…Toad? Seriously? Never mind that amphibious transports are named after peninsulae, not animals!

~J

Yeah, the German names are not in any way better. Apparently Aaron was being funny when he wrote this. It's too many names like these to ignore. Since I know no Japanese, could you please have a look at all the japanese names and point out any that are ridiculous to stupid?

I don't know German at all
How rediculous/stupid ARE the german names?

Imagine an anti-air system named chien-oiseau, the cave recon vehicle, an aircraft carrier class by the name mère-poule, or the "subalterne" submarine class.

Wow.. that's.. special.

Does the one ESPRIT vehicle name have any funny meaning? I only found an obscure small sail in a dated sails combination for Fouche, but I'm not that well versed in French myself.

Seems like this is intentional, though, rather than pure accident. Which would imply it's intended as a deliberate insult from the author to all non-Americans. Which ... would be quite the assholish.

Is it me, or did aircraft carriers have a massive drop in price?

What's the full ESPRIT name? I don't have war. I downloaded a copy from a website, did a quick scan and then deleted it. (I was trying to decide if I wanted to buy it)

It's the name of a Lotus sports car?

Or just a joke.

So if someone was doing a Supplement for a German game.. and they called a Ford Tank: The Ford Capitalist Pig Dog, or the Ford BaconCheeseburger You'd find that.. completely amusing.

If someone can post the names; I don't buy SR4 books, and if I were to make an exception it certainly sounds like it wouldn't be for this book

Also, I should note for fairness that the "toad" name isn't a howler, it's just wrong and a little weird.

~J

Esprit Foque Amphibious Assault Craft

Foque: means nothing
Foc : is a type of Sail
Phoque: Seal

Esprit =Spirit

Spirit Seal Amphibious Assault Craft

Its kinda just non-sensical.
Esprit might be the name of the company? I guess
It's also the Model name for a Lotus.

Who needs that when one have the Hummer?

It's true, they might as well have just called that thing The BlowJob.. but the US Army might not have bought so many

Certainly.




Yes, it's the company. ESPRIT Industries is a creature of SR France and basically a number of French aeronautics and weapons companies rolled into one and given a cool name. And given the naming convention in France this probably needs to be revised too ...


Hey, I have some ideas too:

- The CAS Naval Systems Uncle Tom class merchant liner
- The NeoNET McVeigh MLRM vehicle
- The New York class suicide attack plane (a larger version of the Arsenal missile drone)
- The Ares Abu Ghureib class luxury cruise liner.

Isnt't hat just funny?!

As far as I can tell,* they're all gibberish.

Edit:
Jigoku = hell
Tenshi = angel
kōgeki = attack **
Ōkami = god or wolf
Isokaze = "Wind on the Beach" (name of a real Kagero-class destroyer)
Suzume = sparrow
Hōshō = "flying phoenix" (name of the first ship ever commissioned that was designed and built as an aircraft carrier for the Imperial Japanese Navy)

*Yay google. Edit: don't trust a romaji translator. It works best when it starts with Japanese characters, not romaji.
**Most relevant thing I can kind for kōgeki is tokubetsu kōgeki tai meaning "special attack forces."

Ogaki means either Great God or Wolf
Tenshi means Angel
Suzume /might/ mean Sparrow
Kogeki are "attack forms" in Aikido
Jigoku is Hell
Isokaze is the name of a Kagero-class destroyer of the Imperial Japanese Navy. It means Wind on the Beach.
Hosho is flying phoenix, and is the name of the first Japanese Air Craft Carrier.

sabs
3rd Dan Black Sash
Google Fu

Keiler sounds sensible then. Something along the line of using boars to rut for truffles? Or plowing open the ground? I've been told boars do that.


For the same reason there are guns called "Crusader"? It sounds tough-guy like. Alo, in the fallout from the New Jihad and such, I guess maybe crusading isn't so politically incorrect anymore.



From what I can determine it's a breed of hunting dog used when hunting birds. Does it have AA duties perhaps?

Tribute?


High speed/chase vehicle I guess?

Granted, some of those names are a bit wonky, but not all of them.



