Thank you It's the first character I've made that's even qualified for cyberpsychosis since Augmentation came out. And I looked at the .07 essence, with almost all of it being headware or head-based bioware, and I just started wondering how much of his original brain is left... and what having that little of your brain would do to your personality.

As far as finishing his drones, I have a combat walker specced out, but it ends up costing almost a half-million nuyen, which means he can't really afford anything else beyond what he already has (and misc. minor gear). He also probably needs to own a facility to do all his modding in, which'll cost another 100k. Though, I can picture him interacting with his facility (and the drones that make it up) the same way Tony Stark does in the Iron Man movie... only with less humor. So I'll probably not include the expensive combat walker. There's two other anthroform drones, and he needs at least one if not both: One's the standard human-size one, the other's the assassin-type one. Not quite sure what I'm going to do with them, though. THe more I poke at them, the less happy I am. Maybe I'll go for a large collection of specialized drones rather than the more general anthroforms? :/

I do like that guy. I've always wanted to make a sort of super-specialized rigger-type, but I honestly haven't delved into the SR4 rules for it enough yet. But he does have a lot of personality there, even though the guy is heading down the spiral. I can somehow almost see him, if he went too far, just jarheading into his van. o.O

You know, even though I have never played a rigger, Asphalt: A Rigger's Philosophy is still my favorite Blackjack article.

Ok, I wrote this up tonight starting with a 400 BP character I have (and am currently using).
Hopefully I did all this right. I was using a SR Excel sheet and found a couple bugs *cough*about 12*cough* so bear with me. This character isn't meant to be scary at any one thing (see Bobson's troll), but be a more well-rounded character and still be effective. Some active skills (such as Negotiation) may seem useless, but Kingfisher does work as a bouncer at a bar, you need to know how to tell those unwanted guests that their tip isn't large enough to get in the door.

(Ok, now how do I get it from Excel to here? Hmm, this might work...print as pdf, then copy-pasta!)

Name: Kingfisher
Metatype: Drake (Oriental) / Human
Gender: Male
Age: Late 30s

ATTRIBUTES


ACTIVE SKILLS


KNOWLEDGE SKILLS


QUALITIES


MARTIAL ARTS


ADEPT POWERS


GEAR


LIFESTYLE


CONTACTS


INNITIATIONS


Backstory is a bit skimpy, it usually is. I'll deal with it more when it's NOT 4:30 in the morning. But there's bits and pieces floating around up there already. Er...4:45 in the morning. Damn my need to proofread.

Quick edit:

Thumbs up. Goes right along with "Kurt Vonnegut"s MIT commencement address.

If you used DamienKnight's latest version, report them on that thread. Otherwise, you might want to consider it. It's under much more rapid development than any of the other Excel sheets in this forum.


I like the character concept. 800bp makes for a really good bouncer I think your lacking a bit somewhere, though - it doesn't really feel like an 800 point char. I'd suggest throwing in some more negative qualities, and using the BP to flesh out the char a bit more (and I'm not sure why, given that you do have 4 really high skills). Wish I could be more specific... :/

It's a little bit late but i want to create a Technomancer Combat Oriented without Chrome.

I think i could make some good runner with the unwired rules.

Just a question : I build a Character with 400 BP and then give him 400 Karma, or I make him with 800 BP?

We haven't heard from Jake for a while, but since he said he'd let us know when it was too late and he hasn't... go right ahead

You make a 400+X BP character, then upgrade them with 400-X karma, where X is any number from 0 to 400
In other words, the extra 400 can be spent as either BP or karma.

I'd sent an email to the address I'd found on credits, but I reported them in that thread too, thanks for the link. Only two of the things I found hadn't been fixed between my version (early October) and the latest.



Heh, I'm already at 70 points of flaws.
Probably doesn't feel like an 800 point character because of how many stats he has maxed out: Str, Bod, Agil, React, Magic, Edge. He's in peak physical form for his species (and maybe just a bit more: Improved Attribute Agility = yes).

Keep in mind that with 8 magic Kingfisher can afford Improved Reflexes 2, which gives him 3 initiative passes. He's DAMN fast and his P93 has enough recoil compensation that he can fire off two short bursts each pass at 0* penalty (except the first, which he uses a simple action to declare dodge and then fires once).
*Second shot might be at a -1, but given that my 400 point version doesn't give a hoot about losing the 1 die, I don't think his super-powered cousin will either. And that's before unfolding the folding stock.

