Elves are rock stars and superstar athletes. People are attracted to charisma, beauty, and everything else. As long as the elf in question isn't a douche bag in terms of personality it is only natural to enjoy their company. This applies for Orks and Trolls as well. In general, and in many Shadowrun Fictional novels over the years, Orks and Trolls have been depicted in a favorable fashion over elves. The stereotypical Troll with a sunny personality, smile, and humble attitude in SR fiction is pretty much equal to the "Token Black Guy Movement." in 80s and 90s movies.

Also. Hatred is an emotion that destroys the person how is 'Hating' per say. In a work environment if someone is envious, spiteful, jealous simply because someone is born with more perks or other people seem to like them better, then it's on the person feeling the negative emotion.

Its a cutthroat satire. All you have to do to get promoted is hire deniable assets to knock the guy off.
Or better yet, just out perform him. Said deniable assets could be useful here.

Also, I would expect a great deal more demotions in such environs.


BlueMax

I can see how you might dispise an elf as one of the beautiful people but then the other view might be that charm can be turned on you:
Sure Bob seems to get by because management likes him so much, but he's just so nice I can't bring myself to hate him!

Remember people in the SR world do not know that elves have a +2 to their charisma. they just happen to be more attracive than humans. Geez you see it all the time in school and work-people who seem to get by on their looks alone, but they can only go so far before their lack of competance slams them down.

Look at the classic image of the HS cheer leader or football captain. supposed to be the top of their world but often nbot the birghtest bulbs.

Well, they could hire someone to help create an opening....

We do not talk about the fan girls. For that path leads to horrible things like yaoi fanfics or worse... mpreg!

Oh my god, you opened pandoras box, thank you KCKitsune

Uh... you're welcome?

This. Elves, dwarves, humans - what matters is how much money you have. The tech curve will cause race to matter nothing compared to wealth - heck, you will be able to change your race very easily in the near future of Shadowrun. Also, thanks to tech, most "inherent racial advantages" will be moot as well. A rich human or ork will look much, much better, and be more charismatic to boot, compared to a poor elf.

So, those not up on the social ladder will die early due to diseases and violence, no matter their race, and the rest will live forever, basically. And given cosmetic surgery and how cheap it is, I frankly don't see how anyone will be ugly in the current SR world unless they really can't afford 2K for biosculpting - 2K, folks, a month's low lifestyle - or choose to remain ugly. Anyone else will look as beautiful as they want.

It's the world of Last Action Hero - even the supermarket employees are models. The only ones who are ugly will be the lowest of the low - the ones too poor to even be able to afford 2K. And their ugliness will make them stand out, and easily be identified, so anyone who wants to fit in will not be ugly either, no matter how much they may despise it (hello, shadowrunners without a cause!).

So, I really don't see elves being much of a factor in SR. Not unless we pull a "plot device! Make elven longevity matter even though it's stupid!".

Biosculpting is cheap as dirt. You'll look 20 until you die - which, given leonization, will be a logn way off.

Let's face it, the old "I live so much longer, poor human" elven trait so popular in medieval fantasy and among fanboys was killed off by tech in SR together with elven chainmail and elven swords as anything to write home about.

I just used use Balors, they killed off elves that got too annoying. Now we just chuck in the odd force 15 free spirit and that generally sorts the bastards out.

You suppose that folk have that much choice in the matter. Corp A and Corp B can hire and fire whoever they like, seeing as they're not tied to archaic employment legislation. In fact they're more likely to hire from within the company. Sarariman Bob's little girl is all grown up, and has been indoctrinated in company loyalty for the past 16 years, do we pick her or Jack Random, the outside guy? Bob's daughter is already familiar with the company policies and structures, and quite possibly is already known by the people she will be working with. Jack may even have better qualifications on paper, but how reliable are they? I reckon Jack will be lucky to get employed at all.

Malfoy in the broom closet with Harry. While both wear vulcan ears.

