On one hand I could give some very good numbers and very well educated guess how long cooking up some stuff would take.
On the other, for purposes of the game mechanics I'm into abstracting it.
My first suggestion is that any attempt to manufacture multiple doses require a "Shop" (p. 322).
Second that the extended test interval be the "Long" or Consuming" (p. 58), which works out to hours or days to cook up a batch. (Which is close enough to reality)
As WR1 has said already. Gang won't have the Shop, and the players will definitely not have fun locking themselves out for hours or days of IC, which translates into months or years of forum game time.
Full Version: Down in the Gutter
Pages: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29
So is having a chemist even to make "simple" drugs worth it? I knew that it would take a bit of time to make things but if it will take almost forever to do on the forum then I'll come up with a more reasonable character
I think a chemist is a perfectly reasonable character. It may be that he's a longer-term character in a shorter-term game, so it's just a matter of what you want to RP. A chemist who wants to get back to work but can't because his lab's been blown up and is out of sorts because he's gotta do stuff like 'go outside' and 'interact with others' would be pretty fun. 
Now, if the game is social and combat oriented and your guy is a chump at one or both, then... it's up to you if RPing being bad at that would be fun. It could be really fun.
The journal's making me want to revisit my background quite a bit. The events of the past month are gonna reset what Badmarsh's priorities are a lot. And what his focus is.
Now, if the game is social and combat oriented and your guy is a chump at one or both, then... it's up to you if RPing being bad at that would be fun. It could be really fun.
The journal's making me want to revisit my background quite a bit. The events of the past month are gonna reset what Badmarsh's priorities are a lot. And what his focus is.
Nothing is set in stone until a character is brought into gameplay, and even then you might be able to get away with some changes depending on the reasoning behind it.
If you wish to remake your character though, it will have to go through the review again on the Wiki so I can double check the numbers behind it.
If you wish to remake your character though, it will have to go through the review again on the Wiki so I can double check the numbers behind it.
Sparky, Im kinda looking at the same thing, thinking of using the journal to tweak some things, see how Child would fit into things.
I'll weigh in more later, but quick thing. A chemist is a practical character. A one man drug production facility is not.
So don't change your character because of the rules, they'll still be viable and they sound really cool! But don't expect to be exporting boxes of drugs on a weekly basis either, because that won't happen.
So don't change your character because of the rules, they'll still be viable and they sound really cool! But don't expect to be exporting boxes of drugs on a weekly basis either, because that won't happen.
While I have a little time, does anyone want a floor plan of any of the specific Turf Locals that are up on the Wiki?
I have Plastic Sushi, Waffle Ho's, and Ground Zero, just about done.
Ill be ready to crank out what will be our Doss' as soon as we find it. Or someone let me know roughly what it might be so I can get a head start on it.
And the more I read the journal entries, the more I read those journal entires, the more that I like this game.
I have Plastic Sushi, Waffle Ho's, and Ground Zero, just about done.
Ill be ready to crank out what will be our Doss' as soon as we find it. Or someone let me know roughly what it might be so I can get a head start on it.
And the more I read the journal entries, the more I read those journal entires, the more that I like this game.
Lindt if you're looking for some more Locales you can do the Gato. It's just your basic mom and pop grocery/convenience store. There is a small two bedroom apartment above it. I know it doesn't sound like much, sorry not come up with something more interesting.
Oh Lindt, I agree I can't hardly wait!
@Wiki Staff: If you guys don't mind I'll do one sentence descrips on the roster page. No offense it's looking a little bare. Also I added Trojan to the roster
Oh Lindt, I agree I can't hardly wait!
@Wiki Staff: If you guys don't mind I'll do one sentence descrips on the roster page. No offense it's looking a little bare. Also I added Trojan to the roster
| QUOTE (Meriss) |
| @Wiki Staff: If you guys don't mind I'll do one sentence descrips on the roster page. No offense it's looking a little bare. Also I added Trojan to the roster |
I've got no problem with it.. just as long as everyone knows they can go in and change them
I'm probably gonna reformat that page to at some point. Right now it;s next to useless.
The chemist forced to gather materials himself and even forced to do petty crime sounds like fun. Now that his gang decided to go to war he's forced out of the lab with out any thing but the last batch of drugs he cooked up and one pepper punch grenadeOnce the gang starts making money (might be a long time but still..) hiring near slave labor to do the menial parts of production might be practical. Of course then we'll need members to work guard duty instead of scrounging but at that point the drugs should pay enough. But I'm getting way ahead of myself.
I'll stick with the chemist. Which chem skills are we going with? For now is it safe enough to buy a group up to 2 for a general chemist? I need to know how much bp to set aside for this is all. Also doing a search through all the approved characters backgrounds I couldn't find a reference to brickhouse boys. Am I the only one who chose them as a feeder gang? And since the feeder gang page doesn't specify, how did they die off?
I'll stick with the chemist. Which chem skills are we going with? For now is it safe enough to buy a group up to 2 for a general chemist? I need to know how much bp to set aside for this is all. Also doing a search through all the approved characters backgrounds I couldn't find a reference to brickhouse boys. Am I the only one who chose them as a feeder gang? And since the feeder gang page doesn't specify, how did they die off?
@Yoip: Yeah, and there's a lot of stuff we can do with the chemistry in the mean time. Manufacturing new drugs may be a non-starter, unless our characters are deep into horticulture or raid a pharmacy.... But, given a supply of whatever, it's nice to know how to make it last or whether it's any good... And who cares if we can't make pepper punch grenades - throwing a 5-gallon jerry can of the raw stuff through a window would probably make most people leave the building on the double-time.
I think Carjack Malone's character, Johnny Soho, is our other ex-garcon du la maison brick.
-rob
I think Carjack Malone's character, Johnny Soho, is our other ex-garcon du la maison brick.
