"Dude, don't hook bob up to the network, he didn't brush his teeth this morning. And he had Sushi for breakfast."

LMAO

The system wouldn’t react to signals that come from outside whatever perimeter that the Corp desired. It might be within the building, or just a certain distance back from the fence, or even just specific areas.

I also currently don't believe that Corps would use wireless systems for their security. Too subject to jamming- that would likely be more fun for the go-gangs. Run around outside with a high power jammer and just ruin the day of the sec forces inside.

ok you got me.. I was too harsh. I am sorry.

I was not actually referring to the commlink, but all of the devices that would need to be plugged in. Yes I am tedious, I apply penalties for encumberance to people that are loaded down with gear.... I do not calculate it all, but ask what they have and ballpark it.

Yes they are king in NO ... they are also really prevalent in the UK. But for high bandwidth applications and ones that require security, they still use land lines. Also those are for everyday applications.

It doesn't make fiscal sense to spend all that money to seal a lab against wireless, when you can sling a cable in for a fraction of the cost.

I do not dispute that for quick setup wireless makes sense. What I was arguing was that for long term secure solutions wireless doesn't have a place. The only wireless worth trusting is would be a direct LOS link. You cannot snoop unless you are in the path.

The FBI and other government agencies actually have brief case jammers that will disable all radio communications within a few blocks. This is to stop terrorist and other networks from communicating. It is a viable tactic now ... and would be used in the future as well. Wireless does have its place. Radios and commlinks make sense for communication, and even with the battletac system. These systems are not integral to your daily function, they are tools that you can function without. Using bluetooth earpiece on your cellphone, a pda or wireless laptop at work or home ... sure.... but somethings should and will stay hardwired. I cannot see cyberware being wireless. It could be lack of vision, but I really think it is just the practical side of me that says you control your hand via a wired syste, and a smart weapon by a induction link.

If I had a megacorp budget, I would have a van that just jams a massive area as part of my security team. If you eliminate the gun bunny's ability to use a smartlink and possibly a few pieces of cyberware, you have really put them at a disadvantage. Small wireless sensors in the grass that has been programmed to detect new signals would be as good or better than ultrasound.

Why would you spend all that money to shield a building, when you could very easily throw a few wires for less money? It also makes jack in terminals a known location to cover with security. If you can lure you enemy to a few known points you are more likely to detect them.

Do you mean "folks" or do you mean "runners?" B/c there's plenty of reason for the Joe Schmoes to go wireless. Runners, in the privacy of their own home will go wireless as well. It's only when performing those illegal acts that runners will go with a physical connection.

But I have a question for you: did your runners use microtransceivers? Nice aren't they, the way they let you communicate via subvocalization and not make audible noise or even over long distances without yelling or all those, whatchamacallits.... wires.

The only difference is now it is the norm for corps to look for radio signals.

I expect the new streetgear book will include some common 'runner agent command sets. Things like "maintain radio silence except when my biomonitor and cyberears says I've been shot, then go ahead and broadcast a warning to the others" , "when someone else broadcasts a warning slug me the data and maintain radio silence," "broadcast my GPS location when I'm unconscious using team encryption", "broadcast my GPS location in plain text at max signal rating when I'm seconds away from dying," etc.

Not necessarily: If you got Cybereyes, you just could overlay a map of the building, as the mapsoft can identify your position according to your sight.
Not all AR Programs require an active Matrix Link.

Not quite - it says 'Don't have it active at all.'... as even a PAN in Hidden Mode transfers Data between the linked Devices, thus being detectable.

As a security-scanner only scans all the time, it is actually quite a gamble to hope the run will complete before you are detected, as the Interval is 1 Combat Turn.

Considering RF reflection, how the hell would they tell the difference?

First off I was talking about a specific example. Which talked about shades. So your comments about cybereyes are off base.

And it says don't have your PAN's active. Considering they have 3 modes active, passive, and hidden. that scentence to me says Don't have them in active mode. Thats how I interprate them.

Now the test for finding a hidden node you're actively searchign for it. So you'd have to have a agent scan for it, or a decker. And whatever would have to be smart enough to determine weather or not that node is supposed to be there. Otherwise you might have someone comeing in with their active work comlink but hidden personal comlink and have security called down on them. And that doesn't make much sense.

The future's wireless is based on today's wireless that is why I am comparing it.

If you are not concerned about others being able to eaves drop, then wireless is cheaper. But running wires is cheaper than the inhibitors will have to cover all the external surfaces and will cost more than running wire. All new buildings have conduits built in. Another side effect is speed. Fibre optics are notably faster than radio waves. And everything in the "future" is running on optics you do not have to move to solid state in order to broadcast a wireless signal.

