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ShadowDragon8685
I do not have a copy of SR5 yet. However, someone on Dumpshock was kind enough to link to This post on Shadowrun4.com wherein KarmaInferno discloses all the horribleness in its terrible glory.

Here is that list in its unadulterated state of poo, by the way. I've omitted the "No wireless bonus" entries, which is ironic as many of them were things that bloody well could have done with wireless boni. (Seriously, dafuq were they smoking? Your goddamned cyberblades need internet access to snap out, but your commlink, something which is by design intended to handle large amounts of data, can't get a boost by cloud computing? Come on guys, there are glaucoma patients and traumatized war veterans who desperately need whatever it is you smoked!)

[ Spoiler ]


Without having access to an SR5 book, I am going to say that, sight-unseen, here is how I would be houseruling things.

1: Everything that gets implanted in your body gets hardwired to your brain, for better or for worse, unless it's something with a nefarious purpose that wasn't put there by you, such as the cranial bomb that Renraku so thoughtfully fitted you with as a farewell present after your stint in their corporate prison.

2: Connectivity works exactly as it worked in SR4. You CAN wirelessly connect the things you're wearing, but if you're more security-conscious than that, you can fit them with skinlinks or connect them via fiber-optic cable. Esoteric connections (such as laser and skinlink) still work and exist as they always did.

The "Wireless Boni" (seen above) get adjusted as follows:

Many things have been tagged with simpler boilerplate.
PAN means that it works in the listed "wireless bonus" manner if it is connected to your PAN by any means, but does not need Matrix access to function. (IE, it will still work IN A CAVE, with a BOX OF SCRAPS. As long as your PAN is functioning.) You can command it by any means at your disposal for manipulating your PAN, including free, if you have a direct neural link of some sort or another, such as an implanted commlink/deck or an implanted datajack connected by fiber-optic. It CAN be done wirelessly, sure.
INDUCTION CHARGE is an interesting case. Things which charge by induction will always do so, they don't have to broadcast their location to the Matrix. If the induction power is available, it is available passively, and the devices can recharge. And even if some place has instituted a system where the induction charge needs a device to say "Hey, I'm waiting for a charge here, fill me up," it may have to broadcast its location to the charger, but it still does NOT have to listen to anything the Matrix is saying.
CYBER means that it's implanted and functions as though it were always connected to your PAN, because it's been WIRED INTO YOUR SKULL!
If it has any other text, then it was interesting enough to warrant me thinking about it and dedicating my thoughts to text. Now those are indented, too!



[ Spoiler ]



So, there you have it. Some houserules, probably ready to go out of the box for anyone familiar enough with SR4 to have a working understanding of the SR4 Matrix topography (IE, you know what mutual signal range is and can extrapolate from that to determine if two devices can wirelessly interact through the matrix mesh,) and delivered by someone who is furious with the idea that Sammies needed a nerf or that hackers needed to be able to brick someone's cybereyes in the middle of a firefight.


[e]And now the nested lists actually work. smile.gif
[e][e]And now with additional indentations on the things with notes instead of tags.
RHat
So I take it you're just throwing out the distributed computing explanation entirely? I won't argue that it explains everything (as it clearly doesn't, and I'm pretty sure it was never supposed to), but it VERY MUCH explains the bonus of, for example, Vision Enhancement far better than a simple PAN connection does. And helps demonstrate just how powerful the Matrix actually is.
ShadowDragon8685
RHat: The problem is that distributed computing only works (a) when you have access to distributed computing, and (b) it only works for processes which do not need to happen RIGHT FUCKING THIS FUCKING GODDAMN FUCKING INSTA - too late.

The literal only way that distributed computing could work for something like your vision enhancement is if it is (a) analyzing a recording ex post facto, or (b) your vision enhancement features quantum fucking entangled faster-than-light communications.

Shadowrun tech is advanced, but it's not Mass Effect tech, and even in Mass Effect, quantum-entangled communications were expensive and rare ([e]Also, probably too bulky to fit in your cyber.). Quantum entanglement also requires dedicated quantum-entangled quantum bits, so you're going to have to set up your own receiver and nexus to do your real-time data crunching for you.

On the other hand, distributed computing would be great to brute-force your way through extended tests; decrypting stuff, for instance, or social interaction if you had a Deus Ex Human Revolution style CASIE aug.
RHat
QUOTE (ShadowDragon8685 @ Jun 27 2013, 10:19 PM) *
RHat: The problem is that distributed computing only works (a) when you have access to distributed computing, and (b) it only works for processes which do not need to happen RIGHT FUCKING THIS FUCKING GODDAMN FUCKING INSTA - too late.

The literal only way that distributed computing could work for something like your vision enhancement is if it is (a) analyzing a recording ex post facto, or (b) your vision enhancement features quantum fucking entangled faster-than-light communications.

Shadowrun tech is advanced, but it's not Mass Effect tech, and even in Mass Effect, quantum-entangled communications were expensive and rare. Quantum entanglement also requires dedicated quantum-entangled quantum bits, so you're going to have to set up your own receiver and nexus to do your real-time data crunching for you.

On the other hand, distributed computing would be great to brute-force your way through extended tests; decrypting stuff, for instance, or social interaction if you had a Deus Ex Human Revolution style CASIE aug.