Umm... What's mpreg?

Male Pregancy?

Eww...

But men cannot get pregnant. They are missing the right equipment... so... how could it happen... in SR? Augmentation implicitly says that a full male to female ovary transplant is not possible. And then how does insemination work? What about paternity?

It's a kinda Magic.
Gods in white and all that.
Watch that one Schwarzenegger Flick or something <.<

It was mentioned as part of fanfiction, Chrys. That's usually not concerned with reality. And I am just guessing it means "male pregnancy".

About going up in life.

Elves and AAA corps just make the dot com boom possible in about 100 years. Society goes in one direction and corps keep chugging away as if it was 2030.

Human beings have a superiority complex. For millennia we have been the top of the food chain. Consumerism and religion tell us that Earth is our personal playground. All of a sudden *bam!* we're sharing the planet with races that are prettier than us, stronger than us and live longer than us. Extinction becomes a very real possibility.

Do you imagine humans are capable of going into the long darkness with grace and dignity? Or are they going to fight, scream and claw for as long as possible?

*I've tried not to jump into my Sunday night character but dag nabit, you gave me material. May my fellow Sunday players forgive you*

Human beings are superior. For millennium we have maintained this world and fought for freedom and technological advances. Capitalism and free will have shaped this planet into a productive place of commerce. All of a sudden *bam!* a great disease struck many of our brothers and sisters. The mutants now mindlessly enact violence, hatred and evil against the positive progress of mankind. Extinction must be fought and our brothers must be cured. Through fire or Ares, we shall overcome.

God Bless the UCAS,
The White Dove

trog-lover. Go eat your dandelions somewhere else.

Gah, I hate her!

Metaguard add.

Shhhhhhhh.... it won't hurt at all. Just close your eyes and take a deep breath. Shhhhhhhhhhhh. Just let go.

*Cue Stravinksy's Rite of Spring*

We are not living in D&D land. Tech makes sure the divide will not be between elves and humans, but between rich and poor.

Wait. Are you certain we are not in D&D land? I always play Shadowrun as fantasy future. Tech now, tech in Fantasy are just tools. Tools that can be used for division, or any kind.

BlueMax

It's not like there are nations of elves or ghouls, Native American ork tribes, gangs of mini-Gandalfs, or multinational corporations run by dragons. Because those would be dumb ideas.

Yes, I am sure. Shadowrun's tech changes everything. Elven longevity is as affordable to everyone with the cash as is elven looks. Any inherent advantages of a race pale compared to what tech offers.

*Cold Hearted Section*
If only the game mechanics agreed with you. Its Stat + skill + bonuses. If race A has more of the Stat in question, they will always be ahead.

BlueMax

*fluffy stuff in character*
And what about the monstrous size of Trolls? A ghouls unique... diet? What about the dwarves who this document shows are poisoning yellow cake?
/me holds up some yellow cake
The dwarves are acting now with poisons they can resist to eliminate our kind and our children. We must preemptively strike before they kill us all.

--The White Dove

One of my favorite SR quotes:

"Racism, and percieved racism often do not make much sense."

Forget which book it was in though (One of the NAN books I think).

The average elven looks sure, but if you can have exceptional attribute & genetic optimization for charisma, then so can the elf. (yikes, an elf could theoretically have a 10 base charisma.)

The availability of technology does allow rich humans to outshine poor elves, but then it also allows rich elves to outshine everybody.

I see one wrong assumption here : job position is not just a function of age. You're asking too much money ? You're fired. You made a mistake ? You're fired. You do no grasp the latest technology just as well as the kids out of school ? You're fired. Elf CEO may not retire because of age, but they'll encounter the same troubles humans do (actually, older editions used to state humans have a better adaptation capacity than metas).

The difference between 1 and 3 is huge. The difference between 8 and 10 is... less. And the difference between 20 and 22 is... not really significant. Add human edge, and it's pretty much even.

