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Vairdic
Hey all!

Adam's enjoying his well (well) deserved vacation, so I thought I'd take this time to nick in and steal his thunder.

Arsenal has a street date of March 18th, 2008!

That's right! As always we recommend you contact your local gaming store and make a pre-order for it, but if you don't have a local venue, check out the links below to order it direct.

The PDF is available now too!

Arsenal PDF ($25.00)
Arsenal Book only ($34.99)
Arsenal Book & PDF Combo ($54.99)
RobertB
Aaaaaannnnnd purchased!

Robert (aka Spanner)
Cardul
Darn it! I have to wait until payday! Darn school books sucking up all my money!
bibliophile20
biggrin.gif is actually a pretty good representation of my face at the moment.
Trax
Woah, that was fast. I thought there was going to be a preview first. But this is even better.
SuperFly
Most excellent....out for my birthday.

cool.gif
knasser
12% downloaded.

biggrin.gif

EDIT: 26% biggrin.gif biggrin.gif

EDIT: EDIT: 45% biggrin.gif biggrin.gif biggrin.gif

EDIT: EDIT: EDIT: 78% biggrin.gif biggrin.gif biggrin.gif (getting excited!)

EDIT: EDIT: EDIT: EDIT: Oooooooh... semi-automatic assault cannons.
Demerzel
Of course you must have waited until my Commando Demo event so that I would come home all tired and exhausted from my demo so all I can do is buy it and look at the pictures for a few minutes before succumbing to the exhaustion....

I guess it's a good thing, if you released it before the Demo I may have been horribly late to it...

Grinder
As much as I'll enjoy reading the book: the cover art is awful. Not as awful as the one of Augmentation, but still awful.
knasser

Not as bad as Augmentation, but more cartoony than I'd like. Some more serious artwork inside, though. Am speed reading through it at the moment and first impression is not as much power-creep as I'd like. I've also spotted a world of GM pain hidden in one small sentence on pg 165. Will give you a clue: It starts with "The Gamesmaster determines exactly what effect this has..."

Am still skimming tables and rules, though. Haven't even begun to read the less crunchy parts such as black market dealing, et al.
Synner
QUOTE (knasser @ Jan 26 2008, 09:22 AM)
I've also spotted a world of GM pain hidden in one small sentence on pg 165. Will give you a clue: It starts with "The Gamesmaster determines exactly what effect this has..."

There will be more guidelines on this in Unwired, consider it a placeholder since this was written before the relevant section of that book was completed.
knasser

Form-fitting body armour is back and stacks with normal armour. I see all the best-dressed Shadowrunners wearing it this season. Though that's a terrifying image when applied to trolls in what must look like a very snug bondage outfit. eek.gif
knasser
QUOTE (Synner)
QUOTE (knasser @ Jan 26 2008, 09:22 AM)
I've also spotted a world of GM pain hidden in one small sentence on pg 165. Will give you a clue: It starts with "The Gamesmaster determines exactly what effect this has..."

There will be more guidelines on this in Unwired, consider it a placeholder since this was written before the relevant section of that book was completed.


Thought there would be. But in the meantime it's a can of worms I am welding shut and burying at the bottom of my garden. In concrete.

Like the samurai armour, btw. Nice and stylish! smile.gif
Synner
QUOTE (knasser)
Form-fitting body armour is back and stacks with normal armour. I see all the best-dressed Shadowrunners wearing it this season.

There are also those rules on p.44-45 to make armor more interesting...
knasser
QUOTE (Synner)
QUOTE (knasser @ Jan 26 2008, 09:31 AM)
Form-fitting body armour is back and stacks with normal armour. I see all the best-dressed Shadowrunners wearing it this season.

There are also those rules on p.44-45 to make armor more interesting...


Oh... wow...

GM: Make a Logic + Armourer roll.
Player: That's unusual, never had to make one of them before... 2 hits.
GM: You notice that the armour all of these guards were wearing is lined with radiation shielding.
Players (together): Uh oh.

