You mean the G11 (I've shot one of those, it was strange) or the G36. The HK G3 was chambered in 7.62 NATO, and is where we get the PSG1 from.

Wait it says that:



So there is still cased ammo. Up to you if you wanna scoop out all the cases after shooting.

Thanks everyone for the constructive input, with very special mention for MusicMan!

@CollateralDyanmo - I'm looking forward to it

@Marwynn - I've gone with your suggestion and I'm adding Assault Rifles to the mix. I'm getting the FN Praetor with few mods.

By doing this, I'm subtracting a point from Dodge and a point from pistols to Automatics. Details on my Char Sheet!

Man... they screwed the P93; the P90 was so much cooler. I liked the PDW concept over the bull-pup.

As a side note, the P90 had a very unique chambering system, but that was because of the very different magazine placement the P90 used, the P93 uses the traditional dropdown mag. The P90's mag was along the top and the rounds were stored sideways. When they were chambered, they dropped down and rotated 90 degrees into firing position. The cases were ejected out of the bottom of the handle of the weapon. It's sooooooooooooooooo cool... they should have kept it for the P93.

I was trying to save up the money for the civilian version of the P90, but the price of the 5.7 ammo was way too prohibitive. I got a customized Taurus PT92 (I liked the placement of the safety on the Taurus better than they Beretta) instead. I had a slide with ghost ring sights and a custom barrel with a compensator on it...

Wow... that was kinda random...

You know what we need: Claymores.

I'm still surprised those aren't statted in Arsenal.

They'll (probably) be in the War sourcebook, I suspect.

I thought the P93 had the same until I saw that mag jutting from the bottom.

Well it holds an impressive 50 rounds. For 650 it's a bargain gun, modding it with an additional clip doubles the cost but it doubles the ammo too. 100 rounds, not too shabby! Flashlight and Electronic Firing for 300 more... It's very not bad.

Looks like a solid hacker, but at a quick glance over the character sheet you seem to be running on about a 425 BP build. We are supposed to be 400 BP right? Or did I mess up with my character? (I'm sure I could find something to spend the BP on )



The sword kind or the explosive kind?

Edit: Hmmm, did we get free contacts maybe? Everyone else seems to be over 400 as well not that I look a bit closer.

Edit2: Aha! Finally found where it says it is 420 BP. Woo, time for more skills

Edit3: Editing my character sheet in the other thread to include the extra BP. Increased int by one, added a few language skills with those extra knowledge skills, gained artisan (drawing) and Pilot Ground Craft both at 1.

Edit4: Come on everyone. Can't sleep in just because it is Saturday
@Whizbang I noticed you don't have simsense which is required for VR (Via the rules in Unwired, p 58) I'm guessing you hadn't noticed that was required, or that Penta isn't requiring that, saying that just the Datajack is enough. Just thought I'd point that out for you.

The problem is that a 50 round mag would be fricking huge. Remember that the P90's mag was almost as long as the firearm... so that 50 round monster jutting out the bottom should be about twice as long.

I don't understand how the additional mag modification is mechanically possible... especially if it's just a mod and not a redesign of the entire firearm.

To help with the size problem you could simply have the mag be thicker couldn't you? Have bullets be side by side?

As for the additional mag modification... well modifications are basically reworkings of the gun. Would it really be any harder with a P93 or whatever than any other gun?

If it has a "special chamber"? Yes; but that was a general complaint.

Actually, alot of their mods are based on things commonly done and are not that... "invasive." Though, most "mods" are just accessories that are added using a rail system. I mean, the handgun I had, I added the equivalent of a Gas Vent I system to it by hand without much problem.

Gack....and now I know why we post it so that others can see it. I forgot the Simsense. And according to the spread sheet as it is I'm at 420. *does some shuffling* Oh yeah...there's a glitch on the vehicles tab of the spreadsheet that only counts the cost for the first drone.....

Could be right. I just kinda added up quickly to get to my numbers and used some rough guesswork on your gear. Are you sure the spreadsheet has your qualities priced properly? Because you only have 30 points of bad qualities, not 35 (Which most people tend to have) (Distinctive style 1 (5), Vindictive (10), Vendetta (10), incompetent (5)) and 35 points of good qualities.

Like I said, totally possible I'm off by a measly 5 BP as I just did a real quick approximation on your gear.

I know I didn't balance the qualities. Editted my sheet. Dropped a point of connection on Bennie and 20 rounds of stick n shock to get the point of nuyen to cover the sim mod and hot sim mod. And dropped that extra flyspy....it was probably glitchy anyways.

Do have to wonder if my black market pipeline (weapons) will go towards our outfitting the ship?

