Full Version: Down in the Gutter
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So the vignette is just a short account of each character's role in their gang being destroyed? And all I need to follow is that Asphalt Kings first attacked Brickhouse Boys on the 19th and they finished them off on the 31st, right?
@all you chemists
I'm still working on the active drug skill stuff, which is being delayed by real life work and such.
So far I've decided on just having the Px Chemicals and Industrial Chemicals without a skill group.
You will still have to specialise on a specific drug, like Nitro, if you want to specialise.
Since you guys are on the lowest of the low in gang scale, which is in turn the lowest of the low in crime sindicates, instead of you guys actually creating the drugs from scratch, you will be using the active skills to 'cut' the drugs purchased through a contact or other source. I've yet to fully write up a ruleset for that, but thats my plan.
The result should be quicker 'processing' of the drugs while still being relativly realistic and not overpowering.
I'm still working on the active drug skill stuff, which is being delayed by real life work and such.
So far I've decided on just having the Px Chemicals and Industrial Chemicals without a skill group.
You will still have to specialise on a specific drug, like Nitro, if you want to specialise.
Since you guys are on the lowest of the low in gang scale, which is in turn the lowest of the low in crime sindicates, instead of you guys actually creating the drugs from scratch, you will be using the active skills to 'cut' the drugs purchased through a contact or other source. I've yet to fully write up a ruleset for that, but thats my plan.
The result should be quicker 'processing' of the drugs while still being relativly realistic and not overpowering.
@Konsaki
Want to make a minor change to my CS before play starts. I'll run it by you here before changing the wiki.
Want to make a minor change to my CS before play starts. I'll run it by you here before changing the wiki.
[ Spoiler ]
| QUOTE (adamu) |
| @Konsaki Want to make a minor change to my CS before play starts. I'll run it by you here before changing the wiki. [ Spoiler ] |
Looks fine.
Well i looked up what the hell a vignette is and also submitted one for my character so mission complete!!
Awaiting next assignment hehe.
@WR I guess the days in my vignette were monday and wednesday. Monday when the Slick gets attacked and Wednesday when we defend our turf.
Awaiting next assignment hehe.
@WR I guess the days in my vignette were monday and wednesday. Monday when the Slick gets attacked and Wednesday when we defend our turf.
OPCG (Hammerpack) Discussion Update
Organization
Personally, I prefer a very loose structure. Do what Legion says. Follow his policies. Defend turf as problems come up. Earn if one is so inclined. Debauch if one is so inclined.
I am sure there are other opinions....
Relationship with Locals - Winning Hearts and Minds
I suggest that we might have had - or could consider having - certain ground rules in place, set by leadership, to help us convince the locals we do not suck.
Not taking protection money - that is direct taxation, and leads to greater resentment than anything else. Plus, the more money they have, the more whores and drugs they can buy.
Policing violent and property crime on our turf - makes locals think we are nice, establishes our dominance of area, keeps unaffiliated rabble out.
Procure whores outside turf, sell them inside.
Make drugs outside turf, sell them outside.
Interested in other ideas.
HQ
Any thoughts?
Communications
Good comm can turn a disorganized rabble into a fighting unit relatively quickly.
Very much hoping to hear from rob on this, since he seems interested, and his character will be the go-to guy on this.
Guns
Got a definitive answer from the Uber GM on this. You can go back and check it.
In short, most gangers have them, but reluctant to use them outside of open war, cuz they kill, and killing starts wars.
Not done lightly, especially in the aftermath of Red October, I suppose.
Still wondering about our disposition on them as a gang...
Organization
Personally, I prefer a very loose structure. Do what Legion says. Follow his policies. Defend turf as problems come up. Earn if one is so inclined. Debauch if one is so inclined.
I am sure there are other opinions....
Relationship with Locals - Winning Hearts and Minds
I suggest that we might have had - or could consider having - certain ground rules in place, set by leadership, to help us convince the locals we do not suck.
Not taking protection money - that is direct taxation, and leads to greater resentment than anything else. Plus, the more money they have, the more whores and drugs they can buy.
Policing violent and property crime on our turf - makes locals think we are nice, establishes our dominance of area, keeps unaffiliated rabble out.
Procure whores outside turf, sell them inside.
Make drugs outside turf, sell them outside.
Interested in other ideas.
HQ
Any thoughts?
Communications
Good comm can turn a disorganized rabble into a fighting unit relatively quickly.
Very much hoping to hear from rob on this, since he seems interested, and his character will be the go-to guy on this.
Guns
Got a definitive answer from the Uber GM on this. You can go back and check it.
In short, most gangers have them, but reluctant to use them outside of open war, cuz they kill, and killing starts wars.
Not done lightly, especially in the aftermath of Red October, I suppose.
Still wondering about our disposition on them as a gang...
Ok my thoughts on how the Pack was organized.
Organization
Essentiially Legion was the boss, but, he had 1 or 2 liuetenants who oversaw the day to day operation of the gang. Each LT had a go to guy for his area. Then under each LT was the setup of the gang. Drug Selling, Protection, Hookers, Tagging, etc. Then directly under Legion would be the Enforcers. The job of the Enforcers would be to protect the gang and show the force when needed.
Relationship with Locals
To be honest, I think we would walk all over them. I don't see Legion being all cudly with the people of our neighborhood. They pay protection, give us stuff, let us have our way with there women, they don't die. They don't turn on us becuase they know that no other gang is any better. Better the devil you know. Were not some after school special of a gang, were ruthless and bitter, and mean. This is what the streets have done to us.
Communications
Good comm. flows from organization. Each of us should have a commlink at least.
In short, were viloent, mean, and in charge. Or at least we were, till we got taken down by the other gangs. My guess is this is how (or something like it) set up the new gang.
Organization
Essentiially Legion was the boss, but, he had 1 or 2 liuetenants who oversaw the day to day operation of the gang. Each LT had a go to guy for his area. Then under each LT was the setup of the gang. Drug Selling, Protection, Hookers, Tagging, etc. Then directly under Legion would be the Enforcers. The job of the Enforcers would be to protect the gang and show the force when needed.