Nah, that'd be too obvious, because most Germans can read English.




I do believe Esprit is a French weapons manufacturer yeah.



Honestly people. Weapon naming by different companies doesn't have to be uniform.

Hey, they don't last long against thor shots.

Even a miss would create dangerous tidal waves.

The best part is that the Japanese character in that wikipedia entry does not, in fact, translate to "great god" but to "cabinet minister!"

That's an American fetish, mostly.


Sure, it's a kangaroo hound.

Vogelhund actually is a very obscure breed of dog who carry birds shot down back to the hunter.


More than 50% of the German names. And it's not like there aren't German freelancers Aaron could have asked, but no, he doesn't need that ...

It comes with a portable dish – and Unwired has general rules for directional antennas with a +2 Signal gain. So basically, the sat uplink only has a Signal 6 radio, too.

Ogaki is actually great ghost. Okami/ogami is great spirit/wolf, which is the play on words they used in the video game to rationalize Amaterasu taking the form of a wolf.

Of all of the things to get annoyed at, naming things after the wrong type of item is a very small one; they may not match our naming conventions NOW, but that's not too strange, since it's 60 years in the future. Naming conventions for almost every type of US military hardware has changed since 60 years ago, and I expect it will again. I'm not defending the *intelligence* of some of these names, but I am defending them being different from what you'd expect.

Hell, the BMW sports car in arsenal (a variant of one of the listed types) is the BMW 4000GT, and that doesn't match any BMW naming scheme yet extant. It would probably be the M4, or 450 M Coupe or something, but hey. Naming schemes change. The 2002 doesn't match BMW's current naming scheme either, because they changed to the new type naming scheme when they phased out the Neue Klasse models.

Right. Because Lofwyr and Dunkie where such close homies that Goldmaster would want to give his departed buddy a shout out.

I did a spit take when I first read that.

It'd be okay if we only had the Kreuzritter. But an aircraft carrier that translates to overprotective mother? Sorry, no.

That IS kinda funny

Okami IFV: wolf. Could be worse, I guess; IFVs/tanks/APCs don't get names in current practice, so it isn't going against tradition or anything. Well, aside from naming things after land animals to begin with.

Kogeki Fast Attack Vehicle: now this is a howler. Literally translated, this is the "Attack Fast Attack Vehicle".

Suzume Fighter-Bomber: sparrow? Seriously?

Jigoku Ground Assault T-Bird: the "Hell Ground Assault T-Bird". I can't decide if this is better or worse than the Attack FAV.

Tenshi Assault Personnel Carrier Helicopter: the "angel". By miraculous coincidence Japanese helicopter naming convention (to the extent that the helicopters are named at all) is somewhat whimsical—there's a scout helo named the "Ninja"—so this is defensible.

Isokaze-Class Destroyer: good news and bad news. The good news is that this one's spot-on; it follows the convention of destroyers being named after weather, it's an appropriate weather phenomenon, etc. The bad news is, that's because it's a preexisting Destroyer class from 1916.

Hosho-Class Amphibious Assault Carrier [unsure if this is supposed to be Russian or Japanese]: looks Japanese, too much ambiguity in the naming to be sure of what they meant—but the bad news is that this is probably named after the aircraft carrier, which means that the naming convention is off plus we're talking about another collision with preexisting names.

~J

Yep, that's why they named a tank with mine flays like that. For a tank which does not plow the earth it doesn't sound that fitting.


And exactly for that reason, the current Bundeswehr would not name it like that. The official ideal of a German soldier is that of the "uniformed citizen" with high moral standards, so that never again people will follow criminal orders without questioning their superiors. And for that reason, anything which looks too aggressive is officially frowned upon. In reality, don't make it so obvious that the higher-ups can no longer claim they didn't know.

Paradox? Sure, but that's the way things work.

And I'd say a modern-day US weapon called "Indian killer" would be the better comparison


Yep, still a very unusual word


Anthropomorphic fallacy?


Nope, "missile boat". And while I appreciate the unintentional Mechwarrior reference, in naval lingo a "boat" either is a submarine, or something carried by a ship (68752348752 exceptions nonwithstanding). "Guided missile destroyer" would be a more fitting term.