-rob
I just thought about it for a sec and realized that a lot of drugs are shipped in and just get cut here. Then others like meth are really dependent on a stable market system for commonly available stuff. A new gang in the barrens doesn't really have either. So the chemist would really just be the guy who cuts drugs that the gang can get a hold of. How do gangs get a hold of drugs now? Just a supply chain that probably goes through some organized crime? If thats the case then shouldn't someone in the gang know how and where to pick up one of the now dead gangs supplies?
For stuff that is cooked in house like meth I just looked up a recipe where the amount of time waiting for things to cook or cool is about 5 and a half hours plus a whole bunch of measuring, mixing, and pouring involved. It's supposed to make 2-3 grams. Another site said prices are anywhere from $20 for .25g to $200 for 3.5g. So selling in small quantities you are getting $150-$300 for one person making one batch at a time for something like 8 hours. That is using todays stats. Numbers on Cram aren't available yet.
I'm going to assume this is an easier to make drug, but it's still making a drug. So assuming an 8 threshold and a drug making stat of 6 (what is an average hit? 1 per 3 dice? 1 per 4?) that is 4-6intervals. So 4-6 hours. Thats faster than it should be but 4 days is way too long.
And from what I've read about how easy it is to make it should only take a "kit" to make. Although the kit is only usable for meth a shop should have enough equipment to make any kind of drug.
I don't think that drug making is something that I can lock my character away and come out once a day with ¥300 worth of product and actually have fun playing no matter how close to reality that is for some. But with the gangs help we should be able to do something like meet once a week to make enough cram to sell to a syndicate or something. Even the two chemists should be able to make a whole bunch of product in not that much time with the right supplies. As you said though, getting the supplies might be an adventure in itself.
That gave me a balancing/nerfing idea. Kits are usable for one substance, category (opiate, amphetamine, etc..), or specialization while shops can do one skill, and factories can do anything in the group.
Also, "is our other ex-garcon du la maison brick"->"is our other ex-boy of the other house brick." French breaks perfectly good English.
I never thought I would be discussing drugs in this much detail. For someone who's never done drugs or hung out with active drug users doing something like look up how to make meth just feels weird. Thank you fasa/wizkids/fanpro for making a setting to broaden my horizons.
For stuff that is cooked in house like meth I just looked up a recipe where the amount of time waiting for things to cook or cool is about 5 and a half hours plus a whole bunch of measuring, mixing, and pouring involved. It's supposed to make 2-3 grams. Another site said prices are anywhere from $20 for .25g to $200 for 3.5g. So selling in small quantities you are getting $150-$300 for one person making one batch at a time for something like 8 hours. That is using todays stats. Numbers on Cram aren't available yet.
I'm going to assume this is an easier to make drug, but it's still making a drug. So assuming an 8 threshold and a drug making stat of 6 (what is an average hit? 1 per 3 dice? 1 per 4?) that is 4-6intervals. So 4-6 hours. Thats faster than it should be but 4 days is way too long.
And from what I've read about how easy it is to make it should only take a "kit" to make. Although the kit is only usable for meth a shop should have enough equipment to make any kind of drug.
I don't think that drug making is something that I can lock my character away and come out once a day with ¥300 worth of product and actually have fun playing no matter how close to reality that is for some. But with the gangs help we should be able to do something like meet once a week to make enough cram to sell to a syndicate or something. Even the two chemists should be able to make a whole bunch of product in not that much time with the right supplies. As you said though, getting the supplies might be an adventure in itself.
That gave me a balancing/nerfing idea. Kits are usable for one substance, category (opiate, amphetamine, etc..), or specialization while shops can do one skill, and factories can do anything in the group.
Also, "is our other ex-garcon du la maison brick"->"is our other ex-boy of the other house brick." French breaks perfectly good English.
I never thought I would be discussing drugs in this much detail. For someone who's never done drugs or hung out with active drug users doing something like look up how to make meth just feels weird. Thank you fasa/wizkids/fanpro for making a setting to broaden my horizons.
@yoip: Yeah, but it sounds funny to say 'brickhouse boys' in fancy pants terms. I stand beside my sense of humor. *fakes indignation.*
As for the drug stuff - I think the balance issue is pretty much worked out - lets not impose any more restrictions on ourselves, I'm sure the GMs will do that just fine...
Our gang's take on the industry would probably be on the retail end; we'd sell the supply syndicates would import or manufacture. However, syndicates are scum too, and we'd need to have a chemist to know (a) if they're selling us good stuff, (b) how to make more money above and beyond their (probably exorbitant) cut. If we'd work out a deal with someone like the Outlanders or whomever owns the Plastic Gardens to grow stuff, we could probably buy and prepare the raw materials and sell it to a syndicate, later to come back for resale...
As for the drug stuff - I think the balance issue is pretty much worked out - lets not impose any more restrictions on ourselves, I'm sure the GMs will do that just fine...
Our gang's take on the industry would probably be on the retail end; we'd sell the supply syndicates would import or manufacture. However, syndicates are scum too, and we'd need to have a chemist to know (a) if they're selling us good stuff, (b) how to make more money above and beyond their (probably exorbitant) cut. If we'd work out a deal with someone like the Outlanders or whomever owns the Plastic Gardens to grow stuff, we could probably buy and prepare the raw materials and sell it to a syndicate, later to come back for resale...
Good point about retail. Testing and knowing if we can cut it to make more money would probably be the easiest thing to do, especially game play wise.
I wonder if the French have ever published much Engrish? Do the French even ship their games to English speaking countries? If I remember correctly XIII was French, but they gave a special thanks to Elvis and God, so it's ok. It was also well translated.
