He isn't the one who started with the snark with the "This is Shadowrun not <insert random other thing here>". The OP created this thread to move away from the first one where people were attacking Tippy, and as soon as Tippy brings in an on-topic suggestion complete with numbers showing how much it could make, then people start with the snarkiness (don't think that's a word, but oh well).

No one has said he is having Wrong Fun. What has been said is that the Fun he is having is not standard for Shadowrun, and any comparisons are pretty irrelevant between the styles. That is a Big Difference. Or do I have the Wrong topic? I am so confused.

Nah, you pretty much have the right one. Let me pull up a quote to explain:

The problem I'm seeing here is that in this post, you're telling him what his character should think. I get that, in your games, your characters would never want to do this; clearly, however, the OP is assuming that his character would. Guess whose opinion on the OP's character matters?

Put differently, the OP can be read as "Assume premise A. How much X can we generate from Y?" You're basically saying "Premise A is stupid," which is completely unhelpful to the question being asked.

And by "you," I mean everyone talking about how 'Runners don't do this in their games. Yes, okay, I get it, you all disagree that they should do it, but that is not the premise of this thread. Those of us who are at least interested in the possibility would like to go back to discussing how effectively it can be done without being yelled at about how our characters are thinking wrong in games you all aren't even in.

You could make tons of money in the SR world doing other stuff besides Shadowrunning.

You could also make tons of money in D&D without adventuring at all.

That really isn't the point of these kinda of games, though.

There's a huge number of moneymaking schemes that would work. It's not like there's some secret technique that's difficult to do. Hell, just go and steal cars to sell them.

But then it stops being Shadowrun.



-k

So somehow, when I decide to steal cars for a bit instead of talking to Mr. Johnson, I immediately stop rolling D6s and looking for 5s and 6s?

As long as you're playing with the rules, you're playing Shadowrun.

It is not that I am saying the proposal is Stupid. I am saying that implementing the proposal results in the game no longer being about Shadowrun. It is something else, and so asking for comparisons to Shadowrun and earning money in your down time is counter productive. There is no comparison.

Anyways, as KarmaInferno indicated, there are many ways to make more money in the game than the Premise of the game addresses.

Actually, at that point, you are just using the System, but you are not actually playing Shadowrun. Now you are playing Grand Theft Auto.

I know you were being fecitious, but Day Job is way under paid, and requires SINner and a few other bits.

However, you're right that I am sort of crafting a "Night Job" quality. It would have a higher payout than Day Job, but more risks. And would probably come with a couple neg quals like Distinctive Style or the like.

And re: Standard Fun: There's an argument that, per rules at least, this is Standard Fun. Given that a skill level of 5 is defined as a professional athlete, 6 is Peyton Manning, and 7 is Gretzky, I find it kind of hard to argue. I would contend that we might be better served with 10 point attributes or the like. But that's outside this discussion. But given that a 400 bp runner probably has at least. 5 attribute and a 5 skill, base runners are at least as skilled as NFL players, or corporate VPs. They can certainly have a myriad of reasons to be running, but if their core reason is to make money, they should have a concurrent issue that prevents them from doing so in a legal fashion.

I don't think that's the way most people play it, including me. But it's worth noting that the average runner is pretty above average.

But. Back to the main topic.

If you ignore 40 hits via buying, let's talk averages. 14 dice. On average, that's 4.666666 hits and 2.33333333 1's. I'd bet someone with good stats knowledge could work out how likely you are to glitch and crit glitch per 100 rolls, and how much edge you'd need to reroll it away.

If you accept 40 hits - what can an armorer make with 40 hits? Per the rules, you only need 16 hits to build an intricate item. I don't know where a drone falls exactly, but can it be more than 20 hits to make a car? I don't really have a concept of what 40 hits would do, but I think it's a lot.

Ach, so what ye be sayin' noo is that No True Scotsman would ever play Shadowrun this way?

That doesn't cut it to me. Shadowrun is the system, and by definition anything played with that system is Shadowrun. That's the whole point of what the core book says on page 15: There's no right or wrong way to play this game... and either way, you're still playing.

Build tests are always extended. They have a duration and that duration is up to the GM to determine.

Patently False...
Just becasue you can use the Shadowrun System to play Star Wars does not make the game Shadowrun. It is Star Wars using the Shadworun System. Likewise, if you are using the Shadowrun System to play Jimmy the Drug Lord, it is not Shadowrun. Shadowrun requires a certain world view and when you go outside of that world view, you lose any resemblance to what Shadowrun is.