You're right. I'd missed how many stats were maxed out as well.

On your question about the Combat Monster negative quality, you can't buy hits for things like that. That rule is only for situations where the character is unlikely to fail and/or when the situation is non-threatening and non-stressful (see pg. 55 of the main rulebook). For this quality, it is still a possibility for this character to succumb, and obviously if it was a non-threatening situation the quality wouldn't even come up.

I wouldn't worry about it too much, though. Rolling 9 dice, you will get an average of 3 hits, so you should make a threshold of 2 most of the time.

Actually, page 55 says "exceptionally large dice pool (and is unlikely to fail) or when the situation is is non-threatening and non-stressful." (emphasis mine)

So if this optional rule is used, one could buy hits in a deadly dangerous situation, if the GM deemed the dice pool high enough.

Personally, as GM, I would want to see Combat Monster come into play, , and would ask for the roll.

Peter

Which is about what I expected: GM'll make you roll the dice, but the likelyhood of failure is decently small.

Made a few tweaks to Kingfisher and started work on his girlfriend/roommate. She feels complete, but with only 45 positive qualities and 30 points in negative, it feels like she could use a little more tweaking. No negative qualities that really give her a personality.

Oh, and I gave her the same Ritual Geas. While probably more interesting on an unattached character, this does make for a likely duo (they get the initiation together, of course!). Talk originally started with her as a shapeshifter, but none of the animals really clicked with being plausible, so it's an eastern drake double team. While built in a similar fashion, they are not twins; she's a magician (the two of them could probably storm a decent sized corporation without help).

I haven't looked into the new character types in RC yet, so it's fun to see a drake here.

One thing in Kingfisher's stats that interests me: I didn't use group initiation for Uncle Zola and Bongo Slade as I wasn't sure what groups Jake might have/allow. If we are allowed to use group initiation, Uncle Zola could sure use that extra 8 BP!

I have a group in mind that Bongo would have liked to start. Maybe I will post it here and see what folks think / Jake thinks.

Peter

Ditto for Sir Thomas. I'm not entirely sure what I'd do with more BP, though. Maybe another skill point somewhere...

Heh, yeah, I couldn't pick any of the groups in Street Magic as none of them were appetizing. But I did the group initiation because I needed that last 6 BP. That's how tight a drake's budget is (65 for race is a lot! Kingfisher built as a troll instead of a drake would actually be more powerful).

Ok, folks, here's a first second pass at a Magical Group that Bongo in his early life (ie. the original 400 pt. PC I have run a few times) dreamed of starting. The description is his view, ie. through the lens of a young man: 25ish, naive, idealistic, focussed. Feedback is appreciated.

"Children of Apollo"

Purpose:
To promote the use of magic in the performing and visual arts;

to extend the artistic reach and boundaries of metahumanity and to be the repository of the fruits of this effort;

to seek a synergy of metahuman and cosmic experience.

Graffitti on the wall of their base (Hall of Apollo): "Be in the Pocket"

Customs:

Performance, group and individual. Talent without expression is a waste.

Respectful and constructive criticism of members' work.

Spreading Art to all corners of the world.

Strictures:

Limited Membership - physical/Mystic adepts who follow the Artist's Way.

Exclusive Membership - What else would you want to join?

Attendance - bi-annual concert/show/performance at the Hall of Apollo, together with meeting of members - at the summer and winter solstices

Fraternity - 'cause we all need a place to flop sometimes

Dues - to maintain the Hall of Apollo, including safe repository for theses - middle lifestyle cost to the membership, split among members


*Thesis: - masterpiece work of art, Intuition + {artform skill} (8 + desired Initiate Grade, 1 week) Extended Test

-examples: musical composition, dance composition, stage play, painting, sculpture

-preferred as Ordeal for initiations

*******
@Glyph
Glyph, this group may be of interest to Syren. If Syren and Bongo were to have met in the past, they may have talked this over and decided to form the group, the two of them. This would be a great way for a nucleus of the above characters to form. And imagine the performances those two could hit the world with!

With the modifiers for Strictures, and say 1 month of planning, Bongo and Syren would have an Arcana + Logic (2) Test with a dice pool of 10 (11 for Bongo) + teamwork dice, which should have worked relatively easily. (Right, Jake?)