Actually, local area connections would be plenty fast enough based on the speeds in SR4 - where the Matrix was faster than people, and could be faster than the fastest Street Sam; hackers/rigger/'mancers were the only ones who could ever see 5 passes in SR4, after all. Keep in mind that in this version of distributed computing, it's threads thrown to nearby devices or something of the sort, which RADICALLY reduces the amount of time it would take and makes live-time processing of algorithms that could not be done in live-time on your comm-link hypothetically possible.

And, of course, it has nothing at all to do with the connection speed being faster - rather, the connection speed is simply fast enough as to cease to be a bottleneck.
Not of this World
No, I'd say 70% of this is simply going away. Not going bother with complicated home rules.

Forearm snap blades have been a free action forever for my SR3 group which never made the jump to ridiculous wifi world. Anything that loses functionality from my SR3 game is simply getting a single stroke of the pen in the book to make it go away without undue complication.
ShadowDragon8685
Not of this World: Thanks, feel free to keep your version ludditism to yourself.

It's not complicated. You just think it is because you never went to SR4, which is not "ridiculous wifi world."
KarmaInferno
QUOTE (ShadowDragon8685 @ Jun 28 2013, 12:08 AM) *
I do not have a copy of SR5 yet. However, someone on Dumpshock was kind enough to link to This post on Shadowrun4.com wherein KarmaInferno discloses all the horribleness in its terrible glory.

I strongly suspect the folks at Catalyst might be a wee bit annoyed at me by this point.

smile.gif




-k
Critias
QUOTE (KarmaInferno @ Jun 27 2013, 10:32 PM) *
I strongly suspect the folks at Catalyst might be a wee bit annoyed at me by this point.

Why would we be? At least you've looked at the book before criticizing it. It's a refreshing breath of fresh air, in my opinion. rotfl.gif
Tzeentch
Some of these online-enabled bonuses are funny and absurd. How does cloud computing make your snap blades deploy faster? The recharge stuff doesn't make any sense to me, either.

Others are "Yeah, ok, over-complicated and gamey but I can see it."

I doubt this experiment to push players to be decker targets will work, but it's not quite the nuisance I would have thought.
Epicedion
Several things:

1) "Power by induction" online bonuses granting additional risk makes sense, as presumably a hacker would be able to tap into whatever the device is drawing power from (which appears to be the ambient Matrix) and overload it. Those things apparently go into "receiving active signal" mode, so sending some extra watts down the feed seems very possible considering the technology involved. Also, the device itself would have to send out some sort of signal to let everything around it know to focus some power on it.

2) If something is connecting to a PAN, it's vulnerable via the Matrix. It may be 'hidden' or hard to find or whatever, but it's still engaging an active signal. For non-cyberware devices like the Forearm Snap Blades, there is no DNI involved because there's no skinlink anymore, and you're not plugging your monowhip into your brain. Every spot where you say "passively listen for data" or any such thing means that your device has an open channel that can be infiltrated. No one ever said attacks had to come from a bi-directional connection.

3) The devices that give +1 while online seems to be replacing the idea of the "if you're using AR for such and such, you get a bonus" from SR4. Stuff like a Trauma Patch can either be applied correctly with a bit of luck (roll) or link up to the Matrix, report the exact status of a wound, and receive instructions for exactly how to self-apply. Remember that 'data' in the case of a device isn't a thumb drive worth of data. When the Autopicker synchs up it's accessing a relational database of billions of possible examples and using computational power it doesn't have onboard to churn through the relevant ones. It's saying to its sources in the Matrix "hey I've got this problem" and the Matrix provides an answer, near-instantaneously.

4) Apparently there's a lot of extra data that you can get from just sniffing the Matrix locally. The spatial recognizer can read a local Matrix map and adjust its output accordingly. The visual enhancer can 'see' Matrix information and interpret that into usable visual data (there's a low-data-density region in the local Matrix field that 90% corresponds to such and such so highlight it)

5) If the only thing you have against certain things is the 'ping' involved, the Matrix appears to have exceptionally low latency all of the time. Otherwise people wouldn't project their brains over it.

6) Cyberware working together over wireless makes sense. When you get Wired Reflexes and a Reaction Enhancer, you don't get a big processor installed to make them talk to each other. Ditto for most other cyberware (how should an air tank let you know its remaining air level? Electric shocks?). You don't get a piece installed and then have it wired to your cyberears and then to your cybereyes all directly, and presuming that these things should somehow "just link up" is a bigger handwave than anything I've ever seen suggested here.
Udoshi
QUOTE (Critias @ Jun 27 2013, 09:40 PM) *
Why would we be? At least you've looked at the book before criticizing it. It's a refreshing breath of fresh air, in my opinion. rotfl.gif


What are the odds we're going to see a Shadowrun 5th: 2070's campaign book?
You know, like the previous edition's 2050's book.

One that actually addresses concerns and fixes issues with the 'new' system?
Tzeentch
1. A signal that strong would indicate a better than 100 meter range. It would also be a cancer risk.
2. I don't see how you can spin Device-->Matrix cloud-->Device as more efficient that a direct connect. Especially since you already have a direct connect to trigger the item in question.
3. Yup, this stuff can make sense.
4. This presumes that all of your data is automatically geocoded and for some reason also geocached in the local (physical) network. That should set off alarm bells for criminal scum like shadowrunners.
5. True. When they did try to account for signal lag it was not well done (i.e. the old satcom decking rules).
6. As opposed to just skipping all this Matrix middleman and connecting over a bodyLAN using whatever interfaces you have already? And really, you can't think of a way to have your device inform you of issues that don't involve the Matrix? Come on now.

