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Whipstitch
Damn, accidental double post...

Uh, but yeah... the only advantages the Savalette has is the fact that it can do a wide short burst or be switched to semiautomatic mode to conserve rounds. If you want to down a man in a single pass, however, the Thunderbolt's still the pony to bet on due to the ROF it can kick out.
Shrike30
Oo... gauss rifle biggrin.gif
Rotbart van Dainig
Still, the gun modification's slot costs don't add up - especially not for the 'moving gun' mods.
Stahlseele
Savalette is still cheaper and comes with smartlink allready included and is not specifically only capable of narrow bursts
Whipstitch
n/m, I misread you. Anyway, I"m just saying that being able to fire two narrow bursts> being able to fire 1 wide or narrow burst.
Stahlseele
then why it is specifically mentioned with the thunderbolt and not with the savalette?
Shrike30
Burst fire weapons are capable of narrow and wide bursts. The thunderbolt's ROF is probably the reason it is limited to narrow bursts. You'll note that it's design also incorporates more recoil compensation than the Guardian, and allows for two bursts a turn, rather than just one.

Thank you, thank you, THANK YOU for not building the burst into the damage code this time around biggrin.gif
Kyoto Kid
QUOTE (Stahlseele)
Savalette is still cheaper and comes with smartlink allready included and is not specifically only capable of narrow bursts

...Gotta swap out the Fubuki with the Savalette when I get my PDS. A much more elegant weapon for someone like my Violet.

As to Manatech, I was hoping there might be some new developments like the ManaDampers from GURPS. Looks like the boys at Aeon Labs need to burn some midnight oil.

I am very curious about the Martial Arts rules especially if there actually are some for Gun-Fu. Both KK and Death Blossom would benefit from that.

...BTW, just heard from my "Fixer" this morning, he's on it, so I should get the PDF sometime this week. biggrin.gif cool.gif

[edit - double take]

...waitaminute! Gauss Rifle...?
Whipstitch
Savelette can't do two bursts in one pass KK; I'd suggest keeping the Fubuki 'cuz of its integral stock, concealability, higher ammo capacity and the fact that it treats BF as semiauto fire for the purposes of recoil. The Fichetti is nice too, but the wide narrow burst capability is hurt by the fact that it suffers more from recoil than the Fabuki. But really, the Savelette is often best treated as simply a Predator that has a point of integral recoil compensation. I'd rather get a custom grip and take two shots at someone in order to threaten lots of damage and force a multiple attacks defense penalty than take a single short burst. It even takes less ammo.
Ryu
@Kyoto: Its called "Firefight" and was developed by Ares. I think you will like the rules, but change the name/history.
Ancient History
QUOTE (Kyoto Kid)
As to Manatech, I was hoping there might be some new developments like the ManaDampers from GURPS. Looks like the boys at Aeon Labs need to burn some midnight oil.

Hell no. I got my rant on about that when they put in the FPS game.
Shrike30
QUOTE (Whipstitch)
I'd rather get a custom grip and take two shots at someone in order to threaten lots of damage and force a multiple attacks defense penalty than take a single short burst. It even takes less ammo.

Yeah, but there's a certain amount of style that comes from being able to jam the gun into someone's belly, pull the trigger once, and be pretty damn sure that one of the three rounds fired hit something important.
Kyoto Kid
QUOTE (Ancient History)
QUOTE (Kyoto Kid @ Jan 27 2008, 07:03 PM)
As to Manatech, I was hoping there might be some new developments like the ManaDampers from GURPS. Looks like the boys at Aeon Labs need to burn some midnight oil.

Hell no. I got my rant on about that when they put in the FPS game.

...awww, gee, wiz you're no fun. frown.gif Gotta give mundanes some defence against ritual locating/targeting since wards are now pretty much ineffectual.
Ancient History
QUOTE (Kyoto Kid)
QUOTE (Ancient History)
QUOTE (Kyoto Kid @ Jan 27 2008, 07:03 PM)
As to Manatech, I was hoping there might be some new developments like the ManaDampers from GURPS. Looks like the boys at Aeon Labs need to burn some midnight oil.

Hell no. I got my rant on about that when they put in the FPS game.

...awww, gee, wiz you're no fun. frown.gif Gotta give mundanes some defence against ritual locating/targeting since wards are now pretty much ineffectual.