For Bongo, with 3 Initiations, with a thesis for each (yes, this requires a Test, but both Bongo and Syren are REALLY good in their respective artforms), the Karma cost for the initiations would drop from 48 to 35 (5 to form the group, plus 8+10+12). For Syren, with 4 initiations, it would drop from 69 to 49. That would allow each lots of cash to pay the cost of the Hall of Apollo, especially in the beginning when there was only the two of them, and leave a few points to add into their build pools. I don't know, say the upkeep took 50,000 nuyen each until their personal costs dropped to the point where regular, non-gametime runs covered their costs. That would leave Bongo with 3 more points, and Syren with 10 more points. I think that sounds fair.

Whaddaya think? More importantly, what does Syren think?

Syren, Bongo here. Whaddaya say we spend a weekend talking? I'd be happy to share Nahuatl, Cantonese and Japanese with you, if you would speak Sperethiel to me.

*******

EDIT: edited to reflect Syren's requests.

The group sounds good, but Kingfisher wouldn't be able to join: not an artisan. Oddly his girlfriend would fit right in, heh.

Hmm...I don't know if Group Initation would really help Azael at all. He's not a loner or anything, but looking over his character sheet again, I'm trying to think about what group he could possibly fit in with. If I can find something for him...then, maybe...

...unless he was the band's bouncer/bodyguard/roadie. He can certainly look big, intimidating, carry heavy stuff, and kick annoying stalkers football-style over the horizon.

Basher is pretty focused on his martial arts. Any group that he would consider joining would have to be pretty focused on upper-tier martial artists working to help each other improve - sparring, comparing techniques, etc. Gladio is the closest thing in the books to something he would join, but I don't see him as a competitive fighter in the sports sense, more as a street fighter, and he wouldn't like being a celebrity, either. I could see him and Azael starting a no-nonsense, martial arts-oriented group.


Syren, hmm. She would have no problems with the group's purpose or customs (although she would consider herself an entertainer first, and an artist second - she has little patience for self-indulgent modern art B.S. that only the critics like). I don't see her being okay with either the material requirement or the high dues, though. A thesis would be too personal to her, if she even did that as an ordeal, and she wouldn't see the point of the high resources for such a small group - middle resources means they have a nice place. High means they have a major headquarters and can provide living space to their members - she wouldn't see the point of either. Something like maybe exclusive membership instead of material link, and middle resources, and she would be join. Otherwise, she would probably see it as too big of a commitment.

The high resources thing was a guess on my part to cover the security for the theses that are stored there, as they can be used as magical links to the creators. Middle resources would be more than Bongo affords for himself, anyway. That would be just fine for him.

Exclusive membership is fine for Bongo, too. It actually wouldn't seem as much of a stricture for him, though, as he would not see any other kind of group as interesting. The material link thing would appear to him as being a way to make the magical connection in a way that is intimately connected to an artisan. Not a deal breaker, though. He can make his own compositions during initiation.

Yeah, I see Bongo as being less ... worldly?, cynical? ... than Syren. His first suggestion reflects that. A little negotiation never hurts, though. Bongo did dump the traditional route in favour of the streets, so the artsy-fartsy issue is not as important as simply playing music. He does still want to get THAT rhythm someday. though.

So, how does this look to Syren, then?

Peter

Yep, that's about where Kingfisher is. I'll see if I can scrounge up the BP for him to start the group.

*Math*

At the cost of 1 point in Athletics he has the karma o gett 1 rank in Arcana and 7 karma to throw at the group foundation. Provided that none of the negative dice pool modifiers are used he can get about 2 successes towards the check.

Quick writeup (very little flavor):

[Name in Process]

Strictures:
Attendance, Belief (Practice of Martial Arts), Dues (500 newyen/mo.), Limited Membership (Adepts)

Resources:
Middle, Certified Martial Arts Instructors (at discount), training dojo (no distraction penalty to learning), transportation.

Group accepts any adept or mystic adept who practices martial arts or wishes to learn (the quality must be picked up following first initiation as they are accepted into the dojo and begin martial training immediately with one of the groups tutors). While the path of the warrior is common among the adepts, not all of them take it. Their martial arts skills are put to the use each member sees most fit. Some seek fighting, some use it for self defense, others teach it. Each member is expected to show up to the dojo at least once a month for practice showing that you still adhere to the group's ideals (those undergoing training at a new maneuver are expected to show up two or three times a week for training). Once a month the group holds a friendly tournament between members, which while not mandatory is the day that most members arrive for their monthly meeting, most of these also enter themselves into the tournament.

