Not only does it cover everything here, but Shadowrun and Eclipse Phase are fully compatible. The Nanocybernetic Flashback System mentioned in Augmentation, along with a Personafix chip and skillwires, covers the clone-based immortality of Eclipse Phase. It's memory recordings are even limited in usability to the clone they came from.

The nanoforges in Eclipse Phase are present in Shadowrun, and the only reason they are not turning the SR4 universe into a paradise is because Evo and Ares are actively squashing the tech and keeping extremely tight control over feedstock.

The best part of all, in my opinion, is that you don't have to drop magic at all. In Eclipse Phase, the Earth is a no-go zone with orbital weapons platforms pointed toward the planet. There is something down there that makes no sense to the science of Eclipse Phase, so people generally avoid it. If you came from space, with it's complete lack of magic, the happenings of the Awakening would look like some crap the TITANS had pulled out (Deus is a perfect TITAN). It's just so...shiny!

The danger of having your spacecraft torn up by an impact is FAR higher in earth orbit than in deep space or the asteroid belts. Multiple spacecraft have gone through the asteroid belts and the only impacts they recorded were well within the capability of the protection systems they used and were very similar to what they encountered on the way to the asteroids.

Oh, and about economic viability? This is a nano-punk system, not hard scifi. A nanofax capable of creating electronics and machinery costs 2,500,000 newyen, and is the size of a small car. If you shuttle one of those to an asteroid and have it produce disassemblers with it's initial payload, you have a modular factory that will be able to harvest what it needs to make mining drones. Cheap as hell, actually.

As to who would use things in space? How about the 99% of the population who are at the mercy of the Awakening? How about anyone trying to get to a no-mana zone to avoid the Horrors? Transhumanists? AI? Pioneers? Energy producers, miners, explorers, settlers; who wouldn't want to get away from the polluted pile of Radioactive Bug Spirit Shedim Wraith Mutant Nomad Monsters? Awakened Earth is a scary fracking place, space is much safer.

-- There's no free lunch. Even the space elevator won't remove the energy cost to get into orbit -- it just lets you use energy sources that are FAR more convenient (like electricity).
-- Let's back up a bit:
* Space mining in Shadowrun is completely feasible from a technical standpoint. In fact, it's almost trivially easy in some respects as major parts of your infrastructure can be constructed at the harvest site without any expensive human intervention. If they so desired, the megacorps and other players have the know-how to build fusion drives, ion drives, plasma sails, and all sorts of things to move things around without breaking the bank on expensive and volatile chemical rockets.
* There appears to be no planetside demand for raw or refined space metals. The small-scale operations on the moon do not appear viable from an in-game economics standpoint if Earth is the market; you're moving extremely high bulk and very low cost materials up the moons gravity well and all the way down to Earth. Stuff doesn't "fall" from orbit orbit so you have to push it down there at great cost. It's possible they are building caerns (seriously, Immortals and Great Dragons have contingency plans too) but more likely what they mine is used on-site or for other orbital projects (as that is FAR cheaper than bringing it up from Earth).
-- Economical: Boosting refined metals into other orbits for construction. Moving cheap, high bulk metals around on Earth. Bringing high value-added manufactured goods down to Earth.
-- Not Economical: Boosting anything into orbit (unless it's your only option/investment). Spending the delta-V and drop shielding to move most metals from space to Earth.
* Most of the pie-in-the-sky space development plans assume some form of resource shortage that makes this worth the trouble. Shadowrun, as part of the invisible "a wizard did it" background that keeps things appropriately zany, doesn't have this ... yet. Which is rather remarkable given how the line has evolved to incorporate contemporary geopolitical events.

-- Reference? This is not backed up by the in-game fluff or mechanics of Year of the Comet.

-- Fusion plants in Shadowrun do appear to be very large, capital intensive design. This means they are probably not suited for mobile spacecraft - so compact fission plants may have a new lease on life above the gaiasphere. Very large stations like Z-O may have a fusion plant (I don't recall it being mentioned, but it's likely), as do surface installations on Mars and the Moon.

-- Anything large enough to damage the craft could be detected far in advanced and taken care of by course adjustments or zapping it with your housekeeping laser.

-- Well, that has its own problems but you don't have a gravity shelf to work over.