Relationship with Locals
To be honest, I think we would walk all over them. I don't see Legion being all cudly with the people of our neighborhood. They pay protection, give us stuff, let us have our way with there women, they don't die. They don't turn on us becuase they know that no other gang is any better. Better the devil you know. Were not some after school special of a gang, were ruthless and bitter, and mean. This is what the streets have done to us.
Communications
Good comm. flows from organization. Each of us should have a commlink at least.
In short, were viloent, mean, and in charge. Or at least we were, till we got taken down by the other gangs. My guess is this is how (or something like it) set up the new gang.
I agree with the concept of winning hearts and minds and the idea that we're violent mean and bitter, I don't see how the two are mutally exclusive.
The local gangs around here all congregate in their own areas, they tag houses and businesses in their own area, they pretty much walk where they want and do what they want in their areas, the locals all seem indifferent or supportive of the gangs since anyone who felt differently got the shit kicked out of them until they left.
I don't think collecting protection money will work for a number of reasons. Remember, we wouldn't be strong arming a bunch of nuns or secretaries here, these are also street people living a barely subsistence level of existence and if we take more than a tiny shred of their resourses we ARE killing them, people get grouchy when you take away the food that's going to keep their kids alive. No matter how weak in comparison, they are desperate, and desperate people are dangerous. Also, trying to collect protection money from individuals is impossible, it'd take dozens and dozens of tax collectors going door-to-door and walking around with significant amounts of disposable nuyen, so each would need protection. The logistic are mind boggling. The biggest issue is the fact that the major syndicates do protection money, the Mafia and Yakuza or Triads, not the local gangers and stepping on their toes would be a slow and painful form of passive suicide.
I think we could collect a small percentage of the drug pushers' profits, acting as a middle man, smash-and-grab stuff from any government or corporate interests in the area, prostitution, muggings, that sort of thing. We're little fish here and little fish don't get to gobble up all the goodies, we take the crumbs.
The local gangs around here all congregate in their own areas, they tag houses and businesses in their own area, they pretty much walk where they want and do what they want in their areas, the locals all seem indifferent or supportive of the gangs since anyone who felt differently got the shit kicked out of them until they left.
I don't think collecting protection money will work for a number of reasons. Remember, we wouldn't be strong arming a bunch of nuns or secretaries here, these are also street people living a barely subsistence level of existence and if we take more than a tiny shred of their resourses we ARE killing them, people get grouchy when you take away the food that's going to keep their kids alive. No matter how weak in comparison, they are desperate, and desperate people are dangerous. Also, trying to collect protection money from individuals is impossible, it'd take dozens and dozens of tax collectors going door-to-door and walking around with significant amounts of disposable nuyen, so each would need protection. The logistic are mind boggling. The biggest issue is the fact that the major syndicates do protection money, the Mafia and Yakuza or Triads, not the local gangers and stepping on their toes would be a slow and painful form of passive suicide.
I think we could collect a small percentage of the drug pushers' profits, acting as a middle man, smash-and-grab stuff from any government or corporate interests in the area, prostitution, muggings, that sort of thing. We're little fish here and little fish don't get to gobble up all the goodies, we take the crumbs.
There seems to be local business that we could roll for protection money.The QuickEmart, the resaurants etc. The mafia and the yak's don't really deal with the DMZ so we would not be going up against them. I understand not demanding protection from the people just becasue they wont have anything. This is sort of like old England though. A soldier could come to your house, eat your food, rape your woman, and leave. It was all perfectly legal since it was the law that you had to provide for them. With us it isn't the law, just Survival of the Fitest.
Ok I'm stepping up and chiming in here...
Organization
Legion's at the top of the food chain with perhaps 1-3 higher-up underlings/lieutenants/enforcers and the rest fall into line from there, newbies on the bottom only because.. well we're newbies and relative unknowns and loyalty hasn't been proven/tested yet.
Keep in mind that in a perfect world we'd have a larger contingent for the NPCG, however we're gonna have what... 16-18 gangers at startup (including NPC's and PC's?) We try to get too fancy and spread that too thin and we're just asking for a gang like Raider Nation to come in and wipe the pavement with us one "subgroup" at a time.
Relationship with the Locals
I've got to go with Adamu and Cedric on this one. I don't think running a proverbial protection racket is really feasible for a gang that doesn't have their shit together 100% at the get go and keeping in mind we're in the Barrens. Hard to take something from those who have next to nothing. Is the time and effort worth the few nu or occasional bit of gear they MIGHT be able to get? Couple that with the amount of people it would hamstring into doing that ALL the time and the number of gangers it takes away from more potentially profitable things (drugs, prostitution, BTL, robbery, whatever)...
I don't think that we have to be all touchy-feely cuddly with the neighborhood. We establish our dominance in whatever ways become neccessary, through violence or perceived protection...and just because we're protecting the various denizens of our turf doesn't mean they have to pay us in cash... perhaps they pay us in information, or they keep their eyes out and ears open when they live along the borders of our turf and give us the lowdown on what they see/hear or the heads up when someone's coming in that shouldn't be... information can be just as profitable (if not more so) than cash.
We also have the option of rolling OUTSIDE our turf (i.e. Touristville) for a more "profitable" sector to develop business. If our turf ends up being somewhere down in SW Kingsgate, that makes an easy jaunt down there to stir up trouble and possibly have a better chance of selling our wares/turning a profit/have bigger fish roll in a robbery.
anyway, that's just my mental dump on the subject for right now .. possibly more to come later.
Organization
Legion's at the top of the food chain with perhaps 1-3 higher-up underlings/lieutenants/enforcers and the rest fall into line from there, newbies on the bottom only because.. well we're newbies and relative unknowns and loyalty hasn't been proven/tested yet.
Keep in mind that in a perfect world we'd have a larger contingent for the NPCG, however we're gonna have what... 16-18 gangers at startup (including NPC's and PC's?) We try to get too fancy and spread that too thin and we're just asking for a gang like Raider Nation to come in and wipe the pavement with us one "subgroup" at a time.
