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cndblank
QUOTE (Scope_47 @ Aug 7 2008, 01:39 PM) *
Jane would be basically a get-away driver and mostly a face... so-so in combat, but fairly squishy (style over substance, so she'd be just wearing a bomber jacket for armor, giving her 3/3... 4/5 with her aviator's helmet)...


One word for Jane.

Form Fitted Armor.

Second Word

Expert Skill Wires (can spend Edge to reroll). Cause there is nothing like just downloading the skill you need. wink.gif



One the Face side, we do need a Vamp. It would be a good secondary for Jane.

I'm not spot wielded to being a Face. Easy does have a good Charisma but he could just be good with leg work.

I just one to make sure that we are clear on who the primary face is.
Scope_47
Hmmm... I had another idea... maybe Jane isn't a 'has-been' at all and is still globally famous (with the fame quality)... (disguised during runs of course) so she'd be like Face-Man from the A-team and use her fame (though Face-Man impersonated famous people) to bypass security moving the team through national borders:

Security: "Miss... Miss... you can't... oh my... I'm sorry, I didn't realize..."
Jane: "What's wrong, hon, we've got a shoot in an hour... can't you hurry this up?"
Security: "But... those people... and... and machine guns?"
Jane: "What? The stunt men and props? I could tell you, but you'd have to file with the studio and sign an NDA... and if you delay shooting, the director will..."
Security: "Oh no... go on through... move along..."

ROFL

You think that that could work?

-Scope
BlackHat
I didn't see any other rigger ideas proposed, so I don't think there is a lot of overlap with the stunt driver. I don't think there is any with Sarge, either - except that depending on which PCs people decide on, we have as many as 5 combat-characters (no idea who is ranged and who is melee spec'ed).

Of course, with 9 PCs, there is bound to be some overlap. I'm not too worried about it. In fact, it'll be kind of fun if we had a group that had multiple mages, or more than one hacker (since those are the guys usually flying solo). You can never have enough combattants, either.
Oenone
Yes indeed. Form fitted armour is awesome.

Even Weaver can use some and she only has a body of one. (Got to love the rounding down part of the rating score).

Incidentally given that PBP games are likely to be slower (unless you plan to give downtime gaps) I suspect you might want me to change Weavers In Debt flaw for something else?

(It can always be used as a source of additional trouble if you're okay with it, like angry men wanting to have 'words' with her if she's out of the city too long).

I ask as I don't want it to seem like a load of free BP and Nuyen because of the way the PBP game format works. (She was origionally planned for tabletop game, where the flaw would be less open to abuse).

I can change it fairly fast by dropping a lot of gear and shifting a few odd points about. So if you'd like me to just say the word. smile.gif

Edit - And the film star idea might work, it might not (depends on the guards and the fake ID's I guess) but either way it would be great from an RP point of view!
cndblank
That would be different.

Runners using a Simsense Production as cover.

We can be the independent "Arty" production company the Janes uses to make "real" art, after doing a Mega Block buster to line her Cred account.

Thing is most runner would run away from a big Star because of all the media attention.

How about she looks like a famous star. REALLY looks like her.

Easy.. would be easy to change so play who you want.
Ears
@Scope_47:
Yeah, I think Jane sounds like a real cool member of the team and that fame idea sounds like an even cooler addition. As for vehicles, in addition to 'acquiring' vehicles a 9 person team should always have enough ways of renting them from shadowy sources if we all have contacts in more than one city.
Perhaps Jane herself could know one mechanic-type character with further ties to vehicle-mad persons both in America and Asia?
cndblank
Just to throw a few ideas out....

In 2070, it is all about SimSense experience. Does your simsense recording make a strong impression with sharp clear sensations and do your emotions feel real? That part can't be faked. That part means more now than just being one of the beautiful people.

The Studios can take someone who can record a very Sharp SimSense experience with all the right emotions and make them look like who ever they want. Add skillwires and entensive training and you too can be a star.

Maybe Jane started as a stunt woman and was discovered?