-- There is always a risk in these operations, but I think you are overstating the dangers of losing your assets from collisions. LEO is going to be FAR, FAR more dangerous an environment to operate in than the rather empty "asteroid belt" for example. Moving mass around is the hard part as you say, you can't just "drop" things down the gravity well despite the terminology

And even if you get them into space, you still have to accelerate, change course, and slow them down. Inertia, again, ruins your party. And your space ship by now is mainly made of factories intended to build protection, lasers, radar (which needs to be hardened and a mich better range than what the cheap sensors from Arsenal offer, so no, no 1200 nuyen components used), et cetara. You need propulsion to move this aroun. You need propulsion to move it and the haul back (and there, the ship would very significantly increase in mass).


It also isn't worth much in the SR4 system. Please don't quote out of context, too, since this is about personal armor, not vehicle armor.


And by now, you are dragging half a city worth of fabrication facilities with you. AAll this costs, all this has to be maintained, powered, and hauled around. All this decreases the economic viability of your mining mission.


Which space craft has passed the Oort belt? Two have entered, one of them stopped broadcasting to my knowledge.

Also, they passed, they never spent much time there, countrary to the mining mission.

Nanofax. Small car sized. Omni factory. 2.5 million newyen. Fracking cheap. Takes up 2 Slots in vehicle customization.

While good at creating furniture and clothes, it generates them out of special preprocessed material, not unprocessed ore. So you're hauling around factories to turn ores and asteroids into processable stuff then. You need a nanoforce, which is a lot more expensive, to begin with, too. Regenerative materials are interesting, though. All in all, nanotech does work for this mission, but it still remains there is no pressing shortage of things on earth to take to space. the mass needing hauling around will not diminish even if all costs are rendered nil. That's where space mining breaks so long as there are more accessible ressources available.

Have a look at Peter F Hamilton's Greg Mandel novels for a good take on corporations and extraplanetary mining - specifically Mindstar Rising, which deals with fabrication off-planet and getting material from those factories onto Earth, and Nano Flower, which deals with mining asteroids and corporate longterm vision.


Shame you appear not to have read Neuromancer, as your description is blatantly wrong...
...Molly is good, but not very high-end [clock, thermo vision, muscle augment, reflexes]...
...The Illusionist can only do one thing, explained in a hand waving way...
...Finn isn't an international fixer, they drag him around...
...Case is a crack hacker who may or may not have poison sacks bonded to his blood vessels, using a poison that his previous employers used, does not even have a datajack and uses a progra given to him to do the job...
...Armitage isn't remote controlled by an AI, just a series of "people" who get him to do things...

Not too far off streetlevel, actually...
...Since none of them are very powerful - they just have money thrown at them.

Without wanting to re-open the whole SR4 != streetlevel discussion, the sort of characters that can be created and the sort of vibe from SR4 are very not streetlevel [in my opinion]...

hi hi

The Oort cloud and the asteroid belt are two totally different things. One is a well understood collection of rocky asteroids between Mars and Jupiter, the Oort cloud is a hypothetical mass of icy bodies beyond the orbit of Pluto.

If you send the first one out and don't intend to speak with it, send specs for a clone vat and Flashback/skillwires/personafix cyberware. Even if you don't like that particular rules extrapolation, a Pilot 6 with Expert Systems 6 in mining, Adaptability 3, backup drones and Tacnet 4 will be making decisions with 19 dice, which should be enough to get a repeater satellite system built and spaced. With nano-punk nanoforges, you just need the one seed and the solar system is yours.

-- I apologize, I had meant to respond to this earlier but IE ate my response

-- Here are some of things that a few of us hashed out a few years ago when the Comet thing was brought up (I almost certainly forgot many things).

* Radiologically-clean steel: I used this in Transhuman Space: Under Pressure ("mining" old sunken ships). All steel produced after WW2 is mildly radioactive, and getting more so due to atmospheric nuclear testing and burning coal. As steel production uses vast amounts of air this is reflected in the steel. This is a big deal with medical devices (as the metal interferes with diagnostics) and certain sensors. In space you can find locations to liberate vast amounts of oxygen and have a ready source of iron. It was pointed out that even so it would probably be easier to just create closed-cycle steel production plants on Earth. Also a question mark of trace radioactivity in off-planet iron. Which is why we used the simpler alternative in TS

* Caerns: I see you already mentioned this. I don't specifically recall if this was hinted at, but one idea for Mars was that it was a special caern that was reached via nethermancy (IIRC) (there was a high-Circle spell that was referenced but I don't remember which). Basically, the ultimate 'off-the-grid' location for Horror protection. I didn't really like Earthdawn at the time so I didn't follow this conversation very closely I'm afraid. I think it tied in with that dragon plateau place in Thera (don't have that book, sorry).