I admit, I did outright laugh at the hydraulic jack bonus. I can't wait to see what other shenanigans are in the cybernetics sourcebook.

Critias
QUOTE (Udoshi @ Jun 28 2013, 12:24 AM) *
What are the odds we're going to see a Shadowrun 5th: 2070's campaign book?
You know, like the previous edition's 2050's book.

One that actually addresses concerns and fixes issues with the 'new' system?

Likely to no one's surprise, no, we've not planned a book to "address concerns and fix issues," just yet, with the system that's not even been released.
Epicedion
QUOTE (Tzeentch @ Jun 28 2013, 01:26 AM) *
1. A signal that strong would indicate a better than 100 meter range. It would also be a cancer risk.


No, you just ask the 10,000 devices in the area to focus a little bit at your direct location. The intersection of those little tiny bits all in the right spot on your device (it's having to broadcast its location for this level of precision, of course) would provide constructive interference at a pinpoint location.

QUOTE
2. I don't see how you can spin Device-->Matrix cloud-->Device as more efficient that a direct connect. Especially since you already have a direct connect to trigger the item in question.


What direct connect? We're talking about devices that aren't wired together. Forearm Snap Blades (et al) you either flick your arms out (simple action) or control microactuators via whatever you're linking to your brain. There's no direct connection from brain to blades, though, it has to go through something.

QUOTE
4. This presumes that all of your data is automatically geocoded and for some reason also geocached in the local (physical) network. That should set off alarm bells for criminal scum like shadowrunners.


I'm not talking about actual maps, I'm talking about an active read of the condition of the local Matrix, which exists as electromagnetic waves traveling all around and through everything.

QUOTE
6. As opposed to just skipping all this Matrix middleman and connecting over a bodyLAN using whatever interfaces you have already? And really, you can't think of a way to have your device inform you of issues that don't involve the Matrix? Come on now.

I admit, I did outright laugh at the hydraulic jack bonus. I can't wait to see what other shenanigans are in the cybernetics sourcebook.


What's a "bodyLAN"? If the question is "what activation interfaces do these devices really have anyway?" that's a great question.

What way does a device have of informing you? Is everything hardline wired to the visual cortex? And then wired to each other so that they don't provide conflicting, overlapping, overloading, or otherwise confusing information?
Tzeentch
QUOTE (Epicedion @ Jun 28 2013, 06:39 AM) *
No, you just ask the 10,000 devices in the area to focus a little bit at your direct location. The intersection of those little tiny bits all in the right spot on your device (it's having to broadcast its location for this level of precision, of course) would provide constructive interference at a pinpoint location.

That is Rube-Goldberg level of over-engineering. I still don't think that could work (actually, what you describe sounds like it could be weaponized), but passive recharging is pretty low on my list of things to get worked up about in these rules smile.gif
QUOTE
What direct connect? We're talking about devices that aren't wired together. Forearm Snap Blades (et al) you either flick your arms out (simple action) or control microactuators via whatever you're linking to your brain. There's no direct connection from brain to blades, though, it has to go through something.

Even if it's totally manual and you lock and unlock by flexing muscles how the heck is the Matrix speeding up deployment. Prediction? Using ephemeral Matrix energies to supercharge the ejection pistons?

You seem really wedded to this concept for some reason, and aspects of it are a really good idea. But some of these implementations are ... half baked to say the least.
QUOTE
I'm not talking about actual maps, I'm talking about an active read of the condition of the local Matrix, which exists as electromagnetic waves traveling all around and through everything.

We also have technomancers, so I'll concede this can somehow provide information of note. You're basically just packet sniffing though, I am a bit unsure what information you could derive from waveform analysis itself.
QUOTE
What way does a device have of informing you? Is everything hardline wired to the visual cortex? And then wired to each other so that they don't provide conflicting, overlapping, overloading, or otherwise confusing information?

.. Ok you made me laugh even though I know you are serious for some reason. It will use whatever display or auditory mechanism the Matrix-enabled part of this Rube Goldberg exercise in game design does. You know, except skipping the whole going out to the cloud to do magic and then coming back to tell you the same thing. How do you think devices communicate to the user now (IRL and in Shadowrun 4e)? Do you need a Matrix connection to even have a HUD, display panel, or speakers? And bodyLANs are not some strange new term I just created. It's what a SR4e PAN is.
phlapjack77
SR4A has this to say about DNI:
"In addition to wireless functionality, most cyberware devices are equipped with a direct neural interface (DNI) that allows the user to mentally activate and control their functions. They can also be linked to other cyberware implants."

Augmentation:
"Unless otherwise stated, cyberware that is capable of being activated or deactivated can be done so with a mental impulse. This is because the cyberware has been connected to the user’s nervous system, so it can be used in the same way the user would move a finger or flex a muscle."

Apparently skinlink has gone away, but has DNI been radically altered in SR5? If not, it seems that most of the cyberwear "online" bonuses are pretty poorly thought out.