Relationship with the Locals
I've got to go with Adamu and Cedric on this one. I don't think running a proverbial protection racket is really feasible for a gang that doesn't have their shit together 100% at the get go and keeping in mind we're in the Barrens. Hard to take something from those who have next to nothing. Is the time and effort worth the few nu or occasional bit of gear they MIGHT be able to get? Couple that with the amount of people it would hamstring into doing that ALL the time and the number of gangers it takes away from more potentially profitable things (drugs, prostitution, BTL, robbery, whatever)...
I don't think that we have to be all touchy-feely cuddly with the neighborhood. We establish our dominance in whatever ways become neccessary, through violence or perceived protection...and just because we're protecting the various denizens of our turf doesn't mean they have to pay us in cash... perhaps they pay us in information, or they keep their eyes out and ears open when they live along the borders of our turf and give us the lowdown on what they see/hear or the heads up when someone's coming in that shouldn't be... information can be just as profitable (if not more so) than cash.
We also have the option of rolling OUTSIDE our turf (i.e. Touristville) for a more "profitable" sector to develop business. If our turf ends up being somewhere down in SW Kingsgate, that makes an easy jaunt down there to stir up trouble and possibly have a better chance of selling our wares/turning a profit/have bigger fish roll in a robbery.
anyway, that's just my mental dump on the subject for right now .. possibly more to come later.
Ok.. one more thing.. .
@WR1 & Konsaki....
Are the numbers on the Rival Gang's sections of the wiki pre-gang war, or post-gang war? Or are those numbers we're even gonna know?
I mean frankly I don't like the idea of a gang of ghouls in the first place... but 16-18 NPCG'ers going up against 40+ ghouls looks even LESS appetizing
@WR1 & Konsaki....
Are the numbers on the Rival Gang's sections of the wiki pre-gang war, or post-gang war? Or are those numbers we're even gonna know?
I mean frankly I don't like the idea of a gang of ghouls in the first place... but 16-18 NPCG'ers going up against 40+ ghouls looks even LESS appetizing
| QUOTE (Vegas) |
| Ok.. one more thing.. . @WR1 & Konsaki.... Are the numbers on the Rival Gang's sections of the wiki pre-gang war, or post-gang war? Or are those numbers we're even gonna know? I mean frankly I don't like the idea of a gang of ghouls in the first place... but 16-18 NPCG'ers going up against 40+ ghouls looks even LESS appetizing |
I'll tell you straight up, I dont know. This is WR1's decision on their numbers.
I'd guess that those arnt the 'true' numbers but estimations based off the knowledge 'everyone' has.
Personally, I dont want you PC's to know the numbers the other gangs have unless you make a good roll on your Gang Knowledge rolls. (SUBTLE HINT!!1!) Even then, it wont be a perfect number since there are a few people in the gang who rarely see the light of day, like drug cutters and hackers.
As for the gang of Ghouls, if you dont like them, try to wipe them out or do something else about it. Remember that you guys can 'try' to mold Kingsgate into something you want, but the other gangs are trying to do the same damn thing.
Ok, a note on your gang strength at game start. As far as I know, you will have any ammount of PC's that have been approved (count around 9-10 right now) plus 1 NPC (Shade).
I know there are alot of characters that are still in the works and havent ready'd up on the wiki. My hands are tied about approving them, cant do much until they say they're ready.
Who knows, maybe the other gangs are reeling on their heels just as much as this new gang is. Wont know untill game start, will we?
I know there are alot of characters that are still in the works and havent ready'd up on the wiki. My hands are tied about approving them, cant do much until they say they're ready.
Who knows, maybe the other gangs are reeling on their heels just as much as this new gang is. Wont know untill game start, will we?
Alright then kids, get your shit together and get those characters done and ready for approval!
I don't want to die the first few days of gameplay
I don't want to die the first few days of gameplay
Okay my two cents on the gang. Yes Ink is a newbie, but this is what the LoCoS did (sorta, they're not 100% in my head yet, and they're all dead so we see how well their tactics worked 
)
Organization:
Luis, Carlos and Santorio were the hefes (big bosses) they mostly argued over what to do until a plan was hashed out. (one of their weaknesses compared to the Pack) They then told their hombres (lieutenants) what to do. The rest of the chain just followed. The cousins would also join in if any major threats or trouble developed.
Locals:
Most people in their turf held the LoCoS as a nessecary evil. Yeah they were a bunch of no good vatos, but they kept the worse vatos out. The devil you know and all that.
Buisness:
Mostly petty crimes, minor tourist muggings, and a impressive trade in Nova. (the cousins were all Colombian, and had minor "family" connections. Not much but enough to get them some) They also had several dealers working Tourisville. If Ink can get ahold of some of these guys we may have a pipeline to some nice biz.
Buisness oppertunities for NPCG:
Mugging, hooking, protection (once we get our shit together), the Bazaar might offer us an oppurtunity to deal drugs (Bockscar seems a good choice for this), Ink might be able to pull a stall in the Bazaar with some help and a decent ID. Ummm thats about it aside from the bigger stuff which we don't have the numbers for yet.
@Vegas: I agree, we want to stay as far away from the 162s as possible
)Organization:
Luis, Carlos and Santorio were the hefes (big bosses) they mostly argued over what to do until a plan was hashed out. (one of their weaknesses compared to the Pack) They then told their hombres (lieutenants) what to do. The rest of the chain just followed. The cousins would also join in if any major threats or trouble developed.
Locals:
Most people in their turf held the LoCoS as a nessecary evil. Yeah they were a bunch of no good vatos, but they kept the worse vatos out. The devil you know and all that.
Buisness:
Mostly petty crimes, minor tourist muggings, and a impressive trade in Nova. (the cousins were all Colombian, and had minor "family" connections. Not much but enough to get them some) They also had several dealers working Tourisville. If Ink can get ahold of some of these guys we may have a pipeline to some nice biz.
Buisness oppertunities for NPCG:
Mugging, hooking, protection (once we get our shit together), the Bazaar might offer us an oppurtunity to deal drugs (Bockscar seems a good choice for this), Ink might be able to pull a stall in the Bazaar with some help and a decent ID. Ummm thats about it aside from the bigger stuff which we don't have the numbers for yet.
@Vegas: I agree, we want to stay as far away from the 162s as possible
@Cedric - welcome back!