I, personally, use Feng Shui to run my Star Wars Games (and also have a Shadowrun and Battle Tech World layout as well, for those times where Pink Mohawk is King)... that does not make those worlds Feng Shui. It makes it Star Wars (Shadowrun or Battletech) using a Feng Shui Interface. The Fluff is not the System. The Fluff is the Structure of the World. The Mecahnics are the system, and they can be independant of the fluff.

I would add in that under the standard PC build rules virtually every player character will have exceptional skills, ware, etc.


I would change that to "Money is never the reason why a Shadowrunner is running the shadows, unless he wants 9 figures or more."

The rules make this manifestly possible in a number of ways.


This is a manifestly false assumption and a manifestly false conclusion.


Except under the rules they actually don't. Runners can make more money running the shadows but it requires decent payments and not the farce that is Mission payouts. In the games I play in Runners do make more money running than they would doing pretty much anything else but as both a player and GM we are more than willing to throw out 10K pay days for even the most trivial of runs and anything with real difficulty can easily end up with a six or seven figure pay day.


This is again manifestly false.


At the skill level PC runners operate at the corps don't care if you diddle little boys and then torture them to death. Especially if you are a mage or technomancer. And if the PC's were really that dysfunctional then they are unlikely to have acquired their skills and ware in the first place.

Except, much like the corps, the syndicates don't really care what you do so long as you provide their cut. Try to move your two hundred thousand worth of drugs on the street and the syndicates will be displeased, sell your 200,000 worth of drugs to the syndicate at 30% of street price (60,000 nuyen) and you will be their best friend.


There is no reason that the corp should realize anything different whether you have a Johnson or not.


I could walk into any real life city tomorrow and walk out with a job to courier 10K worth of drugs across the nation for a 2K payday upon delivery. This is in real life without any applicable runner skills. Someone with a shadowrunners skill set? A few thousand is chump change.


Except your premises are basically made up whole cloth and don't actually stand up to even the most basic of analysis.

A runner could easily say "You know what? I don't want to run against corps and the like, it is way too risky and requires way too much planning. I will instead do street level runs." and then your payments and premises make sense, but without such a decision by the runner they don't.

And that was what I was talking about with No True Scotsman: You're saying that a character who wants to spend time making money with his skills isn't a *real* Shadowrunner, despite the fact that this is perfectly possible both in the rules and in the setting.

So, in sum:

1. You're imposing your interpretation of the fluff on everyone else's game.
2. You're ignoring several characters in canon (the aforementioned Kat O' Nine Tails and Turbo Bunny) who are prominent 'Runners that make money in the off hours.
3. You're telling me that if I don't subscribe to your interpretation of the fluff, I'm not playing Shadowrun--even if I'm playing a prepublished adventure in the Shadowrun setting with the Shadowrun rules.

This is a textbook example of the No True Scotsman fallacy.

Exactly. Your enemy list would also include governments, corps, law enforcement, street gangs and smugglers. Being a big player would bring a lot of heat from all sides.

If you want to make any big money legitimately, you had better be a SINner.

This reminds me of a story someone told me about an old edition of D&D. Apparently, there was a rule about earning a small amount of experience points for transcribing scrolls. One character who was able to write sat out a campaign, and spent the time as a scribe. By the end of the campaign, he had more experience points than the characters that went on the campaign! Rules that allow things like that are really lame.

Except that that statement is untrue. If you choose to build best in the World Runners, maybe, but if you actually build to the game world, then you will see a lot of characters in the 8-12 dp range. Most of my builds start in that range and advance from there (most do not even have skills above a 3 or 4). Yes, you CAN start with 20+ DP in skills, but you really should be asking yourself if you should (Sorry... Hot topic for me, I will try to resist ranting about it).

But, as long as you have fun, it doesn't really matter, I guess.

If the Character is taking the time to make use of his skills, and makes more money in his off time than his "Shadowrunning Time" he will not actually Shadowrun because he will make more money in other endeavors. At this point, it is not Shadowrun. Shadowrun has very specific fluff that makes it so. If you remove that fluff and do not use it, then it cannot be called Shadowrun. At best, it is a game that uses the Shadowrun System to resolve situations. Again, It is not the smae thing.