Someone in another thread pointed out that a lot of the gear bonuses would make a lot more sense if the normal/connected bonuses were reversed. For instance, the smartgun should make everyone a better shot (bonus to DP), but if the smartgun were online it could truly aid those shots that need extra data to get every last bit of use out of the PC's skill (bonus to limit)
Makki
QUOTE (Epicedion @ Jun 28 2013, 07:13 AM) *
there is no DNI involved because there's no skinlink anymore,


The first plot I'll run in SR5 is the re-discovery of the Skinlink technology. The team will unveil a megacon conspiracy that tried to make every device wireless for better tracking citizens.
Epicedion
QUOTE (Tzeentch @ Jun 28 2013, 02:01 AM) *
That is Rube-Goldberg level of over-engineering. I still don't think that could work (actually, what you describe sounds like it could be weaponized), but passive recharging is pretty low on my list of things to get worked up about in these rules smile.gif


It could work. You can light a lightbulb from across the room without frying everything in the intervening space -- it's just remarkably inefficient right now. It could also probably be weaponized, but the inherent inefficiency would make other things easier and cheaper. For recharging a device, we're talking about a few volts and a few microamps over time, not exactly remotely tazing it.

QUOTE
Even if it's totally manual and you lock and unlock by flexing muscles how the heck is the Matrix speeding up deployment. Prediction? Using ephemeral Matrix energies to supercharge the ejection pistons?


I'm saying it's totally manual, or assisted-manual (still have to perform a specific physical action to set it off). Or you have 'trodes or what-have-you and think 'BLADES' really hard and your commlink reads that and activates the blades automatically via a wireless signal way faster than your brain can move your arms. Hence taking a simple action and making it a free one. Again, there's no direct line to your arm blades because there's no more skinlink. It's either got to all be wireless, or your glasses, earbuds, gun, monowhip, arm blades, chemseal, micro-transceiver, holster, clothes, watch, survival knife, trauma patch, lockpicks, and ponytail holder all have to be physically wired to your commlink, which just sounds lovely.

QUOTE
We also have technomancers, so I'll concede this can somehow provide information of note. You're basically just packet sniffing though, I am a bit unsure what information you could derive from waveform analysis itself.


It's science fiction. If you knew how it could actually work you'd be a billionaire.

QUOTE
.. Ok you made me laugh even though I know you are serious for some reason. It will use whatever display or auditory mechanism the Matrix-enabled part of this Rube Goldberg exercise in game design does. You know, except skipping the whole going out to the cloud to do magic and then coming back to tell you the same thing. How do you think devices communicate to the user now (IRL and in Shadowrun 4e)? Do you need a Matrix connection to even have a HUD, display panel, or speakers? And bodyLANs are not some strange new term I just created. It's what a SR4e PAN is.


Visually it's either got to broadcast to a screen (including glasses, monocles, etc), broadcast to a cybereye (which sort of works like a screen in that way), broadcast to a device that can stimulate the visual cortex ('trodes), or be wired directly to the visual cortex. Audio takes similar channels.

Otherwise it's got to create some sort of spooky 'extra sense'.

What I'm saying is that getting all of your internal devices to talk to each other even in the most basic ways, for example so that they don't all project their information in the exact same spot of your vision, has got to require some processing power somewhere. Somewhere, there's got to be a computer that tells everything what to do. This is why in SR3 you needed cybereyes with image and display links to access internal data from sources like datajacks and headware memory without having to wire yourself up to a screen.
Epicedion
QUOTE (phlapjack77 @ Jun 28 2013, 02:13 AM) *
SR4A has this to say about DNI:
"In addition to wireless functionality, most cyberware devices are equipped with a direct neural interface (DNI) that allows the user to mentally activate and control their functions. They can also be linked to other cyberware implants."

Augmentation:
"Unless otherwise stated, cyberware that is capable of being activated or deactivated can be done so with a mental impulse. This is because the cyberware has been connected to the user’s nervous system, so it can be used in the same way the user would move a finger or flex a muscle."

Apparently skinlink has gone away, but has DNI been radically altered in SR5? If not, it seems that most of the cyberwear "online" bonuses are pretty poorly thought out.

Someone in another thread pointed out that a lot of the gear bonuses would make a lot more sense if the normal/connected bonuses were reversed. For instance, the smartgun should make everyone a better shot (bonus to DP), but if the smartgun were online it could truly aid those shots that need extra data to get every last bit of use out of the PC's skill (bonus to limit)


I'd totally buy reversing the smartlink bonuses in that way.

DNI turning things on and off is one thing, but DNI providing a route for understandable and specific data (like projecting it on your field of vision) seems a little much. Again, SR3 required you to either have cybereyes with display and image links to get the same sort of data, or plug a screen into your brain and read it with your regular eyes. SR4 handwaved too much with respect to how these neural interfaces worked, presumably because they wanted more shiny floaty AR windows everywhere.

QUOTE (Makki @ Jun 28 2013, 02:18 AM) *
The first plot I'll run in SR5 is the re-discovery of the Skinlink technology. The team will unveil a megacon conspiracy that tried to make every device wireless for better tracking citizens.


Why? Skinlink is kind of daft for the setting. You might as well introduce tightbeam microwave transmitters from your brain to your secret underground computer complex.
hermit
Should I decide to houserule SR5 into working for me and my group, Skinlink as a device mod that gets you WiFi Boni without WiFi for [DR] items will be the first to go in (among other things, that brings choice into this system). Taking SkinLink out entirely seems very heavy handed and unnecessarily creates canon discontinuity for the sake of forcing a "choice" down the players' throats. Yeah, everything has a price, but CGL apparently never thought that there is a third choice, always: just don't bother with it and walk away.

