Edited:

Since we are editing here, anyways... the easiest solution that will keep everyone together is for Siren to simply reject the offer, I guess.

Especially, if there is some hint about those shadows (like Papa always having had those black eyes, which I at least wasn't aware of).

Bye
Thanee

So backing up a little bit here. While I'm glad you two seem to be able to resolve this for yourselves and that would be grand if this was a game of two, it's not. The initial agreement was to benefit the entire game and the rest of the players as well. People were having trouble posting on a regular basis and keeping the game moving forward so instead of putting it on ice we went with the compromise that GM would bump us along and we would roll from there.

What happened was players trying to cram a bunch of things in before the bump. If you can find the time to post all the injected material after the bump my suggestion would be to do so before since you know it's coming. It was no surprise that it moved on Monday since that was the agreement. It feels like you want it all and damn the rest of us here honoring the arrangement as it stands.

If you want that depth and richness I think that's great but you need to then make the time to put it in there in a way that does disrupt the game for the other players and respects the agreement that was made. If the agreement doesn't work for you then discuss that and find one that is workable. Which is it going to be?

Monday is today, the "pre-flight" situation was resolved before today already (but does mean that Siren isn't with the rest of the team).

However, McQ moved everyone to our destination on thursday, in the middle of a conversation that took place before we even started.

As I said, the simplest thing is to move Papa's offer to after the landing, and to have Siren reject it then, so we can move on.

Bye
Thanee

Thanee--I posted the move to Crater Lake on May 21. Redjack posted on May 28th, and included several days of retroactive action in his IC post. That caused some of the players to be talking in one day and other events happening in the past, and caused the fork in events in IC time. I didn't move everyone in the middle of a conversation. The conversation all happened a week or more after I moved the team in Real World time.

Oh... you are right there, of course. My bad.

That still leaves the "what now?" to be answered, though.

I'm totally in favor of moving on, I just don't see Siren to simply move on if that scene happens (whether in L.A. or somewhere in the jungle).
Her priorities will then immediately shift to: A) Get rid of that thing; B) see A).

Bye
Thanee

Thanee--For IC, I'd say to go with my previous plan that Redjack is doing.



Editing to decline the rock the first would require editing/deleting all of the posts responding to the change, Siren's questions to the rock etc. If you were going to reject it, I think that would have happened the first go around. At this point, Siren can still give up the stone without lasting effects, so she can pass it off to someone else, no harm/no foul.

On the OOC side, to respond to Buddha's post, I think a commitment from the team to respect each other as players and respect the time and energy individuals are putting into the thread is appropriate. That means to post each week, before the bump occurs. If folks don't have time to post before the bump, don't retcon events. The past is done, look to the future. As I have said before, if people do not have the time to write a full post, but really want to have a chance to do certain things, then all you need to do is post a list in the OOC thread and I will include it in the bump.

I can simply ignore it (from a metagaming point of view) and move on with the team, if you prefer that... but from a character perspective, she would only pursuit that goal (getting rid of it) now and certainly not go to some place where spirits go crazy and whatnot in that state.



I only reacted to the IC posts in order (and never got to the friday part, because of it).

Bye
Thanee

Thanee--I'm not saying to ignore it from an IC perspective. Papa gave Siren the stone on Friday at Crater Lake (according to his edited post). What I'm saying is to edit the Thursday date stamps out of your posts. Now everyone is at Friday... From there you can talk IC to offer it to the twins, start walking, sit and wait for the team etc. That way, everyone is in the same timeline and we aren't going to be split across multiple days and cities. Siren can still focus on getting rid of it ASAP.

On the OOC part, it feels like you are ignoring the fact that it was Friday for a full week before Redjack went back and you responded. That whole exchange ignored the rest of the team which had moved on, which I believe is part of Buddha's frustration.

Already done.



Ok.



Yeah, fair enough. Sorry about that!

Bye
Thanee

Let's not make this into more than it was. I posted up to the bump and inadvertently posted in something I assumed to be innocuous and mundane that in the end wasn't.

This was a simple action that we as a team were not prepared for like a twist other story so to speak. The twins can let Harvey guide them and advise them no harm no foul, if need be let the dumb troll(me) take it I am sure they will have lefty of space in my head to fill lol. Yes the times were a little funky but with the ic bump all that is need is for the twins to receive Harvey than we can jog on.

Assensing (team working with Gen)
4d6.hits(5)=0

Edge
4d6.hits(5)=1

Assensing (+1 die on Siren)
13d6.hits(5)=6

Assensing (team working with Gen)
4d6.hits(5)=2

Assensing (+2 dice on Papa)
14d6.hits(5)=8

Fine if we're moving on - so is Papa lying on purpose or have you forgotten things about the oracle? I'm been a player from the beginning and that entity was not sent to help us on the quests. We encountered it in the Troll Market and struck a bargain with it and that's how it came into our possession. It was never put forth as harmless or safe - in fact everyone was warned several times over about striking deals in the market and that could carry a high price tag.

Masking -> 8 hits

Siren is mundane, healthy (I suppose), disappointed and angry. Essence 6.



I'm reasonably sure, Redjack forgot about that?