So, really, elves, orks, humans - no difference if they are all rich.

Elves in the workplace are not really a problem. With their better than you attitude they tend to disregard the workplace rules that do not appeal to them. And in 2070 that is not a good idea. With the founding of the CLC (Corporatre Linebacking Corp) in 2003 by Terry Tate, and the mass influx of Trolls to this specific corporate job, many elves last less than 3 months in the average company. Through death or dismemberment they get whittled out. Dwarves on the other hand can take a hit. For reference see this:

CLC Recruiting Video

Mmmm... ambrosial troll buttocks.

Let’s look at what really makes up the basis of prejudice: pre-judgment. You take what you already “know� and use that to make a decision about something or someone regardless of, or by biasing, pertinent facts. You have pre-judged “trogs� or “tuskers� as being ugly, by which you mean “not like you� and not conforming to your own standards of beauty. Trolls tend to be somewhat more outré than the rest of metahumanity vis-à-vis the template of Homo Sapiens Sapiens. They have a very rough time of it due to their size, dermal deposits and daunting strength and toughness. Let’s face it, even a gentle, careful weakling of a troll can bench press a small vehicle, and would have to take extreme care not to leave finger dents in the bumper. But this isn’t Dungeons and Dragons. Some of the newer images that I have seen featuring orcs aren’t bad. One, in particular, of a female orcish cop is actually pretty cute! No, you can’t watch. Bad boy! But my actual point is that orcs in 2070 are not the hideously deformed creatures of Tolkienian or Gygaxian lore. They are large, powerfully built if somewhat rough hewn humans.

The subject of the thread was why there seemed to be less prejudice against elves and dwarves. I would submit that as other have said, Homo Sapiens Nobilis conforms more closely to modern standards of “beauty�, and that helps a lot. Other than the ears and some extra height (still WELL within the range of variability of the base Sapiens) most elves look like slender humans. Actually, if you didn’t knno better, you wouldn’t be able to tell some of us from ordinary humans. (On a related note, there was this big cuddly guy who just passed most of the time for human… until somebody said something rude to me then he broke them in half. But that’s another story.) I never think of myself as superior based on how I was born to anybody else. And at 24 (circa 2071), I don't spend a lot of time thinking about how I will outlive somebody else, not in this line of work. Dwarves, now, let’s think about this from an AMERICAN perspective for just a moment. Most Americans think “Fairy Tales� have happy endings. Europeans know better. To Americans, leprechauns are friendly little fellows with a pot of gold (or a cereal that was a century ahead of its time; Seriously: a marshmallow flavored cereal with pink hearts, yellow moons, orange stars, green clovers, blue diamonds, purple horseshoes, red balloons, multicolor rainbows and a freaking pot of gold being pushed by a little dude in a green leisure suit and bolo hat?! Tell me that’s not off Aztechnology’s^© latest offering board?). Other than some seriously creepy little orange dudes in a movie about a business tycoon making psychedelic candy, most American media portrayals of the “little people� were generally very positive. And most “dwarves� in fantasy were either good or at worst ambivalent. So when the “spike babies� arrived, we were primed to see them as relatively unthreatening and even mystical. Then compare that to the horrors of UGE and the waves of violence and fear. And it’s the “Orcish Underground�, remember. And it’s almost become a self-perpetuating phenomenon by now.

As to biosculpt, the low level stuff is as uninvasive as getting a tattoo or your ears pierced. Those able to maintain at least a middle lifestyle level of entertainment (Runner’s Companion P.154) “can afford occasional minor cosmetic surgery (tummy tuck, nose-job)�. It doesn’t get much more routine and day-to-day than that.

Nezumi:: I loved your point about average life spans including mortality rates from other sources versus actual life expectancy if you can dodge all those things. And the averages are across social classes and national/corporate origins.