Modified my gear slightly, expanded upon my Commlinks and software stuff. Got a Numbered Credit Account, a real license, and some miscellaneous stuff. For example, did anyone buy restraints? I got 50 plastic ones and 2 plasteel. Oh and a pair of Optical Binoculars and slap patches.

Whiz I think that'd only work if you were the one that paid for the few guns we have.

Yeah I don't know how a second clip is supposed to work, really. But if you don't have to conceal it and the gun's cheap enough, why not right?

I'm certain it couldn't hurt if the ship needs more armaments in the future. I think more important is that you'll be able to help us sell weapons we get from other ships' crews... of course help with replacing any LAWs we use would likely be great... Hehe, I'm sure that we'll get alot of use out of your connection if you don't mind sharing it.

Edit: Oh, I see what you mean... I don't know, we'd have to ask Penta if we can get the armaments through your contact and thus get a discount on them. I'm not sure we'll get it though because you don't usually get stuff like that on character creation.

I asked him, and he said that it wouldn't work at char gen, but that it should be handy once the game is started.

I agree, very handy indeed. High availability F type weapons are hard to get without something like that.

Good catch, I totally missed that re Whizbang. Have a cookie. It's not karma, but it is chocolate chip.

Yes, it's 420 BP as a maximum. I will *accept* characters with only 400 (whereas under 400 I'll say "go back and bulk up"), but 420 is the hard cap.

You also get Kevin Roberts, a fixer who's L 2 C 3, for free. He's been detailed above.
---

On other notes: MusicMan recommended to me the 60m Politi Navi as a design base for the ship's looks. We'll be applying the Classique's stats, though, where they conflict with whatever ship is chosen. But if you wonder how the ship looks unmodified, I offer the Politi Navi for everyone's consideration - the Oculus everyone wants is too damn big, by about 50 feet. (If it were 1, 2, or even 10 feet, I wouldn't comment, but 50? Gotta.)

60m is about the limit in terms of size for a lot of marinas along the Eastern Seaboard, and in fact is too damn big for many, which are designed to serve smaller vessels.

I would need depth charts for the Eastern Seaboard (possible to get but really fucking expensive) to determine whether you can operate up navigable rivers. For now, I'm going to say yes. It's designed for ocean operations, but can operate in navigable rivers.
---

I strongly recommend someone other than me keep notes for their own and the group's use in terms of what I've laid out and what gets decided re the ship and other issues, just to prep for the day when this thread scrolls past the 30-day boundary. I'm keeping notes, but my notes aren't going to be shared. At all. They already contain copious notes re potential story threads and other GM-only stuff.

---
With Whizbang's posting of his character, all who's left is, by my guess, BaronKen. He's promised to get me stuff by today. As he's already been polite and warned me he'd be busy, I won't freak out if Saturday turns into Sunday.

When he posts his character, I'll post the first, very short post to the IC thread a few hours later. As the last one out, he gets a lot less of a review period from you all than perhaps you had.
---
Upon the posting of that first post, all sheets become locked in, with no further modifications possible without karma, at the normal SR4A costs.

I've accepted Milk Ducks' BACKGROUND for the MY Fedallah, but am editing it so that it's not an Ocelus-class vessel. Instead, it'll be whatever non-Ocelus you lot find that meets my smell test. I'll post everything to the OOC thread when it's all decided and the final ship packet is sent my way.

---

After the first post, I actually have a way I want to see things go. Sort of. I reserve the right to cut out elements.

First, your reactions to the post - basically, prep posts for the journey. Detail your thoughts, your feelings, your final preparations for the journey.

Next, after everybody's posted, the "pre-gathering" post. Some more pulling back the curtain on my part, as your fixer and your J arrive at the site before you do.

After everyone's arrived, the "commissioning and orders" post - basically, inaugurating what is a new ship, and giving you all your final pre-boarding instructions (and last IC chance to back out with no harm done and no hard feelings).

I'll basically be designing that post on the fly, specifically as goes the "ritual" elements. You aren't quite military, you aren't quite civilian. As much as you think shadowrunners might not be into ritual, this campaign has some quirks. One of them is that I actually like writing such cinematic posts.

Then, ship tours and getting acquainted - with the ship, with your equipment, with each other, with your fixer, with your J, as you prepare to leave dock.

Finally, leaving dock for your shakedown cruise, followed by your first official orders and associated instructions from the J.