@All:
Numbers on the rival gangs (at least the ones I wrote up, i.e. everything but the Raiders, Lotus and Heartbreakers) are pre-gang-war, since I as a player did not want tho have any post-gang-war information advantage. I suspect the Raiders, Lotus, and Heartbreakers are pre- as well, since WR has insinuated time and again that one of the major tasks of the immediately-following-gang-war-period will be BDA (battle damage assessment).
- oh, and as for the ghouls, read up on them a bit... I personally wrote the 162s so that they aren't necessarily caricature-style big bad bogeymen. Nor am I in a hurry to tangle with them, since any scratch they induce could cause the PC to become a ghoul. And if you're still thinking about it, look at the BBB for the stats of an AVERAGE ghoul.
I will not weigh in heavily on the OPCG TTP/SOP (tactics, techniques, and procedures; standard operating procedure) debate, since my character is NPCG. Here's 2c, though (written not-exactly IC but through Box's point of view):
1 stuff (peeps): we'll see.
2 stuff (intel): no BDA yet - we don't need to assume that the other people will be square and able to easily mop us up. All of them will have gotten their a***s kicked, too. Nobody's gonna come out of this whistling and singing.
... Oh, and BTW, since Legion's a big-a** target, have we considered FAKING his death?
3 stuff (ops): 'protection' rackets are usually hit businesses, not peeps. One way to both establish dominance over the turf and interface with the population is to charge protection rackets for individuals and businesses, AND THEN ACTUALLY PROTECT THEM... We've got a drug-and-chip making section and potential for a drug-and-chip retail section; we've got potential for a carjacking section, a small pimpin' section, and mad stick-up muscle. Figger out priorities of work later.
4 stuff (gear): we'll see.
5 stuff (hearts and minds): see 3 stuff. Gotta figure out where our turf is, where their allegiances lie, and their take on the gang war or previous masters. Yall hammerpack people have been living here for a while, how DID yall interact with the peeps?
6 stuff (comms): Not that big a deal, not as coordinated. We'll have to see what organic comms we have, and aside from that some procedure to ensure access and communication ability. Our issue will be comms assurance rather than comms quality or comms SOP, at least at the start.
... As far as 6/3 stuff (comms ops) - We might make some money off selling comms access, including to other gangs... which will give Tootles and I some nice comms intercept/decrypt fun...
@All:
Numbers on the rival gangs (at least the ones I wrote up, i.e. everything but the Raiders, Lotus and Heartbreakers) are pre-gang-war, since I as a player did not want tho have any post-gang-war information advantage. I suspect the Raiders, Lotus, and Heartbreakers are pre- as well, since WR has insinuated time and again that one of the major tasks of the immediately-following-gang-war-period will be BDA (battle damage assessment).
- oh, and as for the ghouls, read up on them a bit... I personally wrote the 162s so that they aren't necessarily caricature-style big bad bogeymen. Nor am I in a hurry to tangle with them, since any scratch they induce could cause the PC to become a ghoul. And if you're still thinking about it, look at the BBB for the stats of an AVERAGE ghoul.
I will not weigh in heavily on the OPCG TTP/SOP (tactics, techniques, and procedures; standard operating procedure) debate, since my character is NPCG. Here's 2c, though (written not-exactly IC but through Box's point of view):
1 stuff (peeps): we'll see.
2 stuff (intel): no BDA yet - we don't need to assume that the other people will be square and able to easily mop us up. All of them will have gotten their a***s kicked, too. Nobody's gonna come out of this whistling and singing.
... Oh, and BTW, since Legion's a big-a** target, have we considered FAKING his death?
3 stuff (ops): 'protection' rackets are usually hit businesses, not peeps. One way to both establish dominance over the turf and interface with the population is to charge protection rackets for individuals and businesses, AND THEN ACTUALLY PROTECT THEM... We've got a drug-and-chip making section and potential for a drug-and-chip retail section; we've got potential for a carjacking section, a small pimpin' section, and mad stick-up muscle. Figger out priorities of work later.
4 stuff (gear): we'll see.
5 stuff (hearts and minds): see 3 stuff. Gotta figure out where our turf is, where their allegiances lie, and their take on the gang war or previous masters. Yall hammerpack people have been living here for a while, how DID yall interact with the peeps?
6 stuff (comms): Not that big a deal, not as coordinated. We'll have to see what organic comms we have, and aside from that some procedure to ensure access and communication ability. Our issue will be comms assurance rather than comms quality or comms SOP, at least at the start.
... As far as 6/3 stuff (comms ops) - We might make some money off selling comms access, including to other gangs... which will give Tootles and I some nice comms intercept/decrypt fun...
Okay, my character is ready except for a final revision on his resources, can our Wiki-saurus Rex edit the Chargen page and make my guy ready for review with these changes? I'm done other than that and ready for approval.
Edit:: FIXED
[ Spoiler ]
Edit:: FIXED
@ Cedric
Making the changes now. Should be done in 10.
Making the changes now. Should be done in 10.
Other issues:
Legion's death: I, for one, think keeping Legion as a viable target is a good thing. It gives the other gangs both a focus and a fear so they won't be watching the rest of our group as heavily. Think Saddam Hussein, he just kept moving around, high value target which wasted a lot of intel resources because no one could ever pin down where he was going to be. If Legion is tough enough to survive the assasination attempts and provided we don't go nuts on the revenge issues, most of our crew will be free to operate as we like with the other gangs pretty well ignoring us. Their energies will focus on Legion because without him we're not a problem or we're a potential recruit.
Individual actions: I'd like to make clear that while we're talking about plans etc. most of the gangers I know are much more about individual intiative. The members who come up with good scams, bring in loot, get big reps cause of their tagging, etc. do so on their own initiative. It increases their value and standing immediately which encourages individual initiative. The one's whose scams fail wind up in jail or the hospital and are no longer of value to the gang, Darwinian but effective.
What is the idea on initiative? I'd think we're all going to form small sub-groups which shift and flow based upon RPing and as needed for scams. The ones that do well move up in the gang and the ones that don't. . . .don't.
