Say you are ordered to kidnap a dragon and inhabit it with one of your ally spirits.
How would you go about doing it?
Full Version: How would you inhabit a Dragon?
QUOTE (pattyhulez @ Sep 1 2010, 01:55 AM) 
Say you are ordered to kidnap a dragon and inhabit it with one of your ally spirits.
How would you go about doing it?
How would you go about doing it?
Aww, I missed you!
edit: It doesn't seem like there are any major rules complications for dragons, specifically. At least for the inhabitation itself. You'll have to drug them, most likely, unless you want them in the astral, Powerbolting you to death; something like laes should work, in massive doses. Then the vessel prep will have a negative modifier equal to the dragon's magic rating, so it won't be easy, by any stretch of the imagination.
As far as kidnapping one goes? Hrm. Find someone who really pissed this dragon off, kidnap them, shove a big pile of autoinjectors full of laes into the guy, then deliver him for dinner? Not a very high chance of success, but for this operation, no plan is going to have one^^
Step 1: Break into a dragon's lair.
Step 2: Die horribly.
Step 2: Die horribly.
Hey, regular dragons aren't so tough. If its a -great- dragon, you're screwed. Nongreats have no twist fate...
... and are actaully pretty weak against stun damage.
... and are actaully pretty weak against stun damage.
If the GM uses the succestion of dimishing dicepool by one for every test after the first, it is pretty much impossible to prepare a dragon as a living vessel.
You need 8 successes and your dicepool is slowered by 9 on avarage right of the bat.
You need 8 successes and your dicepool is slowered by 9 on avarage right of the bat.
QUOTE (pattyhulez @ Sep 1 2010, 12:55 AM)
Say you are ordered to kidnap a dragon .....
How would you go about doing it?
How would you go about doing it?
Good Luck even with the First Part !
Dragons(and I'm not talking great Dragons, I mean all Dragons) are supposed to be super genius and to have an extended Web of Informants.
Even just preparing the plan unnoticed is a task by itself, then executing the kidnapping
the Dragon ....they're usually accompanied by spirit and/or mundane Bodyguards,to have Wards and magical protection....
And after You've kidnapped him preventing him from sending for Help...
Than inhabing the Dragon
Than getting away with it, without any repercussions from the Dragon Community.....
I'm not saying that its impossible but just a monumental task
Hough!
Medicineman
Still... the resulting entity would be very powerful.
Vestrivan....
But he does it willingfully...
But he does it willingfully...
I'd make a one-twoedge char. Save up a shite load of karma and abuse the burn of a critical sucess rule. I'd use in on my planning roll my doing the plan rolls then making it a vessel roll you name it. Sure the rule say raising attribute may cost time but they don't say it has to. 5 karma per roll isn't to high to pay for it plus some rolls won't need the necessary +4 hits any how.
QUOTE (pattyhulez @ Sep 1 2010, 12:55 AM)
Say you are ordered to kidnap a dragon and inhabit it with one of your ally spirits.
How would you go about doing it?
How would you go about doing it?
Very carefully.
QUOTE (Draco18s @ Sep 1 2010, 03:08 PM)
Very carefully.
I carefully find out who the Johnson is, and what blackmail he holds over me. I keep recordings of all my meets with him.
I buy a rating 6 SiN, I build a whole new persona, use a specially modded commlink with all the defenses my hacker can put together.
I contact the Dragon I was hired to kidnap and inquire on his reward structure for information about plots against him. I also inquire how much he would pay to have this threat removed.
I destroy the sin and the commlink I used to contact said Dragon. I leave a dead drop system for the Dragon to dump information into. I use an Agent purchased by a brand new Rating 6 SiN, on a brand new commlink, using AR. If the Dragon doesn't get back to me in 24 hours. I move out of the country. (Preferably the continent)
QUOTE (pattyhulez @ Sep 1 2010, 05:55 AM)
Say you are ordered to kidnap a dragon and inhabit it with one of your ally spirits.
How would you go about doing it?
How would you go about doing it?
I'd put a bullet in the brainpan of the schlub 'ordering' me to do anything and sell his corpse to the organleggers.
The careful investment of
0.34 will net me greater returns then this flight of fancy.How many times has it been said that ally spirits don't have that power? I think I've lost count.
QUOTE (Doc Chase @ Sep 1 2010, 03:25 PM)
I'd put a bullet in the brainpan of the schlub 'ordering' me to do anything and sell his corpse to the organleggers.
The careful investment of0.34 will net me greater returns then this flight of fancy.
How many times has it been said that ally spirits don't have that power? I think I've lost count.
The careful investment of
0.34 will net me greater returns then this flight of fancy.How many times has it been said that ally spirits don't have that power? I think I've lost count.
Your plan might be even safer than mine
I'll go with yours.
I like how you say 'one of your ally spirits', because why *wouldn't* you have more than one? 
QUOTE (sabs @ Sep 1 2010, 05:15 PM)
If the Dragon doesn't get back to me in 24 hours. I move out of the country. (Preferably the continent)
I heard Mars is wonderful by this time of the year. No matter how badass dragons are, they can't follow you in space.
QUOTE (Doc Chase @ Sep 1 2010, 10:25 AM)
How many times has it been said that ally spirits don't have that power? I think I've lost count.