One more question. How do you rule sneaking around in plain sight trying not to attract attention? A high threshold infiltration or it is intuition and luck? I can almost see shadowing except that shadowing is more like infiltration hiding from one guy, this is like shadowing everyone on the street hoping none of them realize you aren't supposed to be there.
I wonder if the French have ever published much Engrish? Do the French even ship their games to English speaking countries? If I remember correctly XIII was French, but they gave a special thanks to Elvis and God, so it's ok. It was also well translated.
One more question. How do you rule sneaking around in plain sight trying not to attract attention? A high threshold infiltration or it is intuition and luck? I can almost see shadowing except that shadowing is more like infiltration hiding from one guy, this is like shadowing everyone on the street hoping none of them realize you aren't supposed to be there.
Quick comment for those who missed it in my above reply:
| QUOTE |
| Here is my idea. Obviously Shade had to have gathered his information from somewhere, and given that his new fellow gangers will literally be from all over the place, they'd be a pretty good place to start. I'm thinking of adding sections to his journal along the lines of 'Personal Recollections of Event X by Person Y as related to Shade' or something like that, written in an IC format, by you all, for your PCs. For example, in the section where the Lost Boys were invaded by Brute Force, I would want to include an IC section written by DireRadiant for Tootles, as Tootles would have related the whole event to Shade. Similiarly, for any of the Hammerpack members, write up an IC recollection of events they were involved in, such as the invasion of Raider Nation, being hit by the Ultraviolet Nights, etc. Write it in an IC format as if your character was telling their story/recollections to Shade, and I'll insert them in the appropriate parts. Then we get all the benefits Adamu was mentioning, it's way cooler because you guys get to flesh out your characters in everyone's minds and write them into the history, and it will be much more true to your characters than if I did it for you. Obviously the facts have to stay within the boundaries of the history I've established (e.g. You can't say you assassinated Al Davis...although a story about how you planned to do so but failed could be very interesting reading and potentially allowable), but beyond that, since it's entirely from your character's point of view, you can write it however you want. So DireRadiant can write Tootles' recollections entirely in the whole 'fighting pirates' thing I could never pull off. What do you all think of that? |
If anyone has time, I'd definitely like some IC vignettes recalling your characters' participation in various parts of the Gang War so I can start putting up some examples.
So any of the gangs not blown up during a big drug production are assumed to have been killed during the Gang War?
I was just checking out the Heartbreakers in the Rival section and thier logo of a broken heart should be outlined in barbed wire or thorns!!
Fool's cameo: Maybe just a little tidbit about him going crazy with a knife and defending the SSR base from one of the initial attacks into SSR turf. You could highlight/fluff his speed(wired) or toughness(dermal plates). I already have him elsewhere when the place gets trashed by a firebomb.
Fool's cameo: Maybe just a little tidbit about him going crazy with a knife and defending the SSR base from one of the initial attacks into SSR turf. You could highlight/fluff his speed(wired) or toughness(dermal plates). I already have him elsewhere when the place gets trashed by a firebomb.
@Winter - well, I have half a dozen projects I am eager to do regarding this game, but I will definitely include some IC recollections for Shade's journal.
I think your idea is much better than mine, the way it sidesteps any potential player complaints about the handling of their characters, and just plain allows for a real variety of voices.
Unclear, however, as to whether you wanted those PMed to you, or for us just to edit them into Shade's journal, maybe with some sort of header to set them off from the main text.
@Any OPCG people - PM me if you want to coordinate a dual vignette to insert. All the better to establish our pre-game relationships.
@Back to Winter - Much much more I would love to continue to discuss vis a vis your comments - dude, you have got my mind freaking swirling about this campaign night and day, I just can't keep up with all the stuff I want to send you/post here/get on the wiki - but the hour grows late.
I think your idea is much better than mine, the way it sidesteps any potential player complaints about the handling of their characters, and just plain allows for a real variety of voices.
Unclear, however, as to whether you wanted those PMed to you, or for us just to edit them into Shade's journal, maybe with some sort of header to set them off from the main text.
@Any OPCG people - PM me if you want to coordinate a dual vignette to insert. All the better to establish our pre-game relationships.
@Back to Winter - Much much more I would love to continue to discuss vis a vis your comments - dude, you have got my mind freaking swirling about this campaign night and day, I just can't keep up with all the stuff I want to send you/post here/get on the wiki - but the hour grows late.
Call me crazy but should we take a bit of a "roll call" here since some of our ranks haven't posted/piped in for a while?
I know Gadsenflag gracefully bowed out (at least temporarily) because of connectivity issues...
Has anyone seen/heard from Cedric lately?
Are the people who ARE around and ARE posting in threads going to finish up CS's in time for game start (CS's, takes, gear, mechanics etc) or are there people out there who need help with them still as far as getting them up on the wiki.. No, i'm not offering to write them for you
I know Gadsenflag gracefully bowed out (at least temporarily) because of connectivity issues...
Has anyone seen/heard from Cedric lately?
Are the people who ARE around and ARE posting in threads going to finish up CS's in time for game start (CS's, takes, gear, mechanics etc) or are there people out there who need help with them still as far as getting them up on the wiki.. No, i'm not offering to write them for you
By and by; I'd just like to warn everyone that I will be moving on the 1st of June. So my online presence might be a little flaky during that time.
Well, after reading the last couple pages I've got a few things to add.
Firstly, I'm going to be reworking my character concept for Doc significantly. After the discussion in the thread here, I've realised that making a straight-up chemist is going to require a lot of time and would likely exclude the character from a lot of the events that have been planned out for the game and look like a lot of fun. I'm going to shift doc's race to a troll, and make him an antisocial chemist who can now kick a significant degree of ass if need be. There's a part of me that really likes playing trolls with pretty good mental attributes, so I'll be rolling with that. I'll alter my concept accordingly (the important parts will still be the same) but I'll put it up in the recruitment thread sometime today. The major parts of his background will still remain the same, I think.
