Well of course, agents = IC (when on defensive roles). Whats the problem?

Like I said - as soon as an intruder reaches Security clearence, he can simply tell your completly automated system to focus on things other than him, scan only once every hour, etc.

hmm, how smart are agents?

how big of a mind trick can you trow at them and expect them to figure it out?

In the case where you load the agent and the software you want on your comlink and instruct the agent to do this, that and this, while watching what it is doing.

Works exactly like skillwires. Cant use edge and specialisation, but does exactly what you want.

There's a difference between driving a car with skillwires and getting a cab...

Not rules wise, and thats what effectively counts.

That's about as funny as how firearms can replace any other skill.

???

Is that a joke on 'if you cant do something, shoot it'?

Munchkins Guide To Powergaming

Need to pick a lock? Shoot it with your gun!

Need to talk your way past a guard? Wave your gun at them!

etc etc

It doesnt matter. The SC is directing the agent roll by roll. The fluff description may be different but the result is the same.

I see no "consequnces". If you know some, name them (and I really wonder why you did not do this in your last posting. Do you want to be misunderstood, or what is your intention?)

Agents are just full of If=X - Then=Y.
"If = under attack, Then = Perform 'attack back'; Perform 'print to system'"
"If = Attack Back, Then = Perform 'Target'; Perform 'Attack Target'"
Ect...

The ammount of If/Then the agent has is dependant on what rank it is, with a Rank 6 having the most situations available to it.

I'm the new guy around here, but I'll weigh in.

Now, I'm not the computer geek some of you guys are, and I haven't (sadly) had much time to shake the book and see what falls out like you guys do, but I'll address at least two arguments that have come up repeatedly here as I see them... you know, from the outside and without falling into one of the two camps.

Technomancers are 'broken' because they cost too much to play.

Bullshit. Sorry, bull... fucking... shit. I'm not gonna pull your leg and say they are better, worse or what not, but they are hardly broken. Sure, he's not going to be running around with straight sixes in his hacking stats, thus no 6/6/6/6 commlink equivlent, then again a bunch of hackers are probably gonna think to themselves that they can wait for that six in logic... that last dice in teh pool just ain't worth it to start, ya know? Maybe, maybe not. On the other hand, I don't see a 6/6/6/6 commlink in the book either, meaning your brand new old school hacker is gonna have to wait until the game starts to get one too. What you ARE going to see is a more dedicated TM over a more jack of all trades hacker. And unlike the hacker, the TM can come up with CF's he needs on the fly. At a guess, you'll also see that when the Karma starts rolling in the TM starts to outstrip the hacker, since resonance isn't capped.

Credsticks and coffee machines as uber commlinks: Here I think it's a case of reading WAAAAAYYYYYY too much into the fluff. I'm sorta new at this debate, but: If, as a GM, I had a player tell me his credstick was a 6/6/6/6 commlink, instead of just an incredibly well protected dedicated purpose device, I'd laugh at him. Flat out. I wouldn't even bother with the ratings for the other stuff, the Device rating represnts how hard it is to hack, nothing more, nothing less. Comes from not trying to read into things.

Here's how I see it. Sure, you credstick MIGHT have 6/6/6/6, but it's designed to do one thing and one thing only. It's not designed to work as an interface (as compared to a node...) in the wireless world. Every rating it has reflects its singular purpose (protecting your money/ID and transmitting it when authorized). So, if you want to turn your credstick into a commlink, in addition to potentially wrecking your bank account balance due to failsafes behind the encryption, you'll spend an extended check and the money tryign to go back and install all the things that make a commlink a fucking commlink and not a credstick. You know, Sim rig (last I checked your credstick lacked that...), additional memory for your actual copies of software, an OS designed to support hacking, etc.

Same thing with the coffee machine. Sure, your commlink may steal memory and processing power from the coffee maker to run shit... but the Commlink is the one actually doing the running, not the damn bean brewer.


As to wether or not the rules are actually broken or not, well... I've got to do some research on the 'Agent Smith Problem' and other things first. I still suspect you guys are trying too hard. I've got more issues with the damn layout of the book than munchkins running rampant.

Thanks, It only took me about a week to get approval....

cetiah:

once gain, my reasoning goes like this:

Agents that are told exactly what to do (roll this, then roll that) have exactly the same effective game mechanics like skillwires, as they replace your skill, and prevent you from using edge, but still you have complete freedom of choice what to do.

BUT you can have them to rating 6, although you can have only skillwires to 4.

THAT is my point. Nothing else.

That agents are not skillwires at all and have completely different fluff descriptions does not change that they have exactly the same game mechanics when looked at dice numbers.

Memory and stuff is fluff. Dice numbers dont care about fluff.

I am not talking about the oder by command software version. I am talking about the order by "order" version.

And again, please give an example.

Actually, I seem to recall that the Command program isn't required to issue orders. It is only used for remote control.

I'm sorry I can't give you the precise references right now, but I remember spending quite some time to read everything related to this and getting to that conclusion.

Serbitar:

I'm at work now but I'll get to the number crunching on the characters as soon as I get a chance.


As for the rest, I wasn't really talking house rules, I'm talking an off the freaking cuff answer that popped into my head. If you take a hundred shadowrun GM's, if one guy actually allows someone to use a credstick as a commlink, that guy is an exceptional moron, and I wouldn't want to play with him anyway.

Now, to clear up confusion, I didn't say the credstick wasn't a node. I accept it is a node. I said it lacked proper interfaces to be a commlink. Huge difference. It lacks the OS to run most applications directly. Its a dedicated server. Sure, you can steal it's ram (or whatever) to store data on, but thats about it. It's not a 'house rule' its common sense.


Let me put it too you this way. I have an MP3 player. It's essentially a solid state external drive, yeah? Now, I can go buy a solid state external hard drive, set it up with an OS and run it as a computer... if I hook it up to a computer first. It's a bit harder with the MP3 player. In fact, it's impossible to use the MP3 player as a computer without ripping the bastared apart and doing all sorts of crazy shit to it... so much that it would be easier to use a damn computer in the first place. Yes, it has an OS on it, one designed solely to facilitate playing music. Yes, it has memory... no problems there, yes it even has an interface... again, one solely dedicated to playing music. It's an idiot savant of a computer, totally useless outside of its purpose. Same thing with credsticks. Common sense, that's all it takes.

Same thing with devices. Sure... they are wireless, sure they are nodes. Sure, you can interact with them, store data on them, even run software on their ram (or whatever) as a periphrial in your net... but you still need the central processor with the OS and the interface (simnet/keyboard/datajack) to actually DO anything.

Now, to me that means the simple fix to all of these debates about using credsticks and coffeemakers as commlinks is to insert one single line that says: "Must have a commlink to actually interact with the wired world."

If only to replace the use of 'common sense' as a 'house rule'. For all I know, they DID say that somewhere and every one of us missed it because the damn chapter is organized like scrambled eggs.