Ally spirits don't have what power? Inhabitation? I assure you they do. They start with Materialization or Possession, based on your tradition and can be designed with Inhabitation.
Edit: My signature seems appropriate to the task at hand...
QUOTE (Mikado @ Sep 1 2010, 03:53 PM)
Ally spirits don't have what power? Inhabitation? I assure you they do. They start with Materialization or Possession, based on your tradition and can be designed with Inhabitation.
Edit: My signature seems appropriate to the task at hand...
Edit: My signature seems appropriate to the task at hand...
Ah, right. I've been shutting off my mind to this 'posession tradition' bullshit.
QUOTE (Traul @ Sep 1 2010, 10:42 AM)
I heard Mars is wonderful by this time of the year. No matter how badass dragons are, they can't follow you in space.
A great could, possibly. It'd only need to initiate once and raise its magic once from the base stated stats.
QUOTE (Doc Chase @ Sep 1 2010, 11:00 AM)
Ah, right. I've been shutting off my mind to this 'posession tradition' bullshit.
I'll agree with you there... Posession traditions tend to be way over-powered. At least as far as I have seen. The player of the ONE that has been allowed in our game has been ordered not to raise his casting/summoning magic over a 3. He plays an mystic adept.
QUOTE (Mikado @ Sep 1 2010, 09:15 AM)
I'll agree with you there... Posession traditions tend to be way over-powered. At least as far as I have seen. The player of the ONE that has been allowed in our game has been ordered not to raise his casting/summoning magic over a 3. He plays an mystic adept.
So they have to stagnate their character?
Sounds like a ton of fun.
Better that than ruin the game for everyone, and he can advance as an adept. Not that advancement is necessary for fun, of course.
Not that advancement is necessary for fun, of course.
QUOTE (Mordinvan @ Sep 1 2010, 11:22 AM)
So they have to stagnate their character?
Sounds like a ton of fun.
Sounds like a ton of fun.
Who said he was stagnant? He can raise anything he wants... save for summoning skills and spell magic. Why does it seem like most everyone here is only interested in raw power for a character?
Just because being possessed by a force 6+ (adding 6+ to all physical attributes and 12 ItNW) is not unbalanced for the rest of the team... Right now he has trouble summoning and binding force 5's and the GM has to specifically throw in a mage on the opposition just to deal with it.
The real thing keeping him in check is not the GM but the player... He has done more to harm his character than the GM ever will.
QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Sep 1 2010, 11:29 AM)
Better that than ruin the game for everyone, and he can advance as an adept. Not that advancement is necessary for fun, of course.
Not that advancement is necessary for fun, of course.Agreed
Mmmeh, possession traditions are not terribly overpowered like they used to be. Especially without channeling.
Now on kidnapping a dragon: Nigh impossible.
Kidnapping an egg or a juvenile is a better option if mama/papa dragon is already out of the picture.
Another option would be to level the dragon with an Ares Lazer and inhabiting the corpse. Use the Preserve spell to stave off decay.
Now on kidnapping a dragon: Nigh impossible.
Kidnapping an egg or a juvenile is a better option if mama/papa dragon is already out of the picture.
Another option would be to level the dragon with an Ares Lazer and inhabiting the corpse. Use the Preserve spell to stave off decay.
QUOTE (Johnny B. Good @ Sep 1 2010, 06:38 PM)
Another option would be to level the dragon with an Ares Lazer and inhabiting the corpse. Use the Preserve spell to stave off decay.
He got better.
QUOTE (Johnny B. Good @ Sep 1 2010, 11:38 AM)
Mmmeh, possession traditions are not terribly overpowered like they used to be. Especially without channeling.
Now on kidnapping a dragon: Nigh impossible.
Kidnapping an egg or a juvenile is a better option if mama/papa dragon is already out of the picture.
Another option would be to level the dragon with an Ares Lazer and inhabiting the corpse. Use the Preserve spell to stave off decay.
Now on kidnapping a dragon: Nigh impossible.
Kidnapping an egg or a juvenile is a better option if mama/papa dragon is already out of the picture.
Another option would be to level the dragon with an Ares Lazer and inhabiting the corpse. Use the Preserve spell to stave off decay.
Or any spirit with regenerate, not sure if allies can get that power, but free spirits, and great form plant spirits can.
QUOTE (Doc Chase @ Sep 1 2010, 11:00 AM)
Ah, right. I've been shutting off my mind to this 'posession tradition' bullshit.
Possession had nothing to do with the original complaint of yours (Ally spirits don't have Inhabitation).
As you were told, Ally spirits can have Inhabitation OR Materialization OR Possession.
Please get off your high horse about magic being OP or spirits being OP or whatever beef you have with Magic in general. Yes we get it. ***YOU*** think magic and spirits are OP / stupid / gamebreaking / whatever.
Please stop rubbing our faces in your disdain for magic.
As for the OP...
Easiest way IMO: Wait until the Dragon uses Astral Projection (or give it reason to do so for a longer period of time). While he's out, put up some significantly strong magic defenses on the Astral (physical too btw). Then perform the ritual that will let your ally Inhabit the body. Magically actives that leave their bodies via Astral Projection are considered prepared vessels already.
