Conversations with the Elder suggest he knows full well what's going on, but his hands are tied by the Codex. It's the first thing he quotes whenever his worldview is challenged. At least, that's what I took from the Brotherhood chain and Veronica's chain. He can clearly see that the Vault 22 data can give them self-sufficiency, but the Codex prohibits its use.

Every other chapter in the universe (with the exception of the parent, natch) has set aside portions of the Codex and thereby prospered because of it. It's far too inflexible for the world that's shaping around them.

Meh, i gave up on the whole thing once i learned how buggy it could get and just forced my way to the ending (telling both sides to take a hike and leaving yes-man in charge).

And i had said "armor" for a while, but either sold it or wore it out.

Is it wrong that I read Elder as Eldar and that this post makes still made some strange sense in that context?

shortly before that posting, it WAS eldar in one post . .

Somewhat depressed at Vegas now - It promised so much in the way of goodness and fun, and I'm still getting stomped by the broken, undocumented and plain wonky quests. Curse you Obsidian, Curse you forever.

3 Characters at 30, know the ending and still can't try for the one I've worked so hard for, because in my imperfect youth, I dared complete a quest that would <Gasp!> break the bloated and unwieldy patchworked hunk of shit that passes for a string/structure table.
Tried something different, but because I wan't in with the NRC at the get-go, my only option is to betray the NRC over the Powdergangers, a bunch of 2-cap crooks that lasted about 4 minutes in my one-woman killing spree. And the NRC's worried about causalties to these guys? I've been hit harder (a lot harder, that was a shameful reload) by Bighorners.

Mr House, the all-knowing, all-seeing boss of Vegas ignores my balatent powergrab and dies mewling in his cradle.

The Legion turned out to be nothing more than a bunch of homoerotic poseurs with a taste for torture-porn and well-toned thighs. They said they admired strength and skill, but after I beat Caeser's Bodyguards to death with a pimp-cane, naked, all "the mighty legion" screamed was, "Die Bitch" and thew themselves to ruin.

The Great Khans would burn out as a group and wander in to the desert to die, still clutching the drugs I manufactured for them.

Yes Man doesn't care - he's not programmed to do so, but is worried anyway - I've shown no sign of mercy to anything that's caused me grief in the past, and it knows that some day, it'll screw up and there's going to be a Yes-Man 2. With Fisting action.

So far, the only thing to slow down my "Lady Death King of Murder Mountain" triple play has been deathclaws and those damned wasps.

But it's the companion quests that dick me off the most. Apart from being shallow, unkind and frightfully dickish (Boone and Ed-E's aside, I admire a good revenge if served via a hotloaded .308) they seem designed to make you hate their fate, no matter what you do to try and give these poor sad examples of the wastelands a chance.


Bah, although I do dispair at each fall of a sparrow, at least I'm tending more towards Lawful Evil. (I prefer the term, Pragmatic Evil)
I didn't kill every damn bandit, legionnaire or criminal for giggles, I'm making a better world.

-Tir
(Rant off)

There are some problems with the overall quest, and it's not as compelling as the one for F3. However, ignoring that (and I mostly have, for the past 30+ hours of gameplay), it's been fun. The Great Khans are indeed dying off, which is cool, because they were old when F1 came out. The Legion is in fact a pretty weak 'big bad enemy'. I had more trouble with the fiends, although it's amusing when firing down on a legion camp from eighty feet up a cliff face, they respond by throwing spears and rocks, like some sort of cavemen (and more amazingly, one actually hits me!) The legion has style, but by the end they tripped over their stylish silk cape and fell down the big, circular stairway. Towards the end-game, when NCR has dudes in full power armor and plasma rifles, and the legion's response is dudes with hide armor, it just got to be embarassing.

The Legion's strength is in their huge numbers of ablative meat and their elevated training of their veteran units. Unfortunately, it's not done in a manner that really translates well in the game.

Even though the NCR has a large number of troops with rifles, they still seem to lose to the Legion on a regular basis. That astounds me, especially when you as a player can single-handedly retake Nelson, close NCRCF, and level Cottonwood Cove.

Although I suppose it's not so shocking considering you can make an equally destructive PC using rifles or unarmed....

I wonder if the Legion's advantage isn't that they aren't dependent on any manufacturing facilities. Unlike the NCR, they don't require gunpowder, rifle parts, armorers, etc. They just put on their skirts, pick up some sticks, and start kicking ass. Although again, definitely not portrayed in the game, since the NCR has people roving all over the map, while the Legion is basically just on their mountain and a few guarded forts.

Because the NCR stopped them at the river and stopped them from crossing over.
If the map were bigger, you would see more or less exactly the opposite situation on the other side.
Well, if the NCR managed to keep some points there, and wasn't completely overrun.
The fact that the Legion does not use Guns baffles me as well, especially seeing how the background tells us how cesar recruited his first tribe . .
AND THAT THEY HAVE A MOTHERFUCKING HOWITZER UP THERE IN THEIR LITTLE PLAY FORT!

Oh yeah, that howitzer that doesn't work. The Boomers at least have a working set.

