Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Arsenal Street Date & Pre-Order information
Dumpshock Forums > Discussion > Shadowrun
Pages: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5
bibliophile20
QUOTE (Ancient History)
QUOTE (Synner @ Jan 27 2008, 02:30 AM)
Wow, two whole pages and still no one freaking about Manatech. Sheesh. Much ado about nothing it seems...

There was some gushing over Wyrd Mantis Essence in the other thread. Personally, I think people haven't found K-10 yet.

I saw that entry on K-10... and started cackling madly. vegm.gif
arathian
QUOTE (Ancient History)
Personally, I think people haven't found K-10 yet.

I described it to the other players as Kamikaze... on Kamikaze.

K-10 and Immortal Flower are good examples of game balance in my opinion.

For substances player characters might make a habit of using, Betameth, Little Smoke, and NoPaint stand out to me.

An aside: do many people see Spirit Strength from Street Magic in their games?
Whipstitch
QUOTE (Jaid @ Jan 26 2008, 06:42 PM)
QUOTE (hermit @ Jan 26 2008, 06:06 PM)
In other news, whoever compiled the vehicle section is an idiot. Lots of niche vehicles (segway!), very blurry vehicle modding rules, and little to no actually useful vehicles for either GMs or PC riggers. Like, no armoured land vehicle, no citymaster, no Mobmaster, but two dune buggies, a monocycle on amphetamines (for all those 2,5 remaining Halloweeners, I presume), smething called revolution where I have a hard time making out what it's supposed to look like in that miniature artwork, no transport helicopter like the dragon, but a hunter-killer sub ... this chapter calls for a netbook.

maybe you should try reading the basic book, then.

I also like how he says two "dune buggies" when one is a 2 man ATV with a fixed weapon mount ala the warthog that has nothing to do with deserts while the second is actually an off-road racing truck built specifically for deserts but ALSO happens to have an enviable suite of features that's perfect for someone who wants a great all-around vehicle but doesn't want to pick up the skills to mod it themselves. I mean, seriously, what is it about the Tata Hotspur that's impractical for runners? Is it the fact that the stock version can go about as fast as a Suzuki Mirage or the part where it has 16 body & 10 Armor w/ Personnel Armor standard for less than the price of a Eurocar Westwind? Plus, the drawing made me think of Mad Max. It single handedly convinced me that my next character will be a rigger/face with a past in gun running.
Cardul
*glares at his GM* OK...my GM just let slip that she is putting a +12 availability on anything NOT made by a JapanaCorp for the game that she is going to be putting into Neo-Tokyo(and a -4 Availability to anything made by a Japanacorp, and no availability mod to anything that is 'generic'). So, for me, this is kind of important:

Are there any firearms that are either generic or made by a Japanacorp in there? Or is everything, as usual, H&K, Ares, Ruger, Browning, Remington, Colt, etc?

Also, just to alleviate my own curiosity: did the old HV weapons come back, and did they include more weapons like the Sakura from the main book?(I.E., using Metal Storm technology)
JonathanC
I think I'm in love.

http://www.battlecorps.com/catalog/images/...003_Arsenal.jpg


Now that's one classy lady. Far more orkish than the Gunslinger in the Core book, but still quite a hottie. She can run shadow ops in my undisclosed location anytime. wink.gif

Seriously though, a much better cover than Augmentation, or even Corporate Enclaves, IMO. It's evocative of the best of SR3-era art IMO. I can't wait to have it on my shelf.
Whipstitch
I believe I talked to your GM about this on another forum, actually, although I'm shocked to hear that it'd be +12, since that essentially means you can't own gaijin brand firearms at all in creation, which hits me as a bit perplexing since Neo-Tokyo is the top contender for the Unofficial Capitol of the Sixth World title. Sure, firearms are flat out illegal for civilian ownership there, but that also means that by definition just about everything will either be smuggled in somehow or acquired under thet able from the corps themselves. I would expect firearms to simply be rare across the board rathert han limited to Japanese brands, especially since the Japanacorps aren't much interested in traditional firearms design, which in many ways has been a mature technology since around the 1920s.