* Human Supremacy: As a mana void it's unlikely that magical genes will express in this environment. One plot would have been that some human-first group (not Humanis, they are too KKK) figured this out and was supporting space habitats for the express purpose of 'weeding out' metahumans. There was some argumentation on this, that once the genes expressed it took a long time for them to 'bleed off' their energies so this would be a long term project. At the time I was under the impression that it was more an on-off switch and no metahumans would be conceived in space, but the second they went back down to the gaiasphere they would express (wiggle room for what happened if they went back after puberty).

* Genetic Research: The gaiasphere has significantly warped the genome of possibly every single life form on Earth. As a control group it would make sense to shift some research into the mana void. Possibly even resulting in developments impossible to replicate on Earth due to magical meddling.

* Nuclear Research: Nukes have .... issues in the gaiasphere as shown by Cermak. This has now been made explicit in the setting. So if you want to do nuclear physics you're probably best off not doing it on the planet unless you want your researchers all dying to freak events (like fission plants literally blowing up as stated in earlier Shadowrun books!). Hell, all high-energy physics may interact with mana and cause problems so move it into space too.

* Planar Magic: If you care about possession or something nasty following you back, do all research in space. This works great except as I noted earlier, the rules don't really stop spirits from using Inhabit and Possession to protect themselves from the void (I may be interpreting this incorrectly).

I'm going to go ahead and point out that this tread appears to have been started by someone who felt like working on adding space stuff to SR, and there appear to be several people who are interested in the idea... Having someone go on and on about how clearly anything to do with space in SR is badwrongfun and should clearly be arrested by the gaming police is great and all, but seems more of a derailment of a perfectly reasonable thread than to be adding anything useful to it...

Lucy

A desktop nanoforge, from Arsenal 130 costs 150,000. A nanofax that can make electronics and mechanics is 2,500,000 on Augmentation 116. A nanohive to produce a particular strain of nanites costs 10,000. Auxons, self-replicating nanites, are mentioned on Augmentation 98, where it explains the limitations based on feedstock. However, a full nanofax would easily have a separate system to convert mined materials into the needed feedstock, and then feed it over to the nanohives. The only input that would be needed was energy.

Is cited as the main concern about space operations in Augmentation, so it matters.


Neither is it space opera.


Urgh. This is a mission for Ancient History. It was laid down somewhere, but I really cannot remember where right now. I'll look into it.


Yes. The problems of the operation are comparable in cost intensity, but getting the product to the smelters is a lot more cost effective.


Not if you have any plans for using it later at least, yes.

Okay, maybe I overestimate the risk of collision in the belt, but the main problem remains the haul anyway.

Nice oxymoron (scnr)


Not by SR standards, but in the Neuromancer world, she is, being able to take out the deadliest assassin type there is. SR is incredibly high powered with augmentations anyway. A street sam out of the box would make a seasoned Space Marine run, consiering each's augmentation and relative power.


And is highly paid. He also can ceate lasers out of thin air.


He is a god AI with his own cult by the third book. Yes, he has many international connections. They dragin im with them because he does.


You do not have datajacks in the Neuromancer world, which was not written with shadowrun rules in mind. In this world, he was one of the best and learned from the best there were.


Which is the AI's way of talking to him. Also, he spent a few years jacked into a computer and the AI reprogrammed him. Neuromancer the AI actually says so.


The definition of the mundane's relative power in SR is the money they have.


Neither is Neuromancer.


Source? Because the text says exactly otherwise.

Planeswalk, I think, is the name.


Okay, that is ... interesting to know. I have my own wacko ideas about a previous high-magic dragon civilisation from way back at the end of the age of dinosaurs, which includes dragons in space. I might even use this in a game eventually. Thanks for sharing!


Was Doom³ out back when you wrote this? No, these and the other, unreferenced points make a lot of sense and have fun implications (like, what lurks in the abandoned station at L5 ...).

hermit why are you posting in this thread? you seem to be just attempting to shitcan any ideas or thoughts on expanding SR a little into space.

No, I am just pointing out some things that do not work within the setting (essentially, 2001-style space colonisation and, of course, a reboot to make SR a space opera). You made this a quoting and yelling match.