Perhaps a Starlet disappeared/was extracted and they took her stunt woman and did her up so that she could fill in for a few days doing appearances while they tried to retrieve their Star.

Perhaps she turned out to be more talented than the original. Or maybe the Studio decided to bluff it out with their new discovery.
Oenone
I'm going to go with Weaver as my choice then, if no-one objects?

Mainly as her background makes travelling around a lot more likely than for Fornax, who has city specific revenge issues in mind.

If anyone has any advice on a better set of complex forms for a Networker to use then I'm open to suggestions! (This is my first Technomancer build attempt).

Below is the short background for her. This time done in Spoiler tags which should work.....

[ Spoiler ]
Oenone
Ooooooooooooo Am I the only one who thinks SimSense recording equipment would be an excellent excuse for someone to bring along one of the PAB units from Unwired?

Hook it up to some geniune SimSense gear we'd need to have kicking around and we can have all kinds of fun.

Nothing like portable brainwashing gear to make life interesting.
cndblank
Yeah, we can brainwash the more visible member of the team so they don't know they are shadowrunners. wink.gif
BlackHat
QUOTE (Oenone @ Aug 7 2008, 04:03 PM) *
If anyone has any advice on a better set of complex forms for a Networker to use then I'm open to suggestions! (This is my first Technomancer build attempt).


Depends on what you want the technomancer to be good at. I think the common-use CFs you took are good. You pretty much can't live without those. I wouldn't leave home without stealth and exploit, either. Spoof is useful. ECCM is also useful for technomancer, if you expect jamming (with a signal rating of 3, a mediocre jammer could dumpshock you). Attack and Shield look like good picks if you want to be able to hold your own in cybercombat (which I suspect you do). Other technomancer builds I have seen would opt to thread those as necessary, and cross their fingers that they don't get into cybercombat much (really, cybercombat comes when your stealth or exploit programs fail you).

I personally rally like the simrig CF option in Unwired, but I dunno if it would be worth dumping any of your existing choices. Its easy to thread. I've also liked the idea of a TM who has a tacsoft CF (with SimRig) - which Unwired suggests is possible.

if you wanted to focus on any one aspect of hacking, there are maybe some changes I would make, but in general, those picks look solid.
Oenone
Cybercombat is pretty important as none of the Networker Sprites are able to fight. Which is the main downside of taking it.

The point about ECCM is noted, I suspect I'll have to thread it whenever I think jamming might be a risk. :/

I didn't know you could do Simrigs or Tacsofts, but I'll keep them in mind. Again for threading when needed.

If they're solid looking I might stick with the ones I've picked then, as I wanted the flexible approach. Able to hack systems, obtain data and suchlike. But still able to defend herself without taking all the drain in the universe.

Does anyone know if Shield works out better than Armor? From the rough math I did in my head I think it might just be a little better, but I'm not 100% sure.
crizh
City?

I'm easy, Seattle or Hong Kong.

Voodoo was built for Seattle, Granny was built for Seattle but shoe-horned into Hong-Kong and actually fits kinda nice there.

Granny is a Dronomancer who avoids 'meat' stuff almost entirely, I was actually thinking of having her move up to the full-immersion lifestyle when she could afford it. So, technically, she could be based in Hong-Kong but still participate in runs anywhere she can buy a drone or have one shipped to.

The group seems pretty Matrix heavy ATM although that could work in our favour. Matrix is boring because one PC can hog the action for ages but with three or four hackers/TM's working together it might actually be quite cool.

We do seem pretty Mana-light though. Voodoo is a fairly heavy possession-summoner who might round out that side of the team nicely.

Depends on what you guys think really.

On the subject of a 9 man team. It strikes me that a team of that size is actually starting to move into mercenary company territory which could be quite interesting.
cndblank
QUOTE (crizh @ Aug 7 2008, 04:31 PM) *
On the subject of a 9 man team. It strikes me that a team of that size is actually starting to move into mercenary company territory which could be quite interesting.