I took karate lessons as a kid (14?), which is where I'm basing some of the numbers. If you're training you ARE coming in two or three times for about two hours a week to learn, no excuses. Once a month or so we'd do vs. fights with each other (and let me tell you, the 6 year old was freaking crazy to match up against; he'd just wail on you with his fists being about as high as your groin. He had good technique too). I'm keeping the dues low because I figure 10 members is feasible enough to cover the costs of a Middle level "lifestyle."

Middle level resources say 10% off ritual materials, I'm thinking this should extend to the cost for certified instructors as well: give adepts a good reason to join a group.

Transportation offered is not "we give you a car" but "we can pick you up and drive you to the dojo" carpooling for those characters who don't own a car of their own. GMs should treat this similarly to calling on favors from contacts of loyalty 3, "willing to be inconvenienced in small ways for the character, but will not take a fall for her," though the GM is free to rule otherwise depending on initiation level and other circumstances.

Yeah, she'd go for that. If Jake doesn't have a problem with char-gen group initiations and ordeals, the ten points would probably be used for one more point of Edge for her.

It's kind of an ironic name for the group, in a way. I played a character named Null in a forum game where the PCs were members of an anti-awakened group called the Sons of Apollo.

[Edit]
@Draco18s:
Yeah, that's a decent write-up. Fairly straightforward, but that would fit Basher pretty good - he wouldn't want anything to do with a group telling him how he should use his martial arts abilities - he's only concerned with getting better by training with people who are also good in martial arts. It's almost too inclusive, in a way. Basher would be more interested in a group of hardcore martial artists. It's close enough to his needs that he would join, though.

Hey, I think that kid was at my old dojo, too!

Peter

That's chilling.

I'm glad the Group sounds good to you. So, Jake, you out there? Can we spend some of the Karma points this way?

Peter

To be fair, Kingfisher can't create the group on his own...he's throwing, like 7 dice at a threshold of at least 2.



I suck at names (Kingfisher actually came from someone else in my current campaign). Name will come at some point, I'm sure.



Almost, yeah. I want it to be workable for a significant portion of the players who'd be looking for a group to join, because the only groups that exist that accept adepts are neigh impossible to get into and/or have dues that exceed most player's chosen lifestyle costs. I could change it so that only people who already posses martial arts knowledge could join, but I added that extra bit such that a character looking to join, but didn't have any martial ability could spend karma to initiate and then IMMEDIATELY spend karma to get the martial arts quality.

Given that there are only 3 levels of a martial arts, "hardcore" is going to be anyone who has any levels at all: it's 2070 and everyone totes GUNS for god sakes, who goes and learns BOXING?

Random thought:
You know how the Oath Stricture means that you take an oath and it counts as your first initiation's ordeal? What if we did the same thing with the Gesture Geas? Learn a martial arts discipline and it's your ordeal as a Gesture Geas, a literal combining of magic with fighting technique.

Given that a metaplanar quest gives enough karma to a character to initiate (and counts as an ordeal, thus making it cheaper anyway), would it be fair to say that you would make the learning test for the martial art (Arsenal 156) and that as it is your ordeal you end up with that discipline (and the advantage it gives you) for free? You still spend the karma to initiate, but not the 10 karma to get the 5 BP Martial Arts quality. As it is also your Gesture Geas, you have to be performing some aspect of that discipline to fulfill the terms of the geas. For example: if a character takes Aikido (Judo, Jujutsu) and gets +1 die for Full Dodge, then their gesture could be having declared an action as a dodge that round. Krav Maga could have a gesture of "having disarmed an opponent this round" or "taking aim." (The benefit a character chooses shouldn't have to be the gesture, as some don't work, however the gesture should be relative to the discipline chosen, up to the discretion of the GM. I.E. taking +1 die on Attacks to Knockdown for Aikido, but the gesture performed is taking a dodge action).

It's slightly more restrictive than a normal gesture geas*, but you do get the discipline for free.

*At least I think so, as the intent of the gesture geas is that you wave your hands around as a non-action as you cast your spells. Here I've imposed some kind of time-taking action (anywhere from the 1 free action/pass to a full complex action) that already grants some kind of other advantage, but allowed it to count as the gesture for anywhere from a pass to a round. So this might not be kosher.