All of this, presuming everybody's on the ball, should have you all at sea and on your own by Wednesday, if posting begins Monday. For me, that's actually fairly quick - I usually luxuriate over the start of a campaign, then abruptly jerk things up a notch. I know everyone wants to get started, though.
---

Some other notes:

Please do not expect this to be a high-energy campaign, especially at first. I'm a GM who likes character development when I can get it, and my shaky relationship to the rules - as we've seen during the chargen and "shipbuilding" phase - makes me all the more anxious when it comes to combat.

There will be combat and similar high-energy phases. It just won't happen immediately.

---

If you do not have my email, PM me for it. This goes double if yoiu have Google Chat - I am an oddly chatty person online, and I prefer to get to know everybody on an OOC level.

Sounds good, I'm all fired up to set sail. Since no one has had any arguments about it, I'll go ahead and continue keeping track of ship equipment once game starts. I'll also expand that to include tracking our water/food/fuel levels and consumption, as well as keeping track of any and all info obtained about the ship (Speed, look, whatever else).

So, in allowing me to keep up with all of that, I'm curious about something. The PN 60m has stats for how much water and fuel it caries (Finally, gezz I had a heck of a time finding anything like that out). It claims 110k liters of fuel and 30k liters of water. That is.... ALOT more fuel than you had indicated (500 liters) and alot less water than I had guessed (80k liters). Will we be using the stats from the PN 60m as far as water/fuel storage goes? I think we should, as it is an actual figure from an actual ship instead of guesswork on our part. If we use those numbers, can our extra fuel tank instead be an extra water tank to double how much water the ship holds?

Unfortunately, I don't know - and could not find out - a critical piece of information needed to determine the full fuel situation of the PN60: The fuel economy, as expressed in km/liter. (For that matter, it's a good question as to how much water the ship uses per day.)

So, unless someone with infinitely better search-fu can find that info, I can't use the fuel info indicated. However, I suspect that such information is not publicly available.

The alternative to the Oculus would've been the X-stream but that is 241' as well.

The RM Elegant is too big as well. Darn, I wish it was 10 ft per Body score. These are some nice yachts. Will search for more.

EDIT:

Hellooo Euphoria! Sexy, 168 ft, crew of 11 with 10 guests.

EDIT 2:

And look at this charming yacht, the Sabdes 50. Manages to look pretty aggressive to me. 164 ft.


EDIT 3:

A Porsche-made Catamaran... The RFF135. I like this! Slideshow here. Deckplans later on in the slideshow.

I do have some last-minute modifications to make on my character's gear listing; nothing huge, I just plan to drop a couple months of lifestyle (six is excessive, I think) and pick up a few extra utility items. Nothing big. Gotta run out of town today, but I'll be back tonight and I'll make time to put those finishing touches on, assuming the sheets aren't locked in at that point. And if they are, it's really no big deal anyway.

-milk.

Right. For minor changes like that, don't send it to me for pre-approval, just edit your posting on the OOC thread and make the changes.

Alright ladies and trolls, I've been doing some talking with Penta and he agrees that I should get a double cut.

Okay, he didn't and I don't think I should get a double cut either (You know, unless you guys really wanted to )

So, using all the newly acquired data from some of these yachting sites, and some real fancy math and negotiation skills, we've come up with the following things:

The MY Fedallah has a top speed of 16.5 nautical miles per hour (30 km/hour) and a cruising speed of 12 nautical miles per hour (22 km/hour). Cruising speed uses up 15 liters of diesel per km traveled and diesel starts the game at 1 per liter, starting with a free tank (110,000 liters). We'll be dropping the extra fuel tank because that is already enough to last us over 7,000 km of travel distance. Thanks to improved economy though we only use up 7.5 L/km which increases our travel distance to over 15,000 km. While that seems like alot and some might suggest dropping the improved economy, I figure it will pay for itself in saved fuel in next to no time.

On to water concerns. The ship holds 30,000 L of water. Each person uses 118 L a week (Trolls use 125) and dishes/cooking uses 20 L/day. There are nine of us (By my count) so that comes out to a total of 1209 L of water used a week, which gives us just under 25 weeks of water. This includes drinking water, water used for washing your hands, brushing your teeth, shaving, and using the restroom. It also includes 15 minutes of shower time a week. I don't really care how you spend the 15 minutes, but that is how long you get.

I figure the water limits won't be stricktly enforced unless we begin to run low or know in advance that we'll be cutting it close on one of our outings. As a side note the two solar stills we currently have give us back 84 L of water a week, so we actually use a net of 1125 L a week and can last just under 27 weeks, and I'm considering purchasing some more for if we run into an emergency situation (Among my biggest fear is that some of our water tanks will be punctured and we could lose a large portion of our drinking water). Oh, and water freshness is maintained via recyling/agitation/cleaning/oxidizing/whatever systems, so we don't need to worry about stale water.