Yeah it is, but there are real advantages to a larger team.
Various members might be part timers supplementing their income, if they are not totally in to the Shadows.
Any time you split up, it is nice to make sure each subteam has a face, a rigger, a hacker, a mage, and enough muscle.

Having enough muscle to properly keep an out perimenter or prevent the mage, hacker, or Rigger from getting fragged while busy else where is always worth while.

The one real advantage PBEM has over Face to Face besides not needing to be face to face is that a GM doesn't need to keep the group together to keep the pace going.



Oenone
And you don't need to struggle to find enough chairs, dice and table space for everyone playing. Which is always a bonus.
Scope_47
I'm working on statting out Jane now...

Right now, I have her with actual skills for Athletics,Influence,Disguise, and Intimidate. I used the Gear quality from RC so that she could buy Move-By-Wire 2 (Mainly for the reaction bump and skill-wires 4), and gave her some personalized/Pluscoded rating 4 skillwires for Pilot(ground,water,aircraft), Pistols, and Exotic Weapon Monowhip. Also gave her all the social-oriented bio/cyber that wasn't forbidden (no Tailored Phermones... she pretends to follow the rules). Gave her the expert system and a 3 edge as well.

So, she's actually got (not taking fame into account at all) a 14-dice pool for all the social skills (except intimidate, that's only 13), 11 dice with her pistols, 15 dice for those three pilots (counting +1 AR) so long as she is driving 'in the meat', and 16 dice to gymnastic dodge. Add to that the leather jacket and personal armor, and she has about a 6/6 armor rating (nothing to write home about, but okish). She still only has a 3 body and 2 willpower though.

Problem is, I ran out of money for vehicles (even after using the 'Born Rich' quality to heighten the BP for gear cap)... so I'm trying to figure out whether to make her less of a face, or just try to rely on borrowing or leasing vehicles from contacts (or con-jobbing for them as needed)

Oh, and two contacts - The Producer (haven't named him yet - but the idea is that he produces her Sim-series, but figured out that a better emotive track could be produced if he put her in actually dangerous situations and merged those emotive tracks with her actual acting in post-production... so he's kind of her fixer) L5, C6. and Prop-Man-Stan, a production logistics manager (after all, action-movies based on shadowrunners need almost the same types of gear that actual shadowrunners need... just don't forget to replace the blanks with real bullets and you're good LOL) at L 4 or 5 and C6.

Ok, thoughts, comments? Think I'm going the wrong direction, or am I on track?

- Scope
BlackHat
I really like all of that. Make sure she's got the licenses for all of that jazz . Reminds me of a scene in Chasing Amy.

"Well this right here - she full of blanks, okay. And Opiate gets all sorts of legal clearances before I go on."
"Your publisher condones these theatrics!"
"Condones? Honey, they insist. I need to sell the image to sell the book ."
crizh
QUOTE (BlackHat @ Aug 7 2008, 11:30 PM) *
I really like all of that. Make sure she's got the licenses for all of that jazz . Reminds me of a scene in Chasing Amy.

"Well this right here - she full of blanks, okay. And Opiate gets all sorts of legal clearances before I go on."
"Your publisher condones these theatrics!"
"Condones? Honey, they insist. I need to sell the image to sell the book ."


Aw, hell, now I have to break out the DVD's and have a Kevin-Smith-a-thon....
Scope_47
@Gremish

Do you allow second-hand bio/cyber at character gen? RAW is unclear on whether it would be allowed or not.

- Scope
Oenone
Okay I just spotted I'd got some of Weavers gear wrong. So I decided to do a quick edit, I've also dropped the Infiltration skill entirely because with a DP of 6 (only in Urban areas) she wasn't going to be fooling anyone. Instead I've bumped her ability to Compile Sprites for added Matrix potency.

Also added are a whole bunch of sensors to aid with her Private Investigator history. (Oh and to generally be useful too)

[ Spoiler ]


If that's okay I'll write up a bit more detail for the background and flesh out the contacts a little. Consider any mention of Local in terms of knowledge skills to relate to whichever city we begin in.