Anyway, I love tinkering with rules, I generally come up with balanced ideas, though sometimes they need some outside input and tinkering. This was mostly random rambly thoughts.

I have a question :

For this kind of character who are great Runners, they have to be over-specialized and be the one in their stuff or be generalist?

It's for my Technomancer i try to build......


( And excuse me for my poor english, I'm french )

There are both types in this thread, I think. My character(s) are more generalists, that is, built with the same intentions that go into building a real playable character. Other's, such as Bobson's troll are highly specialized.

So how would this group feel about blade-based forms of martial arts? Sir Thomas could always use 14 karma back, and maybe even use them to buy a second rank of unarmed combat.

I like the sound of this. I'd be up to figure out one. I could totally see those two starting one like this. I was a bit late coming; it seems that a few things were worked out already, but reading through, it sounds quite good to me.

If we can spend the Karma, I could work with this, easily. I could try to come up with a few things for the group as well, given some time. Hell, if we could do this, I might be willing to scrounge up a few BP(it will be very hard, but i can try ) for Azael to get a point or two of Instruction. His Charisma is high enough as it is, and he could sort of function as a halfassed teacher.

Though for some reason, I'm getting the comical version in my head of a hugeass, Satyr legged elf punting neonates over the wall who don't block his attacks in a ''twinkle in the sky'' fashion, with Basher around the corner with a pile of other neonates who keep eating the Fist of Doom or something due to shoddy blocking.

On a more proper note, I think it could really work. Ill start trying to do a lil' BP juggling once we get the yes or no on this one, and again, think of a few other things. Middle dues might be ok, these guys don't seem uber-rich but not necessarily living under a dumpster, either. The ''dojo'' might be a recommanded, glorified gym of sorts(sort of Rocky-style place, perhaps.) The friendly monthly tournament is nice, as well. And I also don't see why blades wouldn't be welcome-martial arts that use blades, clubs, staves, or whatnot are just as much martial arts as boxing or kicking styles. The more styles, the better, IMO.

Blades and such are acceptable. Arnis De Mano or Sangre y Acero both focus on bladed combat.



You've got it pretty much nailed. The place I took lessons at started in a rented spot in a strip mall, though due to the rent increase it moved into gym and used one of the squash courts. I figure the place the group has is closer to the former with one wall covered in sheet-mirrors (the mirrors were nice).

Looking over the group, the second character I'm working on would fit in with two exceptions:

1) Magician and not an adept at all. I avoided it because Kingfisher is already an adept and I wanted them to be as dis-similar as possible.

2) I made her second initiation be the masterpiece, not her first. Not sure if the group would mind that she'd have her first initiation being a ritual geas (and if they'd object to the ritual itself or not). Done to match up with Kingfisher.

Her masterpiece will be interesting though. I have to work out exactly what it'll be, but it'll involve more than a little of the spell Trid Entertainment.

Trid-entertainment could certainly be a viable artform for the Thesis.

The Children of Apollo as currently envisaged would admit adepts and mystic adepts that follow the Artist's Way. I'm concerned that including non-adept magicians would incur the negative dice modifier during founding the group that comes from admitting multiple traditions. This could deep-six the group right from the start.

Any viewpoints on this issue?

Peter

Let me hit up the rules on groups again, I thought the dice modifier was for previous initiates.

Edit: got it. Had to break open core and see what they defined a tradition as. She'd not be all that much help in founding a group anyway. 5 dice before modifiers.

Second edit:
Looking at the rules I don't see why you'd ever found a group with more than 2 members. Just found it with the best two people for the test (threshold of 2) and then let the rest join AFTER. It also saves those other people 5 Karma each (edit: actually, no, there's still 5 karma to join, but the join test is easier, threshold of 1 +1 per 5 members).

Ouch. Well, hang on... Bongo has 4 dice before modifiers. I think the extra tradition thing makes broadening the membership base costly.



I think that with the teamwork rule, extra founding members could add enough extra dice to make up for the higher threshold. I haven't checked the math formally, though.

Peter

Only if they get 3 successes. Otherwise they put a burden on the main roller.

Anyway, I looked over my sheets and realized that I'd be saving all of 1 BP by joining a group, 2 initiations just barely covers the cost of joining, and neither character really had a use for Arcana, so they'd only join a group, not (help) make one.

It's better in the long run, of course, but at this stage, only marginally worth it.