And the Legion does move around; they own the southeastern side of the map and roam freely around Novac. RS Charlie was overrun, in fact, and I can usually find and snipe a three-man Veteran Legionary team coming through the pass just east of it.

Well, you can make the Howitzer work, if you wanna go down that road . .
Somehow, their way of warfare seems to have more to do with black ops.
Spies, Infiltrators, Assassins, Sabotage, Murder, Terror Campaigns.

Well I've been playing this since the day it came out and finally decided to beat it (ran out of places to explore and missions to do). Walking onto the bridge with an AMR, Light Machine Gun (loaded out with AP ammo), Tesla-Beaton Prototype, Mercy (unique grenade launcher), Annabelle (unique missile launcher), and a Fat Man might have been a little overkill. All the explosions were highly entertaining though.

I have to say, my fav moment was throwing the NCR general off the bridge. I LOLed for about 5 minutes after.

Just a note, the two planned downloadable content packs are both set chronologically BEFORE the endgame of Fallout Vegas, so if you want to play them you should keep at least one saved game. Probably one from before you have to make final decisions on which end quest to complete.

And programming new content in the GECK Editor is fun.




-k

Wait . . two?
I know about Dead Money, what's the other?

Undead Money.

*haymakers* <.<;,

Wait, so now people are complaining about how FNV isn't realistic from a tactical perspective.

Complaining? I'm not. I enjoy shooting spear-chucking madmen.

They do have some points as well. The Praetorians rarely use weapons because weapons jam. If they get close (which can be done when in a covert situation) then they're going to quietly and efficiently annihilate anything they get the drop on.

I think spears is more of a strategic decision. And I wouldn't say I'm complaining, but I did notice some deficiencies. For example, patrols are usually tightly grouped and travel on obvious routes in enemy territory. Camps rarely have look-outs, and almost never more than twenty feet from the camp itself. Neither side plays to its strengths (although the NCR at least justifies it by admitting they have a terrible leader). The success of the Legion seems inexplicable though. Eventually everyone runs out of idiots to throw at the machine guns. But it does make a degree of sense within the context of the game itself, where a melee character is viable in a world where even children carry sidearms.

When I see an enemy which sticks to the military ridgeline, uses actual hit and *run* tactics and so on, then I'll be impressed.

Eh, it's still in the "rumor" stage, but if true they're going to cover New Canaan and the Burned Man, stuff that was developed for Van Buren but went unused when that project was canceled.



-k

*nods* makes sense i guess . .
the burned man is a legendary being in the mohave.
There are SO MANY places for DLC . .
The Canyon Wreckage, the Gate in outpost charly where an invisible wall is right behind the gate . .
one or two of the tunnels at least . . seeing how there's people who can fly a bomber maybe somewhere else entirely . .
or following the great khans lead . .

I'm hoping they go north.

I want to see what they did with Hawthorne, since I figure that's where the Boomers got their heavy artillery.

Actually, i'd like them to move west again . .
See what's become of the world since F².
Up north, isn't the commonwealth supposed to be up there?
Basically, the F-Universe Version of Bladerunner?

If one were going to attempt to make a melee-oriented character in FNV, what considerations would there be? I'm wanting to make such a character, but it seems that it's much tougher to do than it was in Fallout 3.

Melee-only? Or just Melee-heavy?

Max Str, good Quickness, Good Endurance, invest heavily in the stealth-based kill skills and don't forget toughness. You CAN make an awesome killer, especially when the "ignore DM" (or whatever it is) traits are taken, and Wateland Purifier is a ton of awesome, especially if you decide to dress up in that crap armour the firends wear (Wasteland blastmaster?) and go to town on them with a bumpersword.

Oh, don't forget to up survival to make poisions. Love and Hate (Unique spiked knuckles) or Chance's Knife (Unique combat knife) will insta-kill most humans. For things like deathclaws, you should be able to make a deathclaw hand/gauntlet or use the MAntis gauntlet (Ignores armour, breaks down fast) or Punchy/Paladin Can Opener. The Ballistic Fists are good, but that's a long while into the game and frankly, you need to kill things before trying to chat up the legion.

-Tir.

Going for the Bitches of Steel first will give you access to some nifty stuff to use too.
Also, melee is hard, but viable, beacue there are more punchy enemies than shooty ones, especially with the legion and all of these monsters . .

The Commonwealth sounds like it's out of MIT, but I'd like to see them as well. Maybe Fallout 4, which is still coming down the pipe.

MIT?
I guess the commonwealth is going to feature a bit more prominently in the Fallout MMORPG . .

Massachusets Institute of Technology.

The Fallout MMO will be interesting to see. Van Buren went east IIRC, towards the Brotherhood forces in Colorado/NORAD that set up shop in Tactics. There are little places everywhere that would be a hoot to have go retrofuture.

This is assuming Bethesda and Interplay ever resolve their legal issues.



-k

Well, yes. Fallout 4, however, is still on the way.

and assuming they accept Tactics as canonical to the timeline. as much as I enjoyed it, the story was weird.

I wanted to do as much melee as possible, though honestly I was regarding Deathclaws and wondering how the hell it would be possible to engage those in melee, considering they bypass armor.