Anyway, there's not very many Japanese made weapons mentioned in Arsenal; I think your best bet is to hope that your GM realizes there's likely a no frills generic Japanese manufactured weapon for every standard weapon category. After all, range and damage codes tend to be uniform from weapon type to weapon type, and I know off the top of my head that there's at least one Japanese arms company, SCK (Shin Chou Kogyo) who has been supplying weapons to Japanacorp security teams like the Red Samurai as far back as least 3rd edition.
Fortune
QUOTE (Cardul)
OK...my GM just let slip that she is putting a +12 availability on anything NOT made by a JapanaCorp for the game that she is going to be putting into Neo-Tokyo(and a -4 Availability to anything made by a Japanacorp, and no availability mod to anything that is 'generic').

That strikes me as quite ... inane.

The big 10 have a presence everywhere in the Sixth World, unless something specifically describes them as being barred (as Saeder Krupp used to be from doing business in the Tir). Even if the one specific megacorp is barred, they usually can find a way around that through subsiduaries and all that corp crap to do business in the area.
knasser
QUOTE (bibliophile20)
QUOTE (Ancient History @ Jan 26 2008, 10:24 PM)
QUOTE (Synner @ Jan 27 2008, 02:30 AM)
Wow, two whole pages and still no one freaking about Manatech. Sheesh. Much ado about nothing it seems...

There was some gushing over Wyrd Mantis Essence in the other thread. Personally, I think people haven't found K-10 yet.

I saw that entry on K-10... and started cackling madly. vegm.gif


Just read it and... what?!?!?!?!!

Is it meant to have gone under the awakened drugs? Because it is ridiculously beyond belief. +6 Strength? What does it do - rebuild people's musculature with nanotech? An unathletic teenage girl can take this, then pick up a 200lb man and throw him at you.

The Edge (1) test to not retire your character is also a nasty little thing.
Whipstitch
Yeah, K-10 is basically a GM tool, since it's not really suitable for use by characters who don't have a death wish since the unresisted stun is hellish even if you do resist the permanent berserk test. Still, if you desperately want to fuck somebody up and don't mind a high probability of dying in the process, I can think of worse ways to spend your nuyen.

And yeah Fortune, I know what you mean, but to each their own, I guess. dead.gif
knasser
QUOTE (Synner)
QUOTE (knasser @ Jan 26 2008, 11:39 AM)
Seems odd that a human-sized anthroform should be limited to Strength 6, or maybe I've misread something. It's deadly enough, anyway.

Actually that's the baseline for the human-sized Otomo, drone modifications that enhance Bod can increase that and it's pretty much standard for Otomos to be customized for specific functions. If you want more punch, you can always roll out a modified Tomino.


Okay, I give up. I've been through the vehicle modifications section twice over and I cannot find any modification for increasing Body of a vehicle / drone. Where is this please?

-K.
arathian
QUOTE (knasser @ Jan 27 2008, 02:40 AM)
An unathletic teenage girl can take this, then pick up a 200lb man and throw him at you.

Maybe K-10 explains the picture on page 155?

Edit: I can't find rules for increasing the Body of a drone either.
knasser
QUOTE (arathian @ Jan 27 2008, 08:45 AM)
QUOTE (knasser @ Jan 27 2008, 02:40 AM)
An unathletic teenage girl can take this, then pick up a 200lb man and throw him at you.

Maybe K-10 explains the picture on page 155?

Edit: I can't find rules for increasing the Body of a drone either.


Heh. Yeah, but the teenage girl is the one on the right.

EDIT: Anyone find the ranges for Laser weapons? I see the rules for how different range categories affect the DP modifiers - they're right in front of me, but I've no idea which firearms category they use? Sniper rifles? The Heavy one says it can fire precisely up to 1.5km but that's all I have to go on. It's times like this that an index would be handy. frown.gif

EDIT EDIT: Never mind, it's in the description and they each have different range categories.
Cardul
QUOTE (JonathanC)
I think I'm in love.

http://www.battlecorps.com/catalog/images/...003_Arsenal.jpg


Now that's one classy lady. Far more orkish than the Gunslinger in the Core book, but still quite a hottie. She can run shadow ops in my undisclosed location anytime. wink.gif

Seriously though, a much better cover than Augmentation, or even Corporate Enclaves, IMO. It's evocative of the best of SR3-era art IMO. I can't wait to have it on my shelf.