Legion's death: I, for one, think keeping Legion as a viable target is a good thing. It gives the other gangs both a focus and a fear so they won't be watching the rest of our group as heavily. Think Saddam Hussein, he just kept moving around, high value target which wasted a lot of intel resources because no one could ever pin down where he was going to be. If Legion is tough enough to survive the assasination attempts and provided we don't go nuts on the revenge issues, most of our crew will be free to operate as we like with the other gangs pretty well ignoring us. Their energies will focus on Legion because without him we're not a problem or we're a potential recruit.
Individual actions: I'd like to make clear that while we're talking about plans etc. most of the gangers I know are much more about individual intiative. The members who come up with good scams, bring in loot, get big reps cause of their tagging, etc. do so on their own initiative. It increases their value and standing immediately which encourages individual initiative. The one's whose scams fail wind up in jail or the hospital and are no longer of value to the gang, Darwinian but effective.
What is the idea on initiative? I'd think we're all going to form small sub-groups which shift and flow based upon RPing and as needed for scams. The ones that do well move up in the gang and the ones that don't. . . .don't.
@ Konsaki
Jaya's done and ready for final review. Changes have been made to gear only.
Jaya's done and ready for final review. Changes have been made to gear only.
@Cedric - that's what I was thinking. Thanks for articulating it directly. We have a variety of talent among the PCs given, including some monopoly scams (ink); plus all of us are attention-hogging RPers who want their characters to be big (or, same content, different phrasing - ambitious gangers with unique skills who wanna be big). The various scams will be pushed by their proponents within the gang and RP'd by their proponents, and will end up prioritizing themselves.
As for saddam, the small dude with the viable superpower interested in him (ahem, raider nation), look where it got him.
As for saddam, the small dude with the viable superpower interested in him (ahem, raider nation), look where it got him.
Tootles doesn't have a scam. He'll be torn between what fun adventures everyone is proposing to do....
ok are we talking the way were going to be or the way the Hammerpack was? Because what I was saying was the way I surmised Hammerpack was.
I can pretty much garantee you though, that the new gang will be getting money however, and from whomever we can, including protection, extortion, robbery, etc. If someone has something, and we want it, we take it cause we can. If you are running a store on our block, and you don't want to end up beaten bloody and bruised with no inventory, you pay us.
I can pretty much garantee you though, that the new gang will be getting money however, and from whomever we can, including protection, extortion, robbery, etc. If someone has something, and we want it, we take it cause we can. If you are running a store on our block, and you don't want to end up beaten bloody and bruised with no inventory, you pay us.
| QUOTE (Konsaki) |
| @all you chemists I'm still working on the active drug skill stuff, which is being delayed by real life work and such. So far I've decided on just having the Px Chemicals and Industrial Chemicals without a skill group. You will still have to specialise on a specific drug, like Nitro, if you want to specialise. Since you guys are on the lowest of the low in gang scale, which is in turn the lowest of the low in crime sindicates, instead of you guys actually creating the drugs from scratch, you will be using the active skills to 'cut' the drugs purchased through a contact or other source. I've yet to fully write up a ruleset for that, but thats my plan. The result should be quicker 'processing' of the drugs while still being relativly realistic and not overpowering. |
Yeah, that's almost exactly what I was thinking in terms of us Chemists, at least to start things off. Perhaps we can get into drug production later, but we can deal with that when it comes up.
@All
Since I'm also a NPCGer, I don't feel like I should be weighing in too strongly on the OPCG stuff. It makes sense to run protection rackets on businesses on your turf, mostly just so you can keep them in line. It would be a smart idea to figure out what other gangs in the area charge for protection and then charge a bit less.
@rob
I know Legion is a big target, but that's kind of the point. If we fake his death then when the new gang shows up we won't be taken nearly as seriously. I suppose it could work if we handled it well, having him show back up after his rumored death, but we're going to need him be pretty high profile if the new gang is gonna work.
Its suppose to be all hammerpack but I imagine stuff will just carry over to the NPCG. I dont see how you can talk about the Hammerpack and not about how it will shape the NPCG. Organization, rituals, colors, symbols will probably be heavily influenced by the Hammerpack since half the gang is made up of them including the leader.
I think it would be kool if Legion was a hard ass with the Ghurkas, a hard ass with the Hammerpack and now he has finally learned his lesson and this time he is going to be more of a protector gang or even more evil with very strict policies. Maybe it was reverse. Wussy > somewhat disciplined > hardcore strict.
What did he learn with each destruction of his gang?
I think it would be kool if Legion was a hard ass with the Ghurkas, a hard ass with the Hammerpack and now he has finally learned his lesson and this time he is going to be more of a protector gang or even more evil with very strict policies. Maybe it was reverse. Wussy > somewhat disciplined > hardcore strict.
What did he learn with each destruction of his gang?
| QUOTE (rob) |
| As for saddam, the small dude with the viable superpower interested in him (ahem, raider nation), look where it got him. |
It seems to have worked out somewhat better for Osama....
@rob: Ink has a monopoly on tats and that's about it. How do you figure this will translate to a scam?
On Legion's living/dying: I dunno, would a guy like Legion be willing to fake his own death? Sides would the Kingsgate area believe that he was dead, I personally doubt it. Somehow I see the variuos leaders of other gangs going, "No fragging way Legion is gone". Grendel, I would love to your input on this.
On Legion's living/dying: I dunno, would a guy like Legion be willing to fake his own death? Sides would the Kingsgate area believe that he was dead, I personally doubt it. Somehow I see the variuos leaders of other gangs going, "No fragging way Legion is gone". Grendel, I would love to your input on this.
Given how big of a pivotal player Legion is supposed to be (based off Shade's journals, and Grendel's rep at being a badass) "faking" his death seems to feel like committing suicide for the gang. Or at least painting a giant neon pink target on our backs.
I mean he's the one big thing the NPCG is gonna have going for it (besides the eagerness of the ganger's to stay alive) and to bury that proverbial ace in the hole just seems completely foolish to me.
I mean he's the one big thing the NPCG is gonna have going for it (besides the eagerness of the ganger's to stay alive) and to bury that proverbial ace in the hole just seems completely foolish to me.