There's a difference between expanding the setting into space a little and turning it into some retro 60s space opera with elves, orcs and dragons.

Edit: And one thing I missed int he earlier broken up post:


Wouldn't steel exposed to hard background radiation in space be more, not less, radioactive?

Well I want nothing to do with a space opera. As far as a quoting and yelling match, I'd rather argue from the setting and tenuously reality than pure opinion and pure speculation. You have me confused a bit by arguing against stated references in the setting and seem to think yourself a better source than the SR source books. What do you think would be a good expansion of the setting into space? Other than the horrors metagame plot.

no. background radiation doesn't make things more radioactive. Contamination with radioactive sources does.

Space tourism, more near-earth space station traffic, and space-made hightech components. Maybe even a larger habitat/colony with a four-digit populace. Manned posts on Mars that vanish because Dr. Betruger's experiments ate everyone. That kind of stuff. I'd call for stops if space becomes the central focus of the game, or if there is 2001 style colonisation on other planets at more than three-digit scale.


Let's just say Arsenal contains a plethora of inconsistencies with previous canon, mostly due to the fact it was a hack job and one of the supervising editors was the biggest dork that has ever been line developer. Fortunatly for you, he was the German guy. So yes, I do not accept Arsenal as the be-all end-all of sources. augmentation is much better that way, the nanotech advanced a bit fast, but at least it advanced organically without contradicting much or throwing out weird shit like the wifi-communicating car engine parts.


Or neutron radiation, as is coming from the sun, right? Particle storms and the like also should add up ... just wondering.

That sounds fairly reasonable and about in line with what at least I have been going for. Other settings that are all about space have been mentioned before and I want nothing to do with them because they are space operas or other things that I don't enjoy.




I know I haven't quoted those. I corporate download, target wasteland, and a few others for what is in space. Not sure I have read Arsenal.


neutron radiation and particle storms (mostly alphas and hydrogen) will mess with chemical bonds and kill things. Even when alphas get embedded they just take on electrons and become helium. Neutrons will bounce around for a while and then toss off an electron and turn into a hydrogen.

Wifi-communicating car engine parts? Yea, that's some crazy scifi [link].

Demolisher Nanites, from Augmentation 114, use a 1 liter application to turn half a metric ton of "most forms of sold matter" into "piles of recyclable components." Page 98, under the heading Auxons, "nanite breeds exist that are able to produce other nanites from raw stock", and while "Very few nanite breeds possess this capability, and most demand a specific feedstock to work with. Those few that can be programmed to accept certain materials “as is,” are rarely able to process any significant variety of materials." So, I would ask for your source, as the text says exactly opposite of what you are saying.

This technology exists in Shadowrun, it is just sat on by Eco, Ares, MCT, Renraku, and SK. Agumentation 101 refers to full sized building construction solely using nanites, and then there is that section on Augmentation 102 titled "Space Exploration and Exploitation" where Ares, SK, and Evo are discussed using nanotech on their "off-world habitats and mining stations."

As to "space opera," I don't see jedi powers, star trek photon torpedoes, or Firefly FTL tech. Nano-punk is no more outrageous than cyberpunk, or, ahem, DRAGONS. So before going off on your little snits because someone wrote things you didn't like into the game, remember that this is ultimately a system that has elves in it, that William Gibson HATED. Not all of us want to play scifi games that are restricted to concepts thought up in the 80's, and want things like this, or this in our games.

No, it is stupid tech. Especially in a world where everyone with a few grand can be a top-end hacker.


And not everyone wants to play in von Braun's projects with elves, either. I don't care much about what Gibson approves of anyway. And space opera doesn't necessarily need jedi powers or applied phlebotium. The Perryverse is very inane using essentially 50s tech.


Uh huh. This has nothing to do with whether I think nanotech developed more organically and with less inanity than stuff from Arsenal, so you might want to explain what, exactly, you are trying to say here.

hi hi

This has been fun and all, but I'm afraid this thread really doesn't concern you hermit. (This thread is for people who are interested)

wow. Isn't that a little harsh?

However, a full nanofax would easily have a separate system to convert mined materials into the needed feedstock



I apologize, I forgot to quote you on that one. It's so hard to make sure I have all of your bitching properly accounted for.

hi hi

I suppose it is a little bit harsh. It is fine with me if people don't want to play with the space aspect of Shadowrun, but that is no reason to try to derail people who do want to play with it. Just because information about Hong Kong was published doesn't mean plot stops happening in Seattle.

or that I would stop running in Seattle.