Wow...I am wondering where they got the picture of my old GM down in Melbourne(FL) for that cover? They got it all the way down to the purple hair and the garage!(admittedly, they were markers, not guns...and she hand built them...)(and why is it more women GM for Shadowrun then any other game, at least in my experience?)
Cardul
Oh, BTW, since a guy listed as the As. Line Dev is so amazed that no-one has made a big deal about the Manatech yet...um..can someone please like spill what the heck Manatech is? You do not have to give any numbers or anything(and thus make the people who decided not to give us any previews of this *glares at whoever is responsible* have fits). I just want to know what the frell it is!
Rotbart van Dainig
Fun Facts:

Leäl is making the toughest troll forget more than Laés. (100min vs 1h)
And smoking Laés makes it more potent... at least the Laés Cigarette is better than the original.
knasser
QUOTE (Cardul)
Oh, BTW, since a guy listed as the As. Line Dev is so amazed that no-one has made a big deal about the Manatech yet...um..can someone please like spill what the heck Manatech is? You do not have to give any numbers or anything(and thus make the people who decided not to give us any previews of this *glares at whoever is responsible* have fits). I just want to know what the frell it is!


Well it's not the horror that would be magic-powered technology some of us dreaded when we heard the term. It's a catchall for technology that relates to magic, e.g. dual natured bacteria that grow active in the presence of background count, mage masks that Lonestar might put on a captured mage to deafen and blind him with noise and light, to disrupt concentration on spell casting. Some of it is really skirting the edges of "magic-technology" however, something that longer-time plays normally dislike, I think. (Least I do).
Grinder
QUOTE (knasser)
Is it meant to have gone under the awakened drugs? Because it is ridiculously beyond belief. +6 Strength? What does it do - rebuild people's musculature with nanotech? An unathletic teenage girl can take this, then pick up a 200lb man and throw him at you.

The Edge (1) test to not retire your character is also a nasty little thing.

For those of us without the PDF (yet), would be so kind and explain the Edge (1) test? smile.gif
Rotbart van Dainig
If you fail, you turn 'Cain vs. SR4' - that is, permanent berserk.
knasser
QUOTE (Rotbart van Dainig)
If you fail, you turn 'Cain vs. SR4' - that is, permanent berserk.

rotfl.gif

Just to clarify, you turn berserk under normal usage of the drug, if you fail the test, the effect on your brain is permanent. Think "I Am Legend".

But given the amount of "Games Masters discretion" I've come across, I'm somewhat more inclined to agree with Cain in some areas of this book than I was in the discussion on the core rules. Not that I'm saying Arsenal is broken in that regard, but I've already found some holes, I think. I'm waiting for the devs to respond though.

-K.
Cardul
QUOTE (knasser)
Well it's not the horror that would be magic-powered technology some of us dreaded when we heard the term. It's a catchall for technology that relates to magic, e.g. dual natured bacteria that grow active in the presence of background count, mage masks that Lonestar might put on a captured mage to deafen and blind him with noise and light, to disrupt concentration on spell casting. Some of it is really skirting the edges of "magic-technology" however, something that longer-time plays normally dislike, I think. (Least I do).

Ah..I was thinking it was going to be tehnological versions of some of the old Earthdawn Blood Magic Items, or something like mixes of magic and technology. As in..something "new." The bacteria and stuff..that has been around for a long time. At least, I remember it from some books back in SR3.