Also noticed Power Armour has sneaked in there. You tried to hide it under a minor little modification type, but I found it!
Thufar_Hawat
A Quick read through, and i have to say very nice book. Good art work, but would have liked to see some pic's of some of the new stuff that hasn't cropped up before in other books.

But on the whole a great book.
martindv
QUOTE (knasser)
I've also spotted a world of GM pain hidden in one small sentence on pg 165. Will give you a clue: It starts with "The Gamesmaster determines exactly what effect this has..."

"This is where Cain goes berserk."
Fortune
QUOTE (Thufar_Hawat)
Good art work, but would have liked to see some pic's of some of the new stuff that hasn't cropped up before in other books.

Such as?
Synner
QUOTE (Thufar_Hawat @ Jan 26 2008, 10:22 AM)
A Quick read through, and i have to say very nice book. Good art work, but would have liked to see some pic's of some of the new stuff that hasn't cropped up before in other books.

Catalyst did try to squeeze as much gear art as possible into the book. The new guns and vehicles are pretty well represented (about 70% of both get illos) compared to some of the other gear though you do get illos for common stuff like a magemask and magecuffs (Yay! Finally got them into print).

QUOTE (knasser)
Am speed reading through it at the moment and first impression is not as much power-creep as I'd like.

As with Augmentation and Street Magic the intent was to keep power-creep and the arms race down to a minimum and offer diversity over "bigger, better, more."

Edt: Wow... almost a full page and nobody's brought up that dreaded "Manatech." nyahnyah.gif
Synner
QUOTE (martindv @ Jan 26 2008, 10:38 AM)
QUOTE (knasser @ Jan 26 2008, 04:22 AM)
I've also spotted a world of GM pain hidden in one small sentence on pg 165. Will give you a clue: It starts with "The Gamesmaster determines exactly what effect this has..."

"This is where Cain goes berserk."

I'm pretty sure he'll be going beserk more than once then - with any luck he'll give up the ghost.
knasser
QUOTE (Synner)
QUOTE (knasser)
Am speed reading through it at the moment and first impression is not as much power-creep as I'd like.

As with Augmentation and Street Magic the intent was to keep power-creep and the arms race down to a minimum and offer diversity over "bigger, better, more."

Edt: Wow... almost a full page and nobody's brought up that dreaded "Manatech." nyahnyah.gif


Understood and appreciated. But I think of the customised cyberlimb rules in Augmentation as a near perfect example. They allow for a very powerful character in theory and the option is there for games to go that way, but just try actually building a character of that power and see what it does to cost and availability levels. Was kind of looking through the vehicle tables for Areas Main Battle Tank. GM's need toys, too, you know. wink.gif

But I've not really read in depth yet. A cursory reading of the rules for customising vehicles and the base stats for the anthroform Otomo drone means I can make a really armoured up cyborg, yes? I'm a bit confused as to what its effective physical attributes would be however.

Also, is it me or is the Otomo missing off the Medium Drones table at the back of the book?
Synner
QUOTE (knasser @ Jan 26 2008, 10:56 AM)
But I've not really read in depth yet. A cursory reading of the rules for customising vehicles and the base stats for the anthroform Otomo drone means I can make a really armoured up cyborg, yes? I'm a bit confused as to what its effective physical attributes would be however.

Jarhead bodies like the Otomo use the rules for rigging drones/vehicles most likely the Tactical Combat ones in SR4 since they'll be interacting with characters rather than vehicles most of the time). Typical Jumped In Rigging dice pools are also available in the FAQ post. How these translate in terms of Atts and Skills is defined in Augmentation.

IIRC (Don't quote me on this until I have time to check my books) use:
• The drone's Body = Body
• The drone's Body = Str
• Vehicle skill (+ the drone’s Handling modifier) = Agility.
• Jarhead's commlink Response = Reaction.
• Intuition + Response (instead of Pilot + Response) = Initiative.
• Drone’s Speed = Movement Rate in tactical combat.
• Attack = Gunnery + Sensor
• Defense= Response
• Dodge = Dodge + Response
• Damage Resistance = Body + Armor
• Initiative = Response + Intuition
• Perception = Perception + (Sensor or Intuition, whichever is lower)

QUOTE
Also, is it me or is the Otomo missing off the Medium Drones table at the back of the book?