I've done a quick edit to sort the contacts out on this sheet. The info for them will also go in with the extended background.
This should now be totally complete as of the 8th of the 8th. (I fixed the Virtual contact to include an area and drop the resources a bit). Again with another edit. This time to change Registering for something more useful.

And the very last edit. (Unless I need to change In Debt) in which I re-adjust the virtual contact to it's final form.
Scope_47
Ok, I've got Jane statted out... let me know what you guys think. I'll finish a full backstory in a bit...

This version assumes that its OK to use 2nd hand cyber/bioware at char-gen

[ Spoiler ]


- Scope
DWC
Vice, stated out.

Stats
[ Spoiler ]


Skills
[ Spoiler ]


Resources:
[ Spoiler ]


Contacts:
[ Spoiler ]



Edit: 07-Aug-2008: Consolidated Social skill points into Influence Group and Intimidation.
Edit: 08-Aug-2008: Fleshed out contacts and reformatted list for readability.
Edit: 08-Aug-2008: Added Records on File negative trait and Biocompatibility trait. Reduced cyberware to standard grade. Added Orientation System, more Actioneer suits, and some completely random odds and ends like a single mortar round, a chainsaw, and a 40oz bottle of Hurlg that someone left in his fridge.
Edit: 11-Aug-2008: Adjusted background to put character in Seattle.
Edit: 11-Aug-2008: Relocated character back to Hong Kong. Traded 32BP for karma, removed Record on File quality, and increased Intuition from 3 to 4.
Glyph
Looks good. I was worried that she sounded too much like Dancer, but they are actually different enough to function on the same team. I was leaning more towards Dancer, because the other awakened characters seemed to all be mages or mystic adepts, so a good close combat adept would be a good fit for the group.

Dancer is close to (re)done. I tweaked her a bit, reducing her dancing ability (which even in the L.A. game was overkill) and adding some of the goodies and options from Arsenal. All I really have left to do is add the freebie contacts that we are getting.


@Gremish:
I have a quick question about the monowhip skill. When I took it, I assumed that you could use a monowhip to parry like any other melee weapon. I see it as whirling the weapon around defensively, just as I see people parrying against a monowhip by blocking the attacker's forearm, batting the tip away, etc.

I want to be sure that you agree with that, though, because if she can't use her monowhip defensively, she has a huge hole in her defenses (gymnastics is really only any good against ranged combat), and I will have to drastically re-work the character.
Glyph
@DWC:
Cool character, but for the exact same cost as Con: 4, Etiquette: 3, and Negotiation: 3, you could buy the Influence skill group at rating: 4. That would raise Etiquette and Negotiation by 1 each, as well as giving him the Leadership skill at 4 (which would fit someone with an armed forces background).
DWC
QUOTE (Glyph @ Aug 7 2008, 11:31 PM) *
@DWC:
Cool character, but for the exact same cost as Con: 4, Etiquette: 3, and Negotiation: 3, you could buy the Influence skill group at rating: 4. That would raise Etiquette and Negotiation by 1 each, as well as giving him the Leadership skill at 4 (which would fit someone with an armed forces background).


Nice catch, thanks. I was trying to fit Leadership in there, but was having issues with finding the points without gutting core skills.
Intro
So, here's background on wilderness guy. He's almost statted out, just have to juggle the last few BPs around. The description got rather longer than I expected - I guess I just had a lot to write for this guy. In terms of role, when he's not out in the wilderness, he's a longarms-focused shooting adept. I haven't quite decided on whether he should be sport rifles or shotgun specialized - close-to-medium range or long?

[ Spoiler ]
Oenone
If you're going Wilderness I'd say take the Sport Rifles. Most of the shotguns which are 'better' in terms of doing damage aren't really the sort of thing you'd take out hunting (and thus have a convincing fake license for).