1. Actually, I am not.
2. Neither Turbo Bunny nor Kat of Nine Tails makes money in the Hundreds of Thousands to Millions in their off time (I have yet to see ANY reference to how much they actually make, in fact), as has been advocated here. In fact, the write-up for Turbo Bunny says she works in a small time garage. Hard tro imagine that she makes more money there than running the Shadows. Don't you think?
3. Again, I am not. I am saying that the FLUFF makes the game, not the System. If I play Star Wars using the Shadorun System (or Feng Shui, Or D20, or Whatever), I am NOT PLAYING SHADOWRUN. I am playing Star Wars.

I am sorry, I do not have that particular Textbook.

I am not saying you cannot make money from skills on the side, I am saying that you are not going to make absurd amounts of money doing so, and apparently you (and Emperor Tippy) seem to be arguing that you can. And in my opinion, that is wrong.

There's where you're wrong. You're assuming that the only reason to go on a Shadowrun is money. Let me pull out Attitude--and, incidentally, address your point about Kat O' Nine Tails:


There you have it, in the canon: People who can and do make more money on their day job go running for the fun of it.

Never said they could not make money on a day job. Nor did I say you could not run for the fun of it. In fact, there are many runners who make money on a day job. They just do not tend to make a absurd amounts of money on that day job. We have a 'Runner in our group that runs for the hell of it (because he does not really care about the money, and it is fun), doesn't mean he makes millions of Nuyen on the side, which is what I have been continuously commenting against here. You can not care about the money and still be required to run the Shadows to pay the bills; or you can have a bit of money, and run for the hell of it.

Is there an actual writeup of Kat of Nine Tails that tells you her quality of living and how much money she has? If not, then your argument is still vapor-ware. If so, Please let me see it, or tell me in what book I can find it. Personal ego-waving from an in character comment does not a rationale make for allowing crazy amounts of Nuyen to be earned by 'Runners in their downtime.

Yes he does, he just doesn't do it because he needs money(just like a multitude of canon runners).

Kat flat out says she doesn't run for money in Attitude.

Does not mean that she is loaded, though... Which this particular topic is apparently about. Making tons of money in your Non-Shadowrunning endeavors, so that you don't have to worry about the minutia and can therefore charge exorbitant prices for your services.

Oh, but yes, yes it is! Yu see, if someone finds such not-shadowrun-related activities fun from time to time?

That, Sir, is all that ever has, or ever should, matter. As long as the players are enjoying themselves (and not at the expense of other people), then they are playing the game correctly.

She's the lead singer of an award-winning band that has been on multiple national tours and at least one global one. I am fairly certain this means she's loaded.

But that is nothing but an Assumption on your part. How many Mega Pop Stars, Award Winning Bands, or Mega Movie Stars with Local, National and Global tours/Releases are broke today. A fair amount of them, actually. And this is not the Dystopian World that the 6th World is. I am sure that she MAKES a lot of money, and I am also pretty certain most of it goes right back out the door for things not under her control. There is a difference between making millions and having millions, after all.

But it looks like we are not going to agree on this one. No Worries. As I said before (in this thread or another, I cannot remember), if you are having fun, that is all that matters, even if you are obviously playing a different game than I am .

I never said anything about "correctly" or not. They can be having fun doing this. But if you're stealing cars for a living, or running a talismonger operations, or whatever non-shadowrun job you can imagine to make a living, at that point it's using the Shadowrun rules to... not Shadowrun.

It's built into the damn name of the game, fer chrissakes.

It's like playing a game titled "FIGHT" and deliberately not fighting. You may be using the system, but you're not playing the game.

Again, I'm not talking "right" or "wrong" or even whether it's fun or not. But when you're getting away from what the core of the game revolves around, you've stopped playing the game and are merely using the mechanics to so something else.



-k

I would suggest that, at least originally, this topic was a thought exercise to see what someone could make using their skills in non-running situations.

And I am pretty certain that I answered that question earlier in the thread...

Not to troll, but the only people I've seen given any actual answers to the question of "How much can a runner make using their skills" are Emperor Tippy, Pax, and Neraph. Tippy has a fair number of posts, Pax and Neraph one each (both with hard numbers, which I appreciate)!

Everything else in the 4 pages so far is about the meta game, or whether or not people should do it, or statements that the premise is patently broken, or statements that the premise is patently legit, or the like.

Answering with "I wouldn't do that" leads to the circle of debates again.

My main take away so far is that mages have it easiest, in that they can refine reagents in a perfectly safe, perfectly legal, massively profitable way.

To clarify, as you bring it up, lorechaser:
I was trying to answer the question with the example of the talismongering mage, while expressing my personal concerns.
The skills used were skills that the character was not built with as a 'core'. And technically, this adventure was no Shadowrun and happened in her downtime.

