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Lindt
Wow, thats wicked badass.
On one hand, he only has a willpower of 3, so it wouldn't take much force me to make a longshot test anyway. On the other hand, it means I'm intimidated by a annoyed looking girlscout.

Bah, Ill do it. It'll be fun.

Or I wont because the page is protected?
adamu
Okay, sorry to be slow, just wanted to confirm things before I start adjusting my back story -

The scene Grendel just wrote is NOT a call to arms preview of our NEW gang forming,

It is his narrative of the aftermath of the Gurkhas biting the dust and his forming the Hammerpack, which is the OPCG?

So players starting in OPCG are Hammerpack(ers?) under Legion, and Hammerpack was center of this alliance that (barely) wins a big battle.

And now we will organically form NPCG from the ashes? Or else just recruit more folks into OPCG?

Am I anywhere near accurate here?
HeySparky
I think that's exactly right, adamu.

Lindt - I don't see that you're a member of the space. Vegas and I were talking and decided that we should restrict editing the page to members, so all you need to do is join.
WinterRat1
QUOTE
@Vegas: We're going to have to fight these guys? Can't we just tac nuke em?


Hey, I have to challenge you guys, right? And there's always gotta be at least one (key phrase: at least) really scary 'Evil Empire' type opponent floating around out there to keep your lives interesting. Can't have you all getting bored with the game and accusing me of not providing you with interesting scenarios. wink.gif

QUOTE
The scene Grendel just wrote is NOT a call to arms preview of our NEW gang forming


Correct.

QUOTE
It is his narrative of the aftermath of the Gurkhas biting the dust and his forming the Hammerpack, which is the OPCG?


Correct.

QUOTE

So players starting in OPCG are Hammerpack(ers?) under Legion


Correct.

QUOTE
Hammerpack was center of this alliance that (barely) wins a big battle.


Who said anything about winning the big battle? As we start the game the battle just ended. You don't even know who's still alive, let alone who won. After all, part of the fun will be determining exactly what just happened, before you even get to the 'where do we go from here part'. Who knows, you could find out your side just got annihilated and the victorious enemy is now looking to finish you off. biggrin.gif

QUOTE

And now we will organically form NPCG from the ashes? Or else just recruit more folks into OPCG?


The intention is that you organically form NPCG from the ashes.

Grendel has not expressed any disagreement on this point so I assume he and I are still on the same page.

There will almost certainly be no NPCs from the Hammerpack gang in NPCG. Shade is coming from Splintered Crash, and if Konsaki makes a dedicated NPC, I will encourage that he/she not be from Hammerpack. So really the only members of Hammerpack left will be the PCs from OPCG.

As of now, on the wiki I count a grand total of 6 PCs from OPCG. There are currently going to be at least 14 members (13 PCs + Shade) in NPCG. Slipshade makes 15. We'll probably pick up a couple during the 'official' recruitment phase (although this has basically turned into a Recruitment smile.gif), so say our final tally is about 20 or so. When all's said and done, maybe half the members of NPCG will be from Hammerpack.

With that kind of turnover, and considering that so many members would be from different gangs, it seems reasonable the leader would probably rebuild the entire culture of the gang from scratch to form a more cohesive and unified group, which is my intention and what I want Grendel to be doing.

HOW he does it, of course, will be entirely up to him. But yes, the intention is for you all to organically form NPCG from the ashes.
Konsaki
As for my NPC, I wont be making it any time soon. I'm going to wait until sometime into the game to make it. This way I have more time to spend on the players at the start.
WinterRat1
Wiki Mistresses - I updated the 'Rivals' section so I didn't look like an idiot by having 'Minor Player' on there twice at 5 & 7. I changed 7 to 'Major Player' and 8 to 'Top tier Player'.

All - There has been a change in focus wherein I'm trying to get the gangs all done first before writing up the 'Our Story Thus Far', which makes a heck of a lot more sense and is easier for me. Just an update so you know I'm not slacking over here.

Projected timetable - When all the gang info (PC & NPC) is done, our story thus far is up, the official Guidelines thread is written, all current characters in the pipeline have been approved by Konsaki, and all random stuff like the contraband tables are complete, we'll open up the Official Recruitment thread.

I do not plan on leaving up the Recruitment thread for long because I know you all want to get started and by now most people who are seriously interested in the game are already in. Plus we've got about 13-15 players already, so I think we're doing pretty well on the Recruitment end.

Then at last it'll be showtime. I realize we're taking a while to get going but I'd rather have us take the time now to build a strong foundation that will last us going forward rather than rushing into things to get started and having the game collapse because we didn't put in the work to set it up properly.

I know I've said that before but I wanted to give you all a sense for where we're currently at and where we're going. Thanks to everyone who's been contributing in so many ways big and small to the game, we would never be able to pull this off without all the help of everyone involved!