I'll work on adjusting the ship's equipment to reflect all this. Among other notables, this frees up one slot on the ship. Any suggestions as to what we might want to fill this with?

Because this opens up the ship mods again...

You have 24 hours to decide.

My suggestion goes to Enhanced Image Screens. They could be useful for setting up an ambush of enemy pirates, or just generally help misinform others. Also, who doesn't want high quality video on all the windows?

Enhanced Image Screens seems to be a great idea, and complements the Chameleon Coating nicely. 2400 too.


Question: Do we really need the Winch? Or would a Mechanical Arm (Grapple) be more in line of what we need?

Mechanical Arm/Grapple, with a body 24 ship, only has a length of 2.4 meters. I believe MusicMan brought it up with me.

Hopefully the final equipment sheet for the ship. I took out one chainsaw and the climbing gear to afford the upgrade from fuel tank to screens. We are 55 over budget. I'll pay that out of my starting cash if I have to.

That might actually be a really good way to get cargo on and off of the ship. Aww, only 2.4 meters... well that could still be something that can be moved to the side of the ship and lowered/raised some and have cargo containers and/or drones and even us moved from ship to ship as long as the sizes are fairly comparable.

Of course my first thought was a ship with giant arms like in cartoons sometimes. That would be AWESOME.

So the Grapple would have Strength 24 but be only 2.4 metres long. Wow, that sucks. Winch it is then.

Karoline, the Ingrams are overcosted there. Each is 2000, with 2 belts of 100 Ex-ex it's another 2000. A Tripod is only 300. Total should be 8600 not 10800. We can even throw in external top-mounted Smartgun accessories there too, 800 more for both.

Aren't belts of ammo 250 shots?

Edit: I haven't price checked the items, I just figured the individual items were right when I copied it from Dynamo.

They were, but we moved from Gyro Stabilization to Tripods and I don't think the price was modified. The Ingram's "belt" is only 100 rounds as per the book, it'd be nice to have more of 'em.

What seems to be our most common weapons? Because those Smart Firing Platforms will need to shoot something if we take the Ingrams out. A pair of AK-97s (1k total) could suffice, but we can also load it up with heavier weapons. Or grenade launchers to airburst smoke grenades.

Just going through the list. Checking it twice, gonna find out if we're naught and nice.


EDIT: Two Ares Antioch-2s have Smartlinks, +500 Airburst Links and for 1100 we have these remote operated Grenade Launchers. Assuming they're magnetically tipped or something to keep them from being knocked over. I know they have less range than an Assault Rifle but we can use them to throw up thermal smoke or gas at nearby targets should the need arise.

Up to you guys, suggesting it. Since it's 2200 for two of them it brings us right back to where we were before.

And I'll pay that extra from my starting money, I've been insisting on these things so I don't mind. Of course, we'll still need ammo...

Considering the scale of operation though, it may not be worth it.

Also, have a look at the RFF 135 and see if that clicks into your mind as the MY Fedallah. Or are we going with the Navi?

*Throws up hands in the air like he just don't care*

Whatever yacht is really fine with me. Unique floorplans and etc will be exciting and Milk Ducks supposedly has gotten us a ship history? Can we....see that? I'd like to start getting acquainted with my new home.

As for splitting up loot and what not:
1/4 going to loan
1/2 Split amongst active participants

1/4 going to Fedallah:
Just so we are clear, I think that the "Fedallah money" should be used in this order:
1. to cover food and water costs
2. to repair the Fedallah (this includes monthly fees such as the weather service, as well as replacement of resources that are technically Fedallah's, such as the LAWs)
3. to help injured compatriots. If someone on the team somehow loses an arm helping us do our jobs, we should cover at least a basic replacement for him. With them paying the difference for higher class models. If they die and are leaving behind a dependent, we should do what we can to compensate the family. We are not scum, we should look after our own. I am thinking of this as a basic healthcare system to cover one another. And, as pirates were the first organizations to have documented health care systems, it only feels right.
4. to cover costs from the run (legwork, specialty buys, required expenses, etc.)
5. upgrades to the ship
6. costly upgrades for a single crew member (if all other crew members approve)

I thought it best to denilineate the order in which we pay things out for when our money gets desperately tight. Note, I put compensation for injuries pretty high up there. For me (and especially my character) knowing that your runner team cares about your well being does alot towards improving the group dynamic. If you look at it from a purely mercenary standpoint, knowing that letting your teammate letting you die will COST him money this run as you now need to pay his cut and a little extra to his wife and daughter back home, makes you much more sure of his motives in a firefight. Of course, we could all be humanitarians here, but I have my doubts on a few *cough cough* musicman *cough*. Any disagreements?

