Which one of these is limited to 4 at CharGen?

Per page SR5 page 94, availability 12 and device rating 6 are your limits. (Right column, last paragraph before the Cyberware and Bioware header. Yes, it says device rating, not item rating or rating.)

The best deck at chargen is the Sony CIY-720, DR 4, availability 12F. Incidentally, commlinks without hotsim cap at DR 6 (avail 12) or with hotsim at DR 4 (avail 8, +4F avail modifier, so 12F). (SR5 439)

'Ware grades at chargen is limited to standard and alpha (SR5 95), but their availability and item ratings are all over the map. Alpha has a +2 availability modifier on it. (SR5 451)

Does that help?

-Temperance

It helps, but the use of the word "rating" for quite a few different things lead to confusion.

So I *could* buy a rating-6 medkit at CharGen, but not a rating 5 Commlink, is that it?

The Transys Avalon (Availability 12) is DR6...

If I have a Corporate SIN, but the company fired me, why am I still paying taxes to it? If I have a national SIN, and no legit income, why am I paying taxes, and why aren't they auditing me and arresting me?

Yes, and? DR limit is 4 at CharGen, regardless of availability. My question was whether this only concerned Matrix devices..

Normally I'm all for "don't mention the WAR!", but increasing the range of ratings from 1-10 was one of the few good things from that book...

Agreed...

I assume the Essence loss from a critical glitch Artificing check (SR5, p. 307) is permanent? If so, that seems out of theme for other magical failures.

1) Some of the Cyberprograms for a deck note that they stack with other bonuses, which implies that all the other bonuses don't stack, but I didn't see anything that outright says they don't stack. For example: If I run both Stealth (+1 Sleaze) and Exploit (+2 Sleaze for Hack on the Fly), when I go to Hack on the Fly am I getting +2 (Exploit is better) or +3 (They combine?). Am I missing some sort of general bonus stacking rules somewhere in the book?

2) Does the Sneak program provide any protection against Track IC? It specifically keeps demiGOD from locating me if my OS get's too high, and it provides some bonuses to avoiding a Trace attempt by a person/similar, but what about Track IC?

3) While a Control Rig is needed to Jump into a drone, can anyone use a Rigger Command Console for "simple" remote control of drones? I imagine anyone using multiple drones would find it useful for coordinating and sharing Autosofts even if they can't rig the drone directly.

4) Running Silent and Matrix Perception. It looks like any device can Run Silent, requiring a Matrix Perception Tests to Locate. Let's say my decker is dealing with a ganger and wants to hack/brick the ganger's smartlinked gun. The ganger, not being a complete idiot, has put his gun in silent mode to avoid me hacking it before he can shoot me, and/or because he doesn't want the local cops to know he has it as he walks down the street. As I under stand it, the Ganger has no penalties for doing this, aside from maybe legal issues in a high security zone if he is caught with it? The gun doesn't take Matrix Actions, so the -2 penalty for running silent doesn't affect him: he can still get his matrix bonus +2 dice pool to shooting my decker right? Now my Decker can hack his gun but first he has to spot it. So he has to first make a Matrix Perception Test to find out how many hidden Icons are within 100m. Then he needs to actually pick (at random?) an icon and locate it with a second Matrix Perception Test. Unless the Ganger's gun is the only silent running device in the area, my decker has a crap shoot right? If that Ganger has 100 Silent Running RFID tags in his pocket for just this kind of thing ($100 at your local Stuffer-shack) for example? Or maybe not? The Matrix Perception Side Bar on page 235 notes that "If you know at least one feature of an icon running silent, you can spot the icon (Running Silent, below)." Does this mean that if I can see the object in Meat-space (IE: I know 2 things: the icon is for a gun and where it physically is) I can specifically attempt to find it's silent running Icon with a Matrix Perception Test, or does the pocket full of RFID chips keep me "guessing" for the hidden gun icon?