It's possible, I'm at work and away from my copy of the book at the moment. There might have been some problems integrating the stats into the tables at the back of the cyborg bodies since they were a late addition to the book.
knasser
QUOTE (Synner)
QUOTE (knasser @ Jan 26 2008, 10:56 AM)
But I've not really read in depth yet. A cursory reading of the rules for customising vehicles and the base stats for the anthroform Otomo drone means I can make a really armoured up cyborg, yes? I'm a bit confused as to what its effective physical attributes would be however.

Jarhead bodies like the Otomo use the rules for drones/vehicles (most likely the Tactical Combat ones in SR4 since they'll be interacting with characters rather than vehicles most of the time). How these translate to in terms of Atts and Skills is defined in Augmentation.


So they are. Augmentation pg. 159 for anyone who's looking at it. Seems odd that a human-sized anthroform should be limited to Strength 6, or maybe I've misread something. It's deadly enough, anyway.

I'm likely to just raise more and more questions that already have answers, so I'll shut up for now until I've read more. Thanks for the replies, Synner.

-K.

martindv
QUOTE (Synner)
QUOTE (martindv @ Jan 26 2008, 10:38 AM)
QUOTE (knasser @ Jan 26 2008, 04:22 AM)
I've also spotted a world of GM pain hidden in one small sentence on pg 165. Will give you a clue: It starts with "The Gamesmaster determines exactly what effect this has..."

"This is where Cain goes berserk."

I'm pretty sure he'll be going beserk more than once then - with any luck he'll give up the ghost.

I hope not. I find it to be the most amusing thing here.
Synner
QUOTE (knasser @ Jan 26 2008, 11:39 AM)
Seems odd that a human-sized anthroform should be limited to Strength 6, or maybe I've misread something. It's deadly enough, anyway.

Actually that's the baseline for the human-sized Otomo, drone modifications that enhance Bod can increase that and it's pretty much standard for Otomos to be customized for specific functions. If you want more punch, you can always roll out a modified Tomino.
Cain
QUOTE (martindv)
QUOTE (knasser @ Jan 26 2008, 04:22 AM)
I've also spotted a world of GM pain hidden in one small sentence on pg 165. Will give you a clue: It starts with "The Gamesmaster determines exactly what effect this has..."

"This is where Cain goes berserk."

Don't have to. Haven't read it much so far, but the cover art alone.... eek.gif
Prime Mover
I've been told that all my maps drawn out during game play look like crooked uterus's so I got very little reason to critique others. I did'nt think Aug cover was as bad as some folks made it out to be. I don't think Arsenal cover looks bad, just think people expected something more polished. That being said, I stick with what I've said before whats between the covers is what I'm interested in. So far sounds good, now payday needs to hurry up and get here.
imperialus
Clenches fists hops up and down squealing like a schoolgirl!
arathian
This book has everything I was hoping it would.

Highlights for me are the:

Milspec armor upgrades (the whole armor and clothing section is great).
Corporate-brand martial arts (Tir, Aztech, and Ares).
Drugs and magical substances - awesome and balanced.

The book is really creative too. Things like the Awakened Mantis OFF! are brilliant.

And, there is so much stuff packed in...

Exceeded my expectations. Thanks.
Dashifen
NO!! I have to run a game and go to a formal dinner with my wife and a manual comes out. Now .... how do I tell my wife I'm "sick" .... yeah, that's it. "Sick ....."


biggrin.gif
Blade
Well the drawings of the cover art are ok... As long you consider each item independantly.

The problem is when you glue them together. I'm surprised that a professional artist managed to get the perspective and scale so wrong. frown.gif
bclements
"ComStar Firewall." Nice one.
hermit
QUOTE
Corporate-brand martial arts (Tir, Aztech, and Ares).

Where did I miss that the Tir was a corporation, and Carromeleg was new? It appeared in the second SR novel ever published. It was in M&M. Granted, is was treated badly in M&M, and I am glad it gets a bit more spotlight this time.