Fallout tactics is, rightfully so, regarded as the worst part of the fallout franchise on the computer . .
Brotherhood of Steel mostly just gets ignored completely, because it's on a console and even worse . .

From what I remember, Van Buren treated part of Tactics as canon, namely the Brotherhood contingent that went east.

@Abs: Melee relies a lot on VATS, I've found, to be good against hard targets. On the bright side, a schlub with a Displacer Glove can take down a Deathclaw using it.

I just...like guns too much.

And there are just
. . so . . many . .
of them in fallout ^^

Don't forget, Tomahawks, throwing knives and spears all use the melee skill to do the hurt - just invest a lot of points in poisons and drain/fatigue the targets if you're scared of them eating your face.

Nothing more fun than beating an alpha Deathclaw to death with a Shovel. (Swap over to boxing gloves, swap back to shovel again.)
Unless it's killing a memember of the Fiends with a teddy bear.
Or a harmonica.
Or a vacuum cleaner. (Those things can take out a deathclaw!)

Another point to remember - Animal Friendship. (I never take it as I view the various beasties as XP on the hoof)
Get it up high enough and they come to your aid when attacked.
Makes for some mad fights - watching as an entire pack of wild dogs eat a powderganger that was offering me some grief. Not so fun when it's supermutant-hunting time, rebar clubs HURT



-Tir

Huh? Did I miss something? I don't recall Fallout having any of those.

Edit: Oh, you mean the poisons you can make in survival.

yep - get survival to a decent level and they're quite overpowered. You thought the dart-thrower in F3 made super-behemoths into lame ninnies, watch what happens if you belt someone with a thrown weapon that's coated with "-50 to all weapon skills except unarmed & 2 damage/sec" and follow up with Bleak Venom (15 dam/sec) or Mother Darkness (-3 agility, -3 perception, 8 dam/sec)

Note - deathlclaws and other beasties attack skills are NOT reduced when you apply Tremble. That was...embarrassing to discover that.

For your consideration:
Survival: 30 - Silver Sting (10 seconds duration)
Survival: 50 - Bleak Venom (10 seconds), and imho, the best for the skill points invested

-Only really go deep in to survival if you're going Hardcore, you get 3 x the stated benefit/bonus of a food if you max out survival. Note, this ALSO includes the disadvantage, Mr "I ate Ant Nectar" and am enjoying the +12 bonus to Strength (...hurr, durrr...and the -6 Int, -6 Cha)
Also note, that some (Survival 100) food benefits are broken and people are having trouble figuring out why.
It also makes Deathclaw omlettes REALLY valuable, along with the Whiskey Rose companion perk.

Survival: 75 - Mother Darkness (10 seconds)
Survival: 90 - Tremble (20seconds. try picking up that gun now, Mr Powersuit)

-FYI, Tir

They can't figure out why their survival benefits code is broken??

Think I'll be carrying around 8, including a grenade launcher, when I've gotten my hands on a couple more. I likes me some variety.

The Grenade Launcher is actually pretty sub par in my opinion . .
Even the Grenade Machine Gun does not really work as well as most Energy Rifles . .

Indeed, and the ammunition is less common. I know they were trying to increase the usefulness of Explosives, but really, they just decreased the usefulness of those particular weapons. I understand their trying to fix the Big Guns skill, but I think their solution nerfed it more.

Big Guns was rolled into Guns with Small Guns.
But for whatever reasons, things that spew grenades go into the explosives skill, instead of guns . .
Explosives should be thrown grenades, dynamite, c4 and the such <.<

So poisons are actually decent? I tried playing a survival melee build but got frustrated by the crafting stuff, things to make poison (the plant component) seemed too few and far between. I found a fair amount growing oout near boulder city or whatever it's called but that's about it. It's too bad there's not a place to buy crafting supplies.

That seems to be a re-occuring theme. If you go through NOVAC and talk to ranger andy before you get Raul you can't get/start Raul's character quest without console shenanegans, somewhat frustrating. Of course what's also frustrating is that raul is only midtier in usefullness but is a very interesting characters.

My rating of the FNV PC from a usefulness perspective
Boone/ED-E
Arcade
Raul/Cassidy
Nightkin chick
Dog

Which is a shame as Boone and Ed-E are both available the earliest (depending on your skills) and are pretty awesome as combos but are boring a shit. Cassidy, Arcade, and Especially Raul are all signifigantly harder or more tedius to get your hands on.

Did you completely forget Veronica(the templar chick), I kinda like a combo of her and Boone(I'm using unlimited companions mod)

Veronica is not a templat but a member of the Bitches of Steel.
And just fun to have around.
Give her Oh Baby and see stuff explode ^^

I did I've been playing on hardcore and hand't been making much use of her because she kept getting seperated from me on indoor maps and dying horribly. (even in power armor, much to my chagrin).

Boone/ED-E
Arcade/Veronica
Raul/Cassidy
Nightkin chick
Dog


Arcade's side perk is not that great but he kicks a fair amount of butt with that laser pistol of his.

Nightkin Chick = Aunt Lily.
She was 75 years old, when she was dipped.
Arcade is using a Plasma Defender, not a Laser Pistol.