We did. Manacoffin. And wards are not ineffectual.
Stahlseele
in usually Use the Savalette for Gel-Ammo . . in SR3 S-Damage means T for knock-down means AUTOMATIC knoch-down and a 10 for Target Number of course before Armor is still good . . . with 2 Successes against TN2(if you use that weapon on more than short range it's your own fault for not switching to Laser-Pointer and Zoom) that is still not easy to resist . .
Whipstitch
QUOTE (Shrike30 @ Jan 27 2008, 02:28 PM)
QUOTE (Whipstitch @ Jan 27 2008, 12:08 PM)
I'd rather get a custom grip and take two shots at someone in order to threaten lots of damage and force a multiple attacks defense penalty than take a single short burst. It even takes less ammo.

Yeah, but there's a certain amount of style that comes from being able to jam the gun into someone's belly, pull the trigger once, and be pretty damn sure that one of the three rounds fired hit something important.

Yeah, but if you fire two bursts from a Thunderbolt instead you get style plus an exist wound you could toss a cat through.
PBTHHHHT
Hmmm... I'm having the worse of luck of downloading my copy from battlecorp. *sigh* I was wondering if anybody else if having trouble.
Whipstitch
Hrm, I had no problems. Hopefully it will work itself out.
Shrike30
ELEVEN PAGES ON DEMOLITION AND EXPLOSIVES.

ELEVEN.

This makes me happy. cyber.gif
knasser
QUOTE (Shrike30)
ELEVEN PAGES ON DEMOLITION AND EXPLOSIVES.

ELEVEN.

This makes me happy. cyber.gif


29 pages of compiled tables necessary for referencing and no bookmarking in the PDF. This, I'm sorry to say, does not.
Synner
QUOTE (knasser)
Okay, I give up. I've been through the vehicle modifications section twice over and I cannot find any modification for increasing Body of a vehicle / drone. Where is this please?

Apologies, my bad. "Structural Reinforcement" didn't make the final cut. IIRC It allowed you to increase Bod by 1 (to a max of 3) for 10% decrease in Speed and was a standard mod for drones. Consider this an unofficial mod until you see it on the official website.
Synner
QUOTE (knasser)
29 pages of compiled tables necessary for referencing and no bookmarking in the PDF. This, I'm sorry to say, does not.

29 pages of tables listing page references in all relevant books...
knasser
QUOTE (Synner)
QUOTE (knasser @ Jan 27 2008, 10:45 PM)
29 pages of compiled tables necessary for referencing and no bookmarking in the PDF. This, I'm sorry to say, does not.

29 pages of tables listing page references in all relevant books...


Yes, I noticed the page references in the table and it must have been a pain for someone to look everything up, it's why I cut slack and didn't mention the lack of index at the same time - the tables partially are an index. But the presence of page numbers doesn't preclude PDF bookmarking - you had it in Augmentation. The lack of bookmarks was one of the early things I noticed when I was skimming through the tables looking for things. I had no quick way to find what I wanted other than to click through each page, so call it an average 10 page clicks. I think my housemate can add bookmarks to PDFs though, so I'll ask him. I imagine this would be more of a nuisance for people with slower computers as they'd have to wait for the text to resolve each time to see if it was what they wanted or not.

Thanks a lot for getting back to me on the Body modifications. It would be great if that could get the semi-official status of appearing on a website, but I'm having fun with the modification rules already. Will post some of my creations as one of my PDFs when I'm done.

-K.

Kyoto Kid
QUOTE (Shrike30)
ELEVEN PAGES ON DEMOLITION AND EXPLOSIVES.

ELEVEN.

This makes me happy. cyber.gif

ic.gif ...Taj pomoć za nuždu mene na taj naÄ?in sretan previÅ¡e.

[Giggles girlishly]

--Leela G. ic.gif
Whipstitch
Question about the Martial Arts rules: Are you allowed to Riposte into a Finishing move and give up your next two consecutive actions? Because if so, that'd be pretty bad ass when combined with Combat Sense and the Counterstrike Adept power. I'll likely never be convinced that melee combat is really in any way optimal due to how nasty firearms are, but that li'l trick combined with Vicious Blow or Hardliner Gloves could really ruin some poor slot's day if they took a swing at you.


-EDIT-

Oh, and while I'm at it: Is everyone really OK with the idea that you can spend 7 bp and pick up Vicious Blow and a Shock Hand or Taser weapon to threaten a 5-7(e)P -half AP damage code? I'm more or less fine with it, but it seems a wee tad inexpensive relative to the other tricks you could pull off with the Martial Arts rules.
Adam
Hey, I'm on vacation, so I'm just skimming, but I'm a little confused: the PDF I built had bookmarking, for sure. Are you requesting that there also be bookmarks in the tables section? I figured that would be extraneous, as you can easily search within the document/tables for what you need.
bibliophile20
QUOTE (Kyoto Kid)

...Taj pomoć za nuždu mene na taj naÄ?in sretan previÅ¡e.