I deliberately chose the talismongering way as it is a rather legal way to make massive amounts of money, so I agree with you there
I still wouldn't reduce it to dicerolls and I would most certainly introduce ways to make it less easy
For example, there's been in-universe blurbs by Lyran (I think) how overrun and fiercely competitive the market for Telesma is. There's even a story about competing talismongers somewhere, constantly trying to 1-up each other.
But yeah, reduced to numbers, I'd go with this one.

And not to be a Jerk, but I did reply. The question was How reasonable was the premise. It is unreasonable, based upon the fluff of the world. What more need be said. He asked if it was reasonable, and many people have said that it was not, and then gave the reasons why they felt that way. *shrug*

Sorry that you did not actually like that response, but there you go.

Can you back up that opinion about fluff with anything from the books?

So ... it's not Dungeons and Dragons, if yu don't have both a dungeon and a dragon show up, in every single session?

It's not "Mutants and Masterminds" if none of the PCs nor the NPCs are actually mutants ...?

...

I reject that notion, in it's entirety.






You don't even have to be a Mage, to take Enchanting. You can be "any schlub who bothered to learn".






No, it wasn't. The question was, and this is an exact quote, "How much Nuyen can a runner make when they aren't running?"

That's it. End of question.

Nowhere in there was any query about the premise, or it's reasonableness.

No game of M&M is ever a game of M&M.

Come on, have you ever seen an M&M PC that could possibly be called a mastermind? Ever?

Let's try a different tactic.

My PC's are planning a shadow run against a local highly skilled individual.

Assume that he has 6 in a particular skill, and 6 in a particular attribute, and an additional 3 to 4 dice in his pool for his particular focus. They know that he deposits all of his nuyen earned that month at the end of the month. We're trying to figure out about how much money we would expect him to have on hand after that month, assuming he didn't buy anything significantly outside his lifestyle. Anyone have any thoughts on how much money this civilian will have when the shadow runners broke into his place?

If you need specific examples, what if he was a freelance mage? a freelance hacker? a freelance rigger? a freelance artist? a freelance consultant?

This.

Seriously, the goalposts have moved so many times in this thread in regards to what constitutes "legitimate" Shadowrun according to personal/arbitrary standards. In the first several pages, we were successively told that you're not a "real" Shadowrunner unless 1) that's your primary source of income, 2) it's "interesting" to the character, 3) you are engaged in the activity of shadowrunning, as classically defined, and/or 4) it's your "worldview" (whatever that means).

Of course, that means that per (1), if you don't get paid, whatever you did wasn't a shadowrun. Per (2), all reluctant runner archetypes are out. Per (3), published materials describing alternate campaign settings are by definition, not the game they are. Per (4)...honestly, I don't think that's even worth exploring.

I seriously do not understand the reactions of people on these boards. Someone asks for help understanding how the rules pertain to having half a dozen arms? Fine. Someone wants to know how many dice they could get as the world's greatest con man? Meme-worthy. Someone asks about economics? He's a traitor to the cause and should feel bad about himself. Shame, shame; tsk, tsk.

Good grief.

This is why people lurk.

And now that my spleen has been cleansed...

Generally speaking, it might be helpful to remember that in very, very broad terms, people get paid for two reasons: goods and services. In regards to goods, so far the popular categories seem to be drugs, software, and telesma. Services have been a bit thin on the ground, but I'd suggest that if nothing else, the Instruction skill is always going to be in demand, for both legal and illegal applications.

Other ideas not touched upon yet:

• Magical skills: commercial applications of summoned spirits (watchers get mentioned explicitly for this purpose in the books), assensing (as some sort of foci inspector), whatever the going rate for loaned services is, mage-for-hire as part of a ritual spellcasting endeavor (legal or otherwise), etc.
• Physical skills: palming as a form of street-hustling, shadowing as a PI gig, instruction of certain skills in a legal context (gymnastics, diving, swimming, etc.)
• Social skills: moonlighting as a hostage negotiator for law enforcement, a corporate arbitrator, teach Leadership to aspiring MBA students, whatever
• Technical skills: artist/activist, mechanic, drug dealer, computer programmer, research assistant (academic or underworld), part-time gig with DocWagon, neighborhood Street Doc, forging fake SINs for other runners, physical/magical therapist for recovering patients, etc.
• Language skills: translator, tutor

Obviously, the skill/know/lingua-soft economy is going to reduce the going rate for a lot of these abilities. But that assumes that you're operating at an economic level where that even makes a difference...after all, mid/high-level software isn't going to show up in a campaign that doesn't have access to that sort of technology. A digital service economy doesn't push skilled labor out, it just pushes it down.