So, back to Space in SR4. I liked the suggestion of using Eclipse Phase, as it's an open source document, and it fits fairly well with Augmentation. I would even go so far as to guess that it was on purpose, as there was supposed to be an EP/SR4 crossover before Catalyst Games got into it's current...difficulties.

Seems a bit far into the future to be too bridgeable into SR. I'm more interested in 2070s than 2570s or 3070s. In what way does it fit with Augmentation?

The most important part of EP is the clone-based immortality. In the game, players have a small system in their brain that records their memories and backs up their current state from time to time, and has a small payload of entangled quibits to get the recording out to a bodyfarm in case of sudden death. From there, they are uploaded into another clone, and are good to go.

In Augmentation, the nanotech Flashback System gives a character Photographic Memory by storing "neural activity map." If you get brain damage, or just forget something, there it is. It's the equivalent of a simsense recording of the memory, but since it isn't storing the actual memory, just the neural activity map, it's unusable by anyone else.

The section at the beginning on nanotech computing discusses MCT and NEOnet researching quantum computing, particularly quibits.

So suppose you have a rich brat named, say, Simon, who's father is the eccentric space engineer on the board of Evo. Suppose further that he has a backup clone with a Flashback System, skillwires, and a Personafix chip based on Simon's last PAB scan. Suppose that Simon was hacking open an MCT Cyborg bodyguard so he could engage it in a philosophical debate about the impossibility of discounting the argument that you are simply a brain in a jar. If that cyborg, let's call him ADAM, suddenly figured out that it was, in fact, a brain in a jar, it might react badly and burn the mansion down, killing everyone inside.

Well, we can't have that, so we boot up Simon2 in Seattle in a safe house where his friendly Vory buddies will keep him out of trouble. Simon2 doesn't have the skills or memories of Simon to begin with, but between the skillwires, personafix chip, and access to Simon's memories, eventually the difference will disappear. So we have a primitive form of clone based immortality.

I wouldn't want to jump right to EP from SR4, but playing SR4 as the EP universe pre-TITANS would be quite fun.

Um wow. That's all I have to say for that.

All I'm in for is some stats for current space tech in SR and maybe some details of locations and at most a slight expansion of locations. Ceres or an asteroid or two.

deleted double post.

I get that alot.

What do you expect? I'm trying to be polite, but you are suggesting so many changes that it sounds like the only thing left of SR after would be the rules and past.

I actually tried very hard to make sure that it didn't require changing anything in the Shadowrun universe, and tried to make sure that it fit with the system. I seem to have failed. It just seemed like a such a natural extension of the gear that is in Unwired and Augmentation, but given that my GM agrees with you, I guess I'm wrong. Sorry.

I'd say that everything is a reasonable extrapolation, but you sort of kill the "soul" of Shadowrun. Eclipse Phase is fundamentally about transcending the bonds of humanity; Shadowrun is pretty much about reveling in them. True transhumanism is hard to come by in the petty, violent, greed-driven world of Shadowrun. I like your ideas, but I think you're going a little too fast.

I guess that's true. I did have to use a corporate brat with gobs of cash to do it, so maybe the clone immortality is best left to recurring NPCs.

I will say that Eclipse Phase has some very interesting ideas... It has some ideas that would take a bit of getting used to , but it is something that I am excited about. At least for me, Eclipse Phase has generated a great deal of excitement for me, akin to when I first started playing Shadowrun 20 years ago...

Keep the Faith

If you set him to ignore the thread is a lot more fun.

hi hi

Bloody Jane may not trust $_imon (or anyone for that matter), but let it not be said that IceKatze never did nothin' for da peoples. Below are my attempts at space craft given what I know about technology theorized by the good folks at NASA. Please note that much of the crunchy bits will only be useful to the GM since overall mission trajectories will not happen quickly. (In deep space combat, just figure out who has more delta V to spare. In most situations they simply get to decide if there is an engagement or not)

------
EVO High Performance Deep Space Cargo Lifter

Weighing in at 418,000 kilograms full, the DSCL can lift a maximum of 100,000 kilograms anywhere in the solar system. The DSCL has no atmospheric capabilities, instead it spends all of its time in free fall, relying on a record 20 Variable Specific Impulse Magnetoplasma Rockets with Hydrogen propellant to lift itself at a break neck .006 to .01 meters per second squared. A rotating crew compartment can support 6 people for up to 3 years depending on the mission. The VASIMR's high exhaust velocity makes the DSCL capable of fulfilling a wide range of missions.