You can always take something like the Defiance T-250 along for a back up weapon, it's the short barrel shotgun from Arsenal. Carry it with a sling under a lined coat and people are actually at a penalty (of either -1 for ready to use or -2 for unready) to see it (and it does a nifty 7P with solid shot with heavy pistol range).
BlackHat
First draft of Malloc.I (name might change, but its the best I could come up with). Will flesh out the background (all 18 months of it), and reword the concept, a little later. Might rearrange some resources.
[ Spoiler ]
Oenone
Okay. I've done the background and contacts for Weaver. I've updated the character sheet to include the new and updated contacts info. Although that's mostly just a case of putting the numbers in for the Virtual Contact. I also tied the In Debt flaw into her contacts, to make it a bit more of a disadvantage to her.

[ Spoiler ]


Edited to adjust Virtual Contact.... Again.
Intro
QUOTE (Oenone @ Aug 8 2008, 07:29 AM) *
If you're going Wilderness I'd say take the Sport Rifles. Most of the shotguns which are 'better' in terms of doing damage aren't really the sort of thing you'd take out hunting (and thus have a convincing fake license for).

You can always take something like the Defiance T-250 along for a back up weapon, it's the short barrel shotgun from Arsenal. Carry it with a sling under a lined coat and people are actually at a penalty (of either -1 for ready to use or -2 for unready) to see it (and it does a nifty 7P with solid shot with heavy pistol range).

Well, you'd wouldn't consider them hunting weapons today, but people might be more lenient about such things when you've got meter-plus scorpions running around. That was my thinking about how an automatic shotgun might fly with authorities.

And yeah, I've got the Defiance already. The short-barreled version only does damage 5P, though - it's basically like a heavy pistol that uses the shotgun skill.
BlackHat
QUOTE (Oenone @ Aug 8 2008, 09:22 AM) *
Although that's mostly just a case of putting the numbers in for the Virtual Contact.


Did you get the impression that for virtual contacts you didn't have to additionally pay for the area of influence? I read it that way the first time, then looked back at it and thought you might, and now I'm not sure. Given that almost every matrix organization is going to be worldwide, that's a hefty 6 extra points to have to pay.
Oenone
QUOTE (Intro @ Aug 8 2008, 02:36 PM) *
Well, you'd wouldn't consider them hunting weapons today, but people might be more lenient about such things when you've got meter-plus scorpions running around. That was my thinking about how an automatic shotgun might fly with authorities.

And yeah, I've got the Defiance already. The short-barreled only does damage 5P, though - it's basically like a heavy pistol that uses the shotgun skill.


Ah, indeed it does my mistake. Still a really nice gun though! Especially if you stick some Shock-Lock rounds in it.

Yeah I guess you could work it that way, I was mainly going off the shotguns all seeming very much military/police in market from the descriptions.

If you're taking the Defiance already then from a DP point of view you might be best taking Shotguns. Because then if you got the shotgun speciality it'lll also cover your back up weapon. So you'd be getting more for your BP's than if you went Sport Rifle.

If funds aren't too limited maybe you could grab one of the cheaper rifles as well? The Remington 950 is pretty cheap and does a decent 8P damage.
Oenone
QUOTE (BlackHat @ Aug 8 2008, 02:55 PM) *
Did you get the impression that for virtual contacts you didn't have to additionally pay for the area of influence? I read it that way the first time, then looked back at it and thought you might, and now I'm not sure. Given that almost every matrix organization is going to be worldwide, that's a hefty 6 extra points to have to pay.



Hmmm it's not exactly clear is it.... I was going off this bit from RC

"Make sure to apply the modifiers for the number of members in the network and the Matrix resources of the network from the Group Connection Modifiers Table (p. 124) when calculating the Connection rating"

Which doesn't mention anything about buying the area of influence bits from the group connection modifiers table, implying they don't count for a virtual contact.

If it turns out you do need to spend the extra 6 I'll just ditch the contact and swap it for something like a rigger / technomancer / hacker / blogger in each city. Sort of breaking the group down into a few of the members she knows better.
BlackHat
That's the line I read that made me swing hte other way. biggrin.gif The only thing that made me swing back was the idea that you could have a group of matrix users who have a broad matrix influence, but who all physically live in the same city - and the other side of the coin would be a group of similar size, similar matrix power/influence, but those members are spread out throughout the world.