You can see this because Shedim can steal a body of a mage who isn't home. They also state in the Ally section about magically actives being prepared vessels if they aren't home.
QUOTE (darthmord @ Sep 1 2010, 06:41 PM)
Possession had nothing to do with the original complaint of yours (Ally spirits don't have Inhabitation).
As you were told, Ally spirits can have Inhabitation OR Materialization OR Possession.
Please get off your high horse about magic being OP or spirits being OP or whatever beef you have with Magic in general. Yes we get it. ***YOU*** think magic and spirits are OP / stupid / gamebreaking / whatever.
Please stop rubbing our faces in your disdain for magic.
As you were told, Ally spirits can have Inhabitation OR Materialization OR Possession.
Please get off your high horse about magic being OP or spirits being OP or whatever beef you have with Magic in general. Yes we get it. ***YOU*** think magic and spirits are OP / stupid / gamebreaking / whatever.
Please stop rubbing our faces in your disdain for magic.
Edit: I've had a bit of time to reconsider what I said. So I'll amend.
Where the hell do you get off? You know nothing about me, nothing about my preferences for the game, and nothing about what the hell you are talking about. I don't have a problem with magic. I don't have a problem with ally spirits. I have a problem with you shooting your mouth off.
QUOTE
As for the OP...
Easiest way IMO: Wait until the Dragon uses Astral Projection (or give it reason to do so for a longer period of time). While he's out, put up some significantly strong magic defenses on the Astral (physical too btw). Then perform the ritual that will let your ally Inhabit the body. Magically actives that leave their bodies via Astral Projection are considered prepared vessels already.
You can see this because Shedim can steal a body of a mage who isn't home. They also state in the Ally section about magically actives being prepared vessels if they aren't home.
Easiest way IMO: Wait until the Dragon uses Astral Projection (or give it reason to do so for a longer period of time). While he's out, put up some significantly strong magic defenses on the Astral (physical too btw). Then perform the ritual that will let your ally Inhabit the body. Magically actives that leave their bodies via Astral Projection are considered prepared vessels already.
You can see this because Shedim can steal a body of a mage who isn't home. They also state in the Ally section about magically actives being prepared vessels if they aren't home.
You mean to tell me that a Great Dragon isn't going to have a ward that a Force 20 spirit couldn't break when he goes for an astral walk? That assumption is bordering on deluded.
Then the spirit comes home and beats the living tar out of your Ally Spirit
Just because you don't think Magic is OP doesn't give you the right to tell other people to shut up.
And if you don't think Magic is OP, it's because you're playing Magicians and not tech-characters.
Just because you don't think Magic is OP doesn't give you the right to tell other people to shut up.
And if you don't think Magic is OP, it's because you're playing Magicians
and not tech-characters.
Um… *where* does it say that 'out to lunch' Awakened living vessels are automagically 'prepared'?
What I see is that you have to complete an Enchanting + Magic (Vessel's Willpower, 1 day) test *with* a penalty of vessel's Essence or Magic (whichever is higher), and *then* Inhabitation takes 1 day per Force of the spirit after that, *and* it all has to happen in a Lodge of Force >= spirit's Force; if the vessel leaves that lodge, vessel and spirit die.
What I see is that you have to complete an Enchanting + Magic (Vessel's Willpower, 1 day) test *with* a penalty of vessel's Essence or Magic (whichever is higher), and *then* Inhabitation takes 1 day per Force of the spirit after that, *and* it all has to happen in a Lodge of Force >= spirit's Force; if the vessel leaves that lodge, vessel and spirit die.
I didn't see Doc say anywhere that he hated magic or thought it it was overpowered. Patty just has some more than dubious history with D&D-like munchkining and template stacking, attempting to bend the rules to create horribly overpowered and horribly unrealistic scenarios with "rigger mages." There were lots of mistaken terms and confusing inhabitation for possession, as well as some dubious rulings on multiple ally spirits and doing things the game doesn't seem to imply that you can do or is at least extremely vague on the subject (As it is implied that nobody should ever do such a thing, and any GM that allows that level of munchkining should receive an APDS sniper shot to the dome).
That being said, I understand Doc's frustration at this topic.
Also, what do you mean "He got better?"
And inhabiting a dragon's body while he's away would never work. It takes days, and the dragon wouldn't be able to project for more than a day or so. Also he'd break the living shit out of your ward on the way back in. Failing that, he'd hire nasty nasty people to kill you before the ritual finishes.
That being said, I understand Doc's frustration at this topic.
Also, what do you mean "He got better?"
And inhabiting a dragon's body while he's away would never work. It takes days, and the dragon wouldn't be able to project for more than a day or so. Also he'd break the living shit out of your ward on the way back in. Failing that, he'd hire nasty nasty people to kill you before the ritual finishes.
QUOTE (Mikado @ Sep 1 2010, 11:15 AM)
I'll agree with you there... Posession traditions tend to be way over-powered. At least as far as I have seen. The player of the ONE that has been allowed in our game has been ordered not to raise his casting/summoning magic over a 3. He plays an mystic adept.
You realize that there's only one magic attribute for Mystic Adepts right?