I agree with you that the book says wireless grids exist..., lots of things that are cool buzz words exist, but that hardly makes them practical or cost effective.

I will also agree with you that there are many places where wireless will and should exist. Any lab that is not secure, would be a great place for it to exist. I agree that not having a wire attached to your head gives you a huge amount of freedom.

Any network or subnet with sensitive data, should be wired and wireless has no place is with critical devices. Wifi is not getting anymore secure. There are some very glaring flaws that are not going to change in the short run.

It shouldn't frag the team. You loose comm, but you have hand signals, and other cues. Losing your smartlink is just something that I think should not be chaulked up to collateral damage. I do not agree with dangling wires, but I would also suspect that smartgun wires are in the mage's case running under clothing.

Your smartgun should not be wireless, and neither should any cyberware that is not a remote eye drone or commlink. There is no reason to loose your site, hearing, or smartgun link short of having your cranium opened... and by then I do not think you will be using them much.

Here is a cool idea. ... a nanite wire system that is on your skin, from your palm up along your arm, shoulder, neck to your glasses. That is relatively foolproof unless your arm takes a good whacking from a sword.

In Vietnam the US learned that hi-tech was not always better. The Ak's are low tech and take a heck of a beating. I think the urban soldier will be in the same boat. There are some wizzbang toys out there ... and in some places they are perfect ... but on the streets, lowtech and lethal means dependable or secure results.

The future network is only somewhat based off of our rl newwtworks. But also remember IRL fiber optic networks are HIGHLY expensive and not practical in the least. So if you want to say the future wireless will just be like our current wireless, well then how did they manage to suddently overcome all the downfalls of fiberoptic cabeling?

Seriously now 65 years in the future I think they will have made some vast improvements on wireless technology don't you? Well thats a stupid question. Your views already show that you don't believe any improvements will be made, or atleast any significant ones.

Alright lets move on to your other points so to speak.

Allow me to share a sidebar for you found on page 223

Wireless grids are the norm. Wired matrix's exist within the corps yes, but they are by no means the norm. Instead wireless tiered systems are more common.

Oh and as for wired grids being cheaper? Do you have any idea how much work it takes to add more network jacks if you need it? Or if you decide you need to change the topography of your office? Not only is it expensive it also takes a good bit of time. This is all ontop of fiberoptic cable being expensive and not overly flexible itself.

I know several buisnesses that had to change buildings because the way they then needed to resetup their office they couldn't do it with the current network layout and it was cost innefective to change that.

Good, that's the first step. Admitting you have a problem.

Wouldn't that be the same thing as a skinlink?

Some hardwired glitch ideas:
- wires have worked themselves into uncomfortable spots (-1 to conceal tests from fidgeting)
- wire is tangled around gear (can't drop item or reload)
- wire is kinked (no further communication between gear and commlink)
- wire is irrevocably snagged on fence/doorjam/hood ornament - must be cut free)

Some hardwired critical glitch ideas:
- wire popped out (spend a simple action to reattach)
- wire is tangled around holster/pocket (can't get gun/item out of holster/pocket)
- wire is causing a feedback loop (-1 to all tests until disconnected)
- wire snags on something, but eventually works free (character has just enough time to spot the grenade pin dangling from the end of the knotted wire )

well ... I was thinking that it the nanorwire is not cyberware, it is for a smartlink goggles, to avoid the snags

Cyberware would have the wires subdermal.

I would imagine the system already has to deal with RF reflection to a large extent just to operate at the required level of bandwidth and stated level of effectiveness.

They certainly have the processing power to map RF characteristics of the area around the corp site and then filter out any problems.

Beyond that, it's basically sci-fi tech beyond our knowledge and thus is something of a rubberband. Who even says it's RF for that matter (asks the guy without the book)?

It may be fun to base an run around such reflections, judging just the right point where one is not visible and where one is. If so, it may be the one fun part of an otherwise not too interesting concept IMO...

In one of the SR3rd edition books, a metre of fibreoptic costs 1 nuyen. So it would certainly be withing the reach of Joe Schmoe to fibre his home network. Maybe not as convient, but there certainly isn't any sort of cost barrier to doing so.

Skinlink isn't (necessarily) Cyberware either, and can be used just fine with goggles or glasses.

Except those owned by Saeder-Krupp. I'm sure there were others that "survived" mostly intact simply because they weren't "important" enough for Winternight or through sheer dumb luck.