Mmmm Bacon

*Points off in the distance*

Thread topic is over there.

(The names in the book have nothing to do with the original purpose of the thread)

*whistles innocently*

You're quite certain you understand what "gear" means, right? You know, the stuff that has these names?

~J

This is the wrong thing to do, but I'm going to throw in some explanations about the names, because there seems to be some real interest. Those who want to tear me apart (and would do so anyway) are welcome to do so afterward. And to add to the ammo for the folks who want to tell me how much I suck, one of my degrees is in Linguistics, and I lived in West Germany for a time as a teenager.

Let's see ...

• The Keller should be the Keiler, as some folks have noticed.
• Yes, Dunkelzahn is a tribute name. We already do that sort of thing today. While I doubt the authorization for the name came from Lofwyr himself, I reckon he's got enough class to allow the tribute to the fallen rival to stand; maybe he's a complete bastard in your game, that's okay.
• It's called the Glucke because it watches over it's little drones.
• The Vogelhund is named for a vehicle in SOTA 63, and I had nothing to do with naming it. I was thinking to correct it, but after doing a bit of research I discovered that "Vogelhund" is a real surname, so I gave the original author the benefit of the doubt.
• Kreutzritter should have been Kreuzritter. It's a reference to BattleTech (feel free to open up about what a bad person I am for that). Interesting trivia: there's a divide in CGL between CBT and SR people, too; one CGL person was shocked when I stepped away from my empty SR demo to cover a CBT demo.
• I vaguely recall someone saying that Abdullah was Turkish and not Arabic. Someone should probably tell the kings of Jordan and Saudi Arabia. Anyway, this name is a continuation of the push by Ares into Middle Eastern markets (mentioned in Corp Guide).
• Foque isn't French in this case, it's Picard. It's slang for a small flow of customers. Totally unrealistic pun in the world of military equipment names, I grant you, but I didn't think anyone would catch it (nor did I check to see if it meant anything in French).
• Regarding the Suzume, I only lived in Japan for a very brief time, but the friend I was visiting assures me that the understatement is appropriate.

There's what I remember off the top of my head. To those who are interested, enjoy! To those who just want to eviscerate me, that should be enough ammo to keep you busy for a day or two, enjoy!

Merry Everything, everyone!

I a disagree, it asks what needs fixing in the Gear and Rules.
The Gear Name is definitely a part of that.

We're totally on topic!

/shrug, alright so the names are sort of related, but what I gathered from the OP is that he was wanting a discussion on the mechanics of the new gear. I dont think the names were all that important, I mean, yes, some of these sound silly when you translate it but (since I am an American and *insert some sort of all american comment here), I dont really care about the names and doubt that many other people do. After all it sounds fine if we dont translate it (again, *insert some sort of all american comment here*).



I tried,

@Sengir: but in the SR timeline, Europe was invaded by Russia and the Caliphate. I think that should be enough to change the perspective on crusading to a more positive one.

Look, this is actually one of the few names that really fits:
Not in spite of him being a complete bastard – but because he is. With a sense of humor. Naming an air superiority fighter like that will really piss off a certain someone living in Denver. Check DotSW.

And since you're not an idiot (I give you the benefit of doubt here), I take it that those names were deliberatly chosen to spite all non-American readers of this book. Well ... speaks for itself, really.


Maybe the wacko theocracy in Westphalia (which makes no sense at all) would want that, but other than that, no. Calling things crusader is an American fetish.

@Aaron: Thanks btw. I always enjoy author commentary on why they did things a particular way

Eh, maybe—I can't find a named Japanese-produced fighter-bomber from the post-Imperial Japan era on ja.wikipedia, but the Imperial-era naming tended to things like "falcon", "fire dragon", "dragonslayer", "swift wind", and, granted, "flying swallow"; my above level of incredulity might have been excessive (in my defense, I'd just encountered the Kougeki), but it still seems like a decent-sized additional step towards understatement. In light of the 飛燕, though, I think it can be clearly classified as "not a howler".