It is most commonly used to ferry passengers and supplies between the Earth and the Moon, by placing it's rockets into low gear, it can make the trip to the moon in a matter of hours. Another common mission for the DSCL is transporting cargo to Mars, Vesta, Ceres and other locations in the asteroid belt. Its high DeltaV potential gives it some leeway in launch windows, rather than just the 2 years and 1.6 month Synodic period for Mars. In the event of an emergency, it can modify it's cargo bay to hold an extra propellant tank, allowing it to make a direct climb to Mars at any point in its orbital path.

If you don't mind waiting a few years, the DSCL could take you past Saturn, though doing so would stretch the limits of its environmental systems.

Stats


------
EVO Deep Space Security Vessel

Designed to protect corporate assets from encroachment by competitors, the harsh engineering demands on the vessel have produced vehicle with a distinctly ungainly appearance. On one end is placed an array of VSIMRs allowing it to lift towards its target destination, however, the ultra low thrust inherent to the VSIMR makes it a poor choice for combat conditions. In the unlikely event of a conflict, the D2SV flips over and utilizes the Coaxial Nuclear Thermal Rocket on it's other end, giving it the high acceleration it needs to evade hostile weapons fire. The D2SV carries a crew of 3 in cramped conditions, and special equipment is used to prevent physical atrophy.

The D2SV scales in at 250,000 kilograms, of which over 200,000 kilograms are devoted to propulsion. It was originally mounted with a single high powered laser, an automated point defense system and a magazine of missiles, similar in construction to the Heimdal Drone Missile. However, the D2SV is so rare that each one built is unique.



Edit: A couple of quick sketches of what they might look like.

And this is how Simon would trick it out. Why drag your meat-body across the inner system if you can't do it in comfort and impeccable style?

The Hobbes' Leviathan - Evo DSCL
Body
[4] Amenities(Luxury)
[1] Cyborg Adaptation [Capacity 12]
[1] Reflective Hull
[2] Workshop Forge

Communications
[1] Enhanced Image Screens
[1] Improved Sensor Array
[1] Touch Sensors
[1] Interior Cameras

Guns
[1] Gyro Link
[6] Reinforced Heavy Turret Flexibility
[8] Large Multilaunch
[1] Missile Defense System

-- As I'm very concerned with ensuring that everything fits in with Shadowrun as seamlessly as possible, I find hermit a good counterpoint. As I've pointed out several times, the canon setting is very conservative on the subject of space development. The last detailed in-game coverage of the region was in 2062 and the more recent material just regurgitates Target: Wastelands and Man and Machine for the most part, it's important to keep in mind how little impact it has had on the game universe. as the game is centered around the shenanigans of quasi-terrorist gang members who often self-style themselves as Robin Hood, space exploration doesn't seem core to the concept.

-- I actually thought Augmentation was ok. I thought the intent was to tone down nanotech in 4e, which is odd as Augmentation significantly "buffs" nanotechnology in the Shadowrun setting with only a fig leaf of restrictions with the deus ex machina of unbreakable DRM on the nanofab blueprints and operation (this is common in games that want nanotech for thematic reasons, but don't want to deal with the whole post-scarcity thing). It's no Shadowtech, but that stands as one of the top five techbooks ever written for roleplaying games IMO.

-- The concept of resleeving doesn't work in Shadowrun because of the hard link between spirit and flesh in the setting. I would posit that this link (Essence) may not work the same in space though. In Shadowrun it may even be impossible for sapient beings to live entirely in space. Consider: how does a spirit enter a newly conceived child in a mana void? Even at the lowest ebb of the cycles there was still SOME mana in the gaiasphere and a tenuous link to the astral). If you die in space is your spirit simply ripped to shreds? These are things that in-universe people would have to consider.

hi hi

-- I remember there was a segment in the 3rd ed runners companion that talked about a campaign based around the player characters being Doc Wagon employees. There's certainly lots of opportunities for alternative campaigns or plot hooks, and even if it is only used as a reference, having information about what happens in space would be useful. (outside of just: everything that happens in space is a waste of your time so forget about it.)

I've never met a great dragon in any of the runs I've been on, but that doesn't mean they don't have an effect on the game world or what happens.