How come they didn't go down?

Because Lofwyr had a secret Matrix killswitch that isolated all of Saeder-Krupp's assets from the rest of the grid. It's in the prologue of System Failure. He knew "something" was coming, although the details at the time was sketchy, so with that forewarning he prepared his empire for the hit.

If you got a Camera incorporated, which is basic for a Commlink, it work with Shades, too.

Which is not quite accurate.
First, your PAN is active even in Hidden mode - as it tranfers data, there is still an active broadcast running... in the best case just 3 meters wide, but running nonetheless: You are detectable, though it takes some time and with much luck, will never happen.
Second, if they talk about Modes, they do it capitalized and in the full term - the sentence would end with 'Active Mode'.

Now guess what an automated Security Scanner does.
Sensors don't need no additional care.

That makes the hell of a sense, as being good citizens they should not only not use different commlinks, but especially not run the other one in Hidden Mode - do they have to hide something?

If there is wireless communication going from me to my team mates, and back again, then in real terms we can't be hidden. Ok it might be massively encrypted, but there's a signal there. Even if the signal is only supposed to have a range of a few metres, there must still be some signal travelling further than that which can be picked up. If an area is expecting zero wireless activity, and spots weak encrypted signals, that's surely got to set off some alarm (assuming a wired sensor looking out for this)?

Let's the badguys eject your clip. If there's a standard eject clip command, then a hacker can broadcast hacking instructions, can possibly gain access without receiving any confirmation back, and send an eject signal. So they don't even need to be in your 3m range.

Badguy fools your team into thinking you're dead, they panic, they do something stupid.

Badguy throws a gas grenade, and turns off your air tank.

And a badguy turns them off again.

I'm blind!!!!! Where's that badguy gone?

Shouted to team mates: Urrrg.. I can taste (^&**^&$ who's fucking with my taste booster??
Badguy: *bang*

Puppet on a string.. turns around and shoots his own side.. actually.. I SO want to do that to the bad guys!!!

In order to eject clips and see what others see, etc .... you would need to crack the encryption.

Which is a whole new bunch of bananas since cyberware has internal routers and firewalls, but anyone thought about cyberware viruses or expoits? There are bugs and holes in systems, even cisco routers. It would be really nasty of a corp to broadcast smartlink exploits and viruses.

For instance Ares knows about a software exploit or puts one in for smartlinks, but makes sure that the hole is patched for their security. It could put a kink in a runner's day. Or even an exploit for some of the ares predators, or alphas. All of a sudden they will not fire on ares soil.

Or just as much fun, initiate a firmware upgrade for the runner that has his/her pan on, even in passive mode.... can you say oops.

Accepted.. however I'm theorising on the possible, regardless of difficulty. The encryption could have been cracked by a sensor under the floor that's in range of the PAN .. and then an emitter sends out bursts of commands to do.. whatever. Or given enough time, an emitter could send out a disable command trying encryption keys at random. How fast could an emitter designed for this purpose do it? A brute force attack, I know, but how long would it take 1 emitter to be successful? How long for 10 emitters? 50? 100? 1000?

For an initial outlay for the hardware, which might be expensive, you save on man-power, which must be cost effective in the long run? Damn.. why am I breaking off into economics..

I know I'd put a back door into any device I made

Rule of thumb, don't use wireless hardware from company X when doing a run against company X.

I'm guessing you mean wireless cybered character? Either way, I would say no. There's enough wireless gear and cyberware that the repeater would be inundated with wireless signals from the lights, fire alram pulls, hell, the walls could have wireless information beeming location of studs, pipes and wires for renovation or demolition purposes. Thus, the repeaters would pick up the signal but I don't feel they'd be able to determine authorized from unauthorized.

Yes, but to do that they'd have to isolate the signal of the cyberware from all of the aforementioned devices. Plus, I'd argue that cyberware has only an admin access level, thus adding 6 to the threshold of the test. If the team is in motion, I'd also rule that the hacker would need to restart the test if the target left the range of one commlink and enter the range of another.

Similar to trying to hack a vehicle from a street corner. Chances are the vehicles are going to move out of your range too quickly for one to hack. But, if you're hacking from a traffic light, you've strategically placed yourself to succeed. Extending this analogy back to the example at hand, if the security system used commlinks in say elevators or other areas of a building where a person must remain for a certain amount of time, then there might be a chance to hack some cyberware.