Additionally, I was planning on using my "mundanes get one item up to availability 12" thing to purchase a drug making shop, but the discussion here has convinced me to basically forgo that and just have him start with a kit, and part of the fun of playing the two chemists can be their search for drugmaking materials. Basically, I think the most easy money can be had in cutting raw drugs to get larger quantities of cut stuff, and then selling that. We can also have the chemists make crack out of pure nova, too, or make nitro, which the book seems to suggest is a combo of Novacoke and other drugs. Stuff like that would be both short term, and profitable for the gang.
@Winter - Assuming the 8-Ball's factory explosion occurred sometime during the gang war (I'm not 100% sure on the timeline) then he was probably sidelined for a large part of it. I could write up something about the factory explosion though, but I'd need to consult with Vegas before doing that.
Firstly, I'm going to be reworking my character concept for Doc significantly. After the discussion in the thread here, I've realised that making a straight-up chemist is going to require a lot of time and would likely exclude the character from a lot of the events that have been planned out for the game and look like a lot of fun. I'm going to shift doc's race to a troll, and make him an antisocial chemist who can now kick a significant degree of ass if need be. There's a part of me that really likes playing trolls with pretty good mental attributes, so I'll be rolling with that. I'll alter my concept accordingly (the important parts will still be the same) but I'll put it up in the recruitment thread sometime today. The major parts of his background will still remain the same, I think.
Additionally, I was planning on using my "mundanes get one item up to availability 12" thing to purchase a drug making shop, but the discussion here has convinced me to basically forgo that and just have him start with a kit, and part of the fun of playing the two chemists can be their search for drugmaking materials. Basically, I think the most easy money can be had in cutting raw drugs to get larger quantities of cut stuff, and then selling that. We can also have the chemists make crack out of pure nova, too, or make nitro, which the book seems to suggest is a combo of Novacoke and other drugs. Stuff like that would be both short term, and profitable for the gang.
@Winter - Assuming the 8-Ball's factory explosion occurred sometime during the gang war (I'm not 100% sure on the timeline) then he was probably sidelined for a large part of it. I could write up something about the factory explosion though, but I'd need to consult with Vegas before doing that.
| QUOTE (Vegas) |
| Has anyone seen/heard from Cedric lately? Are the people who ARE around and ARE posting in threads going to finish up CS's in time for game start (CS's, takes, gear, mechanics etc) or are there people out there who need help with them still as far as getting them up on the wiki.. No, i'm not offering to write them for you |
I'm in another forum game with Cedric, and he let us know that he had some RL issues to deal with and that he'd be gone for a few days. I'm thinking he'll be back pretty soon, though.
I'll be working hard this week to make sure I get my entire CS up on the wiki, and thus far, the interface seems to be easy enough to use. I will be sure to PM you if I do have issues, Vegas.
@Winter: Just let me know what you need on Ink's end for IC vingettes, although he spent most of the war patching up the LoCoS (One reason he survived)
@All: I'm still here and raring to go!
@Mister Juan: *bows* Gracias mi amigo. (I read your take on Ink)
@All: I'm still here and raring to go!
@Mister Juan: *bows* Gracias mi amigo. (I read your take on Ink)
me too
| QUOTE (Meriss) |
| @Mister Juan: *bows* Gracias mi amigo. (I read your take on Ink) |
hahaha
No problem mate
Thats just how Felix sees Ink Doing those takes is actually taking me a lot more time and effort than I thought it would. It difficult to get back in head of a character who's SO different from all the other ones I play. So, for those who's takes I haven't done yet, just wait a bit. They're coming!
*stomps her feet impatiently*
But I don't wanna wait! I'm want mine NOW!
</veruca salt>
But I don't wanna wait! I'm want mine NOW!
</veruca salt>
Well, I've gotten all my background stuff and most of my takes up, and I'm just working through the rest of the character sheet, so I'm almost done! Woo!
I'm stoked to get rolling, too.
I'm stoked to get rolling, too.
Couple quick things:
1. Since a lot of people are working on their backgrounds/vignettes/inter-PC relationship details/involvement in the war/tweaking, I will finish Shade's Journal first, so everyone has a better idea of what happened during the war and can work themselves into it.
2.
1. Since a lot of people are working on their backgrounds/vignettes/inter-PC relationship details/involvement in the war/tweaking, I will finish Shade's Journal first, so everyone has a better idea of what happened during the war and can work themselves into it.
2.
| QUOTE |
| @Winter - well, I have half a dozen projects I am eager to do regarding this game, but I will definitely include some IC recollections for Shade's journal. I think your idea is much better than mine, the way it sidesteps any potential player complaints about the handling of their characters, and just plain allows for a real variety of voices. Unclear, however, as to whether you wanted those PMed to you, or for us just to edit them into Shade's journal, maybe with some sort of header to set them off from the main text. |
PM them to me and I will insert them. Please title your 'interview' with your character name, the date of the event, and some kind of title for the specific event you are referencing. (E.g. Grack - October 3, Rumble with Raider Nation at Kirkland City Park)
Note that you can do vignettes for dates not specifically covered in Shade's Journal. For example, any Hammerpack member could easily do a vignette for October 3, describing events that happened during the ongoing battle between Raider Nation and Hammerpack. As a general rule, as long as you do not materially affect what I have written in a permanent way, feel free to develop your own neat events. Obviously if your story involves another PC you should work together with the player or at least clear it with them first.
For example, saying you were involved in a major dustup between Raider Nation-Hammerpack on Oct 3 you won is ok, since there were obviously battles big and small during Oct 1-8 that both sides won and lost. You can even say perhaps you had a direct run in with Raider Nation's Offensive Coordinator and won or lost that encounter to make the enemy gangers more real and fleshed out.