These guys are supposed to be elite runners, so they should be a mix of both - very good at their main role, and not completely lost outside of that role. Being good at your main role actually means you shouldn't be over-specialized, since your main role will be more than one thing.

I will use Basher as an example. His specialty is unarmed combat. But he doesn't specialize in just hitting hard. He also has to roll a lot of dice to hit with, roll a lot of dice to defend with, have a high initiative, have lots of initiative passes, be able to resist damage when he is hit, have different martial arts maneuvers to use, and have a decent Edge. Outside of his combat role, he can still use small arms and heavier weapons, intimidate people, notice things, and be sneaky when he has to be.

A technomancer has a harder time being good in his main role, because technomancers have three skill groups of skills (the cracking, electronics, and tasking skill groups), complex forms, and submersion. Even with 800 build points, it costs a lot to be a decent technomancer. But you could still do more than simply be a technomancer. Maybe you could have the Chatty positive quality with decent etiquette and negotiation skills, and be a decent face when it is over the Matrix, or maybe you could have the first aid and medicine skills, and be able to be a medic for the group. Or even both.

Well, Jake appears to be giving us leeway for the moment, so I have updated the entry for Bongo Slade (post #137) to include Children of Apollo and to fix a few errors in skill modifiers.

Peter

So, looking at the Reputation section in SR4, p. 257, if we count the second 400 points as 'Karma earned', though we were free to use either BP or Karma, then these characters have Street Cred of 40, and therefore Public Awareness enough to have their own trid and sim personalities. That could be what Jake is suggesting.

Even if we count only the actual Karma points we spent, then we still have Street Cred that has enormous effect in the right situations. Take Bongo Slade for example. He spent 197 Karma, which gives a Street Cred of 20. That's a +20 dice modifier for appropriate Social Skill Tests.

Scary.

Peter

Actually, the character's Street Cred dice bonus can never exceed the character's Charisma.

Of course, Syren and Bongo both have fairly high Charisma. And Syren was pretty high to begin with (and the breakdown of her social skill ability doesn't include her empathy software, either), so adding street cred... yikes.

Ah, I missed that obvious last sentence in a paragraph all by itself. So the bonus is just hefty as opposed to obscene. Yeah, it will be fun seeing someone try to resist Syren's wishes.

Peter

I saw a character get up to Public Awarness of 10 (enough to get a movie made) during normal play. The GM did allow the player his final parting act (as the campaign ended) to star in said movie as himself (because Stray was the face and a believable liar).

My character, Jack, got shot by a space laser. You know...when Deus is firing bullets your way and you only have 1 box of health left, you'll do some pretty (ir)rational things.

But it was total worth it.

Notably, he starred as himself without the movie producers realizing this fact.

Touche, I forgot to relay that fact.

I found some arithmetic errors in Uncle Zola's stats, so I've fixed those and fleshed out his gear. See post #58.

Peter

So after checking out my two PCs, I had a look at the rest with a calculator in hand, and there are quite a few who have either not fully used their 800 points, or who have slipped over the 800 point mark.

Near as I can tell, Bongo Slade, Uncle Zola and Basher are right on 800 pts. Do you think Jake is waiting for us to get the arithmetic correct?

Speaking of Jake waiting for us, I see we are spread out across Europe and North America. I guess having a face-to-face game is out of the question, huh? (Oh, sorry, in Canadian that should be "eh?")

Peter

Actually, Jake has been dealing with unemployment, poor roommate relationships, and a wonderful long-distance girlfriend. Been a bit distracted.

Consider for a moment, Dog the Bounty Hunter, a recent fad. He's famous, his work is broadcast, and he's basically doing the work a runner team might be hired to do. Now insert targets who are, like I mentioned, toxic dragons, shedim, cyberzombies, free spirits... and imagine who can hunt them without the bullshit of hiding who they are. That's the point.

Care to say what each point total each character is at?

I mean, you did go through and do each of them...

I thought someone might be sensitive about arithmetic. Of the ones that had category totals, I counted:

Syren: 840
Azael: 803
Count Blacula: 827
Sir Thomas: 743 (no contacts listed)

The rest were either clearly not fully formed or had complete entries but no subtotals. I didn't want to go through item lists and Qualities etc. one by one.

Peter

Ah, I see. I wondered why you thought Syren was off. It probably is a bit confusing. When I put +20 for her Qualities, I meant that she gained 20 points back, not that it cost her 20 points. So she is at 800.

Ah...so ka.

Peter