No. They'd risk jamming their own signals at the same time. Even directional jamming by a corp would probaby be kept to a minimum. You might ask why a corp cares about their wireless signals, but if that handy fire elemental lights a lab on fire but they've jammed the wireless signal from the fire-alarms, then they could lose a lot of work to the fire. Or, for a less magical concept, if their smartlinked security forces are transmitting gun camera pictures of the runners back to the security center, area jamming and -- potentially -- directional jamming would mean this may not work.

No, but they could watermark it so that they could find the runner again later. As for possessing, I don't remember sprites havingthat sort of capability.

I'd say the commlink can use the jackpoints, but the datajack is still available by SR4 and required to run full VR in the matrix. This, however, would create quite a stir, especially if the hacker's stealth program rating isn't too high, as the corp would now be able to detect an assault on their grid. They've done away with the security sheaf as it was in SR3 and left things to be more free, but there's still no reason why the intrusion would be noticed and IC and hackers dispatched to deal with the problem.

Since we're making so many comparisons to real life lets compare it to current real life. Hey guy has two cellphones, ones turned to silent mode, his personal cellphone, ones on ring, his work phone. I don't see why this might not happen in 2070. Corps certainly don't like you abusing company assets. Not to mention you may not like some of the features of your work commlink. You think Richard Villers uses only one commlink? Remember hidden mode is frowned upon but for the most part it is not illegal. Granted he may not be allowed to enter the top secret area of the company but just walking around his office in hidden mode he probably wouldn't be bothered by security.

Secondly lets use Nyxll's comparison of rl wireless to shadowrun's because we all know how good that comparison is. If a wireless signal comes into one of our current networks, the network does not call security. That would be insane considering the number of wireless signals that move around through our society every day, from bluetooth, to phones, to wireless enabled pda's and laptops.

Also lets look at shadowrun. Signal 3, 400m. You can get that on a commlink. So you're telling me if i walk within 400m of the edge of their network, they're going to send a sec team after me and take me out? Now we're livinv in reality. Oh oh lets go one step better. Lets increase our signal rating on our comlink to 6 (which is quite legal) lets see how far away we can get now. 10km. So if I were to walk within 10km of this places security network in hidden mode security at the very least would be alerted to my presance on ...well somewhere. And I'll note, the searching for wireless nodes, does not tell you their physical location. It tells you theres a wireless node there.


I won't even go and mention Technomancers and all this.

If the arrow's signal strength can push its information out to your commlink, then it can send to you and you'd see it, you just could send back to it and make it go away. Makes for an interesting spam zone when the spam is coming at you from a blimp or some other distant transmitter. Signal 3 and lower may not be able to stop the spam right away

I think you're hitting on hidden or passive mode for a commlink. In both of those modes access from the rest of the world into your PAN is more controlled than in active mode.

So what?
Shades and Camera can be wired/skinlinked to commlink.
Commlink runs Mapsoft.

Overlay of Map complete without any wireless interaction.

Your cell phone broadcasts your social security number, drivers licence, etc on demand?
A Commlink is much more than a cell phone, and people using more than one of them are not only not normal, but outright unusual, not to say suspicious if one of them is Hidden.

If you would manage to penetrate their wireless-shielding (paint, walls, etc), quite sure they would.

After a Track, it is knows to 50m.

Becase we all know we're going to be taping our comlinks to our bodies.

Secondly, yes mapsoft is realy going to have the internal maps of a facility Yes you can get around the city without being wireless that way, but i highly doubt a corp is going to put floormaps of their building out there for all the public to see

But I don't want 'more controlled access' as in real terms that means I am screwed if there's someone out there good enough. Do the rules specifically provide a state in which my commlink can receive signals, but can not send any signal back at all, regardless of how hard someone is trying to hack in?

I accept that a commlink could be hacked and sent some damaging instructions without ever sending any outward replies, but am willing to accept that as so difficult it's worth the risk.

That is actually quite usual, given the way Commlinks are used... well, maybe not the 'tape' part, as clothes are designed to incorporate comlinks.

In the runs I have seen, it was SOP to buy/steal the maps of relevant places in advance.

Well first, clothes are designed to incorperate them yes, but considering your average Jo in 2070 isn't going to be worried about being hacked by a security hacker, i doubt that means up against your skin. It'll mean in easy reach, high on the torso so you can jack into it easier. Most people are going to go the completely wireless route with imagelinked sunglasses, cybereyes, or contact lenses.

And for the second part I don't believe I'm familiar with the abrivation SOP?

However thats not how skinlink works. The name itself implies its need for skin contact.

Ah Standard Operating Procedure. And ok I'll give you that.