~J

I don't believe you ever will, either. I seem to recall that the Japanese are forbidden from manufacturing such military hardware - or forbade themselves from same. After all, they don't even have a standing military, their SDF's are considered police.

He's a dragon traditionalist in YOUR game. "Shout-out to ma homeboy D-Pac" is the new draconic burial rite?


Sounds like just the kind of unflattering name soldiers give their gear, like the self-propelled wheelblock (aka. airmobile weapons carrier Wiesel ). Not how a company would call it


I recently bought some MtG cards from a guy whose name translates as "wifebeater", so...


@Ascalaphus: If anything, those wars increased the size of the local Muslim minority.

There're the F-1 and the F-2, both fighter/attacker planes developed in Japan. the F-2 is based on the American F-16 fighter, but has been redesigned to an extent that it'S more a new kind of plane. The F-1 supposedly is an independent development and only totally looks like a Jaguar.

Neither seems to have a special model name though.

Thank you.

I can't speak for other writers, but I love talking about the fiddly bits and niggling details of why things were done the way they were done. I'm one of those people who really like director commentaries on DVDs (check out the one for Ronin; it's really good).

Feel free to ask about they whys of anything. If I don't know the answer, I can find out. Although, quick caveat not directed to any particular person: if you're disingenuously asking me something so you can be rude, I'll still probably answer if the question seems sincere enough, but don't expect to be respected in the future.

Tell that to the Ministry of Defense and Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, currently producing the 心神 stealth jet fighter. There are several modern Japanese-produced fighter-bombers, they just don't have whimsical names to go along with their designations.


The Japanese constitution forbids the use of war as an instrument of policy, but that's been significantly eroded (in no small part at the behest of the US)—the JSDF was deployed to Iraq in 2004, for example, and they're now officially referred to as a military organization.

Edit:


Yeah, that's what I meant by "named".

~J

The difference a little word makes. Sorry, missed that.

As for the 心神, I get mostly images of Raptors looking that up ... is it a licensed build or a plane that is often compared to the F22?

The latter; after trying to purchase the F22 and being repeatedly turned down, the Japanese government decided to go ahead with their own design.

~J

For factual correction John Dunn hasn't been missions co-ordinator since roughly the Denver set, or at least before I started playing/writing. Which was several years ago real time, so that shouldn't be a huge concern. As Bull covered in another thread, War will be in, warts and all, optional rules are as always not allowed, the gear will be in but most of the really bad stuff has prohibitively high availability ratings. The magic spells and junk i don't like are problematic but we've already got possession mages in and in my non-official non-universal opinion is that they and peoples poor understanding of the magic rules are actually more of a problem then anything in the war book.

Touching on that point above Hermit, is there some downright silly things in war? Certainly, but that's nothing new, I can't think of a single SR book I own that has some crunch in it, and several that are mostly fluff, that doesn't have some blatantly stupid crap. I'm not sure why, typographical errors non-withstanding, that this ones got you on such a warpath. I'm still working my way through the book and to be honest while it's definitely not my favorite book ever, but i have seen worse. Is that a valid defense for a product? No, it's just my opinion as a customer. I paid for a book, I got a book. It's not amazing but it's not a terrible slur on the product line. To put it in broaderer terms I think it's a Zune and not a first gen Red Ring Xbox360. I know people who like their Zune and get use out of it.

Now in regards to Missions quality, naturally as I work on missions and like to be involved in them as much as possible I think they are pretty good, especially given that our production cycle is to put it bluntly, brutal, and I have been one of the strongest critics of how we do operations internally and externally. Have there been flaws, sure, New York saw three campaign admins over the course of it's life, and that showed in both the release schedule and internal consistency including mission pay and the affiliation rewards/missions. But on the whole I think if you enjoy playing Shadowrun, enjoy the social and persistent aspects of "living" campaigns, or just want some pre-built stuff to either run out of the box or use as a resource missions are a gold mine and well worth the extremely nominal cost.

Refs:
http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?showtopic=33769

Disclaimer: The above opinions are strictly my own and should only be taken as such. Use only as directed, call your streetdoc if painful irritation persists. Call your shrink if you start to take any of this too seriously.