Gang with a 'Living' Legion = Target that can fight back
Gang with a 'Dead' Legion = Roadkill/Free stuff/Food
Gang with a 'Dead' Legion = Roadkill/Free stuff/Food
Perhaps we could circulate a rumor at some point that he was dead, invite another gang to attack us haphazerdly (cause you know Legions dead) and then hand them their butt and take over their territory.
| QUOTE (Shadow) |
| Perhaps we could circulate a rumor at some point that he was dead, invite another gang to attack us haphazerdly (cause you know Legions dead) and then hand them their butt and take over their territory. |
This is a good idea, but I don't think we want to try it until we're a little set up and can properly hand them their butts.
Legion cannot die, he can only be exorcised.
Oh gods, Legion is inhabited by a master shedim, isn't he?
| QUOTE |
| So the vignette is just a short account of each character's role in their gang being destroyed? And all I need to follow is that Asphalt Kings first attacked Brickhouse Boys on the 19th and they finished them off on the 31st, right? |
Correct. A vignette is a short IC acount of your character's role in the final battle. Note that you can have vignettes for other events as well. This is encouraged but not required.
The main rule of thumb is you cannot impact the storyline, major NPCs, or PCs in a material and permanent manner without permission. Beyond that, you're free to write whatever you like.
| QUOTE |
Are the numbers on the Rival Gang's sections of the wiki pre-gang war, or post-gang war? Or are those numbers we're even gonna know? |
You won't know. It's one of the many surprises we would hate to spoil for you all by giving that information away.
Konsaki is also correct that a Gang Knowledge roll will help you guess, but ultimately short of taking a head count you'll never have an exact figure.
| QUOTE |
| One way to both establish dominance over the turf and interface with the population is to charge protection rackets for individuals and businesses, AND THEN ACTUALLY PROTECT THEM... |
What a novel idea. Actually protecting people you took protection money from. Are you SURE Bockscar's a criminal?
Abbandon's vignette is up.
General Announcement
OK Everyone, here's a long-awaited update on our estimated start date.
By my reckoning, here are the major things that MUST be done before we can start:
1. Get all characters Ready and Approved.
2. Place all Locales on the main map. Update the wiki maps.
3. Submit reward requests and receive rewards.
4. Final version of other gangs and Shade's Journal.
Did I miss anything important anyone thinks must be done prior to game start? If so please tell me.
If possible, does the wiki staff think it could add a blown up version of each particular gang's turf to the Map section? That might make it easier to spot the locales and see the details of each gang.
Also, can we label the current map 'Pre Gang War' or something like that, because I'll be editing the map once the game starts to reflect the changing turf borders in the wake of the Gang War.
Important Dates
Looking at what we have on our list of things to do, I think we can start by either Friday, June 15 or Monday, June 18, to be announced with certainty shortly.
As of Thursday, May 31, here are the Real Life Deadlines for the next two weeks.
1. Input your PC's Location and Activity on the Event Registry (on the wiki) under the title 'Game Start' by Thursday, June 14 00:00:00 US Central Time.
2. Have your character MARKED 'READY' on the wiki by Monday, June 11, 00:00:00 US Central Time.
This gives you as players about another week and a half to finish your characters and have them to Konsaki for review, gives him Tuesday through Thursday to approve characters, and gives me about two days to put the pieces together for game start on Friday, or I can push it to Monday if something unforseen comes up, which gives me the weekend to work on it.
OK Everyone, here's a long-awaited update on our estimated start date.
By my reckoning, here are the major things that MUST be done before we can start:
1. Get all characters Ready and Approved.
2. Place all Locales on the main map. Update the wiki maps.
3. Submit reward requests and receive rewards.
4. Final version of other gangs and Shade's Journal.
Did I miss anything important anyone thinks must be done prior to game start? If so please tell me.
If possible, does the wiki staff think it could add a blown up version of each particular gang's turf to the Map section? That might make it easier to spot the locales and see the details of each gang.
Also, can we label the current map 'Pre Gang War' or something like that, because I'll be editing the map once the game starts to reflect the changing turf borders in the wake of the Gang War.
Important Dates
Looking at what we have on our list of things to do, I think we can start by either Friday, June 15 or Monday, June 18, to be announced with certainty shortly.
As of Thursday, May 31, here are the Real Life Deadlines for the next two weeks.
1. Input your PC's Location and Activity on the Event Registry (on the wiki) under the title 'Game Start' by Thursday, June 14 00:00:00 US Central Time.
2. Have your character MARKED 'READY' on the wiki by Monday, June 11, 00:00:00 US Central Time.
This gives you as players about another week and a half to finish your characters and have them to Konsaki for review, gives him Tuesday through Thursday to approve characters, and gives me about two days to put the pieces together for game start on Friday, or I can push it to Monday if something unforseen comes up, which gives me the weekend to work on it.
@WinterRat1
What is this rewards thing, is it only for OPCG? I found the post back on page 30 or something but I'm still not sure if this is only for old players or new ones also.
Also, what are we doing as far as characters that just lost their home? Ones who were in a low lifestyle gang owned building where they were making a "living" only to have a dump truck drive through it to finish the gang off? Are we starting on the streets for all intents and purposes?
What is this rewards thing, is it only for OPCG? I found the post back on page 30 or something but I'm still not sure if this is only for old players or new ones also.
Also, what are we doing as far as characters that just lost their home? Ones who were in a low lifestyle gang owned building where they were making a "living" only to have a dump truck drive through it to finish the gang off? Are we starting on the streets for all intents and purposes?
| QUOTE |
| @WinterRat1 What is this rewards thing, is it only for OPCG? I found the post back on page 30 or something but I'm still not sure if this is only for old players or new ones also. |
Rewards are for anyone who has contributed to the creation of the game. Some people have worked on the wiki, others have created the gangs, or NPCs, or Locations, etc.
There's still time to contribute, whether Locations, NPCs, extra vignettes, or anything imaginable you can think of to flesh out the game world and add realism and depth. If you have any ideas for how you can contribute, feel free to toss them out for consideration. Alternatively, you can volunteer your services and let us know what you're interested in doing and we'll try to come up with something for you.
| QUOTE |
| Also, what are we doing as far as characters that just lost their home? Ones who were in a low lifestyle gang owned building where they were making a "living" only to have a dump truck drive through it to finish the gang off? Are we starting on the streets for all intents and purposes? |
In a word, yes.