What really annoys me is that without WiFi Boni, you only get Limit Boni, ever, Dicepool boni are only if you bend over for being hacked. Unfortunatly, as discussed in another threrad, without an appropriate DP, a Limit bonus is useless. It could just as well give no Boni at all for most cases. That is heavy-handed, it is taking away functionality (used to give relevant bonus, now only gives relevant bonus when hackable), and it feels like a rip-off. And since this is everywhere (with the exception of Skillwires), this seems to be the core mechanism CGL wants to force hackability on players. Another obvious choice is to switch Limit and Dicepool boni. Otherwise, it's not a Bonus, it's taking away viable functions gear had for something characters with attribute+skill basic DP will not need.

QUOTE
Your goddamned cyberblades need internet access to snap out, but your commlink, something which is by design intended to handle large amounts of data, can't get a boost by cloud computing?

Wireless Boni don't seem to be intended to boost devices that should, by logic, profit from it. It is a gamey mechanism to make cyberware hacking a "good choice" by making everything else a bad choice, even if this screws with established canon, plausibility, and logic. A terrible waste of an opportunity to create something cool if I ever saw one.
Epicedion
QUOTE (hermit @ Jun 28 2013, 02:56 AM) *
Should I decide to houserule SR5 into working for me and my group, Skinlink as a device mod that gets you WiFi Boni without WiFi for [DR] items will be the first to go in (among other things, that brings choice into this system). Taking SkinLink out entirely seems very heavy handed and unnecessarily creates canon discontinuity for the sake of forcing a "choice" down the players' throats. Yeah, everything has a price, but CGL apparently never thought that there is a third choice, always: just don't bother with it and walk away.


Except that skinlink was a terrible idea to introduce in the first place, because it was just a simple checkbox: Are you an idiot? Yes/No.

QUOTE
What really annoys me is that without WiFi Boni, you only get Limit Boni, ever, Dicepool boni are only if you bend over for being hacked. Unfortunatly, as discussed in another threrad, without an appropriate DP, a Limit bonus is useless. It could just as well give no Boni at all for most cases. That is heavy-handed, it is taking away functionality (used to give relevant bonus, now only gives relevant bonus when hackable), and it feels like a rip-off. And since this is everywhere (with the exception of Skillwires), this seems to be the core mechanism CGL wants to force hackability on players. Another obvious choice is to switch Limit and Dicepool boni.


"Bend over" and "rip-off" and "force down throats" and so forth is very reactionary language. There's the possibility of consequences, so everything's an instant worst-case scenario.
hermit
QUOTE
"Bend over" and "rip-off" and "force down throats" and so forth is very reactionary language. There's the possibility of consequences, so everything's an instant worst-case scenario.

Do corps have security deckers, yes/no? If yes, every corp b&e is a worst case scenario by default. Running silent is rather ineffective.

QUOTE
Except that skinlink was a terrible idea to introduce in the first place, because it was just a simple checkbox: Are you an idiot? Yes/No.

Terrible legacy also is legacy, and a nerf is better than declaring something Lostech because of gameyness. Fluff are rules too, and generating dissonance in a coherent world's background is never a good idea. It would also have been better to make Dikote a bladed-weapons only upgrade, because there it actually was one of the few viable mods that made a bladed weapon upgradable.
phlapjack77
QUOTE (Epicedion @ Jun 28 2013, 02:46 PM) *
DNI turning things on and off is one thing, but DNI providing a route for understandable and specific data (like projecting it on your field of vision) seems a little much. Again, SR3 required you to either have cybereyes with display and image links to get the same sort of data, or plug a screen into your brain and read it with your regular eyes. SR4 handwaved too much with respect to how these neural interfaces worked, presumably because they wanted more shiny floaty AR windows everywhere.

I agree - exactly what DNI could and couldn't do was always a little unclear to me. I would have appreciated more effort in spelling that out in something like Augmentation. How much control did a character have over things like cyberware with DNI and gear with skinlink, especially if the character had no commlink to coordinate things.

QUOTE (Makki @ Jun 28 2013, 02:18 PM) *
The first plot I'll run in SR5 is the re-discovery of the Skinlink technology. The team will unveil a megacon conspiracy that tried to make every device wireless for better tracking citizens.
Skinlink going away doesn't bother me so much - I mean, I think it shouldn't have TOTALLY gone away, but it did seem a little too magical and ubiquitous, like dikote of previous versions. Maybe cut back on it's effectiveness somehow, like if a PC uses skinlink they're not considered "online", but the skinlink creates a "field" that can be sniffed and hacked anyway (like SR4 hidden mode?). Sort of a middle ground between no-hackability (DNI) and the "hey everybody I leave a datatrail a mile wide everywhere I go!" phenomenon of always being online.
Tzeentch
QUOTE (Epicedion @ Jun 28 2013, 08:11 AM) *
Except that skinlink was a terrible idea to introduce in the first place, because it was just a simple checkbox: Are you an idiot? Yes/No.