And as a note from someone who usually winds up being the GM...I love it when my players put this kind of thought into making ends meet...so many shadowruns basically write themselves (imagine if the girl you're instructing in gymnastics is the daughter of a russian mobster, the business you sent your watcher spirit to boycott hires someone to make you stop, your moonlighting as a street doc puts you between two factions who threaten to harm you if your patient dies/doesn't die, etc.

That sounds like Shadowrun to me.

And now, back to lurking.

Honestly, if someone goes by what seems to be a common consensus among GMs both on this forum and the other one, why wouldn't a Runner do everything in their power to make more money off of their other skills during down time? The payouts I'm always hearing people saying they prefer to give, especially those who outright say they prefer the games they run to be "street level" *shudders violently*. With such low payouts, you should expect your players to be looking for any and all side methods of making money (and if your players are doing this, take this as a sign that you are not giving the payouts that they feel their characters should be getting).



Every point here makes perfect sense from the standpoint of individuals with a "particular set of skills" to expect very high amounts of money paid to them per job. Those who are in the biz for the money would be doing everything in their power to get those "wage slave" positions if they didn't think that Running was more lucrative in both the SHORT and long terms.

To address the "but...but you won't be playing Shadowrun any more" comments, well, maybe one wouldn't be playing YOUR skewed view of Shadowrun, but yes, they are in fact still playing Shadowrun.

52 734 nuyens exactly.

Seriously, you can't answer that question with a clear answer. Even if you just read the official books. Payouts will vary greatly from one official adventure to another, and so will the ability to get money on the side. The freelancers all have a different vision of the world, and most of the time the books are vague enough to allow many different interpretations to nearly everything.

That's why people tell how they'll handle it, because it will actually be different from one gaming group to another.

You really should read the original post in its entirety... Here is the relevant point I was making...



See that quote... Third Sentence (bolded it for you , even)... What does it say?

And again... It is unreasonable...

EDIT: Marwyn had a good point. Let me clarify above. 5,000-10,000 Nuyen may be reasonable (hell, that is Day Job Levels with a bit of fame). 100,000 Nuyen is definitely not Reasonable. The 900,000 Nuyen that was bandied about somewhere above is entirely ludicrous. Hopefully that will clarify my position a bit.

He was asking if it was reasonable that a runner that isn't running earns 10k a month. Not whether the premise was reasonable.

DS seems to get hung up on that.

It's a good question to ask: if runners are primarily motivated by money, why aren't they doing something else?

Well, some runners hate the corp system. They don't really fit in with most of the civilized world. They run because they have to; to earn money for food, shelter, protection. Some run because they want to, because they can't do anything else, and money's just a necessary part of life.

I've run into this problem myself, this is now my third attempt at a "Hunter Mage" who goes out hunting for stuff to shoot/mine/extract and refine on this own. Not a powerful mage by any means, but still it's apparent that he can make loads more money by going mostly legit. This was meant to be a backstory for the guy, to explain why he fell into the shadows. But without inserting an arbitrary angry organization, he could make a killing selling magical goop.

The debate of what makes a runner a runner belongs in its own thread.

Which quickly leads to the why run when you can steal cars for about the same income level as most published adventures.

The first category: Criminal Enterprise, yes you can do that. You may even succeed for a while. But eventually the local cops/organized crime/corps will come down on you and want a piece of the action. No, you won't survive the first shot.

The second category: Legal jobs...congratulations now you're not a runner at all your an accountant.

The third category: Side jobs, so you get 1K nuyen a month for a few days work a week. You can still loose that job if you're no careful.

THe reasons runners exist is because they are sinless (by default), have issues with authority, or some other excuse that precludes them from holding a steady job. Mages for example may be considered too willful and uncontrollable. The streetsam may have been a corpsec guy that got beefed up to VIP protection but was then accused of knocking over a VIP. THe hacker may be a sinless guy sticking it to the corps, the rigger might have been a smuggler with no real sin or fixed address.

The world of Shadowrun is a dystopia. In this thread, I see many notions of how the world works that look like they were formed by listening to the mainstream media in highly-developed nations. Not only are some of these points of view just flat out wrong, even in today's world, they don't necessarily have to apply to a dark future.