Even if they put 5 points worth towards adept powers they can still cast force 6 spells before taking physical drain (and as such can also (attempt to) summon force 6 spirits). They just get fewer dice. And as such, their number of hits isn't going to be much higher than their Magic dice pool anyway (eg. 3(6) magic for spells with 6 spellcasting gives you 9 dice. Average is 3 hits, therefore casting over a F3 spell isn't going to do you a whole lot, unless the effect is based on the force, and not the hits).
QUOTE (Johnny B. Good @ Sep 1 2010, 07:24 PM)
Also, what do you mean "He got better?"
The last Great Dragon I know that got nailed by an Ares laser was Alamais in Night's Pawn. Dowd made it fairly clear that Alamais died in that engagement after Church knocked his shield down (because he survived, har) but he was still around in...I want to say Ragnarock, I know it was one of the Tommy Talon novels.
Dunkie even left him the fruitcake with the note "Unlike you, I'm actually dead." Ever classy.
QUOTE (Draco18s @ Sep 1 2010, 09:27 PM)
You realize that there's only one magic attribute for Mystic Adepts right?
Even if they put 5 points worth towards adept powers they can still cast force 6 spells before taking physical drain (and as such can also (attempt to) summon force 6 spirits). They just get fewer dice. And as such, their number of hits isn't going to be much higher than their Magic dice pool anyway (eg. 3(6) magic for spells with 6 spellcasting gives you 9 dice. Average is 3 hits, therefore casting over a F3 spell isn't going to do you a whole lot, unless the effect is based on the force, and not the hits).
Even if they put 5 points worth towards adept powers they can still cast force 6 spells before taking physical drain (and as such can also (attempt to) summon force 6 spirits). They just get fewer dice. And as such, their number of hits isn't going to be much higher than their Magic dice pool anyway (eg. 3(6) magic for spells with 6 spellcasting gives you 9 dice. Average is 3 hits, therefore casting over a F3 spell isn't going to do you a whole lot, unless the effect is based on the force, and not the hits).
Counting the seconds until some quotes the FAQ for you
QUOTE (Doc Chase @ Sep 1 2010, 06:40 PM)
The last Great Dragon I know that got nailed by an Ares laser was Alamais in Night's Pawn. Dowd made it fairly clear that Alamais died in that engagement after Church knocked his shield down (because he survived, har) but he was still around in...I want to say Ragnarock, I know it was one of the Tommy Talon novels.
Dunkie even left him the fruitcake with the note "Unlike you, I'm actually dead." Ever classy.
Dunkie even left him the fruitcake with the note "Unlike you, I'm actually dead." Ever classy.
Wooooah, I never said anything about trying to inhabit or kill a Great Dragon. That's a terrible idea. The most terrible idea.
In an unrelated note: I need to read up on my SR novels.
QUOTE (Mäx @ Sep 1 2010, 01:42 PM)
Counting the seconds until some quotes the FAQ for you
I still don't see how people rationalize the old FAQ taking precedence over newer material.
(I know, I know - dead horses and whatnot, but still...)
QUOTE (Johnny B. Good @ Sep 1 2010, 06:47 PM)
Wooooah, I never said anything about trying to inhabit or kill a Great Dragon. That's a terrible idea. The most terrible idea.
In an unrelated note: I need to read up on my SR novels.
In an unrelated note: I need to read up on my SR novels.
Based off this guy's threads? I'm making the assumption that's precisely who he's trying to posess/inhabit.
That and I saw 'Ares Laser' and thought about Church and the CAR-32 with microgrenades. And Stealth Bombers with lasers that apparently got retconned to orbital ones.
QUOTE (Draco18s @ Sep 1 2010, 01:27 PM)
You realize that there's only one magic attribute for Mystic Adepts right?
Even if they put 5 points worth towards adept powers they can still cast force 6 spells before taking physical drain (and as such can also (attempt to) summon force 6 spirits). They just get fewer dice. And as such, their number of hits isn't going to be much higher than their Magic dice pool anyway (eg. 3(6) magic for spells with 6 spellcasting gives you 9 dice. Average is 3 hits, therefore casting over a F3 spell isn't going to do you a whole lot, unless the effect is based on the force, and not the hits).
Even if they put 5 points worth towards adept powers they can still cast force 6 spells before taking physical drain (and as such can also (attempt to) summon force 6 spirits). They just get fewer dice. And as such, their number of hits isn't going to be much higher than their Magic dice pool anyway (eg. 3(6) magic for spells with 6 spellcasting gives you 9 dice. Average is 3 hits, therefore casting over a F3 spell isn't going to do you a whole lot, unless the effect is based on the force, and not the hits).
Old FAQ... new FAQ... whatever... someone already said it...
When I say what I am about to say understand that I played a mystic adept for years. My character pulled the team out of more crap than the rest of the team combined.
So, I do consider them to be overpowered. My group played with the FAQ rules regarding mystic adept magic even before the OLD FAQ came out because I agreed with my GM (hell, I was the one who brought it up) that it was overpowered compared to adepts or mages...
Now when I say overpowered... I speak only to our style of play... What you do in your game may make them vastly underpowered... to each his own.
QUOTE (Doc Chase @ Sep 1 2010, 01:43 PM)
Edit: I've had a bit of time to reconsider what I said. So I'll amend.