Skinlinks effectively existed in Shadowrun first edition as part of the smartgun link system (SR1, p. 128). But it wasn't until the induction datajack (Man & Machine, p. 21) that they could be used for general I/O. This wasn't something anyone cared about until that little box in SR4, p. 224 and it's "Evil GM cackle" threatened player agency - and then said players wisely opted out of the brave wireless world.

I think this cloud enhanced stuff is a really interesting idea. Not too keen on the initial implementation and its transparent goal so that they get back to "Evil GM cackles" as he bricks your gear.
hermit
QUOTE
I think this cloud enhanced stuff is a really interesting idea. Not too keen on the initial implementation and its transparent goal so that they get back to "Evil GM cackles" as he bricks your gear.

Same here. If they weren't so clearly intended that you only get something worthwhile out of much of your gear while being live on the Matrix, this would be an interesting mechanic to make going open an option. As is, it seems designed to force you into universal hackability and basically check your character's viability as a self-sufficient PC at the door.
Udoshi
QUOTE (Critias @ Jun 27 2013, 10:29 PM) *
Likely to no one's surprise, no, we've not planned a book to "address concerns and fix issues," just yet, with the system that's not even been released.


I thought it WAS released, what with gencon books being sold?

Well, in that case, the thought remains: are you planning on revising the system before release?
Sendaz
QUOTE (Epicedion @ Jun 28 2013, 12:13 AM) *
Several things:

1) "Power by induction" online bonuses granting additional risk makes sense, as presumably a hacker would be able to tap into whatever the device is drawing power from (which appears to be the ambient Matrix) and overload it. Those things apparently go into "receiving active signal" mode, so sending some extra watts down the feed seems very possible considering the technology involved. Also, the device itself would have to send out some sort of signal to let everything around it know to focus some power on it.

Good to see Dr. Tesla is alive and well.....

I will be curious to see the actual recharge rate via induction versus plugging it in. Obviously it will be alot slower, but will the number of other devices around it affect this recharge rate?

Can a decker hack this and potentially zap/disable it by overloading the power feed? Personally I doubt you can pull that much juice from the air quite so easily to directly damage the device but it could certainly be shut down via the hack or cause the item to discharge and drain itself, but if overload is possible I wonder if the writers have considered the implications of the truly devious misusing of same.

ShadowDragon8685
QUOTE (Makki @ Jun 28 2013, 01:18 AM) *
The first plot I'll run in SR5 is the re-discovery of the Skinlink technology. The team will unveil a megacon conspiracy that tried to make every device wireless for better tracking citizens.


The rediscovery of skinlink technology happens on January 3rd, 2076, when a team of Runners who have just had all of their gear and 'ware forcibly removed and replaced with brand-new, 1984-OK corpware online-DRM-scheme equipment escapes the secret shadowrunner conversion facility in the company of some Jackpointers and makes their way to one team member's old, old bolt-hole where a tricked out 2073 Ares Predator IV with a skinlink installed in the pistol grip that was left over from 4th edition was found in a lockbox. Duration of Skinlink's LosTech status: three days.


QUOTE (Epicedion @ Jun 28 2013, 01:34 AM) *
I'm saying it's totally manual, or assisted-manual (still have to perform a specific physical action to set it off). Or you have 'trodes or what-have-you and think 'BLADES' really hard and your commlink reads that and activates the blades automatically via a wireless signal way faster than your brain can move your arms. Hence taking a simple action and making it a free one. Again, there's no direct line to your arm blades because there's no more skinlink. It's either got to all be wireless, or your glasses, earbuds, gun, monowhip, arm blades, chemseal, micro-transceiver, holster, clothes, watch, survival knife, trauma patch, lockpicks, and ponytail holder all have to be physically wired to your commlink, which just sounds lovely.


Alternatively, your forearm blades snap out because you think "BLADES" really hard and thanks to the wonders of skinlink technology (and maybe a few hours' practice to get it to work consistantly,) the weapons deploy. Or you have an implanted set of cybereyes in which you have an AR field of view and you 'click' on the 'deploy blades' button. Hence, taking a simple action and making it a free one, without exposing either your eyes or your blades to being bricked by a hostile decker.

QUOTE
Visually it's either got to broadcast to a screen (including glasses, monocles, etc), broadcast to a cybereye (which sort of works like a screen in that way), broadcast to a device that can stimulate the visual cortex ('trodes), or be wired directly to the visual cortex. Audio takes similar channels.


Or it can transmit through skinlink. Or even fiber-optic cable, as they did in the 2050s.


QUOTE
What I'm saying is that getting all of your internal devices to talk to each other even in the most basic ways, for example so that they don't all project their information in the exact same spot of your vision, has got to require some processing power somewhere. Somewhere, there's got to be a computer that tells everything what to do. This is why in SR3 you needed cybereyes with image and display links to access internal data from sources like datajacks and headware memory without having to wire yourself up to a screen.


That computer is in your cybereyes themselves, or if you prefer, in your display shades, or if you have one, your implanted commlink.



QUOTE (Epicedion @ Jun 28 2013, 02:11 AM) *
Except that skinlink was a terrible idea to introduce in the first place, because it was just a simple checkbox: Are you an idiot? Yes/No.