I guess its really a GM call, but I'd like to know the answer too, so I can adjust my virtual contact, too. biggrin.gif
Oenone
Yeah it's really not the best bit of RC is it! smile.gif

I was assuming Virtual contacts give no physical aid. Which would explain why you don't have to pay for the location side.

And yeah GM call would definately help clear it up. biggrin.gif


Hmmm checked out the RC Errata thread and found this bit, which I've edited to add in.

QUOTE (Synner @ Aug 6 2008, 02:56 PM) *
Warezhouse 24 is missing because it was a late addition intended to complement the material on the Cracker Underground in Unwired and not part of John Dunn's initial writeups.

Warezhouse 24 would be Connection: 3(13) (Base 3 + Membership 2 + Area 1 + Matrix 2) - I've made the Area of Influence limited to the Warezhouse 24 base of operations node hence only Area 1, however, were one to use the Warezhouse to recruit talent or hire botnets Area might even be considered global. As a rule of thumb the Area of Influence of a Virtual Contact should be in line with the group's actual function and effective ability to implement its agenda. This stat should be discussed with the gamemaster when taking a Virtual Contact.


Which probably means that I need to re-do the cost for the network. (I figure as my Virtual contact is just used for advice, information and suchlike rather than botnets and hacking it'd only count as area of influence 1 right?)
cndblank
Easy

Easy is a utility mage specializing in physical illusions. He grew up in the streets of Detroit. He lost his parents early on.

He and his big brother survived the first part of his life due to a street mission and he still has a fond place in his heart for such places.

They taught him to read and he loved it and the old 2D movies that they kept running in the back room on an old set. Being a skinny kid who like to read meant he had it rough despite the best efforts of his big brother who had to work long hours to support them. Then his brother disappears during the crash. He ran the streets for a while then he awakened at age 13.

An old burnt out mage called LNM saw what he had and taught him the basics for a cheap box of wine each visit. He was a bitter old coot, but liked how easy Easy picked up spells. Easy learned spell after spell while, his mentor told him about working in Hollywood. He especially loved the illusions and dreamed of becoming a special effects mage in Hollywood. He supported them by doing street magic for a while.

Then he got snapped up by a Corp scholarship program to a private school and was all set to get a free ride through college and a cushy job as a wage mage when he graduated. He tried to get LNM to come of the streets, but he refused. So he arranged with an old friend to deliver food to him weekly and to see that his mentor always had a hot meal, a shower, and a bed any time he wanted at the local mission.

Then one night his LNM came to him astrally and told him he had been murdered. They had offered him a nice chunk of cred and a power focus in return for using his special effects magic to help blackmail a senator. Just the thought of being able to touch the magic was too much to resist. His Mentor described the power focus in loving detail The night after the job was done, he had a heart attack but he had been up and managed to go Astral before he died. His “Employers� showed up about an hour later. For what ever reason he decided to hide. They made all the right noises but the way one of them was looking astral and how they took the power focus back, made him suspicious. He decided followed up on his Johnson and had his suspicions confirmed. They poisoned him (so what if an old wino has a heart attack) to clean up loose ends and get the power focus back. He needed Easy to arrange a meeting with a couple of reporters and time was very short. He wanted to clean his slate as much as possible before going to the other side. Easy did it and his mentor warned him to be careful and said good bye. The story caused a couple of bit players to be hung out to dry and the scandal caused the Senator to lose his reelection campaign.

A few weeks after he graduated the private school, he started a summer internship at his sponsoring corp before heading to college. It was mostly a way to get the talent used to the corporate culture, put some cred in there pockets, let them try out a company car, and give them the taste of living in a nice condo in the corporate conclave. While there he passed a major executive and his entourage leaving by helicopter. The wage mage was carrying a power focus. THE power focus. He caught Easy staring at him and the focus. The wage mage was a real shark in a silk suit.