Where the hell do you get off? You know nothing about me, nothing about my preferences for the game, and nothing about what the hell you are talking about. I don't have a problem with magic. I don't have a problem with ally spirits. I have a problem with you shooting your mouth off.
Where the hell do you get off? You know nothing about me, nothing about my preferences for the game, and nothing about what the hell you are talking about. I don't have a problem with magic. I don't have a problem with ally spirits. I have a problem with you shooting your mouth off.
Then let me add a few things *you* specifically posted that indicate otherwise...
1. How many times has it been said that ally spirits don't have that power? I think I've lost count.
2. Ah, right. I've been shutting off my mind to this 'posession tradition' bullshit.
Now, in your defense, I did conflate a couple of things... namely any jackwad that goes spouting their own mouth off using the above statements is typically derisive, & condescending and holds tightly to the belief that SR magic is OP no matter what.
Perhaps you aren't one of those who holds tightly to that belief (thus I should not have conflated the two things). If you aren't, I apologize. But your post I've quoted... enough commentary on that from me.
QUOTE
You mean to tell me that a Great Dragon isn't going to have a ward that a Force 20 spirit couldn't break when he goes for an astral walk? That assumption is bordering on deluded.
Funny thing that... I re-read the OP's post and amazingly enough, there not a single f'ing mention of a god damned Great Dragon. So again, get off your high horse. If you plan on riding my ass on technical details, I suggest you get your facts straight first (especially after your diatribe above).
Or perhaps I should make the claim of a strawman? You throwing one in here (dragon vice great, when it was clarified the question was Re: dragon, not great) and then deriding me over it is a classic example of one regardless of your subsequent backpedalling later in the thread.
But in the end it doesn't matter. I'll take my warning (if the mods feel I warrant one). SR is for all types of players, mage haters and mage lover alike.
The OP asked a question and I gave it the best answer I could. Did I quote all my sources? No because I do not have my books by my side at the very moment I answered initially. Can I? Yes, if the OP were curious where my statements derive from, they could PM me and I'd answer with the page refs once I had a chance to find them to support my claim.
I don't care if the OP is thought to be a munchkin or not. A question was asked and answered. The questioner's reputation (supposed or real) does not factor into my decision to answer a question posed.
If there is genuine interest in me backing up my answer with cites (since there is some disbelief later in the thread), I will post cites that support my answer. All it takes is someone to say so.
PS: SM has a line or two that states a mage's body is considered a prepared vessel for purposes of inhabitation. I'm sure folks can figure it out from there given that Dragons are all magicians.
QUOTE (darthmord @ Sep 1 2010, 10:36 PM)
As you were told, Ally spirits can have Inhabitation OR Materialization OR Possession.
QUOTE (darthmord @ Sep 1 2010, 10:36 PM)
PS: SM has a line or two that states a mage's body is considered a prepared vessel for purposes of inhabitation. I'm sure folks can figure it out from there given that Dragons are all magicians.
Would you mind posting up a page reference for these two items when you get back to your books?
And in case you were wondering why pattyhulez is getting such a warm (kill it with fire) reception, here is a listing of all of his/her innocent questions and commentary:
Deformity Negative Quality
Multiple Ally Spirits
"Rigger Mage" Thread #1
"Rigger Mage" Thread #2
There was also a post about "making the most munchkiny, rules-legal character possible" somewhere as well.
That's where the heat is coming from, in case you were confused.
That said, capturing a dragon to have it inhabited by an ally spirit seems like the kind of thing that is the culmination of an entire, higher powered, campaign.
QUOTE (IcyCool @ Sep 1 2010, 05:54 PM)
Would you mind posting up a page reference for these two items when you get back to your books?
And in case you were wondering why pattyhulez is getting such a warm (kill it with fire) reception, here is a listing of all of his/her innocent questions and commentary:
Deformity Negative Quality
Multiple Ally Spirits
"Rigger Mage" Thread #1
"Rigger Mage" Thread #2
There was also a post about "making the most munchkiny, rules-legal character possible" somewhere as well.
That's where the heat is coming from, in case you were confused.
That said, capturing a dragon to have it inhabited by an ally spirit seems like the kind of thing that is the culmination of an entire, higher powered, campaign.
And in case you were wondering why pattyhulez is getting such a warm (kill it with fire) reception, here is a listing of all of his/her innocent questions and commentary:
Deformity Negative Quality
Multiple Ally Spirits
"Rigger Mage" Thread #1
"Rigger Mage" Thread #2
There was also a post about "making the most munchkiny, rules-legal character possible" somewhere as well.
That's where the heat is coming from, in case you were confused.
That said, capturing a dragon to have it inhabited by an ally spirit seems like the kind of thing that is the culmination of an entire, higher powered, campaign.
Ally spirit creation is SM page 103 - step 2. Choose Form(s)
The astral projecting mage's body is a vessel is SM page 95
QUOTE
Deepweed
Duration: (6 – Body) hours, minimum 1 hour
Effects: +1 Willpower, forces Awakened characters to astrally perceive
Also known as “bad karma,” this substance is derived by Caribbean
houngans from an Awakened form of kelp. Naturally laden with nicotine
and THC, deepweed is especially enticing to the Awakened and is
sometimes used to dose targets for possession. It is ingested or inhaled.