[Giggles girlishly]

--Leela G.

Translation, please.
Kyoto Kid
...just Leela in her native Croatian saying she too is oh so happy.

...she likes things that go *BOOM* very much.
hobgoblin
QUOTE (Whipstitch)
Question about the Martial Arts rules: Are you allowed to Riposte into a Finishing move and give up your next two consecutive actions? Because if so, that'd be pretty bad ass when combined with Combat Sense and the Counterstrike Adept power. I'll likely never be convinced that melee combat is really in any way optimal due to how nasty firearms are, but that li'l trick combined with Vicious Blow or Hardliner Gloves could really ruin some poor slot's day if they took a swing at you.

now that sounds very action movie/anime like wink.gif

hmm, so far this sounds like a very promising book.

ill wait for the hard cover and then order up a bunch from battlecorps, as i fear order from them is more reliable then trying to get them from any "local" outlet...
jklst14
I like the book but I have a concern re: form fitting armor. Am I reading this correctly, that form fitting is the only kind of armor that can be layered underneath other armor? Won't this mean everyone will be wearing it, especially considering the relatively low cost?
hobgoblin
heh, not the first time, and probably not the last time (unless both catalyst games and wizkids where to fold).
Kyoto Kid
...wooo hooo and a big yeeeeeee haaaaaa!!

Got the referral and just finished downloading. Looks like I'll be busy for the rest of the evening.... biggrin.gif grinbig.gif biggrin.gif grinbig.gif
Ancient History
QUOTE
Question about the Martial Arts rules: Are you allowed to Riposte into a Finishing move and give up your next two consecutive actions?

Yep.

QUOTE
Because if so, that'd be pretty bad ass

Yep

[quote]Oh, and while I'm at it: Is everyone really OK with the idea that you can spend 7 bp and pick up Vicious Blow and a Shock Hand or Taser weapon to threaten a 5-7(e)P -half AP damage code? I'm more or less fine with it, but it seems a wee tad inexpensive relative to the other tricks you could pull off with the Martial Arts rules.[quote]
Relatively inexpensive was part of the idea.
Whipstitch
I like the new Martial Arts rules better than the ones seen in Cannon Companion (then again, I once met a Neo-Nazi I liked better than Cannon Companion), but I am a bit mixed on some of the maneuvers. I'm willing to put aside the whole "Wait, 7 unarmed doesn't cover kicking?" issue based on the assumption that the game is abstract enough to represent the Kick Attack as simply meaning "You're extra good at kicking" rather than "You can't kick without this", but the bigger issue is that I feel like things like Finishing Move and the Disarming parry should have been standard maneuvers to begin with. Relatively minor complaints though; you guys managed to create Martial Arts rules that don't make me want to set the book on fire, which is no small feat. If nothing else I feel like I can just grab Finishing Move and make it a standard option without feeling like I plucked something overpowered straight from the ether. biggrin.gif
cx2
I've laughed so much at the black market section, with the mention of a Dwarf that prefers payment in Troll sex.

Gotta love that you slipped in still suits too, hee.

Busy salivating over the vehicle mods right now.
raverbane
I like this book. Lots of content and crunchy bits that have been missing from the game.

But...

Some parts of it are a hard read. Almost like alot of the book was written in a foreign language and washed through a translator program. If that was the case..

Bad Editor!!

No cookie for you!!

I found a link to a post that has itemized some of the parts I found.

http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?show...=0&#entry626389
BishopMcQ
QUOTE (jklst14)
I like the book but I have a concern re: form fitting armor. Am I reading this correctly, that form fitting is the only kind of armor that can be layered underneath other armor? Won't this mean everyone will be wearing it, especially considering the relatively low cost?

Damn near so...any professional runner in SR3 or SR4 should have a set of FFBA. In many ways, it serves as an easy bar to set posers apart from the rest.
Fortune
Even in SR2, when it was first introduced, it was a 'must-have'.
BishopMcQ
My memories of SR2 are foggy enough that I couldn't speak honestly to it...
Cardul
QUOTE (Fortune)
Even in SR2, when it was first introduced, it was a 'must-have'.

I miss "The Turtle"...Troll with high end Dermal plating, FFBA, mil-spec body armour, and a long coat, fromback in second edition..sure he could not mve very fast..but the thing took a A Vindicator loaded with APDS rounds to the chest way back in SR2...
Fortune
QUOTE (Cardul)
I miss "The Turtle"...Troll with high end Dermal plating, FFBA, mil-spec body armour, and a long coat, fromback in second edition..sure he could not mve very fast..but the thing took a A Vindicator loaded with APDS rounds to the chest way back in SR2...