What skirts that boundary?(Please remember, you are talking to one of the people who still believes Earthdawn=4th World, and so does my GM...even though I am the one with all the ED books in our group...)
knasser
QUOTE (Cardul)
QUOTE (knasser @ Jan 27 2008, 05:24 AM)
Well it's not the horror that would be magic-powered technology some of us dreaded when we heard the term. It's a catchall for technology that relates to magic, e.g. dual natured bacteria that grow active in the presence of background count, mage masks that Lonestar might put on a captured mage to deafen and blind him with noise and light, to disrupt concentration on spell casting. Some of it is really skirting the edges of "magic-technology" however, something that longer-time plays normally dislike, I think. (Least I do).

Ah..I was thinking it was going to be tehnological versions of some of the old Earthdawn Blood Magic Items, or something like mixes of magic and technology. As in..something "new." The bacteria and stuff..that has been around for a long time. At least, I remember it from some books back in SR3.

What skirts that boundary?(Please remember, you are talking to one of the people who still believes Earthdawn=4th World, and so does my GM...even though I am the one with all the ED books in our group...)


Well I don't think it's a problem for me to explain some bits and pieces. You still need the book to actually use this fluff. There are things like the Lucifer Lamp which illuminates both the Physical and the Astral plane by use of an orichalcum filament (instead of tungsten, I suppose). That to me is skirting the "magic item" concept. Lack of magic items - that only an awakened character could focus magic through them, along with a strong Technology vs. Magic theme is one of the things that really set Shadowrun apart when it first appeared and I'm just a little wary of things that start breaking that down. Others may not care.
Stahlseele
From Corporate Enclaves Preview PDF
QUOTE
Sorayama didn’t fall behind the bleeding edge—he blew past it. He
spent his roll on some experimental Renraku skillwire system and
it had some teething problems—hence the strokes—but now he’s on
stipend to three different Chiba delta clinics researching manatech
implants
and combining different approaches to augmentation—cyberware,
bioware, genetech, nanotech—into comprehensive implant
systems. Just you wait and see what he comes up with next.

i know now that manatech means things like new foci and spell formulae and such things . . but what about the part made bold by me?
Rotbart van Dainig
QUOTE (knasser)
Not that I'm saying Arsenal is broken in that regard, but I've already found some holes, I think.

No, the word 'broken' is to be reserved for some of the martial arts advantages.
Sure, they cost a truckload of karma... but... they stack.
Cardul
Knasser, I point to Stahlseele's post. He kind of pointed out the thing that had me wondering, too, though, I did not have my corporate enclaves with me here at work..Were there any Manatech Implants?
knasser
QUOTE (Cardul)
Knasser, I point to Stahlseele's post. He kind of pointed out the thing that had me wondering, too, though, I did not have my corporate enclaves with me here at work..Were there any Manatech Implants?


No. Not unless a GM house-ruled that you could stick some of these things in capacity for a cyberlimb. There's certainly nothing that sounds like what was hinted at in Runner Havens. For which I'm grateful, personally. Sorry - not my thing.
Demonseed Elite
There are no manatech implants in Arsenal. The idea of them is something that's still in the early research stages and no one's said there are any that work yet.
knasser
QUOTE (Rotbart van Dainig)
QUOTE (knasser)
Not that I'm saying Arsenal is broken in that regard, but I've already found some holes, I think.

No, the word 'broken' is to be reserved for some of the martial arts advantages.
Sure, they cost a truckload of karma... but... they stack.


They wont be featuring in my game, which is something of a first for me as pretty much everything else does so far. The martial arts rules are at least semi-abstract, but they will still lead players and GMs into specific details of melee description - "I'm going to do a kick" which doesn't work in my opinion. I did like the "Gun-Fu" martial arts style (I forget the name right now) but for me it's all unnecessary. Others may like it though and Synner is probably right that it's the best Martial Arts rules for Shadowrun so far (previous editions were awful).

I'm not convinced that them stacking is a problem, if they do. As positive qualities aren't you capped in how many you could have? You might be right as I haven't really weighed up the balance of cost to benefit, but if they're coming at the expense of High Pain Tolerance I don't much care. Melee is antiquated and specialists in it tend to get shot, though each game is different.
Rotbart van Dainig
Actually, that limit applies to chargen only.