Deepweed forces any magically active user to astrally perceive,
even if the user is an adept without astral perception ability. Once its
effects have worn off, deepweed users may suffer a –1 to all dice pool
modifiers for an equal duration.
Deepweed users say that the drug is relaxing and opens the mind.
While it may be so, there are still dangers inherent in forced astral perception,
such as attracting unwanted attention. Roleplaying the effects
of deepweed may mean portraying someone who seems not completely
“present”—she isn’t.
Duration: (6 – Body) hours, minimum 1 hour
Effects: +1 Willpower, forces Awakened characters to astrally perceive
Also known as “bad karma,” this substance is derived by Caribbean
houngans from an Awakened form of kelp. Naturally laden with nicotine
and THC, deepweed is especially enticing to the Awakened and is
sometimes used to dose targets for possession. It is ingested or inhaled.
Deepweed forces any magically active user to astrally perceive,
even if the user is an adept without astral perception ability. Once its
effects have worn off, deepweed users may suffer a –1 to all dice pool
modifiers for an equal duration.
Deepweed users say that the drug is relaxing and opens the mind.
While it may be so, there are still dangers inherent in forced astral perception,
such as attracting unwanted attention. Roleplaying the effects
of deepweed may mean portraying someone who seems not completely
“present”—she isn’t.
This drug would actually not be that useful against a dragon. But they are much less deadly in astral. Having the equivalent of about 8 strength instead of 30-40. Still they would just powerbolt or stun bolt you to death as someone else said.
QUOTE
Possession
Type: P • Action: Complex • Range: Touch • Duration: Special
Some spirits lack the ability to materialize, so they must
possess vessels in order to interact with the physical plane.
Each possession attempt requires a Complex Action in
which the spirit touches the vessel’s aura and then accesses
the physical plane and attempts to possess a vessel so that it
may stay there. The spirit makes an Opposed Test pitting its
Force x 2 against the vessel’s Intuition + Willpower Test (for
living vessels). For inanimate vessels, the spirit makes a Force
x 2 (vessel’s Object Resistance) Test. Apply a +6 dice pool
bonus to the spirit if the vessel has been previously prepared
(see Vessel Preparation, p. 86). If the test fails, the spirit is
immediately forced back into the astral plane. If the test succeeds,
the possession takes hold: the vessel and the critter are
considered a single dual-natured entity for the duration. For
the detailed effects of Possession, refer to the Possession and
Vessels sidebar (p. 102).
A possessing spirit may be ejected from the vessel into
the astral plane with a normal Banishing Test (p. 180, SR4).
If the possession fails or the spirit is banished, the critter may
not attempt to possess that vessel again until the sun next rises
or sets. For more details, see Spirits and Vessels, p. 95.
Type: P • Action: Complex • Range: Touch • Duration: Special
Some spirits lack the ability to materialize, so they must
possess vessels in order to interact with the physical plane.
Each possession attempt requires a Complex Action in
which the spirit touches the vessel’s aura and then accesses
the physical plane and attempts to possess a vessel so that it
may stay there. The spirit makes an Opposed Test pitting its
Force x 2 against the vessel’s Intuition + Willpower Test (for
living vessels). For inanimate vessels, the spirit makes a Force
x 2 (vessel’s Object Resistance) Test. Apply a +6 dice pool
bonus to the spirit if the vessel has been previously prepared
(see Vessel Preparation, p. 86). If the test fails, the spirit is
immediately forced back into the astral plane. If the test succeeds,
the possession takes hold: the vessel and the critter are
considered a single dual-natured entity for the duration. For
the detailed effects of Possession, refer to the Possession and
Vessels sidebar (p. 102).
A possessing spirit may be ejected from the vessel into
the astral plane with a normal Banishing Test (p. 180, SR4).
If the possession fails or the spirit is banished, the critter may
not attempt to possess that vessel again until the sun next rises
or sets. For more details, see Spirits and Vessels, p. 95.
Just possessing a dragon an holding onto the body until the dragon's spirit dies would be most easily done buy using a powerful spirit, edge, and real world luck. They can't use twist of fate unless they are aware of the action and can see it. But if the dragons spirit is dead it would make sense that the dragon does not resist the inhabitation change and the result is almost always a true form spirit. True form would be pointless.
QUOTE
Inhabitation
Type: P • Action: Auto • Range: Self • Duration: Special
While most spirits live on the astral plane, able to affect
the physical world only transiently through materialization or
the possession of vessels, a spirit with Inhabitation exists on the
physical plane continuously. An inhabiting spirit permanently
merges with a prepared vessel, and cannot be separated with
Banishing or even by the spirit’s choice. An inhabiting spirit
is not disrupted until the vessel is killed from Physical damage
overflow (see p. 244, SR4). If the vessel inhabited by the spirit
was living, the spirit gains complete control over the body and
some access to its memories (see sidebar). During merging,
the vessel’s original spirit (if present) is consumed and for all
intents and purposes that character is essentially lost (though,
as always, gamemasters may decide otherwise if appropriate to
their stories).