Saying you managed to kill off one of Raider Nation's lieutenants is not ok, since that is a major event and would definitely affect the storyline in a permanent way. Incidentally, this is where the little details Shade does not cover (specific battles, landmarks, specific places or people, etc) should be developed by you all.
While I am willing to write up your PCs into the storyline or give suggestions, I will not do so until after my draft of the journal is complete, so everyone can see where their gangs fit in. For those whose gangs have not shown up yet, I'm getting to it ASAP.
3. Since you've been involved in the drug discussions with people Konsaki, I'll let you put together what you think the drug creation rules should be. I'll look at it and work with you from there once we've got a proposed version on the table.
Mister Juan - When you can get around to it, I'd like you to put up an updated take on Halo on Felix's Takes page, since she is quite important to his character, and it might be a good idea to put it down on his sheet for reference.
| QUOTE (WinterRat1) |
| Mister Juan - When you can get around to it, I'd like you to put up an updated take on Halo on Felix's Takes page, since she is quite important to his character, and it might be a good idea to put it down on his sheet for reference. |
Will do.
@Unarmed: Doc's takes are golden LOL
@WinterRat1
I've sat down and gave a rough try at writing Felix's take on Halo. Issue is, I need to know if "her big event" has already taken place, or is it something that Felix will know of once the dust settles from the gang war?
I've sat down and gave a rough try at writing Felix's take on Halo. Issue is, I need to know if "her big event" has already taken place, or is it something that Felix will know of once the dust settles from the gang war?
Felix will know of her 'big event' after the dust settles from the gang war. I'm working on the history of the gang war right now, it should be finished (1st draft) by tomorrow.
For now, I suggest writing his views of her as of before the Gang War. You can add anything relevant to reflect the gang war events once I have the draft version up on the wiki.
For now, I suggest writing his views of her as of before the Gang War. You can add anything relevant to reflect the gang war events once I have the draft version up on the wiki.
Ghost's personal interview (written by Shadow) regarding Raider Nation's invasion of Hammerpack on October 1 is up in Shade's Journal. Check it out for an example of what I'm looking for from your IC vignettes on the War.
Wiki GMs - I approximated a format that didn't look too terrible, please do your formatting thing when you get the chance to make it look in accordance with your standards. Thanks.
Wiki GMs - I approximated a format that didn't look too terrible, please do your formatting thing when you get the chance to make it look in accordance with your standards. Thanks.
Draft of Shade's Journal has been updated through October 19. I should be able to finish it by tomorrow, but we'll see. In the meantime, this should give everyone more to read.
Question for Winter
How to OOC Planning?
Wow, like I have mentioned, my mind is working on this thing non-stop now. And this issue is near the top of the things I want to ask you about.
All this friendly taunting from the GM staff about how all us PC are gonna die a thousand deaths is having a two-fold effect on me.
First, it is getting me pumped for the challenge!!!
Second, it is making me constantly think about how to enhance my (and everyone else's) chances for survival. The more work we all put into this, the less thrilled we will be if we get cacked right out of the chute!
And in evaluating my chances of survival, one of the first things I do is tabulate assets and liabilities.
And the biggest liability I see right now for us protagonists is a polar discrepancy between our communication capability and that of the opposition.
Now, I know that is part of the concept. Hell, I know I was an initial voice in favor of handling all NPCG organization organically, in-character.
Otherwise, I wouldn't be running this by you, Winter. I'd just be going ahead and starting some serious discussions on how our gang is going to survive.
So before you ask us to refrain from tactical discussions at this stage, let me throw out a few considerations.
1) While the NPCG is totally unformed, the OPCG existed and was powerful. And about one half to one third of the NPCG, including its leader, are from OPCG. These "plankholders" will likely be central figures in the new gang, if only because they are already known and trusted by Legion.
Thus, I think it is perfectly reasonable for us to begin talking strategy OOC now - we could be talking about how defense was handled by the OPCG.
As we all know, this desperately needs fleshing out anyway - it is something that would be intimately familiar to some of us, and probably even passingly so to those hailing from the feeder gangs.
Unfortunately, as touched on before, we currently got nada. That is no one's fault. It's just that with a dozen active posters, who (besides the designated leader, currently busy with RL) is going to step up and make those determinations? In typical forum fashion, no one wants to step on toes, and we get very little done. And what does get done is largely contradictory, as it lacks coordination.
It is the nature of the forum beast.
Which brings me to my second point -
2) If for no other reason than game balance, us players need to be cut a lot of slack when it comes to OOC planning.
The OPFOR GM idea is freaking brilliant. It saves you, the UberGM, tons of work. It gives us players the chance to play against different tactical styles. It relieves the main GM from wondering whether or not he is being "unfairly tough" on the players.
But in terms of team coordination, look at what we are up against - the other side will all be controlled by (and obedient to) a single planner at a time.
Our side will be composed of a handful of individuals that (A) know each other intimately and spend all their time together IC, but (B) communicate a few times a week and have never met OOC. This extends to environment as well - the OPFOR GMs' view of the terrain and the players' view may BOTH differ in key ways from the Uber-GM's "true" view, but at least the OPFOR GMs will be envisioning and planning based on ONE unique view, while the player side will have as many slightly differing views of our environment as there are players, a huge tactical disadvantage.
Thus, even if you allow us unlimited OOC "table-talk" we will never have a shadow of the "hive mind" coordination the opposition will enjoy.
So there it is, my case for letting us start talking tactics NOW. (You might have said yes right away - but I am nothing if not loquacious.)
In fact, I would be in favor of establishing a separate thread dedicated to discussion of (1) OPCG organization, roles, and tactics and (2) ideas on how we will will work together for survival once our characters have met IC.
All that said, I could totally see your point if you would prefer to have us hold off on such discussion and handle it from the ground up IC-wise.