In other news, whoever compiled the vehicle section is an idiot. Lots of niche vehicles (segway!), very blurry vehicle modding rules, and little to no actually useful vehicles for either GMs or PC riggers. Like, no armoured land vehicle, no citymaster, no Mobmaster, but two dune buggies, a monocycle on amphetamines (for all those 2,5 remaining Halloweeners, I presume), smething called revolution where I have a hard time making out what it's supposed to look like in that miniature artwork, no transport helicopter like the dragon, but a hunter-killer sub ... this chapter calls for a netbook.

The rest - especially the weapons and making use of biometal37's artworks where possible - looks significantly better ans is better thought through. Sad, really, that Riggers are once again gimped. And that when SR4 was supposed to make them more sensible and playable, not less.
Jaid
QUOTE (hermit)
In other news, whoever compiled the vehicle section is an idiot. Lots of niche vehicles (segway!), very blurry vehicle modding rules, and little to no actually useful vehicles for either GMs or PC riggers. Like, no armoured land vehicle, no citymaster, no Mobmaster, but two dune buggies, a monocycle on amphetamines (for all those 2,5 remaining Halloweeners, I presume), smething called revolution where I have a hard time making out what it's supposed to look like in that miniature artwork, no transport helicopter like the dragon, but a hunter-killer sub ... this chapter calls for a netbook.

maybe you should try reading the basic book, then.
Kyoto Kid
QUOTE (knasser)
Form-fitting body armour is back and stacks with normal armour. I see all the best-dressed Shadowrunners wearing it this season.

Yaaaaaaaay!

Sounds like the other forms of Armoured clothing lines are back too. Love to get a Zoé Heritage classic Kimono for the Short One, and Victory Industrial line (with hard hat) for Violet.

however my excitement has been a bit tempered reading subsequent posts, particularly regarding the vehicle section. I was a little afraid this may happen in trying to combine what were originally two separate sourcebooks. Do they feature anything like Rigger 3 had such as transport aircraft, ships & Speedboats, heavy trucks/road trains, executive helicopters etc...? At the very least, is the Wanjina back? It's also a disappointment hearing that the vehicle mod rules appear to be poorly written. Sounds like it means a lot more work on the GM's part just to add a bit more colour to a campaign.

Don't have the PDF yet (my "fixer" with the plastic has my order though so I should have it by next week's session) so I will reserve any praise/critique of my own until then.
Earlydawn
As mentioned, school books wiped me out, so I'll just ask until I can get my hands on some cash tomorrow. How're the martial arts, rules-wise? I've got an Akido black-belt in my group, will he be pleased?
Cardul
QUOTE (Kyoto Kid)
It's also a disappointment hearing that the vehicle mod rules appear to be poorly written. Sounds like it means a lot more work on the GM's part just to add a bit more colour to a campaign.

I don't know...I always used the mod rules as "Standard and easy mods." I still remember way back when I was playing a Rigger the first time, and I had a Eurovan..the GM back then used a "if you can explain how you do it, then, it does not matter if the rules say you can't" method...(Eurovan with the back section filled mostly with a Banshee vectored thrust engine....AKA The Eurovan from HELL!, though this was back with RBB, before FASA decided it was going to forever gimp the Eurovan because they wanted Runners to use the Bulldog)
Ryu
The aikido man will be very pleased. Very.

The vehicle mod rules are great in my opinion. Very free, yet not too powerful. The armed land vehicles can easily be build on the basis of either a GMC Bulldog or a Ares Citymaster.

The drone section is actually useful because it does NOT have a boring list of simple combat drones. For that, we already got four/five good choices with the main book.

I love the armor section!
Synner
QUOTE (Ryu @ Jan 27 2008, 02:00 AM)
The vehicle mod rules are great in my opinion. Very free, yet not too powerful. The armed land vehicles can easily be build on the basis of either a GMC Bulldog or a Ares Citymaster.