5) It looks like Cyber Eyes, Cyber Ears, and Datajacks can no longer be installed in a CyberLimb: Skull via capacity. Did I miss some note to the contrary somewhere, or is that how it is in 5th edition (at least until the 5th edition version of Augmentation comes along and tweaks things?)

Since icons have to reflect what device they represent you'd find the device right away. Unless the ganger has illegally modified the RFIDs to look like guns...I see the potential for endless fun with RFIDs and a Wrapper program.

No, it's not. I pointed this out upthread. This time, I have the direct book quote. Bolding/color mine for emphasis.


Commlinks are fine because the highest one at availability 12 is DR6:

Transys Avalon, DR 6, Availability 12, Cost: 5,000¥ (SR5, page 439)

DR4 is only the effective limit on decks due to the availability cap:

Sony CIY-720, DR 4, Ability Spread: 7 6 5 4 4, Availability 12R, Cost 345,000¥ (SR5, page 439)


So if you have a different rules citation than I do, I'd love to see it and say I'm wrong. But right now, I can't see the basis for your argument. As has been pointed out, "rating" and "device rating" are not the same thing.

-Temperance

According to the PDF in front of me, Max Availability at CharGen is 10.

Edit: Nvm, that was for Street Level play. So no common gangers with the best commlink, I guess.

According to the PDF I have, the Availability limit is 12. Where does it say 10?

If the devices are Running Silent (p 235), then you can't see them at all in the matrix unless you already have spotted them or have a Mark on them, which is where this whole question comes from. Sure, once I spot (Matrix Perception) the icon I'll be able to tell if it's a gun or a RFID decoy, but the rules say you need to make a Matrix Perception test to find out how many hidden icons there are in 100 meters, and then you need to randomly pick one (top of page 236) and make a Matrix Perception test against it's Logic+Sleaze (probably just logic for a gun or RFID) to actually spot it and see anything about it, like what the Icon is.

As I noted, the sidebar on 235 notes that "If you know at least one feature of an icon running silent you can spot the icon (Running Silent, below.)" which I think means that if I can see the object in meat space (IE: I see a gun, so I know generally where it is and that it's a gun) I "know at least one feature" of the icon, and should therefore be able to try and spot it's silent running icon (if it's got the wireless turned on) so I can skip the whole scan the area around me and pick a random icon thing.
Basically: does the sidebar note, which is oddly listed under things you can find out with a perception check, override the the text in chapter about randomly picking hidden icons?

An interesting option, but you need a Deck or Rigger Command Console to run cyberprograms, so this is actually somewhat limited in who can do this. According to page 221; " It's [commlink] got all of the necessary software already loaded, but unlike a cyberdeck it has no space for cyberprograms or other hacking tools." Page 269 notes that "Riggers can utilize a number of cyberprograms that deckers usually use. Programs purchased for use on an RCC cannot be used in a cyberdeck and vice versa." Wrapper is included as an option in that note. I have yet to find anything saying you need a control rig to opperate an RCC, and RCCs are cheaper than decks, so in theory you can buy a "Scratch-Built Junk" RCC for $1400 and then buy the Wrapper cyberprogram for $250, and then you can mess with all your icons as long as you leave the Junk running Wrapper. $1625 to conceal your gun's icon... or just run in silent mode for free?

I wouldn't say override, but essentially yes.

Mkay, if you can't see the icon, standards for iconography obviously don't matter


The RCC also allows commanding multiple drones without ever jumping in, so I'd guess that is intentional. The old captain's chair mode

You're right, I had a brain fart for a moment here.

It also reads that all matrix objects can be run silent. Does that include files? Or is that just for personas and devices?

The adept power Adrenaline Boost doesn't stack with anything, right?

Hosts, files, devices, and personas can all run silent.

technically it doesn't say so. However, Improved Reflexes doesn't stack with anything else.

Quick question about the RCC:



How is that different from a standard "Control Device":



Aside from the fact that the RCC needs slaving while Control Device requires ownership?