Skinlink is a great thing for the game, because you'd have to be an absolute idiot to run around with fifteen high-tech gadgets all squawking about radio chatter upon your person whilst you attempt to fucking break into a high-security building. For fuck's sake, tracking someone's cell phone signal is easy to do today, and with the cooperation of the telephone company can even be done even if the phone is off. If you want to be absolutely sure you don't get nailed by it, you have to take the battery out of your phone and put it in a fucking radio-blocking bag of some sort.

So if you go run around in "High-Power Choice Made: Hacking risk: OPEN" mode and try to break into an Ares facillity, what's going to happen is that the security spider, or likely one of his Agents tasked to the job, is going to notice you (and your team of dipshits) on the local wireless grid, recognize you as a gaggle of wireless devices which are not authorized to be on the premises, sound an alert, and then goon-squad of Ares corporate hackers and supporting Agents numbering about 20 are going to log in from the Ares Matrix Security Division 500 miles away and they are going to Hack you. They are going to Hack you like you have never been Hacked before, they are going to Hack you so hard you'll think FastJack took umbrage to your existance, and suddenly your gun is a paperweight, your cybereyes are serving the exact same function a pair of glass eyes served an 18th-century sailor, your commlink becomes their commlink, your chemical seal suit decides to unseal itself, your cyberleg becomes a massively heavy peg leg, your grenades either detonate or become inert, your drones become their drones, and your car decides it's not going anywhere. And this is BEFORE their on-site security team shows up, against whom you are useless and the only ones capable of putting up a resistance are the Street Shaman and the Physical Adept, so why in god's name would you play a cybered character in Shadowrun 5? Or even 4, for that matter, without fucking skinlink?


QUOTE
"Bend over" and "rip-off" and "force down throats" and so forth is very reactionary language. There's the possibility of consequences, so everything's an instant worst-case scenario.


It's appropriate language. Taken at face value and treated sensibly in-setting, either your gear will never perform to its full potential unless you're engaging somewhere or against someone over whom you have absolute and unquestioned Matrix superiority, or you'll get your ass handed to you the moment you try to combine your Wired Reflexes with your Reaction Enhancers.

QUOTE (phlapjack77 @ Jun 28 2013, 02:21 AM) *
I agree - exactly what DNI could and couldn't do was always a little unclear to me. I would have appreciated more effort in spelling that out in something like Augmentation. How much control did a character have over things like cyberware with DNI and gear with skinlink, especially if the character had no commlink to coordinate things.

Skinlink going away doesn't bother me so much - I mean, I think it shouldn't have TOTALLY gone away, but it did seem a little too magical and ubiquitous, like dikote of previous versions. Maybe cut back on it's effectiveness somehow, like if a PC uses skinlink they're not considered "online", but the skinlink creates a "field" that can be sniffed and hacked anyway (like SR4 hidden mode?). Sort of a middle ground between no-hackability (DNI) and the "hey everybody I leave a datatrail a mile wide everywhere I go!" phenomenon of always being online.


A character has enough control over their gear to use every function of it even without an image link. An image link just gives you pretty DEHR style HUDs.
Critias
QUOTE (Udoshi @ Jun 28 2013, 02:24 AM) *
I thought it WAS released, what with gencon books being sold?

Origins, but yes. It's been kind-of-semi-released, but I think the point stands that it certainly hasn't been fully launched, yes? No pdf yet, no preorders or whatever shipped out to stores, and the overwhelming majority of fans haven't been able to crack a copy open and read it for themselves yet, right?

QUOTE
Well, in that case, the thought remains: are you planning on revising the system before release?

Some of us -- especially Patrick, who's taken point on compiling them all -- have been working on some errata already, yes, because we're aware of some typos or some inconsistencies that slipped through editing and proofing. But I think it's a little silly to think that we've already got some follow-up book in the pipeline that's trying to "fix" everything Dumpshock doesn't like about a book that most Dumpshockers haven't even read yet (and even if they had), and pretend like we're getting rid of Limits and wireless bonuses and whatever else some people have complained about and deemed an issue.

Don't you? I mean c'mon, man. How do you expect me to even respond to a question like that?
ShadowDragon8685
QUOTE (Critias @ Jun 28 2013, 04:13 AM) *
Some of us -- especially Patrick, who's taken point on compiling them all -- have been working on some errata already, yes, because we're aware of some typos or some inconsistencies that slipped through editing and proofing. But I think it's a little silly to think that we've already got some follow-up book in the pipeline that's trying to "fix" everything Dumpshock doesn't like about a book that most Dumpshockers haven't even read yet (and even if they had), and pretend like we're getting rid of Limits and wireless bonuses and whatever else some people have complained about and deemed an issue.

Don't you? I mean c'mon, man. How do you expect me to even respond to a question like that?


Well...
QUOTE (Catalyst Game Labs)
"We massively goofed when we decided to try to ram bending over for hacking down player's throats, compounded that goof by doing so in a hamfisted, high-handed way that sets off massive bulldrek alarms in the minds of a majority of our vocal, experienced and attentive player base which are consistent with strong objections ruled by experienced members of our own development team, and have learned from our previous experiences. A revision of the "wireless bonuses" idea is on the way, and we're bringing back skinlinks and granularity to "how connected you are," rather than going for the 'completely isolated or fully on the Matrix' approach."
would be quite nice.
Moirdryd
I'm my case I'll be swapping some of the bonuses, making others that should just be part of the DNI interface work like they used to and if people want it with the Gear that should interface...well that's what Datajacks were always for.
Critias
QUOTE (ShadowDragon8685 @ Jun 28 2013, 05:10 AM) *
Well... would be quite nice.