The vehicle (and gear) modification rules are indeed intended to be simple and freeform - in line with cyberware mods for instance. Vehicles/drones get a number of modification "slots" based on their Body (min. 4) and each modification presented uses up a number of slots. The rules (no less complicated than the Surgery rules in Augmentation) for modifying stuff on your own are also included. Definitely not seeing what's blurry about them...

QUOTE
Do they feature anything like Rigger 3 had such as transport aircraft, ships & Speedboats, heavy trucks/road trains, executive helicopters etc...? At the very least, is the Wanjina back?

Let's see:
transport aircraft: yes
ships and speedboats: yes
heavy trucks/road trains: yes
executive helicopters: yes.
Wanjina: no (it's been replaced by the Nimrod)

Just so we're all on the same page... A quick rundown of the ground vehicle section (this does not include security vehicles) of the Vehicle chapter gets you (note: each entry lists several comparable models on the market):
2 personal mobility vehicles (also cool for arcology usage)
2 racing bikes
2 monocycles
1 off-road bike
1 sub-compact car
1 sedan
1 SUV
1 all terrain vehicle
1 armored transport
1 pickup truck
1 off-road racing truck
1 RV
1 delivery van
1 bus
1 tractor trailer
1 transport hovercraft
(What you don't get is 3 sedans with minor variations to the stats).
BookWyrm
Must--have--preview!!!
arathian
So, was I the only one that saw the Bust-A-Move drone and immediately wondered how much plastic explosives would fit in it? Like, before I even read the description.

Also, anyone else get a chill thinking about a whole hive of insect spirits going Berserk after being dosed with KE IV?

And, how about a Cyberzombie using Sangre y Acero? It seems made to order.

Basically, this book has given me a ton of ideas.
Synner
Wow, two whole pages and still no one freaking about Manatech. Sheesh. Much ado about nothing it seems...
BishopMcQ
In a nutshell, the new Martial Arts rules require either a large investment of Karma or some BP expenditures. You buy a Positive Quality (5 to 20 BPs) to get access to advantages based on your form. Additionally, the quality allows you to purchase a limited number of maneuvers (similar to SR3 CC maneuvers) for the cost of a skill specialization.

I'm really fond of the system because it requires a large karma investiture and really separates out the Tae Kwon Do enthusiast from a hard-core TKD martial artist who has applied the combat form to a fighting style outside the dojo.

There is also more verbiage on when a martial arts specialization applies and when it doesn't.

Snipers just got a whole bag of new tricks too...

Edit: For Synner---ZOMG the MANATECH, GAME OVER MAN!! grinbig.gif

I'm actually looking forward to combining the Lucifer Lamps and Astral Pigments on my adept who hits the awakened rave scene.
Kyoto Kid
...Synner, Thanks for the info. Am looking forward to getting my PDF.

The Nimrod eh? Looks like I'll have to rename the the BAe/Marathon EC-45 from my RiS campaign to avoid confusion (yeah, I really got into some serious vehicle design, everything from the Mini Cooper to the massive Antonov AN-335).
JonathanC
I want this so bad! I can't wait until March!


...wait, is this a hardcover or a softcover? If it's softcover, I'm just gonna pick up the PDF, I think.
Bull
QUOTE (JonathanC)
I want this so bad! I can't wait until March!


...wait, is this a hardcover or a softcover? If it's softcover, I'm just gonna pick up the PDF, I think.

Last I'd heard, all of the Core Rulebooks will be Hardcover, which includes this one. smile.gif

Bull
JonathanC
Damnit! Now I have to wait...there are martial arts rules and stuff in there, right? If it was just a weapon catalog, I could justify just going with PDF, but...ah hell.
Vairdic
QUOTE (JonathanC)
...wait, is this a hardcover or a softcover? If it's softcover, I'm just gonna pick up the PDF, I think.

This is a Hardcover like Augmentation and Street Magic is, and like unwired will be.
Ancient History
QUOTE (Synner)
Wow, two whole pages and still no one freaking about Manatech. Sheesh. Much ado about nothing it seems...

There was some gushing over Wyrd Mantis Essence in the other thread. Personally, I think people haven't found K-10 yet.
Ryu
eek.gif
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