In order to inhabit a vessel, a spirit must
have the assistance of a magician of an appropriate
tradition who must prepare the intended
vessel in advance (see Vessel Preparation,
p. 86) within a magical lodge with a Force
equal or higher than the spirit’s. Once the vessel
has been enchanted, the spirit may use the
Inhabitation power upon it immediately. The
process of inhabitation takes a number of days
equal to the spirit’s Force. At the end of that
period, the spirit makes an Opposed Test pitting
its Force x 2 against the host’s Willpower
+ Intuition. The spirit’s conjurer (if any) may
influence the result by adding her Binding
skill to either dice pool as desired. If the spirit
is attempting to inhabit an inanimate vessel,
the spirit rolls Force x 2 versus the vessel’s
Object Resistance threshold (p. 174, SR4).
To determine the results, compare the net
hits with the Inhabitation table and check the
Inhabitation Merges sidebar (p. 100). If the
vessel rolls a critical glitch, the result is always
a true form. If the spirit gets a critical glitch,
the merging is unsuccessful and the vessel is
immune to future inhabitation attempts by
that spirit.
The period of inhabitation is trying for
both vessel and spirit. If the vessel is removed
from the lodge before completion, both the
spirit and host will die (gamemaster’s discretion).
At the end of the inhabitation period,
the spirit takes full control over the host as determined
by who won the Opposed Test and
to what degree. For more details, see Spirits
and Vessels, p. 95.
Type: P • Action: Auto • Range: Self • Duration: Special
While most spirits live on the astral plane, able to affect
the physical world only transiently through materialization or
the possession of vessels, a spirit with Inhabitation exists on the
physical plane continuously. An inhabiting spirit permanently
merges with a prepared vessel, and cannot be separated with
Banishing or even by the spirit’s choice. An inhabiting spirit
is not disrupted until the vessel is killed from Physical damage
overflow (see p. 244, SR4). If the vessel inhabited by the spirit
was living, the spirit gains complete control over the body and
some access to its memories (see sidebar). During merging,
the vessel’s original spirit (if present) is consumed and for all
intents and purposes that character is essentially lost (though,
as always, gamemasters may decide otherwise if appropriate to
their stories).
In order to inhabit a vessel, a spirit must
have the assistance of a magician of an appropriate
tradition who must prepare the intended
vessel in advance (see Vessel Preparation,
p. 86) within a magical lodge with a Force
equal or higher than the spirit’s. Once the vessel
has been enchanted, the spirit may use the
Inhabitation power upon it immediately. The
process of inhabitation takes a number of days
equal to the spirit’s Force. At the end of that
period, the spirit makes an Opposed Test pitting
its Force x 2 against the host’s Willpower
+ Intuition. The spirit’s conjurer (if any) may
influence the result by adding her Binding
skill to either dice pool as desired. If the spirit
is attempting to inhabit an inanimate vessel,
the spirit rolls Force x 2 versus the vessel’s
Object Resistance threshold (p. 174, SR4).
To determine the results, compare the net
hits with the Inhabitation table and check the
Inhabitation Merges sidebar (p. 100). If the
vessel rolls a critical glitch, the result is always
a true form. If the spirit gets a critical glitch,
the merging is unsuccessful and the vessel is
immune to future inhabitation attempts by
that spirit.
The period of inhabitation is trying for
both vessel and spirit. If the vessel is removed
from the lodge before completion, both the
spirit and host will die (gamemaster’s discretion).
At the end of the inhabitation period,
the spirit takes full control over the host as determined
by who won the Opposed Test and
to what degree. For more details, see Spirits
and Vessels, p. 95.
It seems that with inhabitation unlike possession the vessel must be prepared. So a few days to prepare the vessel, and a few days to inhabit.
QUOTE
The body of a magician or mystic adept is considered a
prepared vessel for any spirit he conjures, no special preparation
needed. Likewise, an astrally projecting character’s
empty body counts as an available vessel, whether it has been
specially prepared or not.
prepared vessel for any spirit he conjures, no special preparation
needed. Likewise, an astrally projecting character’s
empty body counts as an available vessel, whether it has been
specially prepared or not.
Page 95 street magic
So really it would be relatively easy to take over and permanently steal the body of an astrally projecting dragon with a possession spirit ally but it would be much harder to inhabit them.
If a comatose dragon still resits with its full intuition+willpower then it would then be possible inhabit them for a flesh form or hybrid form spirit/dragon.
This does not mean getting to the dragon and kidnapping them would be at all easy of course.
QUOTE (Mooncrow @ Sep 1 2010, 11:00 PM)
Ally spirit creation is SM page 103 - step 2. Choose Form(s)
I won't be back to my books for at least a couple of hours, so I'm curious. Can Ally spirits get Possession? I know they can get Materialization and Inhabitation.
It is in the errata. In the book it is just not mentioned but really it makes sense that they can be possession.
It's also in the newer copies of the book. I have the second printing, and it's listed in mine.
QUOTE (darthmord @ Sep 1 2010, 10:36 PM)
Then let me add a few things *you* specifically posted that indicate otherwise...