And yes, the implementation is way better than the abomination the CC had...
knasser

Hmmm. In that case, yes, you could create a very good close combat fighter. They'd still get shot, though. smile.gif
Cardul
So, with Street Magic, you can have Wire-Fu(thanks to Wallrunning and Gliding), and with Arsenal, you can have Gun-Fu of two gunning?
Rotbart van Dainig
The Firefight MA isn't that impressive... it even only features advantages good for three levels that reduce modifiers, specially for melee with guns.
Older military training stuff like Krav Maga/ROSS, on the other hand, are truely scary... that MA offers to make Ready Weapon and Take Aim Free Actions.
MaxHunter
for the adept with multitasking...biggrin.gif


cheers!

Max
Rotbart van Dainig
Multitasking is non-combat-only.
knasser
QUOTE (Rotbart van Dainig)
Multitasking is non-combat-only.


*breathes again*
hobgoblin
lets not forget that "free actions" are not the same level of free as in some other game...
Ancient History
QUOTE (Demonseed Elite)
There are no manatech implants in Arsenal. The idea of them is something that's still in the early research stages and no one's said there are any that work yet.

Well, there is the glowy symbiont. That could be considered manatech.
Stahlseele
QUOTE (knasser)
Hmmm. In that case, yes, you could create a very good close combat fighter. They'd still get shot, though. smile.gif

yeah so? Dwarf, Orc and especially Troll will not have many Problems with being shot at *g*
Fortune
QUOTE (Stahlseele)
yeah so? Dwarf, Orc and especially Troll will not have many Problems with being shot at

Keep in mind that each +3 to a Dice Pool will only garner you an average of one extra 'hit'. So while that extra bonus to Body is quite nice, it does not in any way equate to being bullet-proof.
Stahlseele
nah, but mystic/dermal/Ortho-Tech means you're pretty much for all purposes bullet proof if applied together with the armor limit based on body *g*
Fortune
QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Jan 28 2008, 02:34 AM)
nah, but mystic/dermal/Ortho-Tech means you're pretty much for all purposes bullet proof if applied together with the armor limit based on body

Well sure, but all that stuff is available to humans and elves as well. All we're really talking about is at most an average a total of +2 'hits' on your defensive rolls.
Stahlseele
yeah, but they get a plus to STR too, so they would probably REALLY profit from close combat being strengthened. . and adepts in general i imagine
Shrike30
Ya know, that whole thing really comes down to "dang, people with high body and high armor get hurt less."

Which is sort of as it should be smile.gif
MYST1C
QUOTE (Fortune)
That strikes me as quite ... inane.

The big 10 have a presence everywhere in the Sixth World, unless something specifically describes them as being barred (as Saeder Krupp used to be from doing business in the Tir).

About as stupid as the (uber-) weapons in the old German books - which for some unexplained reasons were sold only in the AGS despite harsher gun laws...
(But the same designers thought it was a good idea for an arms manufacturer to call a gun "Assassin".)
Stahlseele
*takes a jab*
the urban series and the keramic knife are right back there in arsenal . . *g*
Whipstitch
I like how they made the Urban Series really attractive due the smuggling potential without making the silly thing instantly outperform other pistols. Same with the ol' Thunderbolt-- oh, sure, it's still better than other heavy pistols for sheer damage, but at least it doesn't blow through armor any better than other pistols or outright deal more damage than many of the game's shotguns anymore.
Ophis
Any sign of rules for melee fighting with two weapons?
Ancient History
QUOTE (Ophis)
Any sign of rules for melee fighting with two weapons?

Yes, they're in there. You're welcome.
Ophis
Yay!
Stahlseele
QUOTE (Whipstitch)
I like how they made the Urban Series really attractive due the smuggling potential without making the silly thing instantly outperform other pistols. Same with the ol' Thunderbolt-- oh, sure, it's still better than other heavy pistols for sheer damage, but at least it doesn't blow through armor any better than other pistols or outright deal more damage than many of the game's shotguns anymore.

and the savalette is still better
Whipstitch
No, it's not; it has less recoil compensation and can only make short bursts with a Complex Action while the Thunderbolt fires bursts normally.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Dumpshock Forums © 2001-2012