Shadowrunners don't have SINs by default. Does a SINless person operating a profitable business sound legal?

Let's say that you either got the SINner quality, or you find all sorts of fluff about legitimate SINless entrepreneurs in Shadowrun. I haven't read one person discuss what the owner would need to pay out to other people in order to operate. Corporations today try to erect high barriers to entry in their industries. Now imagine a world where they are running the show. Think astronomical fees and taxes for you, while the big players pay nothing. Or, you could enter into a contract with someone already established, share your profit with them, and get charged high franchise fees. Don't forget the protection money to the mob. Don't forget unreasonable bookkeeping and insurance requirements designed to keep your business down.

Then think of what would happen if you were to earn 900,000 nuyen a month with some business. Aztechnolgy has a stake in the magical equipment industry. What do megacorps do when some money that they want is going to somebody else? That's right, they pay people like us to make sure that it stops. It would be trivial to hire a team for a few thousand nuyen to blow your operation to bits.

And even if you think that you've got all of your bases covered with elite contacts all over the globe who will protect you, what kind of economic opportunities exist for the non-elite in this world? I've known very many self-employed people, and some of them fail. Most I've known are pretty firmly middle class. Some fall into the "high lifestyle" category. Very few get rich, and I envision a huge divide between the rich and poor in Shadowrun, with some being the lucky few in a small middle class.

Rules that allow anyone to trivially earn money that is orders of magnitude higher than others are broken and wrong. If it's cheap and easy to make something, the price goes down. Those high prices you can fetch for easy things are are not realistic in any economy. These things are market driven, and not based on a price in an RPG sourcebook.

Here let me fix this for you, you seem to be forgetting to put something in there, so I'll do it for you.



Isn't it great how much better three little letters added in can make by showing the statement as YOUR OPINION rather than making a claim that YOUR OPINION is hard fact instead?

Your assistance is neither asked for nor desired... Thank You.
I stand by My statement. It is Unreasonable given the world as written. There, is that understandable enough?

Context, Tymaeus. He was asking if the 10K was reasonable, not the premise itself.


SINner, Global fame, 40hour workweek, 50,000¥/month paycheck. Congratulations, you're Kat (or Maria Mercurial, etc).

It's not that it wasn't understandable. The problem is that you keep trying to push your view of the setting as hard fact about the setting.

YES, as long as you take the Qualities, I have no problem with that. It is when you try to do so outside of the Qualities that I have issues. I said that before.

No, the problem is that people are trying to game the system to circumvent the rules. You want to make money outside of Shadowrunning, take the qualities that allow that. I have absolutely no issue with that. What I do have an issue with is someone claiming that they can make 900,000 Nuyen/Month. THAT is not SHADOWRUNNING. Many people here agree with that statement.

And I quote the OP:



It's not about shadowrunning. It's about shadowrunners earning an income from "an alternative revenue stream" as Leverage puts it.

If your view works for your group, fine, but don't go trying to say that other views are wrong by pushing yours as the 'true fact of the setting'.

As to this claim that it is 'gaming the system', again, that is YOUR OPINION. You really seem to have serious issue being able to admit that your opinion isn't complete fact for everyone, it would seem.

Drug math, with -1 per successive roll in an extended test.

Extended test (16, 1 hour) to make 50 doses with a chemistry facility.
First example is that we're cooking up Psyche (200 per dose). With skill 14, buying hits, with the -1 per successive "roll" rule, we finish a batch in 7 hours, and hand that off to our fence at 30%. We get 3000 nuyen for 7 hours work, and it cost 1000 in materials, for a profit of 2000 per day, or 60k each month (you can cook up more each day, but then there's no time to enjoy your wealth left). With 19 dice, we can finish the same batch in 4 hours, so we'll make two batches each day and end up with 120k nuyen each month.

The fun part comes when you are hired by a terrorist group to make Ringu (arsenal p. 84, 2500 per dose). You then make a profit of 25000 per batch, or a cool 1.5 million per month at two batches per day. And all it cost was your soul. Two weeks after you deliver 3000 doses of "the deadliest nerve gas known to metahumankind" to terrorists, news begin to arrive of a major attack against the UCAS government, and you are forced to take to the shadows in order to hide from all the attention suddenly focused at skilled chemists. All you managed to take with you was your extensive knowledge, the expensive cyberware you managed to get installed, your amazing commlink with top-notch hacking programs, and the various contacts you've made...

tl;dr: Chemists can actually make more money than enchanters.

He always have had.