That night he couldn’t shake it. It was like the wage mage knew what he was thinking. Or knew that the power focus was covered in blood and he had something to do with it. The wage mage didn’t have that look of some one who is caught buying stolen goods either. Finally he decided he just had to know.

So he very carefully cleaned up his room and left the corporate enclave for a night on the town. He got a friend of his to connect him to a real hacker and paid for some deep research. A little digging and he knew it was no coincidence. Nothing solid, but all the players had too much career advancement at stake, for them to not be behind it. He never went back. The old Easy had a crash and ended up in the Detroit River.

He as an easy mark once, but never again.
Magic is his only edge, so Magic is what he is going to master.
And when he has, he is going to right some wrongs.
cndblank
I trying to do a generalist (except for his spell casting where he is pretty gifted).

Any problem with me trying out the Karma Character building system in the RC for Easy?

It lets you have a lot more rating 1, 2, or 3 skills.
BlackHat
According to the RC, the three methods of character creation are balanced, but not equivalent. I'd prefer that Gremish picked one and everyone uses it, but I don't particularly care which one (had been going with the assumption of 400BP). If we have the option to pick which one we use, individually, I think things would get out of hand (and also require a lot more bookkeeping on the GMs part).

I'm not wholly opposed to the idea, though, if Gremish likes it. Starting out with some karma to spend would be great for a lot of character types, actually.

Edit: Major problem with using the priority or karma based options across the board is that not everyoen has this book yet.
cndblank
QUOTE (Intro @ Aug 8 2008, 08:36 AM) *
Well, you'd wouldn't consider them hunting weapons today, but people might be more lenient about such things when you've got meter-plus scorpions running around. That was my thinking about how an automatic shotgun might fly with authorities.

And yeah, I've got the Defiance already. The short-barreled version only does damage 5P, though - it's basically like a heavy pistol that uses the shotgun skill.



I have to agree there. The deep wilderness is dangerous. You almost need an auto shotgun loaded with buckshot and a 20mm Cannon to be safe.

When you got some paranormal creature chasing you, you need to be to offer some serious discouragement.

The other option is to get a good semi auto shotgun and have it modified to burst fire. It looks like a hunting weapon but doesn't fire like one. Especially if it won't even admit to burst fire unless you have the right access code.
cndblank
QUOTE (BlackHat @ Aug 8 2008, 12:27 PM) *
According to the RC, the three methods of character creation are balanced, but not equivalent. I'd prefer that Gremish picked one and everyone uses it, but I don't particularly care which one (had been going with the assumption of 400BP). If we have the option to pick which one we use, individually, I think things would get out of hand (and also require a lot more bookkeeping on the GMs part).

I'm not wholly opposed to the idea, though, if Gremish likes it. Starting out with some karma to spend would be great for a lot of character types, actually.

Edit: Major problem with using the priority or karma based options across the board is that not everyoen has this book yet.



Some Karma would be nice.

I mean spending 4 BP on a level 1 skill hurst when you could get a level 2 skill with 8 Karma. Same for specialization.

The easy option is let players turn in up to 25 to 50 build points for double that in Karma.
cndblank
I'm looking at the Hermetic tradition and they don't get a lot of love, now that Intitution and Logic have been divided.

The Intitution and Charisma based traditions sure have it better.

BlackHat
I'm not sure what you mean. Charisma-based traditions, I get, because they also use charisma for summoning. I'm not sure how intuition-based traditions are any better off than logic-based ones.
Intro
QUOTE (cndblank @ Aug 8 2008, 01:33 PM) *
The other option is to get a good semi auto shotgun and have it modified to burst fire. It looks like a hunting weapon but doesn't fire like one. Especially if it won't even admit to burst fire unless you have the right access code.

Yeah, I've been thinking about that. I'm at work now so i can't look over Arsenal, and that's what I'll probably end up doing if I can come up with the right mix of mods.

QUOTE (cndblank @ Aug 8 2008, 01:36 PM) *
Some Karma would be nice.

...