It really feels like rules are a bit all over the place :/

Question: Can I even roll a Test if I don't have the needed Attribute?

If you missing the Skill you can default (if possible), but as far as I know you cannot roll a test where your missing the required Attribute.

That means that running silent is more or less useless unless you have a Deck, because you need Sleaze Attribute or the Test.

cya
Tycho

I'd say since there is no test to start running silent, then yes you can indeed run silent on anything (even without a Sleeze attribute), however to defend against a perception test you would only have your Intuition to stay silent.

which means that I can turn my Devices on Running Silent, but everybody will see right throu it, because I only have 1 Stat and everybody else has 2 + Bonus Dice. Only a Deck can really be hidden, because they have a Sleaze Value.

Essentially yes, but people have to take the time and the action to spot your silent running things. It's also where those things like the TM's matrix illusions come in handy for hiding the team's gear

How much do Autosofts cost?

Okay, same old:

How do Shock Gloves work in SR5? Do they do STR S damage as you punsh someone in the face with your fist and additionally go for 8 S electricity damage? Or is it just 8 S and thats it regardless of whether you have STR 1 or 9?

Thanks.

They have a damage code of 8S(e) - not Str+8S(e).

I understand that, but (just as a metaphor) if i hold an grenade in my hand that detonates just in that bare moment i use the gloves it will stil be 8S (e)?

There is no link to the STR of the user. I guess it would be ok if you just touch your target as an attack. But there clearly is a difference between touching and punshing your target in the face that is not considered by the damage code of the glove.

An other way of thinking of it would be "what does happen when someone punshes you with an unloaded glove? Will it be 0S or is this the point when your STR comes in? And if yes, why not with an charged glove?

So again, has someone an idea how to handle this?

This discussion is going on in another forum so it is a topic of interest.

The way they wrote it up they sort of assume you are going for one or the other and didn't really consider what would happen if you try to combine the two. If it was a normal human punching I would just say the electrical damage pretty much overrides the actual punch damage so just like stacking armor only counts the highest, you count the higher damage.

But this breaks down when you add bone lacing or other augments /metatypes and suddenly you are dealing significantly more damage and the shock glove becomes the add on.

Having the two damages together might make sense, but it would be pretty powerful.

Following this idea of damages stacking just imagine a Troll with bone lacing wearing Shock gloves combining crushing physical blows with full electrical shock damage and special effects on top as he beats you into a bloody and sparking pulp.

mmmmmmmmm...

Sorry.

Was in my happy place.

As it is written it is a no unless someone from above clarifies this otherwise.

You could still do this, but consider anything the players get to do can also be done to them and stacking physical attacks with energy attacks on top will be very nasty.


Sort of the same argument for S&S, I am pretty certain I could make a steel jacketed solid capacitor that could punch a fair sized hole into a body and still deliver a nasty shock to boot, but that would just be adding insult to injury, no pun intended.

So the devs wrote it that S&S are just gel like rounds or taser darts so there was no real damage from the impact itself, just the zap.

That would actually count as two attacks, is part of the issue - so if you could get a GM to allow it, it would still consume a free action and force you to split your dice pool.

in SR4A they (the Devs) tried very hard to prevent Double Damage from different sources
(hence no poisened vibro-Katana of electrical Schock and no Adept Elemental Aura on Top of it)
And my guess is that its the same default in SR5 now

with a default Dance
Medicineman

Do spirits still assume ITNW?

well everybody assumes that

with a funny Dance
Medicineman

Yes, but the way it works is different - Hardened Armour protects absolutely against damage up to its rating modified by AP, and past that provides automatic hits on the damage resistance equal to half its rating modified by AP.

Speaking of Hardened Armor, something I always wondered and probably also did wrong in previous editions is if increasing the armor through for example the armor spell also increases the hardened part or just the resist pool.
At least they now specifically mention that HA works against the modified DV of the whole attack as you could read the 4E rule as only being opposed by weapon & ammo statistics (that would at least have made the Drake armor useful)

Of course, the automatic hits thing does make lower HA values legitimately useful.

