But at that point, Intrinsic Armor (The armor that is natural to the body, or applied permanently to the body) ALWAYS stacks... just like a trolls armor, or a dermal sheath, or even mystic armor... they always add to your armor total, so why would not the Natural Armor of the critter do the same thing?

Just Curious, I remember the length of the last argument, but not really the specifics... and please do not think that I am an advocate of armor in the 40's... I am not, just wanting to be somewhat clear on the issue is all...

Keep the Faith

Incorrect Tymeaus... 'intrinsic' armor will always be from one of two sources. Well 3 if you include cyber/bio.

It will either be magical in nature adept, Mystic armor (editor should be shot for giving a critter power of same name!), all magical sources (spell, adept power, etc..) lists cumulative with. The only one which doesn't is ItNW.

It will be natural armor as per the critter power. (see troll). Again specifically says it's cumulative.

It will be cyber/bio... again each individual piece state that they're cumulative.

The only one again which lacks cumulative wording is immunity.

In a way Shadowrun 'immunity' kind of reminds me of Flame of Rekka (Rekka no Honou)... where the 'hottest' flame master can burn a lesser flame master. So while it's probably poorly named, if you take it that way, the use of hardened style effects makes sense.

Hmmmm, I always assumed that the indication to treat it as normal armor would have handled the confusion (treat as natural, like a troll)... but hey... works for me I guess... we have never had the need to distinguish such things at our table, but at least I have a somewhat solid baseline to present if it does become an issue...

Keep the Faith

Small point... a trolls natural armor is not 'normal armor', it's 'natural armor'. In fact considering trolls are one of the very few metas to get it... it's almost 'abnormal' armor ;).

The trolls armor is from natural keratin deposits or the like... how is it different than say the Rhino in running wild... w/ the armor (2/4) quality also giving it 'natural armor'.

Once you categorize the armor sources, things fall into place very quickly.

Cool, works for me, was just wondering a bit, as it is somewhat confusing at times...

Keep the Faith

Uh. Adept Mystic Armor doesn't work like that (I called it the "armor power" to avoid confusion with the critter power of the same name).



So a drake adept with 4 points of Adept Mystic Armor in dracofrom has 8/8 Balistic/Impact. Unless Mystic Armor isn't cumulative with the drake's innate Hardened Armor.

If he gets shot with an attack that does 7P damage, does he roll dice? If so, how many? And which track is the damage applied to?

Manatech usually involves some Awakened plants; so do Awakened drugs. They don't link back to a mage. Why must manabullets?

As you quoted yourself, the Adept Armor protects against astral attacks as well. Thus the drake has a resistance pool of WIL+4(Hardened Mystic Armor)+4(Adept Armor) +/-AP in astral combat. Astral Attacks up to 4P/S bounce off and anything above that is resisted with the aforementioned pool.



That's exactly what I wrote. Though the distinction between ballistic and impact armor is moot on the astral plane since there are no ranged attacks.

Yes, he has to roll, because the damage exceeds his hardened armor. He rolls BOD/WIL+8+/-AP, depending on whether you are talking about an astral or a physical attack, and the damage is converted to Stun because the damage does not exceed his Armor value. With AP -2 it would have been Physical damage.

Yeah, Dakka has it correct... please note what you quoted on the 'adept mystic armor' power. It is 'cumulative with worn armor'. So if you treat the hardened armor as worn armor... it's cumulative with it. This is also where I get the stacking clause... IF it's "cumulative with WORN ARMOR" (and you're treating the hardened as worn armor), then worn armor does not stack with other worn armor, only apply the higher total.

The hardened armor damage threshhold doesn't change... just the amount of resistance dice you roll on the test... if you need to resist.

EG: a normal character w/o any hardened component would either resist 1-8stun, or 9+ physical. But a drake can only resist 5-8stun, or 9+ physical due to the hardened armor & adept mystic armor.

Most critters have natural armor which is cumulative with worn armor... most things start with 0/0 worn armor... so adding things to the worn armor total makes it simple. In the above example... if you put 2/2 armored clothing on the drake it wouldn't have an effect (4/4 hardened is greater than 2/2 clothes), however if you had the equivalent of a dragon trenchcoat crafted, it would change your damage profile accordingly... (12/10 armor, 4 points hardened... EG: you will either resist 5-12 points of stun, or 13+ physical ballistic track).

If AP is involved... you apply it against both tests (the hardened test, and the armor resistance test)... EG: -2 AP means you lose 2 points of armor total, and the hardened armor protection would be considered reduced by 2 as well for the damage threshhold (EG: they now need to do 3 or more damage rather than 5 or more damage). The hardened armors test is special and doesn't involve any other types of armor.


This is a little of a sidenote.. drakes are a bit less powerful than they were in previous editions. However, they've also lost their automatic hunted negative qualities and the like. They're no longer as big of a deal. They did this because the devs stated they wanted drakes to be playable characters in this edition, and not drag the rest of the party into their problems while not having them as overpowering as they were in the past. I'd love to link the thread.. but it's another one that is pre-crash. (sad isn't it that dumpshock has had it's own crash). Lets put it this way, how would you like it if someone you were playing with had brought down a hunted/enemy (great dragons) quality on the group... it tends to sidetrack the game badly...

I've seen the past few pages, and thought I would add my 2 cents.

The way I think it works is like how water effects a person. A normal person can stand in knee high water as long as they want, so they have an immunity to it, but if a large wave comes by, it can throw him around, and hurt him. The more "immune" the person is, the less the wave will effect him, until the person can just brush off the wave.

Same goes to fire.

Also, I don't know how fire works on armor, but does it burn it off, and make it useless to all subsiquent hits, because it's scorced? Maybe that effect would be negated by the imunity, even tho that the physical damage to a person may splash through because the "immunity" wasn't high enough.

Just an idea.