For anyone in a low lifestyle gang owned building where they were making a 'living' only to have a dump truck drive through it to finish the gang off, I recommend putting finding a place to stay as a fairly high item on your 'to do' list.
Announcement - I'm going out of town for a wedding tonight and won't be back until Saturday night. I probably won't have online access to get caught up until Sunday night or Monday.
@ All
I'm currently trying to get ideas down for Doc's final vignette, and I was wondering if any of the ex-hammerpack boys would like a mention in it. I am going to have doc fighting members of the UV nights after the 8-Balls warehouse explosion, because he wanted revenge and that's who he decided to take it out on. Still, a one-man vendetta does not work very well, so he'd need to start working with the hammerpack on that front of the war.
I'm currently trying to get ideas down for Doc's final vignette, and I was wondering if any of the ex-hammerpack boys would like a mention in it. I am going to have doc fighting members of the UV nights after the 8-Balls warehouse explosion, because he wanted revenge and that's who he decided to take it out on. Still, a one-man vendetta does not work very well, so he'd need to start working with the hammerpack on that front of the war.
@WR1
I can totally do a "Blown up" version of the map down to each gang's territory.. but honestly here's my "beef" with that right now. If you're about to "re-work" the map with all the territories, what is the point of me building all the separate maps only to have to do them ALL over again later?
If you want me to do them "pre-war" I will do them... and I suppose I can do them over again post-war when you redesign them..I just might not be AS perky about it
And are you talking about doing separate maps for EVERY gang out there now PRE-war.. or just feeder gangs' turf or what specifically are you looking for?
Not trying to be an ass, but it's not like I can crank each one out in 2 seconds
Let me know and I'll cook things up for ya one way or the other.. I'm just cranky because I'm hungry and waiting on food
I can totally do a "Blown up" version of the map down to each gang's territory.. but honestly here's my "beef" with that right now. If you're about to "re-work" the map with all the territories, what is the point of me building all the separate maps only to have to do them ALL over again later?
If you want me to do them "pre-war" I will do them... and I suppose I can do them over again post-war when you redesign them..I just might not be AS perky about it
And are you talking about doing separate maps for EVERY gang out there now PRE-war.. or just feeder gangs' turf or what specifically are you looking for?
Not trying to be an ass, but it's not like I can crank each one out in 2 seconds
Let me know and I'll cook things up for ya one way or the other.. I'm just cranky because I'm hungry and waiting on food
Vegas - That makes sense. Don't do anything yet. We'll work on how to do the maps in the most efficient and effective way possible when I get back.
@WR
okies.. won't really do anything till you get back on the map front... Unless while you're gone... are we planning on doing the entire 'finding new turf' thing in-game starting at Midnight on the 1st?
Or is that something we can start *seriously* kicking around now that we've got an actual deadline looming for play to start?
ps have you been getting PM's from me? apparently some that I've sent haven't reached their intended targets and since I sent you the "rewards" one and at least one or two more concerning Halo and some Nevada fiction just wanted to make sure they're not out in the digital void somewhere
okies.. won't really do anything till you get back on the map front... Unless while you're gone... are we planning on doing the entire 'finding new turf' thing in-game starting at Midnight on the 1st?
Or is that something we can start *seriously* kicking around now that we've got an actual deadline looming for play to start?
ps have you been getting PM's from me? apparently some that I've sent haven't reached their intended targets and since I sent you the "rewards" one and at least one or two more concerning Halo and some Nevada fiction just wanted to make sure they're not out in the digital void somewhere
I would imagine you will want to find new turf in-game, since right now you don't know the current situation. You could pick a turf OOC that is a complete disaster IC without even knowing it.
I got your PMs regarding Halo, I didn't get one with any Nevada fiction, can you resend it to me?
I got your PMs regarding Halo, I didn't get one with any Nevada fiction, can you resend it to me?
Thread re route sorry 
Some thoughts I had in RL and thought I'd see what you folks said.
I realize that I'm a newb etc. so you all may take anything I say with a grain of salt. Or ignore me completely That being said here I go
On Tactics
A few questions spring to mind. One is, How close does Legion follow the Viking traditions. Example does the whole Pack pile into a car or van and drive into Touristville for some well earned "viking" (It's a word trust me, The Viking's used it to mean travelling, usually with some raiding mixed in) Does he get cavalry (Bikes, cars etc.) tactics. The Vikings didn't and got their hoop kicked for it in Russia. (So it might be up to those of you with bikes to organize your own strategy there, rob prolly another job for Bockscar)
On the 162s
rob I realize you did not want the 162s to be a bogeyman but they prolly are going to end up becomeing one. That being said I am keeping the rest of my thoughts on the 162s to myself. I refuse to have my own ideas used against me. (It's happened to me before, and I'm not letting it happen again) One thing I will say is my fellow PCs should look up info on African droughts (It's valid trust me) Some stuff I am willing to talk about is the political impact of our neighbourhood flesh munchers. Most if not all the remaining gang leaders are going to be considering the ghouls impact on the hood. They will be thinking "What will the 162s do if I do this?" especially in view of them destroying the Splintered Crash.
Some thoughts I had in RL and thought I'd see what you folks said.
I realize that I'm a newb etc. so you all may take anything I say with a grain of salt. Or ignore me completely
That being said here I goOn Tactics
A few questions spring to mind. One is, How close does Legion follow the Viking traditions. Example does the whole Pack pile into a car or van and drive into Touristville for some well earned "viking" (It's a word trust me, The Viking's used it to mean travelling, usually with some raiding mixed in) Does he get cavalry (Bikes, cars etc.) tactics. The Vikings didn't and got their hoop kicked for it in Russia. (So it might be up to those of you with bikes to organize your own strategy there, rob prolly another job for Bockscar)
On the 162s
rob I realize you did not want the 162s to be a bogeyman but they prolly are going to end up becomeing one. That being said I am keeping the rest of my thoughts on the 162s to myself. I refuse to have my own ideas used against me. (It's happened to me before, and I'm not letting it happen again) One thing I will say is my fellow PCs should look up info on African droughts (It's valid trust me) Some stuff I am willing to talk about is the political impact of our neighbourhood flesh munchers. Most if not all the remaining gang leaders are going to be considering the ghouls impact on the hood. They will be thinking "What will the 162s do if I do this?" especially in view of them destroying the Splintered Crash.