How to OOC Planning?
Wow, like I have mentioned, my mind is working on this thing non-stop now. And this issue is near the top of the things I want to ask you about.
All this friendly taunting from the GM staff about how all us PC are gonna die a thousand deaths is having a two-fold effect on me.
First, it is getting me pumped for the challenge!!!
Second, it is making me constantly think about how to enhance my (and everyone else's) chances for survival. The more work we all put into this, the less thrilled we will be if we get cacked right out of the chute!
And in evaluating my chances of survival, one of the first things I do is tabulate assets and liabilities.
And the biggest liability I see right now for us protagonists is a polar discrepancy between our communication capability and that of the opposition.
Now, I know that is part of the concept. Hell, I know I was an initial voice in favor of handling all NPCG organization organically, in-character.
Otherwise, I wouldn't be running this by you, Winter. I'd just be going ahead and starting some serious discussions on how our gang is going to survive.
So before you ask us to refrain from tactical discussions at this stage, let me throw out a few considerations.
1) While the NPCG is totally unformed, the OPCG existed and was powerful. And about one half to one third of the NPCG, including its leader, are from OPCG. These "plankholders" will likely be central figures in the new gang, if only because they are already known and trusted by Legion.
Thus, I think it is perfectly reasonable for us to begin talking strategy OOC now - we could be talking about how defense was handled by the OPCG.
As we all know, this desperately needs fleshing out anyway - it is something that would be intimately familiar to some of us, and probably even passingly so to those hailing from the feeder gangs.
Unfortunately, as touched on before, we currently got nada. That is no one's fault. It's just that with a dozen active posters, who (besides the designated leader, currently busy with RL) is going to step up and make those determinations? In typical forum fashion, no one wants to step on toes, and we get very little done. And what does get done is largely contradictory, as it lacks coordination.
It is the nature of the forum beast.
Which brings me to my second point -
2) If for no other reason than game balance, us players need to be cut a lot of slack when it comes to OOC planning.
The OPFOR GM idea is freaking brilliant. It saves you, the UberGM, tons of work. It gives us players the chance to play against different tactical styles. It relieves the main GM from wondering whether or not he is being "unfairly tough" on the players.
But in terms of team coordination, look at what we are up against - the other side will all be controlled by (and obedient to) a single planner at a time.
Our side will be composed of a handful of individuals that (A) know each other intimately and spend all their time together IC, but (B) communicate a few times a week and have never met OOC. This extends to environment as well - the OPFOR GMs' view of the terrain and the players' view may BOTH differ in key ways from the Uber-GM's "true" view, but at least the OPFOR GMs will be envisioning and planning based on ONE unique view, while the player side will have as many slightly differing views of our environment as there are players, a huge tactical disadvantage.
Thus, even if you allow us unlimited OOC "table-talk" we will never have a shadow of the "hive mind" coordination the opposition will enjoy.
So there it is, my case for letting us start talking tactics NOW. (You might have said yes right away - but I am nothing if not loquacious.)
In fact, I would be in favor of establishing a separate thread dedicated to discussion of (1) OPCG organization, roles, and tactics and (2) ideas on how we will will work together for survival once our characters have met IC.
All that said, I could totally see your point if you would prefer to have us hold off on such discussion and handle it from the ground up IC-wise.
@WR1
Question for you... considering the fact that player death is likely if not highly probable in this game....
Since we've all put blood, sweat and tears (some quite literally) into this to help get it off the ground, if our PC's die will we possibly have "first crack" to create a new character and jump back into the mix?
Yes, I am trying to come up with a backup plan if things go to shit and Konsaki and WoundedRonin decide that Bad Things are to happen to Nevada ;P
Question for you... considering the fact that player death is likely if not highly probable in this game....
Since we've all put blood, sweat and tears (some quite literally) into this to help get it off the ground, if our PC's die will we possibly have "first crack" to create a new character and jump back into the mix?
Yes, I am trying to come up with a backup plan if things go to shit and Konsaki and WoundedRonin decide that Bad Things are to happen to Nevada ;P
@Carjack: LOL! Johnny is going to be fun to play with!
@adamu: I wouldn't worry, if anyone is going to make it throu this hell it's going to be Grack.
@Winter: Ditto what Vegas said, Ink's not much of a bruiser, or a shooter for that matter. (That'll learn me for trying to make a non combat char
)
@adamu: I wouldn't worry, if anyone is going to make it throu this hell it's going to be Grack.
@Winter: Ditto what Vegas said, Ink's not much of a bruiser, or a shooter for that matter. (That'll learn me for trying to make a non combat char
)
| QUOTE (Meriss) |
| @Unarmed: Doc's takes are golden LOL |
Thanks Meriss! I think I'm getting a pretty good handle on the character.
Hey I just wanted to toss this idea out to the two chemists...
Instead of being the actual cooks why dont you guys play as the gangers who manage the cooks. They teach people how to cook, test qaulity, beat down the slaves who do the cooking so they make the stuff in time. I was thinking this way you guys would be in charge of making the stuff but you would be more part of the gang and have more combat skills.
In the movies there is usually rooms full of people sitting at tables doing stuff and then some tough ganger walking around making sure the slaves are doing what they are suppose to be doing.
Im just another lowly ganger though and its not my place to tell you guys what to play but I just wanted to toss that out there in case you had not thought of that. (pssst Konsaki, I want to be in charge of the cooks when we get settled! *cracks knuckles*.
)
Instead of being the actual cooks why dont you guys play as the gangers who manage the cooks. They teach people how to cook, test qaulity, beat down the slaves who do the cooking so they make the stuff in time. I was thinking this way you guys would be in charge of making the stuff but you would be more part of the gang and have more combat skills.
In the movies there is usually rooms full of people sitting at tables doing stuff and then some tough ganger walking around making sure the slaves are doing what they are suppose to be doing.