WinterRat1
Since we'll be organically selecting the gang's turf now, I don't mind letting you all get up to speed on the other gangs in your area. Here's some drafts for people to look at, credit to Rob for his work on the Steel Demons and Outlanders.

Note: All these gangs are drafts so far, even the ones already on the wiki. Once I have them all completed, I will be looking at their comparative rankings, number of members, political relationships, etc. and tweaking them to fit appropriately relative to the rest of the gangs. So don't worry about being vastly outnumbered by every other gang or anything like that. For now they should provide an adequate base understanding of the other gangs, and that is all they are currently intended to do.

Steel Demons
[ Spoiler ]
WinterRat1
Outlanders
[ Spoiler ]

WinterRat1
Heartbreakers (Yes I was inspired for this one by The Ladies of Frank Miller's Sin City)
[ Spoiler ]

Meriss
QUOTE (Konsaki)
@Meriss

For every 100 not spent during chargen, you get a +1 attached to your starting cash, up to 1/2 the total number.
For squatter its 2d6 or 12 max hits. With 375 left over, you would roll 2d6 to get your number then add 3 to it. So it would look like #1=5 #2=3 for a total of 8, then you add 3 to make it 11 total.

OK got it. Can I reroll my starting cash?
Konsaki
QUOTE (Meriss)
QUOTE (Konsaki @ May 10 2007, 11:37 PM)
@Meriss

For every 100 not spent during chargen, you get a +1 attached to your starting cash, up to 1/2 the total number.
For squatter its 2d6 or 12 max hits. With 375 left over, you would roll 2d6 to get your number then add 3 to it. So it would look like #1=5 #2=3 for a total of 8, then you add 3 to make it 11 total.

OK got it. Can I reroll my starting cash?

'fraid not, Meriss. Your current roll stands since there is nothing wrong with it. You add 3 for your leftover cash for an additional 60.

Your starting total is 160 nuyen.
HeySparky
Would anyone (GMs) object to half-strength, half-cost armor versions?

I can put up a section in 'contraband' for it.
rob
I'd second that one. It'll also be a big one if we put in some armor degradation - though it's normally excluded from SR games for the bookkeeping, a lot of this game seems like it would be living-or-dying on the basis of things that stereotypical shadowrunners would take for granted.

Realism-wise, answer me truly - how many of YALL would like to trust your life to a piece of armor that already has bulletholes in it?
Konsaki
Used armor is better than no armor at all, IMO. I would take it if there was nothing else around.
HeySparky
What? Get rid of your lucky jacket? Are you nuts?
Lindt
Im all for lucky jackets.
WinterRat1
I do not generally object to half-strength, half-cost armor, a.k.a. Used armor. However, I would point out that a half-strength half-cost Armor Jacket is better than a New Armor Clothing, and cheaper by 50 nuyen too. How do you feel about that Konsaki?

Are there rules for Armor Degredation in SR 4? I could not find them.
HeySparky
I wasn't talking specifically about 'used' armor, but lighter armor that was the same style as heavier armor... IE BOD 3 can only wear an Armor Vest or Lined Coat... come on. I want an Armored Jacket. I don't care if it's not as stout, I want the jacket-ness.
Konsaki
Hmm... straight out of chargen, I wouldn't allow half cost armor. During gameplay though, armor you buy off the streets may or may not be new quality or top of the line quality armor. (Read: It might not be book stats) vegm.gif
Course, that also means that you can specificly look for second hand stuff to save a buck if you dont care about trying to get full value, too.

Armor degridation... That would be sorta dependant on the GM and the situation I guess. My thoughts are, if an attack blows through your armor, discounting called shots, and does physical damage, you glitch on a reaction test or soak test, you might lose some of your armor's protection.
Reallisticly, with every attack your armor should be getting weaker, whether it's penetrated or not, but I'm not that evil or else you guys would be buying armor after every fistfight or knife fight.
Konsaki
QUOTE (ES_Sparky)
I wasn't talking specifically about 'used' armor, but lighter armor that was the same style as heavier armor... IE BOD 3 can only wear an Armor Vest or Lined Coat... come on. I want an Armored Jacket. I don't care if it's not as stout, I want the jacket-ness.