That yacht looks really small (You know, for a yacht).

Personally I like the PN 60m. It is simple enough, the right size, and we are basing most of the stats of our ship on it anyway. It even comes with floor plans (Even if they are really light and hard to read). I figure I'll wait for Milk Ducks or whoever is working on the ship's plans and such to turn in what they have and just run with that.

As far as I know, the Ingrams are going on the weapon mounts, so I don't think grenade launchers would be alot of help (And planning out the tactical use of the launchers when they are automated would be very difficult).

The outline of the cost structure of the ship funds sounds good. One addition is that fuel is added to 1 (I'm guessing you just forgot) and that 6 is a rare event, though with it requiring the full support of the crew, it likely will be regardless. Oh, and new equipment would fall under 5 as well.

As for what to do with the 2k .. I suggest more stills. I've worked out with Penta that we can get non-solar stills that run off the ship's battery for 150 That'd help with mitigating standard water usage, and would let us still operate normally with minimal cutbacks even if we did manage to run out of water.

My character is opposed in Ingrams, for the same reason most people (IRL( are opposed to High-Points. He thinks they're cheap "gang-banger guns." Not that he won't use them, he just won't like them. He's a bit of a gun snob.

My character is all about practical humanitarianism... jump off a bridge just 'cause, don't expect help; get hurt legitimately, and he'll be the first one to cover your ass.

Well, your character doesn't have a say in this

I liked the RFF 135 mainly for its nicely done floor plans, though the Euphoria (p21) has a pretty decent set as well. But they're smaller both than the PN 60M.

Our riggers/hackers can control the Smart Firing Platforms too, or tell it what specifically to attack. We don't have to rely on its Pilot to do that for us, in fact since it doesn't have any safeties I'd rather not. It might shoot the ship.

But as I said the grenade launchers would be limited by the scale of operations.

The Ingrams won't always be on the platforms, that's why we bought the Tripods for them. And if they are, they'll need a Smartgun accessory--only 100 more if we remove the Tripods.

I know you guys are getting sick of the yachts but I found something that looks similar enough to the PN 60m.

And it has full specs and deckplans.

The Phoenix. The deckplans are in flash but you can right click and zoom in. Don't go to Lurssen's main page, it is AGGRAVATING to use. 200 ft (61m) exactly, and handy with the deckplans.

Looking for those pics on their own but they're hard to find.

Could just use printscreen and paste it into paint. Safe the file and post it to imageshare or one of those billions of sites.

Edit: I like it.

Edit2: I call the owners suite

Lets see. From the designs it looks like we have 4 nice state rooms on the bottom deck (Which is actually where my character will likely be) along with 4 crew rooms which have bunkbeds in them. Then we have a VIP room, the Owner's room, and the captain's room. That gives us 11 rooms without having to share, though 2 people will get somewhat shafted as they'll have to be in the much much smaller crew rooms.

I print it to PDF, then printscreen it. But it's still hard to read that way... oh well, if we need it we can load up the site and zoom in and out. Handy.

I figure we can use that area where they keep the two boats to keep our one and the other half of the area will be our machine shop... or maybe we'll want it somewhere on the main deck so we don't have to worry about getting big things to it.

Edit: Actually the owner's study would make a decent place to put the machine shop.

Thought: I'll let you guys pick which design you use...But the Piloti Navi has one thing going for it the Phoenix doesn't...

It has a helicopter pad.

I'm not kidding, my eyes bugged out when I saw the circled H on the plans.

Rather neatly solves the question of 'how do you launch/recover drones'.

So it works out like this:

Better plans on Phoenix versus....a helicopter pad...on the PN60.

Oh, if only we could have both in the same plans.

But the Phoenix does have tender platforms...

But neither of them include plans for concealed armor...

I think we can use the Sundeck as a landing pad for small/medium drones; I'm pretty sure I could land my sparrow on it.

I know, that's what makes it so hard to choose.

Sure they do, you just can't see it: it's concealed.

Maybe we should just upgrade to an aircraft carrier

But really, I think the designs for the phoenix work exceedingly well. Don't forget we aren't bound to them exactly (Which was the point of my concealed armor jibe) and so we can make small adjustments as we'd like.

There is totally enough room on the aft sun deck to land most things. Personally all my flying drones have VTOL capabilities so I'm not too worried about landing space. If there is enough room for me to stand there, they can probably land there. Even for things that need some 'runway' the sun deck has a nice clear area a meter or so wide running around it that can be used to land smallish things.