Im just another lowly ganger though and its not my place to tell you guys what to play but I just wanted to toss that out there in case you had not thought of that. (pssst Konsaki, I want to be in charge of the cooks when we get settled! *cracks knuckles*.
)
Brief discussion of wireless reception, moved over from the recruitment thread:
Some people were concerned because redmond is a static zone. I htink that gives the wrong impression of how the wireless matrix would work; and to be frank, that's understandable, given how crappy the SR rule book is about explaining it well. I'm going to go on record with my position of how it goes - forgive me if it's a little pedantic, but I'm not sure what our respective takes on it are.
So, here we go: The wireless matrix would be composed of an infrastructure of things like cell-phone towers and repeaters. Things like traffic lights would have small, signal 4-6 repeaters that connect to the big trunk towers; the trunk towers would probably be wired, to connect with other cities. ... blah blah blah, pedantry continues.
Redmond wouldn't have much wireless infrastructure, since any company or government that started building it would immediately see it stolen off the radio towers and resold. That's extraordinarily plausible, and exactly what happens in most poor areas. Gangs, or people who could protect their wireless assets, would have something like a sattelite feed or a wired feed or a LOS-antennae pointed at the nearest cell phone towers (all of these things a person with a hardware skill of 1 or 2 can do even today).
That's your connection to the big world. Every character would still have a PAN, it just wouldn't connect out. You'd still be seeing anyone in both commlinks' range and setting up ad-hoc networks unless your pan is in hidden mode.
It's not that RECEPTION would be shoddy, it's just that the reception, or ability to communicate at all, is determined by the signal ratings of your commlinks and comms gear. Signal rating 1 commlinks are useful in the rest of seattle, because there's always a trunk-tower that close. Out in redmond, you'd have to hope you're within the bubble of some outside connecting signal device.
I hope that's useful to yall; if yall disagree please weigh in, because it's probably pretty important we have a similar picture of what's going on (especially for the characters with some investment in hacking type stuff, like mine...)
Some people were concerned because redmond is a static zone. I htink that gives the wrong impression of how the wireless matrix would work; and to be frank, that's understandable, given how crappy the SR rule book is about explaining it well. I'm going to go on record with my position of how it goes - forgive me if it's a little pedantic, but I'm not sure what our respective takes on it are.
So, here we go: The wireless matrix would be composed of an infrastructure of things like cell-phone towers and repeaters. Things like traffic lights would have small, signal 4-6 repeaters that connect to the big trunk towers; the trunk towers would probably be wired, to connect with other cities. ... blah blah blah, pedantry continues.
Redmond wouldn't have much wireless infrastructure, since any company or government that started building it would immediately see it stolen off the radio towers and resold. That's extraordinarily plausible, and exactly what happens in most poor areas. Gangs, or people who could protect their wireless assets, would have something like a sattelite feed or a wired feed or a LOS-antennae pointed at the nearest cell phone towers (all of these things a person with a hardware skill of 1 or 2 can do even today).
That's your connection to the big world. Every character would still have a PAN, it just wouldn't connect out. You'd still be seeing anyone in both commlinks' range and setting up ad-hoc networks unless your pan is in hidden mode.
It's not that RECEPTION would be shoddy, it's just that the reception, or ability to communicate at all, is determined by the signal ratings of your commlinks and comms gear. Signal rating 1 commlinks are useful in the rest of seattle, because there's always a trunk-tower that close. Out in redmond, you'd have to hope you're within the bubble of some outside connecting signal device.
I hope that's useful to yall; if yall disagree please weigh in, because it's probably pretty important we have a similar picture of what's going on (especially for the characters with some investment in hacking type stuff, like mine...)
I look upon the the total number of "takes" and I despair.
| QUOTE |
| 1) While the NPCG is totally unformed, the OPCG existed and was powerful. And about one half to one third of the NPCG, including its leader, are from OPCG. These "plankholders" will likely be central figures in the new gang, if only because they are already known and trusted by Legion. Thus, I think it is perfectly reasonable for us to begin talking strategy OOC now - we could be talking about how defense was handled by the OPCG. As we all know, this desperately needs fleshing out anyway - it is something that would be intimately familiar to some of us, and probably even passingly so to those hailing from the feeder gangs. Unfortunately, as touched on before, we currently got nada. That is no one's fault. It's just that with a dozen active posters, who (besides the designated leader, currently busy with RL) is going to step up and make those determinations? In typical forum fashion, no one wants to step on toes, and we get very little done. And what does get done is largely contradictory, as it lacks coordination. It is the nature of the forum beast. |
Strategy was one of the things you all (especially the OPCG members) were supposed to have been talking about.
So if you're waiting for my permission to start talking strategy as it relates to the OPCG, it was given about several hundred posts back. The only thing that is organic and should be handled IC is the NPCG. The OPCG i.e. Hammerpack stuff has already happened as of game start, so with respects to anything Hammerpack-related, any characters originally from the Hammerpack can know as much as you all can handle cranking out. I don't care if you write a playbook with every conceivable scenario under the sun which each of you has memorized prior to game start. Incidentally, for those who were part of feeder gangs, you will need to specify in your backgrounds when you joined Hammerpack to determine how much of the Hammerpack strategies you know.