If that's the problem, buy the Armored Vest and put a Jacket on over it. As long as the Jacket doesnt have any armor to it, there should be no encumberence, though I dont like the armor stacking rules as is anyways.
By description, the Armored Vest is worn under any shirts/Jackets you are wearing and is ment to be hidden armor.
Vegas
Damn.. I should have had Nevada come from the Heartbreakers ;P

Seriously though, Nice work guys. I put them up on the Wiki just to make any editing to them easier since all the rivals are drafts up for discussion. Easier to make edits in ONE place than trying to go back through this thread that is growing by leaps and bounds each day. biggrin.gif
Konsaki
Note that while these servers are going down sometime Saturday, I will be looking over the 'Ready' characters on the Wiki. I will save up any issues or questions I have until the DS servers come back online though.
If there are no problems with your character, I will just approve it and move it up to the approved section during downtime and post something when the servers come back up.
HeySparky
I guess the armor thing doesn't matter so long as there aren't hit locations... not sure why I care. smile.gif
Meriss
@Konsaki: Got it, editing page to reflect. I'm going to spend the 75 I have left from chargen and increasing starting cash on ink.
Abbandon
I dont like the thought of armor degredation at all. That just begs for the next step which is where exactly you got shot and stuff, like in a location that has armor vs a location that doesnt.

Who else is in the Side Street Rollers??? I liked your gang and have become a part of your history hehe.

Lindt
Just Child, and I could care less. If your big and strong, you'll have someone following around in your shadow.

Im thinking of suggesting that 'Iron Tower' folded into one of the 'rival' gangs.
gadsdenflag
Hi, I'm new to the forum. I've been lurking for a little while, and I'd like to try this pbp thing out in your game. I used to gm and play shadowrun in the 90's. I haven't roleplayed in some time.

I'd like to play a 'face' type of character. I'm not sure if this fits in with the ganger motif, but it seems to me somebody has to do it for all groups, even gangs.

[ Spoiler ]


Whatchya think?
WinterRat1
Gadsdenflag - Thanks for the interest! Your concept seems plausible, although I have a few questions.

1. What about extended family, didn't they take him in? What happened to all his resources, life insurance proceeds from parents, the fact that he inherited all the family's stuff, etc. How did he go from all that to living on the streets in less than two years? I'm not saying it's not possible, just want to know how you envisioned it happening.

2. Was Lainnir skimming off the top from the gang, or were you saying he was taking a legitimate cut as the middleman while brokering deals with various parties? I'm fine with the latter, but I'd be somewhat leery of the former, as it's almost certain to lead to the type of inter-PC conflict which ends up with someone dead, which I'm trying to avoid if possible.

3. How did he meet all these people on the streets to develop the contacts that he's using so extensively when he grew up in a corp world far from the streets?

Beyond those brief questions to get a better feel for the concept, it's certainly possible to have a 'face/street dealer' type of PC. As long as you're clear this is not a PC who is a true shadowrunner in any sense of the word, that ultimately the PC is a ganger, I don't mind you playing a face type character. As you said, there's always at least one (if not more than one) person who's the talker, the one with connections, the one who sets up deals, the diplomat, etc.

Go ahead and answer the questions here so I know we're on the same page, and then I'll either approve the concept or ask you to go back to the drawing board.
gadsdenflag
1. His extended family didn't take him in, because his parents turned their backs on their elven heritage. (maybe they left tir tangire?) Instead they ran into the arms of a corp. Lainnir's extended family disowned his parents when they left. Lainnir was born after they left, and his parents never told his extended family about his existence, because there was no communication with them. There were no bodies to confirm death, so no insurance money. The belongings were sold off to cover foreclosure costs and 'other debts'.

2. I meant he was taking a legitimate cut for his services as a middleman. I'm completely in sync with him NOT being a runner. He's strictly small time, strictly small circles. Is my line about knowing what happens in the barrens too large in scope? I can narrow that to whatever is appropriate. Perhaps knowing what's going on in hammerpack territory and bordering gang territories only?

3. I can better answer this in a longer background story. The short answer: This is what he was good at when growing up. He is a social animal. Once he got his feet under him in the gang, he made it his business to go out and meet people, do some favors and build some street cred. Basically, when he had some time, he went looking to make some contacts. More to follow if this makes sense.
WinterRat1
Flag (sorry your whole name is just too long smile.gif) -

1. Makes sense, I see no problems there.

2. OK cool, when you said 'the barrens', I interpreted that as the whole Redmond Barrens, which is way too large in scope for this game. A legit cut as middleman is fine, and it seems we're on the same page with him being small time and small circles.

I'm ok with him knowing what's up in the Kingsgate area, but no larger than that. That would mean he's got good connections across the area of the gangs you'll be dealing with on a regular basis, which is reasonable.

3. Understood. Makes sense and is reasonable.

Go ahead and complete a character sheet and 30 questions per the instructions in the opening posts and submit to the wiki staff to post for Konsaki's review.
Konsaki
@Meriss

Your switchblade = knife so it should cost 50 instead of 20.
That would put you at 4730 spent and adjust your starting cash... again.

I already dropped the price on the brass knuckles, which will be 50, 3R avail and (S/2)P damage. If you just drop the knife, you will be good to go.
Konsaki
@Carjack

You need to look over your gear once again. Your total gear comes out to 7900, add your 500 from lifestyle and you still have 1400 left to spend.