| QUOTE (Shadow) |
| Organization Essentiially Legion was the boss, but, he had 1 or 2 liuetenants who oversaw the day to day operation of the gang. Each LT had a go to guy for his area. Then under each LT was the setup of the gang. Drug Selling, Protection, Hookers, Tagging, etc. Then directly under Legion would be the Enforcers. The job of the Enforcers would be to protect the gang and show the force when needed. Relationship with Locals To be honest, I think we would walk all over them. I don't see Legion being all cudly with the people of our neighborhood. They pay protection, give us stuff, let us have our way with there women, they don't die. They don't turn on us becuase they know that no other gang is any better. Better the devil you know. Were not some after school special of a gang, were ruthless and bitter, and mean. This is what the streets have done to us. In short, were viloent, mean, and in charge. Or at least we were, till we got taken down by the other gangs. My guess is this is how (or something like it) set up the new gang. |
@Shadow -
Dude, I love your comments. I TOTALLY love your "after-school special" comment. I am completely in agreement that this should be a gritty campaign, and believe I have made my own modest contributions to stemming the slow creep of candy-assness wherever it encroaches upon our wonderland of squalor and misery.
Anyway, I see your thoughts on organization and the locals as interestingly counterpoised with my own.
I endorsed less gang structure, but more restraint with the locals.
You endorsed more gang structure, but less restraint with the locals.
The thing is, I see some friction between the two parts of your proposition. And I see the same problem with my own proposition, to an extent.
Seems to me that the kind of guys that would set up a gang structure as well organized as you have described would also know how to maximize the payoff on the limited resources of their turf, which you don't do by raping and pillaging everything in sight.
Likewise, in my scenario, how would the largely disorganized gang I suggested implement the Hearts & Minds policies I described.
The solution to that quandary, at least in my mind, is as follows:
Yes, if Grack and many of the other gangers had their way, it would be open season on anything any ganger wanted anytime. That said, however, at the top of the gang are guys like Legion, who is smart enough to know some gut-level economics and PR, and strong enough to enforce his will. All it takes is a few simple dos and don'ts orders to be passed down, and a few rulebreakers to be tortured and killed, for an otherwise uncivilized pack of animals to conduct business under the guiding hand of the few smart guys.
There is nothing after-school special about harboring your resources. You have essentially a captive population. You absolutely plan to milk and exploit them mercilessly. But you can have it all now, killing your golden goose, or you cen eke it out of them slowly enough that they don't bleed dry.
And given a leader like Legion, whom we are told combines the smarts and strength to make that happen, I think that is how the Hammerpack was, and I think that is how we should set things up in the future.
(And yes, this discussion is hopefully about both past and present. The past to help us flesh out our characters, the present as an OOC tactical discussion of how best to "win" the game. I have no doubt Legion will be fairly autocratic, but it is possible that grendel will invite discussion of policy.)
Okay, that is just my own personal "private citizen" response to the ongoing debate.
I will do my daily roundup tonight in a brief summary format, and as objectively as humanly possible.
| QUOTE (Meriss) |
| They will be thinking "What will the 162s do if I do this?" especially in view of them destroying the Splintered Crash. |
I know a little guy who probably plans on going after the 162s, no matter what
@Meriss:
With the tat thing, I was mentioning scam only insofar as it makes money...
As far as the 162s, the way I *want* or envisioned them played when I wrote them means absolutely nothing to nobody but me. We'll see. Bockscar (knowing what he knows with a Redmond Gang knowledge of 6) would suggest talking rather than fighting at first glance.
@Yoip:
I just wrote that asphalt kings vignette because it sounded cool to me. Brickhouse boys could've had multiple chop shops (which would have *later* had dump trucks driven through them...), and feel free to alter my vignette or whatever. No matter to me.
@Konsaki:
Altered bockscar slightly; no BP adjustment, but some numbers adjustments.
Cheers
rob
With the tat thing, I was mentioning scam only insofar as it makes money...
As far as the 162s, the way I *want* or envisioned them played when I wrote them means absolutely nothing to nobody but me. We'll see. Bockscar (knowing what he knows with a Redmond Gang knowledge of 6) would suggest talking rather than fighting at first glance.
@Yoip:
I just wrote that asphalt kings vignette because it sounded cool to me. Brickhouse boys could've had multiple chop shops (which would have *later* had dump trucks driven through them...), and feel free to alter my vignette or whatever. No matter to me.
@Konsaki:
Altered bockscar slightly; no BP adjustment, but some numbers adjustments.
[ Spoiler ]
) to 10 hits Cram (200 Cheers
rob
@rob:
I had planned on using the wartoad in a raid against a second shop (if you look at the hybrid google turf map you'll see that these turfs are pretty small in a city scale) near the end of the month and then a final finishing-them-off battle on the 31st. Kamikazed Brickhouse Boys who only want revenge, more careful ones who prefer to live, and one chemist crippling some big vehicle with a thermite grenade.
I can't see having more that a couple shops in their turf with car jackings extending into the rest of the metroplex. Similarly I can't see having more that a couple large HQ buildings in most of these turfs.
I had planned on using the wartoad in a raid against a second shop (if you look at the hybrid google turf map you'll see that these turfs are pretty small in a city scale) near the end of the month and then a final finishing-them-off battle on the 31st. Kamikazed Brickhouse Boys who only want revenge, more careful ones who prefer to live, and one chemist crippling some big vehicle with a thermite grenade.
I can't see having more that a couple shops in their turf with car jackings extending into the rest of the metroplex. Similarly I can't see having more that a couple large HQ buildings in most of these turfs.
Added Child's take on oct 30th.
Would anyone mind if I had a bike from a different gang (aka painted in its colors) to start with? Im thinking that would be the best way to justify having one given how SSR went out.
And made changes to Child, should be ready to submit for review.
Would anyone mind if I had a bike from a different gang (aka painted in its colors) to start with? Im thinking that would be the best way to justify having one given how SSR went out.
And made changes to Child, should be ready to submit for review.
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