1. How many times has it been said that ally spirits don't have that power? I think I've lost count.
2. Ah, right. I've been shutting off my mind to this 'posession tradition' bullshit.
Now, in your defense, I did conflate a couple of things... namely any jackwad that goes spouting their own mouth off using the above statements is typically derisive, & condescending and holds tightly to the belief that SR magic is OP no matter what.
Perhaps you aren't one of those who holds tightly to that belief (thus I should not have conflated the two things). If you aren't, I apologize. But your post I've quoted... enough commentary on that from me.
[
Funny thing that... I re-read the OP's post and amazingly enough, there not a single f'ing mention of a god damned Great Dragon. So again, get off your high horse. If you plan on riding my ass on technical details, I suggest you get your facts straight first (especially after your diatribe above).
Or perhaps I should make the claim of a strawman? You throwing one in here (dragon vice great, when it was clarified the question was Re: dragon, not great) and then deriding me over it is a classic example of one regardless of your subsequent backpedalling later in the thread.
But in the end it doesn't matter. I'll take my warning (if the mods feel I warrant one). SR is for all types of players, mage haters and mage lover alike.
The OP asked a question and I gave it the best answer I could. Did I quote all my sources? No because I do not have my books by my side at the very moment I answered initially. Can I? Yes, if the OP were curious where my statements derive from, they could PM me and I'd answer with the page refs once I had a chance to find them to support my claim.
I don't care if the OP is thought to be a munchkin or not. A question was asked and answered. The questioner's reputation (supposed or real) does not factor into my decision to answer a question posed.
If there is genuine interest in me backing up my answer with cites (since there is some disbelief later in the thread), I will post cites that support my answer. All it takes is someone to say so.
PS: SM has a line or two that states a mage's body is considered a prepared vessel for purposes of inhabitation. I'm sure folks can figure it out from there given that Dragons are all magicians.
1. How many times has it been said that ally spirits don't have that power? I think I've lost count.
2. Ah, right. I've been shutting off my mind to this 'posession tradition' bullshit.
Now, in your defense, I did conflate a couple of things... namely any jackwad that goes spouting their own mouth off using the above statements is typically derisive, & condescending and holds tightly to the belief that SR magic is OP no matter what.
Perhaps you aren't one of those who holds tightly to that belief (thus I should not have conflated the two things). If you aren't, I apologize. But your post I've quoted... enough commentary on that from me.
[
Funny thing that... I re-read the OP's post and amazingly enough, there not a single f'ing mention of a god damned Great Dragon. So again, get off your high horse. If you plan on riding my ass on technical details, I suggest you get your facts straight first (especially after your diatribe above).
Or perhaps I should make the claim of a strawman? You throwing one in here (dragon vice great, when it was clarified the question was Re: dragon, not great) and then deriding me over it is a classic example of one regardless of your subsequent backpedalling later in the thread.
But in the end it doesn't matter. I'll take my warning (if the mods feel I warrant one). SR is for all types of players, mage haters and mage lover alike.
The OP asked a question and I gave it the best answer I could. Did I quote all my sources? No because I do not have my books by my side at the very moment I answered initially. Can I? Yes, if the OP were curious where my statements derive from, they could PM me and I'd answer with the page refs once I had a chance to find them to support my claim.
I don't care if the OP is thought to be a munchkin or not. A question was asked and answered. The questioner's reputation (supposed or real) does not factor into my decision to answer a question posed.
If there is genuine interest in me backing up my answer with cites (since there is some disbelief later in the thread), I will post cites that support my answer. All it takes is someone to say so.
PS: SM has a line or two that states a mage's body is considered a prepared vessel for purposes of inhabitation. I'm sure folks can figure it out from there given that Dragons are all magicians.
Y'know what - Nah, I'm not gonna rise to this. Keep your backhanded non-apology. You think what you want. You'll have your opinion, I'll have mine.
QUOTE (Mäx @ Sep 1 2010, 11:42 AM)
Counting the seconds until some quotes the FAQ for you
You mean the one that contradicts what's written in the book?
It's 'the' FAQ; there's only the one. No need for specification. 
QUOTE (Mordinvan @ Sep 2 2010, 09:13 AM)
You mean the one that contradicts what's written in the book?
Yeas that one(like there's more then one), thats why there's a big smiley in the end.
QUOTE (Mooncrow @ Sep 1 2010, 06:00 PM)
Ally spirit creation is SM page 103 - step 2. Choose Form(s)
The astral projecting mage's body is a vessel is SM page 95
The astral projecting mage's body is a vessel is SM page 95
Thank you.
All of you have no imagination.
To successfully enchant a Great Dragon, all you need is a team of a few hundred mages and/or ally spirits working together in a teamwork/extended test.
A team of a few hundred high-force ally spirits (say force 20 and above) would have no trouble scoring the required hits in order to enchant a great dragon regardless of how powerful his essence/magic is.
Or a team of a few hundred mages burning one point of edge each.
No problemo, chummers.
To successfully enchant a Great Dragon, all you need is a team of a few hundred mages and/or ally spirits working together in a teamwork/extended test.
A team of a few hundred high-force ally spirits (say force 20 and above) would have no trouble scoring the required hits in order to enchant a great dragon regardless of how powerful his essence/magic is.
Or a team of a few hundred mages burning one point of edge each.
No problemo, chummers.
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