game, which I'm pretty sure was before the XBox.

~J

Search here for "Ebony and Ivory" and "gunmod."

See, even there. I didn't enjoy Morrowwind either.

Also, the other thing I realise I failed to mention is I love the team aspect of being a Shadowrunner. If the game is a one-man warehouse of skills and equipment, I'll be slightly less happy with it than I would be with a team game.

Danm you people just roll off topic. I think you dropped your train of thought on like page 3.
i've already hoisted the anti FPS charge on the IGN forums, but after this read, im starting to buckle. I still dislike FPS though, their all just so simple and mindless. but ill concede it may be do-able.
The thing im suprised is not being fretted over is the freedom in a game like this. I think anything short of a Grand Theft style open and interactive world would be tragic. And i think i only heard one bitch about probably only getting a single archatype. these are the things that'll bring the game down. Shadowrun thrives on its enormouse amount of player options. races and skills and equipment and mage/shamman/sammie/decker/rigger/etc.. if you dont have an insane amount of options to pick from it'll be a grave injustice.
am i the only one thats concerned we might get a final fantasy style so called RPG out this deal

and to be really honest untill about three days ago i really did think shadowrun was dead and gone. good be proven wrong.

Man, I hated Morrowind. Not a single thing in that game was of interest to me. I don't really handle open style RPGs well...I also hated Fallout because I found it disjointed, unbalanced, and the plot wagon didn't work so well. The first time I tried to play through the game I actually went and killed everyone in the Cathederal with only my main character while 1.) I didn't find any of the companions, since I was being very objective-orientated and 2.) I had no idea *why* I was killing everyone in the cathederal, but had some vague idea that that's what the plot wagon wanted me to do.

After that, I lost interest in the game completely. I wasn't sure where I was supposed to go next, and all of the super secret underground hidey holes were just too tough for my one character to kill everyone by himself, even with repeated reloads.

So, basically, not having clear objectives and connectedness in a RPG makes me feel frustrated, in the dark, and I have this feeling of wasting my time throughout.

I neer completeed the main storyline. I just got a bunch of mods and then moded some of them so that my character married the enslaved Vivec, married Dagoth Ur, became a godess, and ruled Morrowind.

Hopeflly, Microsoft will make this game easily modable. They probably won't, knowing how they feel about mods.

A Shadowrun FPS/SPG with an easy-to-use mod devolpment kit would rock.

*joy*