You forgot the Gel Packs. wink.gif biggrin.gif
Synner
I for one have been using the Armor degradation rules with the introduction of form-fitting armor and balance hasn't been an issue.
knasser
QUOTE (Adam)
Hey, I'm on vacation, so I'm just skimming, but I'm a little confused: the PDF I built had bookmarking, for sure. Are you requesting that there also be bookmarks in the tables section? I figured that would be extraneous, as you can easily search within the document/tables for what you need.


No - go back to your vacation and relax! smile.gif

Don't worry about the book marking being entirely missing. It is there and it works, I am, as you surmise, saying that I would like bookmarking in the tables section. Searching the text for the entries that you want doesn't work as searches start from the beginning of the book. And as I said, on slower computers it can take a second for a page to resolve so you can see what's in there, hence bookmarks within the table section as we had with Augmentation (which had fantastic bookmarking through out) would be useful.

You do have a problem with the opening fiction sections in that the spacing is shot to pieces on at least my machine (KPDF on Linux, handles everything else I've ever given it perfectly, so suspect the PDF). But worry about it when you get back!

Thanks for finishing this,

-K.
Cardul
QUOTE (Fortune @ Jan 28 2008, 01:47 AM)
QUOTE (Cardul @ Jan 28 2008, 05:40 PM)
I miss "The Turtle"...Troll with high end Dermal plating, FFBA, mil-spec body armour, and a long coat, fromback in second edition..sure he could not mve very fast..but the thing took a A Vindicator loaded with APDS rounds to the chest way back in SR2...

You forgot the Gel Packs. wink.gif biggrin.gif

No..they weren't out when he was being run...Only Samurai to have not done something stupid to my rigger..He was finally killed by corp-sec guy wiht our first taste f the Fields of Fire stuff: an Anti-tank missle fired from that BIG missile launcher..(After that, he went for a mage..and then I had to eject two samurai in the Ejection Seat of DOOM! for pulling a gun on my rigger and telling me how to drive. Did you know that a Street Sam in an exploding ejection seat makes a great anti-personnel weapon?)

OOOO! That brings this up: Did they include rules for determining the shrapnel and kill zone when you blow up a heavily cybered character? As in, put shaped charges behind him and set them off?
Shrike30
I'm pretty sure that uses the "tamped charge" breaching rules.
Fortune
QUOTE (Cardul)
QUOTE (Fortune)
You forgot the Gel Packs.

No..they weren't out when he was being run...

Gel Packs came out in the Street Samurai Catalog, which was the very first supplement for SR1.
Cardul
QUOTE (Fortune)
QUOTE (Cardul @ Jan 28 2008, 08:08 PM)
QUOTE (Fortune)
You forgot the Gel Packs.

No..they weren't out when he was being run...

Gel Packs came out in the Street Samurai Catalog, which was the very first supplement for SR1.

Wow..shows how long it has been since I played SR2...(never played SR1)..Don't know why the guy did not have them then...come to think of, I don't recall ever using them, myself.
Ophis
QUOTE (Fortune)
QUOTE (Cardul @ Jan 28 2008, 08:08 PM)
QUOTE (Fortune)
You forgot the Gel Packs.

No..they weren't out when he was being run...

Gel Packs came out in the Street Samurai Catalog, which was the very first supplement for SR1.

I swear they were a Fields of Fire add on...
PBTHHHHT
QUOTE (Synner)
QUOTE (knasser @ Jan 27 2008, 08:07 AM)
Okay, I give up. I've been through the vehicle modifications section twice over and I cannot find any modification for increasing Body of a vehicle / drone. Where is this please?

Apologies, my bad. "Structural Reinforcement" didn't make the final cut. IIRC It allowed you to increase Bod by 1 (to a max of 3) for 10% decrease in Speed and was a standard mod for drones. Consider this an unofficial mod until you see it on the official website.

Ok, I finally got it downloaded. Huzzah!

Other thing I note about the vehicles stuff, is this almost a rigger's book hidden in here? It almost is, so now I'm afraid to ask... is there another edition around the corner? *looks around all paranoid* eek.gif
Cardul
QUOTE (PBTHHHHT)

Other thing I note about the vehicles stuff, is this almost a rigger's book hidden in here? It almost is, so now I'm afraid to ask... is there another edition around the corner? *looks around all paranoid* eek.gif

No, no..we have to wait until they come out Arsenal 2 Revised.

I admit, I was kind of hoping that we would one day see a new Rigger Black Book with the full page entries and such again...I so miss the full page ads with the commentary right under them...
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