Which was largely the point -- making it not such an "all or nothing" affair.

Yeah, we talked about it a lot for SR4, so one of the first things I checked in the new book was, 'did they make it so the armor curve doesn't go from safe, safe, safe, DEAD?' Have to do some testing to convince myself though.

I really must recreate my juggernaut example, since I can't find the damn original. Something else to do in my copious unstructured free time.

Some rigger related questions:

If I'm jumped into an Ares Duelist, do I really use Gunnery to attack with those swords?

Once a hacker has marks on your RCC, is the only defense to reboot it? I thought about getting an Agent to run on my RCC and Erase Mark for me, but that's an Attack action (GOD doesn't like it when you kick hackers off your system!).

Can I slave my crappy RCC to my Transys Avalon to get Data Processing 6 & Firewall 6 for all my drones and for me while I'm jumped in?

In order:

That seems to be the case.

That's the easiest way. Or get a friendly hacker to erase the mark. And GOD doesn't like it when you frag around with marks (the overwhelming majority of which are legit); hackers are just taking advantage of them.

No, the transfer of ratings only applies to defense and only to the slave. If your drones are slaved to your RCC, they can use your RCC's ratings. If they're slaved to your commlink, they can use your commlink's ratings.

it's worth noting that you can employ an agent to remove marks and just reboot every time it approaches 40 OS.

that said, you'd need to invest in an actual cyberdeck, since with a limit of 0 you won't be removing much of anything.

(although i suppose you *could* argue that running decryption gives you an attack rating of 1, that's... questionable at best. i don't get the impression those programs were intended to create attributes).

There is no rule for that. It i pritty much forward why. Simply because to really simulate it, would be kind of a pain in the ass.
Now, really hitting someone is harder than just touching them. So basically you would need one melee touch attack and an other regular attack. Thats just left out.
So in general I would say you could go:
Simply shocking: attack dice pool +2.
Hitting and shocking: normal attack dice pool. Do damage for punching(I would not add any damage augmentation because of the glove so) for regular punching damage and electrical damage. Both resisted speratly.

Thanks for the reply! OK, let me see if I understand it then.

If my rigger connects directly to a vehicle using the data cable that comes with his control rig, he can jump in without using a commlink or RCC. In that case, his Data Processing, used to determine his Initiative, is equal to the Device Rating of the vehicle (usually 2 according to the table on page 233). He uses max(Willpower, vehicle's Device Rating) + Firewall (which is equal to the vehicle's Device Rating) to resist matrix damage, but as long as he doesn't need to communicate with anyone else, he can shut his wireless off and be immune to matrix damage anyway (unless a hacker jumps onto his vehicle and hacks in with a physical connection, in which case, shame on the rigger).

If he connects his control rig's data cable to his commlink or RCC, and then another cable from the commlink to the vehicle, he uses the commlink's Data Processing instead of the vehicle's Device Rating to determine his Initiative, and he uses max(Willpower, commlink's Device Rating) + commlink's Firewall to resist matrix damage (gaining the same immunity as above if wireless is off). Since the connection is direct, it is not subject to Noise. The vehicle ceases to exists as a device while he's jumped in.

If he jumps into a drone through the Matrix, what I wrote in the previous paragraph regarding Initiative and matrix damage remains true for any drone I jump into, only I'm subject to Noise possibly dumping me out, and also vulnerable to hackers, since the only way I can jump into a drone remotely is through the Matrix.

Is it the case that there can be only 1 master device in a PAN? I think it must be, otherwise I could slave my drone to that crappy RCC mentioned in my original question, then slave the RCC to my commlink (which would be the overall Master of my PAN) to gain the benefit of the commlink's better Data Processing and Firewall while retaining the RCC's Noise Reduction, Sharing, and cyberprograms.