Then you need to roll starting cash and place that in the char sheet.
Meriss
QUOTE (Konsaki @ May 12 2007, 04:40 AM)
@Meriss

Your switchblade = knife so it should cost 50 instead of 20.
That would put you at 4730 spent and adjust your starting cash... again.

I already dropped the price on the brass knuckles, which will be 50, 3R avail and (S/2)P damage. If you just drop the knife, you will be good to go.

Got it, editing again. smile.gif You meant get rid of it right?
carjack_malone
Is there a prefered method (or site) for rolls?
Meriss
I use Invisable Castle, but that's just out of habit from my other game.
link
pragma
I wrote a little perl script for die rolling which spits out results in a Dumpshock friendly format. If there is sufficient interest, I can look into getting it put online.
Meriss
That would be neat pragma! No fishing around for dice or die rollers
Mister Juan
What I do is I sit and watch people as they pass by below. They walk and hustle about their own affairs. To them, the state of the world is of no concern. Only the little bubble in which they all live matters. It is what cocoons them that gives them a purpose to keep on pushing forward... or downward... or toward any other direction they deem fit for their own faith. Down there, it's actually not as downward as most think. Down there, you're actually, most of the time, on top. It is when shadows start crawling around your skin, picking at your flesh and pushing behind your eye balls that you know you've hit the real gutter. The gutter; filled with filth, dirty needles broken hopes and crushed dreams. The gutter; filled with sewer overflow. The gutter; with tears and blood. Down in the gutter is where you really know your bubble has burst. You can't have one below; down there. Having one is a sure way to die. It's a promise. You have to face things that no one should. But you have to. You have to play whatever hand you end up with. Play it or die.

When you get down to it, it's pretty simple. I've realized that a long time ago. You see the shapes of thing, with no veil in front of your eyes. It's the only way to survive. No flair, no flourish. Just the hard cold truth of the streets. You have to be honest with yourself. You have to just take things for what they are and stop looking for a meaning behind every act. God doesn't move in mysterious ways down there... he's forgotten it even exists. They've all forgotten we exist down there. Don't show it on the trid. If you don't show it, then it doesn't exist.

We all say we didn't have a choice. We all say we'll never have one. Choices aren't for people like us. Disce Pati. We simply learn to endure. We bite the bullet and carry on. No questions. We just survive. ]

But we all have a choice.
Surviving isn't enough.
We have to be worthy of survival.

I am not doing it for me. I am not doing it because my survival is crucial to the betterment of the world around me. I hold no illusion about my nature and my purpose. I'm not down here to conquer or to pen my signature down in the pages of the gutter's dark history.

I'm just here for her.
I'm here because she needs me.
Meriss
Mister Juan, very deep, is that Felix?
Mister Juan
Maybe. Maybe not. wink.gif You find your own conclusion.
Meriss
LOL!
HeySparky
And to think... we almost got through chargen without a dandelion eater.

Heya gads, I approved you over at the wiki. Welcome to the boards! biggrin.gif
WinterRat1
Ha! I knew we'd get an elf submission sooner or later. It was just a matter of time. I have to admit though, I was surprised we made it as long as we did without one, especially with all those orks that kept coming in!

Mister Juan - SAVE THAT POST. I will want it in the IC thread later.

All - For that matter, everyone save the IC posts you all have been sporadically putting up. There may be a use for them later at some point, so it's always good to hold onto them, just in case.

Mister Juan
QUOTE (WinterRat1)
Mister Juan - SAVE THAT POST. I will want it in the IC thread later.

Sure thing mate. I so can't wait for this game to start... I had to write something up.
WinterRat1
Argh, delayed post.
rob
To jump on the story writing bandwagon, here's bockscar's story:

[ Spoiler ]


OH, BTW - Konsaki - since I've been writing up so many of the gang descriptions, I shuffled some character knowledge points - dropped "computer crime" and put the rest of them into redmond gangs and redmond scumbags, to prevent out-of-character insight based on my (player) knowledge.
Konsaki
I'll have to relook at your character then when I get home from work in around 7-8 hours.

@All
Sorry if I havent gotten to your character yet. Real life friends (yes, I have some nyahnyah.gif ) kept yanking me out into what they called the 'Outside'.
Mister Juan
In case someone cares:
Since the Splintered Crash is now located in Redmond, Felix will not be part of the Hammerpack post-gang war. It just wouldn't make much sense.

WinterRat1
For those who played in the 410 Crash game - Let me know what happened to your characters after the 410 Crash were destroyed, and if they joined the Splintered Crash.

Also, if anyone is interested, feel free to write up what happened to the other 410 Crash members who survived but whose players are not in this game.
Vegas
@ WinterRat1

What else do you need or what else can we do or make ourselves available to do to help you meet "deadlines" or keep things on schedule to get the threads up and running so we can start flooding the IC thread with posts? biggrin.gif
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