Bye
Thanee

I will probably have to introduce a new character, in order to continue here, now, anyways.

What Siren will be doing now will take quite some time for sure... she will be out of the way for weeks, if not months, of ingame time.

Besides, her source of motivation to help the team is pretty much down the river at this point.

Bye
Thanee

Even worse: I thought that whole sequence was part of the quest and not part of the Troll Market.

Listen, I passed that stupid thing on misunderstanding what it was, not to screw your character. It is simply a case of a player ignorance.

I gotta ask: Buddha72 & BshopMcQ live in physical proximity or something? For the better part of this game, I always felt like you guys understood things about the magic/mythology in this game that I was constantly playing catch up on.

I realize that.

Bye
Thanee

Redjack--Yes, Buddha and I have known each other for over a decade. Until January, I was several states away for the duration of this game. As far as the magic/mythology of this game, there are multiple factors. Buddha's previous characters have had the relevant knowledge skills and background. There's also the fact that I designed aspects of the game with each of the original characters in mind--D'zan had a magical tradition around the Seelie and Unseelie courts, and a goal of joining the courts and shuffling off the mortal coil. Argent had a lot of history surrounding UCLA.

The other big factor is that Buddha will IM or PM me and check--based on his character's knowledge does X sound reasonable? Is he remembering Y correctly? This thread has drawn from numerous sources in SR's magical background, but also from various mythologies when team members traveled to the metaplanes. There's been real and fake Aztec mythology, Lovecraftian horrors, locations from Hellboy, and a conglomeration of Irish and European mythos surrounding the Huntsman and Sidhe.

There are also purely mundane factors that were either overlooked, forgotten, or not explored yet.

(Also, if you recall, when the group first formed it was said that it was basically our tabletop group -- Fenris, Buddha, JxJxA, myself, and Mr.Aries. The game launched six months after I moved to Seattle.)

I knew you all were long term friends, the rest makes sense, even if I didn't know or remember it all. I just always feel disconnected as a player with the mythology part. Understanding that is part of the mystic especially playing the hacker, I've been good with that.

I guess I'd ask the following: What's done is done. The player misunderstood so the character misunderstood. Nothing to be done to undo it but move forward. Given Siren's rejection, can Papa simply take it back?

I really doubt that will work.

Bye
Thanee

Buddha (Gen) -- Papa is a healthy, mundane troll with an Essence of 3.15. He is currently angry and on edge, due to the current situation. He has bioware throughout his body, and cyberware predominantly in his head. There is an astral signature present, which appears similar to a Spirit Pact.

Redjack -- Papa is not aware of a way to take it back. OOC, at this point Siren needs to give it to someone else. As long as she doesn't ask it for information, she can get rid of it. To clarify for Papa--the pact was that he would carry it as long as he knew the secrets. He can pass it on to others, but can't get rid of it. The reason he and Argent were able to swap it was that the swap happened before the group asked questions.

It seems as though he's passed it on, but there are elements that did not pass on. Can you clarify the permanent effects for having once carried it, both game effecting and aesthetic?

The aesthetic changes of the eyes and skin differences are permanent as long as you carry it. Once secrets are known, the presence will remain. That means bearing the Astral signature, able to ask questions, and it continues to travel with you wherever your mind travels.

Once the secrets are no longer known, the presence can be transferred to someone else and all the signs will go away without lingering effects.

So since siden has yet to ask anything of the stone all that 8s needed is for her to willingly pass it to another and the effect will dissapear?

I think the part I find challenging is that the information is all there for anyone to read. Just flip back through the thread if you can't remember something or need to clarify a detail. If you don't want to scroll through the posts every time then copy and paste the relevant details to a document for easier access. There really is no reason to be that disconnected from the thread other than a lack of a little effort on the player's part.

Putting that aside, it seems like there is investment to play a game but difficulty connecting to this storyline perhaps because it is very non-traditional in the SR genre with entities, metaplanar beasties and relics. Should we consider scrapping this particular story and starting fresh with a new game and potentially new characters? This is assuming BishopMcQ is open to the idea as well.

Thoughts?

Saytr--correct.

I misunderstood from the beginning. In any event, the point is mute. As Bishop can attest, there are notes on my character sheet from the missions; it appears they needed to be more complete and more time spent contemplating this one thing.

At this point, perhaps that is a good idea. If Thanee believes that an irrevocable trust was breached. Just to give some additional feed back: Working under my misunderstanding, Papa sought to bestow the link to his most trusted companion. Siren, having a back history is that character. While Harvey has some draw backs, he perceived it as benefits above the negatives. He knows nothing of spirit links and has always been played naive of things magical, growing in knowledge. Given the choices of D'zan and others when leaving, he still has no appreciation of the true power of the powers they now serve and really sees them as just a magical equivalent to corporations and governments.

Everyday, I work with people who simply cannot grasp computers the way that I do and yet they trust in my judgement for design, triage and issue mitigation. I tried to imagine Papa being that guy, but now having a realm that is simply completely foreign to him and all the rules he thought he understood being rewritten (ergo: the rule book info being stuff he was aware of and all Bishop's Mythology taking that to a completely different level.). So he acts naively at times, stays with the quest when everyone leaves because they are mysteries he doesn't understand and goes with the flow like he imagines non-technical people with him.