The easy option is let players turn in up to 25 to 50 build points for double that in Karma.

Some karma is nice, but that much could be a problem. I mean, mages could initiate a half-dozen times. If you don't want initiated characters and are just mixing the BP and karmagen systems, that seems like it could get a little out of hand. If we want to add some karma to the BP system, keep it 400 BP and then add a dozen karma or so on top of that, so mages could initiate once with an ordeal, or so. I also agree that we shouldn't mix chargen systems. However, if we want to do it based on karma for everybody, it should be easy enough, since karma costs are in the BBB, and there's not too much to it beyond that, if I recall rightly.
cndblank
QUOTE (BlackHat @ Aug 8 2008, 12:47 PM) *
I'm not sure what you mean. Charisma-based traditions, I get, because they also use charisma for summoning. I'm not sure how intuition-based traditions are any better off than logic-based ones.


Now a high logic is good for academics and tech skills, but you need Intuition for Inflitrate, Perception, Disguise, and the like.

So the Charisma traditions can talk their out out of trouble. The Intuition traditions can see the trouble coming and hide from it.

The Hermetic.... Doesn't have much options other than trying to bore them to death talking academics and tech manuals.

Before they divided the stats, the hermetic would at least have a good perception which was always useful.

And when only the hermetic could bind spirits, he could at least bring more spirits to the fight, but now the other traditions can do that.

So the poor Hermetics needs to stay in the class room unless he is going astral and can use his logic for a high astral agility.


cndblank
QUOTE (BlackHat @ Aug 8 2008, 12:47 PM) *
I'm not sure what you mean. Charisma-based traditions, I get, because they also use charisma for summoning. I'm not sure how intuition-based traditions are any better off than logic-based ones.


Yeah, insult to injury. Maybe the Tradition stat should determine how many spirits a summoner can bind.
BlackHat
Ă´.o

I think you're over generalizing things, but I see your point. There are more "useful" skills tied to charisma and intuition rather than logic, sure. But, I never really saw that as gimping hermetic mages, before. If you're going for being a generalist, I could see how it might (if you were goign to pick up face skills, you'd want to be a charisma-baed tradition, if you're picking up covert-ops skills, you'd want to be a shaman). Unless you're picking up build & repair skills, there isn't a lot of synergy with logic, I suppose.
Oenone
There's a bit about buying your meta-type as a quality (I think for infected and Surge characters only) but yeah it's not too complex. I've tended to find it produces more powerful characters though, at least it did when I tried convert my TM build into it earlier today. (Better stats, higher resonance and complex forms etc).

I personally don't mind whichever way we do it (although as I've finished using the BP system that'd get my vote), so long as it's not the priority system. Which I really really don't like for anything more than giving someone an introduction to making a Runner.

A bit of Karma added on top would be nice, but again I don't mind either way. All depends on the power level we're running at really.
BlackHat
I agree with everything you just said. Until Gremish weighs in, I'm going with the assumption that its standard 400 BP character creation (which, he actually called out in the original few posts).
cndblank
QUOTE (BlackHat @ Aug 8 2008, 01:25 PM) *
I agree with everything you just said. Until Gremish weighs in, I'm going with the assumption that its standard 400 BP character creation (which, he actually called out in the original few posts).




Well I'll ask about stuff, but like the name says I'm easy.

What ever the GM wants is fine.

Oenone
Bleh! I really need to stop making last minute edits of things... No more last minute changes for me. (I decided to swap Decompiling for Registering and change area +2 into area +1 and Loyalty 3) Everything is done done now, providing we stick with 400BP

Looking further into the Karma system build and it seems /everything/ gets a bit better except for knowledges which drop a fraction. Boosted body, agility and reactions give 9DP's for ranged combat. More points for the Influence skill group means the social side now has an average of 8DP instead of 6DP. Perception also bumps up a bit and there's enough free points for Infiltration and more Registering.

Yikes.... The Karma system really does let you make obscene characters. I don't even want to think how impressive an AI will end up under these rules without the huge BP cost for being an AI.
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