Ornot:: Awesome point about toxins in the environment and things like cancer and previously “eradicated� diseases. Actually, if I recall, didn’t they have a bout of Polio resurging in the first decade of this century even in the United States?

The last point was about resentment in the corporate ladders. Trust me, I know this from experience. It doesn’t matter if the slot standing in your way is a dwarf, a woman, or a dryad. In the end, they are all competition to be overcome. That’s one reason people like me have a job. Sort of like an off-book corporate executive gardener, pruning back branches that have started to starve the lower tiers of the plant of needed sunlight. Recruiting isn’t as big a problem as you might thing, with huge number of untrained soft-chipped workers in menial positions as easily replaceable as the tire on a car. Middle level is somewhat competitive, and as pointed out elsewhere, tends to come from “inside the family� as it were, and that’s true for the corps and the criminal world both. At the upper levels, "involuntary recruitment" (read: extraction) from amongst the top talent at the competition is a high art form. *buffs her nails against her blouse with a smug expression* And for those people too well connected to fire, those of us conversing here are more than willing to help with occasional "janitorial duties as assigned" for the right price.
>>For those that haven’t noticed, I tend to slip in and out of character a bit, but that’s about how most table-top games go anyhow I figure. And the characters probably have in-character ways to describe the actual game mechanics besides “+2 Dice�, because to them, it’s the real world. But I play Shadowrun or the flavor of the world, and if we lose that, why play anyhow?<<

Male Pregnancy



Chrysalis, you have to remember, to the Yaoi fangirl, they believe there is a magical place in a man's anus, that when another man makes sweet love to them that he will get pregnant... Now that I have given my dissertation on the disturbed nature of the Yaoi Fangirl, I will now go get the brain bleach to cleanse my poor soul of the Horror that is the Yaoi.

You know, I managed to live my whole life without learning that. You just broke my streak. Are you proud of yourself?

You are not much into anime then i gather?
or into internet memes like rule 34 *runs*

Yes.

As i said Pandoras Box...

I have to get my eye- and brainbleach...

That which has been seen cannot be unseen. I take it since it is such a magical place... It take many tries until it has been found? With the most androgynistic of boys having a far likely chance to succeed. Fuchs, since you have studied this way more than I have is self-impregnation also something done in the literature? Now I'm curious.

No idea. I am sure there must be at least one Ranma fanfic where such happens, but I'd assume that would happen after splitting the lead character into two.

Well, depending on WHERE and WHEN you split . .
Damn it, i want my portion of laes now, i don't wanna know this <.<

Would a story where Harry is turned into a first year girl student by Hermione so that Harriet can now infiltrate Slytherin and the love triangle between Malfoy, Ron and Harriet end up with Harry pregnant be counted?

So, anyways about those upwardly mobile elves. What is the thrust with them when it comes to getting up the corporate regions?

Nope! Most of the time fanfic writers like to have Ranma screwing anyone (guy while in female form and girls when in guy form... with a preponderance toward female Ranma having more sex)


Now back to the topic: I can see hatred of elves because of their perceived racist attitudes. I mean Tir na nog & Tir Tairngire are perfect examples. Unless you're an elf, you are not going to go too far.

I don't really make a difference betwen elves and humans when it comes to corp advancement - or life expectancy.

To judge elves on the basis of the Tirs is the same as saying all white africans support apartheid, based on the old South African regime. Not that that wouldn't happen, but it's still dumb. Hell, it's going one step further and considering all caucasians to be racist based on the old South African regime.

There are certain to be human anti-elf racists, but they are probably going to be anti-dwarf, anti-orc and anti-troll too. The anti-elf trolls and orcs are as likely to be anti-human too. You won't get many people saying "orcs are alright, but I hate those stinking elves."

The SR4 BBB specifically states that prejudice against elves is due to the perception that there is an elven conspiracy (which given the existence and actions of various immortal elves is actually based on fact). Looking for other reasons is not strictly necessary.