If we have hit an impasse where the team seems critically broken and I've role-played us into a corner, then let's hit the reset button and begin again with a completely new game. If Siren can begin to understand Papa's side and nativity and we can role-play our way forward, then let's do that.

Yes and no.

The other problem is, that the stone addressed Siren with her real name. Which I only see two ways for it to have learned... from Papa (which seems, at least, unlikely), or from Siren herself (i.e. it simply knows everything the bearer knows, which is what I believe happened). That further complicates the issue quite a bit.

Bye
Thanee

Siren does not think Papa did anything of that intentionally. Unfortunately, that does not help at all.

Bye
Thanee

As for the game moving on... as I said, I could (and would) simply introduce a new character, because I don't see Siren coming back any time soon. I have no problem with that (Siren, probably, was a bit too nice for this campaign, anyways).

As for starting from scratch... I don't think it is absolutely necessary. There is one point, however, that makes it look like a good idea... there really is no character left in the group, that is truly attached to the storyline (everyone is just tacked on), which might be problematic.

Bye
Thanee

Papa is original

Oh? I thought he also joined in later...

Bye
Thanee

About now, I think the Poor Self-Control: P2.0 should have paid a lot more build points...

Don't forget you were also paid the reagent vials, and a van with toys...Papa's getting some worldly goods out of this. Brock has a deal for cash and to keep what he kills. The twins are trading service here for information. Really, it's just Siren who doesn't have an arrangement. There was talk about negotiating one, but then it was sidelined and Siren said she was along for the ride with artifacts.

Understood. There was a payment of a van and other items after the first item. Not trying to say Papa has not profited, only that he never negotiated a deal.

PS: I didn't know that Brock is a Necromonger...

Well looks like he answered.....

To check, is Papa's response Redjack translating a different message, or Papa? The reply doesn't seem to match the intent of what I wrote.

Also, returning to the above idea, since I didn't address it -- if people would enjoy a more traditional game, I am fine setting this one down and running a different one. Especially if there is a lot of confusion on the part of players about the events that are happening in this game, a fresh beginning might be in order. Same players, different characters may make it easier--with everyone starting on an even footing plot-wise.

Must be Redjack's gaffe this time.. Here is the logic I used:

"(1) Transferring to a new host, is a simple act of focused will. The original barter was to carry it (2) as long as the knowledge existed in the mortal realm. "
Perhaps this deserves further exploration...

The original bargain was to carry it as long as the secret was known. If you share the secret with someone else, both must forget it before the bargain is complete. Example: You can't ask a bunch of questions, share the answers and dose yourself with Laes to forget and claim the bargain is complete. Likewise if you broadcast information across a PITO feed, it will stay until all copies of the feed are erased and everyone who watched it forgets.

Papa has asked several questions for knowledge, shared those secrets, and exposed the Knowing to huge archives of information as payment. The references to the "electronic sea" that it mentioned when asking for new hosts before answering your last set of questions about the area.

The Huntsman isn't omniscient--he just knows what D'zan saw and heard in the trade.

@Bishop: Thanks for the additional details. Here is where I am. I am ok continuing or resetting.

@Thanee if you feel you are unable to continue with Siren, let's reset. If you have a path to move forward, lets do that.

@All: Thoughts?

I agree - resetting is the better idea if this is a deal breaker for Siren though I honestly think we should just reset to something less esoteric in theme and content so it will be less confusing to follow. In addition, with a reset we can build a team that has the skill set to tackle the problems we face. This team has had several swap in and outs that has made it a little patchwork.

Well, it just makes no sense for Siren to continue here, as there are much more important things to do (for her). The Huntsman's recent words just reinforced that.

She also wouldn't want to pass this thing to someone else present here (much less after the Huntsman's words).

As I said above, since she will - at the very least - be away for quite some time, dealing with this problem, I am perfectly fine with introducing a new character here (of course, I could do the same for a new campaign as well, but that is not necessary for me).

Bye
Thanee

I'll agree with Buddha. As awesome as the whole cool spooky metaplane thing is, I agree that the original group was well suited to handling it, and the new group not as much.

I'm voting for resetting, I think it's gotten too tangled to salvage at this point, without having to grind it down to the nubs first.

Ok. There are five of us. I'm kinda tired of playing the hacker, so I'll pass that role along. Who wants what?

Thanee--Out of curiosity, what part of the Huntsman's message makes you want to give it to someone else rather than a member of the group?

Team--All right, it sounds like the reset is the plan of the day.

Would you like to keep organizing here, or have me open a new thread?

"Service to me will make you an unfit host"


As for restarting... as that seems to be the plan... I would open a new thread, I think.

Bye
Thanee

Same here i guess a new thread would be best, is the reset the best plan, i mean hell brock will take the dam thing he has plenty of questions that he would love answered and from the things he has seen so far he can share those experiences if need be, he dowsnt have knowledge such as papa or siren about thing magical but once taken from siren she would be back to norm correct?

Agreed: New thread.

New Thread: http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?showtopic=38931