-- From a metasapience point of view, I don't think consciousness is something that is infused into a body, it is something that is generated by the body and it's life. Some heavily populated space habitats have been noted as not being a total mana void because there is enough of a combined life force present. (p.119 Street Magic) A newborn child generates its own spirit as it grows, it is the inherent nature of living things. As far as I know, if you die anywhere your spirit is ripped to shreds, unless maybe you are awakened and are able to project through to the metaplanes before your [essence] hours are up and you fizzle.

-- I don't think you really need missile launchers in space, just give them a gentle shove off to the side and they'll handle the rest just fine. (though there are no rules for this as far as I know)

There also is a bit of space in the profile of Orbital DK (sic) in the pdf-only 10 Jackpointers file. Not much, but it's the most recent material.


That certainly is an interesting question. Especially since Shadowrun also has an underlying theme of reincarnation of the spirit. The immortal clones would be more like Bunraku slaves piloted by an eGhost. Not the person as such would be reborn, but a mirror, something that might think it is said person. The spirit does not transcend that way (thogh a ritual to that effect has been mentioned in one of the dragoinheart novels, what with Roxborough wanting a non-blob body back).

Maybe the Voidborn just ...lack something? Or maybe the spirit has to fight it's way through the void, and only one in ten Voidborn lives, but that normally?

Essence has more or less been established as the extent to which the body and the spirit match holistically. The essence loss by Cyberware and Bioware comes from the alteration of the body and the detachment of it's composition to the image imprinted int he spirit (though why loss of limb does not cause loss of essence, this down't explain). Similarily, the damage to the spirit caused by a creature using essence drain causes essence loss because the spirit is deformed and destroyed and thus does not match the body anymore.

As for a "shadowrun 40K" type setting, check this out. IT is at least intended to be SR in space. Please note the fusion of technologhy and magic (nethertech), which is more of an analogue to cthulhutech's arcanotech than hard scifi technology.

I see no reason why metaplanar portals cannot be opened into space. It would take much to keep them stable and control the energy output, and netherwalking into outer space surely is not smart, but I don't see why this should not be possible. The metaplanes are not, to my knowledge, all liked to the gaiasphere (and thus do not work like Twilight in the Dozor series, for instance), and as IceKatze has mentioned, manaspheres are not necessarily bound to planets, even. A larger scale space ship, or a living/hybrid space ship, might have it's own manasphere. Hence, something like arcanotechnology is worth a look, as is cybernetic engineering of stations and ships from gene-manipulated life forms (as has been mentioned way back in Shadowtech already). Of cours,e this will not happen in SR, but it might be a good idea to introduce seeds of such developments, experiments, prototypes, and research into it on one of the larger LaGrange habitats.

hi hi

I wonder how they would tell if a habitat is safe to use magic? The obvious but incredibly dangerous option is to just have a mage astrally perceive while he/she is up there. I don't recall there being a mana-o-meter in Shadowrun.

Perhaps they use something like an awakened canary, where they have it in a coma so that it isn't astrally active until they reach the habitat, then they wake it up and see if it dies horribly or not.
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I'm not sure how much sense cybernetic living habitats make, it has always been my impression that organic materials are ill suited for exposure to vacuum. I could see a genetically engineered biosphere counting though. If the life support systems; air scrubbers and filters, waste water purification, food production and air temperature were controlled by a gengineered series of bacteria, algea, krill and various plants, it could make up a substantial portion of the living compartment's volume and produce a reasonable amount of a manasphere.

This is my favorite part about the resleeving technique I described. The new clones are exactly like hermit described "Bunraku slaves piloted by an eGhost." That's what I think makes them so fascinating; they think they are the same person, but their Essence would know something was just wrong. You might even get Astral Hazing or some effect like with Cybermancy.

As for magic in space, I remember fluff descriptions form 2nd and 3rd ed (I have no way to find the actual source, sorry) that described the possibility of magic use aboard space habitats if there was a dense population of living things. If you designed your spacecraft in much the same way as you build magical security into a building, you have a ship that looks like the one in the movie Sunshine. The mages should be able to practice magic (but likely still dealing with a hefty background count) in a few areas of the ship.

Oh. hermit makes a point with the hybrid. There is a vehicle modification option called Mimic, that involves using real skin and whatnot to make a cyborg seem more real. It'd be a creepy ship, but wouldn't you be inside of it's aura if it was fully fleshed?