The obvious caveat is only PCs who were part of the OPCG should be able to act on this knowledge in the NPCG. Characters from 'feeder gangs' may have a general idea of Hammerpack tactics gained from observation, street knowledge, heresay, a quick and dirty introduction, etc., but only ex-Hammerpack members should know that 'Omega Black Sky Fire 6' is code for 'Everyone turn and run like hell'.
| QUOTE |
| 2) If for no other reason than game balance, us players need to be cut a lot of slack when it comes to OOC planning. The OPFOR GM idea is freaking brilliant. It saves you, the UberGM, tons of work. It gives us players the chance to play against different tactical styles. It relieves the main GM from wondering whether or not he is being "unfairly tough" on the players. But in terms of team coordination, look at what we are up against - the other side will all be controlled by (and obedient to) a single planner at a time. Our side will be composed of a handful of individuals that (A) know each other intimately and spend all their time together IC, but (B) communicate a few times a week and have never met OOC. This extends to environment as well - the OPFOR GMs' view of the terrain and the players' view may BOTH differ in key ways from the Uber-GM's "true" view, but at least the OPFOR GMs will be envisioning and planning based on ONE unique view, while the player side will have as many slightly differing views of our environment as there are players, a huge tactical disadvantage. Thus, even if you allow us unlimited OOC "table-talk" we will never have a shadow of the "hive mind" coordination the opposition will enjoy. So there it is, my case for letting us start talking tactics NOW. (You might have said yes right away - but I am nothing if not loquacious.) In fact, I would be in favor of establishing a separate thread dedicated to discussion of (1) OPCG organization, roles, and tactics and (2) ideas on how we will will work together for survival once our characters have met IC. |
Go ahead and start planning and table talking as much as you want now. I don't mind if you do it once the game starts either, as long as your characters only act on what they know.
For example, it's ok to talk OOC and decide on a general plan in combat, but your characters will still need to communicate that plan to one another IC. I realize it's sometimes a thin line between what characters know and what players know, but in general, I'm not going to be overly anal about it, since as you pointed out, the PCs have in many cases been through countless scraps together and many of them will know each other quite well. If I think someone's crossing the line I'll let you know, but I'm not going to insist the only way you can discuss strategy and tactics is IC, because that would be ridiculous. Besides, table talking is a part of RP, and a necessary one, since as you pointed out, even if the players don't know each other well the characters do, and there needs to be some way to work that out.
Note that the GMs will not be unfair either. Yes we can act as a 'hive mind' but that doesn't mean we will. Miscommunication is a regular part of combat, and we'll have it happen on our end because it's certainly going to happen on your end. Running combat realistically means our guys have to act appropriately, and they're gangers, not super elite genetically bred uber-soldiers. That means miscommunications, screwups, stupid stuff, ego, and more will be part of their actions. Yes they are generally fairly competent and dangerous, but they'll be making mistakes and making boneheaded decisions at times too, because that's part of our job in portraying them realistically.
| QUOTE |
| I look upon the the total number of "takes" and I despair. |
But they're so much fun to read!
| QUOTE |
| @WR1 Question for you... considering the fact that player death is likely if not highly probable in this game.... Since we've all put blood, sweat and tears (some quite literally) into this to help get it off the ground, if our PC's die will we possibly have "first crack" to create a new character and jump back into the mix? biggrin.gif Yes, I am trying to come up with a backup plan if things go to shit and Konsaki and WoundedRonin decide that Bad Things are to happen to Nevada ;P |
If you die, you will automatically be accepted back into DITG once your concept is approved and Konsaki has approved your new character (assuming you haven't done anything grevious to warrant being kicked out, that is
). Obviously gangs always need new blood and there's always people who want in, so it won't be hard to insert your character back into the NPCG. Of course before the new PC is a full member of the gang they will have to go through the 'intiation ritual' and whatever other requirements to join you all come up with during the organic creation process.
I will be using an approximate version of LITS's reincarnation system. When you die you will carry over a certain percentage of any karma earned to the new PC. I will determine the percentage based on a multitude of factors, including but not limited to:
- Your roleplaying of the old PC
- Method of character death (i.e. dramatic or appropriate deaths due to good roleplaying are worth more)
- Bad luck vs. Stupidity (i.e. Did you die because someone rolled 12 successes with a hold out pistol or because you challenged the monofilament whip-wielding troll to a duel while wielding a steak knife and Blades skill of 1?)
- Posting quality and consistency
-How much I like you. Just seeing who's paying attention.
And so on.
Additionally, since rewards were a big part of the incentive for everyone to contribute all your fine work, and the work was still done by you even if your original PC is dead, I will grant rewards to the new PCs as well, since I don't believe you should be penalized reward-wise just because your character died.
The caveat to this is each time you make a new PC your rewards will decrease to a certain degree, determined by me in the same manner as karma reincarnation.
Simply put, everyone dies once in a while, and I'm not going to hammer you for that. If you go through 5 PCs in 3 RL months however, maybe you need to rethink how you've been playing and be a bit more careful while on the mean streets of Seattle.
That help everyone feel better?
I have a bit of background fiction that will make a nice vignette with a little sprucing up. There's an anonymous ganger in the story - does anyone want to be that ganger? If no, it can be one of the (many) fallen Pack.
<~~paying attention
*also paying attention*
OK I've been thinking about how to do the rewards and here's what we'll do.
I'm going to PM everyone their rewards, and you can add it to your sheet on the wiki yourself. When you get the reward PM from me, forward it to Konsaki so he knows what they are when he looks at your character.
Obviously if someone REALLY wants to they can reverse engineer your character to determine your rewards, but I hope no one here has THAT much time on their hands.
Shade's Journal - Grack and Bockscar's vignettes are up. Note that you can send me more than one vignette if you want to, because it helps flesh out your character and makes the journal that much cooler overall.
I'm going to PM everyone their rewards, and you can add it to your sheet on the wiki yourself. When you get the reward PM from me, forward it to Konsaki so he knows what they are when he looks at your character.
Obviously if someone REALLY wants to they can reverse engineer your character to determine your rewards, but I hope no one here has THAT much time on their hands.
Shade's Journal - Grack and Bockscar's vignettes are up. Note that you can send me more than one vignette if you want to, because it helps flesh out your character and makes the journal that much cooler overall.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.