Someone holler when y'all have some legit questions I can help with.
apple
QUOTE (RHat @ Jun 27 2013, 11:12 PM) *
So I take it you're just throwing out the distributed computing explanation entirely?


To be honest, it is not an explanation, see the response on your theory on Jackpoint. You cant have distributed supercomputer power with autohacking or no access control and non-distributed missing computer power at the same time.

SYL
Mach_Ten
QUOTE (Critias @ Jun 28 2013, 11:29 AM) *
Someone holler when y'all have some legit questions I can help with.

at work so AFB, but do all ofthe things that have a wireless bonus attached still work in the same way as they currently do in SR4A (i.e. complex actions still take complex actions)

So, then all we are looking for is a fluff that reasonably explains the bonii and how they were derived rather than finger in the air.

for me there is a mix, from the "Whothewhatnow?!" to the, "yeah I can grok that!" erring towards the former from the latter presently.


I mean, is there something in the book that says the matrix has surpassed ALL physical limitations of latency and physics so that Cloud calculations are as fast if not faster than built in DNI or datajacks

I'll throw in anecdotal example

say the 2050's tech (wired) was running at 10-base-T and the new matrix is 802.11 a/b/g/n etc. then it quite easily looks like wireless can "on paper" be faster than any wired link

but as long as everything is a bonus, rather than losing effectiveness out in the wilds where there is no wifi
apple
QUOTE (Epicedion @ Jun 28 2013, 12:13 AM) *
Stuff like a Trauma Patch can either be applied correctly with a bit of luck (roll) or link up to the Matrix, report the exact status of a wound, and receive instructions for exactly how to self-apply


So why canīt it be hooked up to my supercomputer cyberdeck / medkit to check on this data?

QUOTE
When the Autopicker synchs up it's accessing a relational database


Unfortunately that is not an autopicker. Except of course if the definition of an autopicker has changed - but then again this shoudl clarified before. Perhaps than a car is not a car anymore.

QUOTE
5) If the only thing you have against certain things is the 'ping' involved, the Matrix appears to have exceptionally low latency all of the time.


Yes, it seems that even manual tipping "open the finger compartment'" on the commlink, sending it via satellite to the matrix, being cloud processed there by quantum cloud computing networks, being send back to the finger compartment is really faster then simply sending a DNI order to open it.

QUOTE
6) Cyberware working together over wireless makes sense. When you get Wired Reflexes and a Reaction Enhancer, you don't get a big processor installed to make them talk to each other.


Why not? Supercomputerp ower can be installed in your brain after all, and the bonuses are worth it ... and what kind of processing is indeed ineccessary for adrenalin injectors and superconducting material to work together?

QUOTE
(how should an air tank let you know its remaining air level?


DNI - man and machine interface. It goes in two directions. Itīs the same basic principle which moves your cybereyes and gives feedback (called "vision") even without being online.

QUOTE
that these things should somehow "just link up" is a bigger handwave than anything I've ever seen suggested here.


SR1234 tend to disagree. You can check hardwire linking, skinlinking cyberware and DNI in previous editions if you want.

SYL
Sendaz
QUOTE (ShadowDragon8685 @ Jun 28 2013, 04:57 AM) *
Skinlink is a great thing for the game, because you'd have to be an absolute idiot to run around with fifteen high-tech gadgets all squawking about radio chatter upon your person whilst you attempt to fucking break into a high-security building. For fuck's sake, tracking someone's cell phone signal is easy to do today, and with the cooperation of the telephone company can even be done even if the phone is off. If you want to be absolutely sure you don't get nailed by it, you have to take the battery out of your phone and put it in a fucking radio-blocking bag of some sort.

So if you go run around in "High-Power Choice Made: Hacking risk: OPEN" mode and try to break into an Ares facillity, what's going to happen is that the security spider, or likely one of his Agents tasked to the job, is going to notice you (and your team of dipshits) on the local wireless grid, recognize you as a gaggle of wireless devices which are not authorized to be on the premises, sound an alert, and then goon-squad of Ares corporate hackers and supporting Agents numbering about 20 are going to log in from the Ares Matrix Security Division 500 miles away and they are going to Hack you. They are going to Hack you like you have never been Hacked before, they are going to Hack you so hard you'll think FastJack took umbrage to your existance, and suddenly your gun is a paperweight, your cybereyes are serving the exact same function a pair of glass eyes served an 18th-century sailor, your commlink becomes their commlink, your chemical seal suit decides to unseal itself, your cyberleg becomes a massively heavy peg leg, your grenades either detonate or become inert, your drones become their drones, and your car decides it's not going anywhere. And this is BEFORE their on-site security team shows up, against whom you are useless and the only ones capable of putting up a resistance are the Street Shaman and the Physical Adept, so why in god's name would you play a cybered character in Shadowrun 5? Or even 4, for that matter, without fucking skinlink?

And it is a very valid point. The normal Joe on the street is not going to worry too much about being accessed as generally they just are not worth the attention and his mentality is 'it won't happen to me', until of course a couple of deckkiddies mess with him for entertainment but that is another tale entirely.

The runner however is intentionally operating illegally and trying to stay under the radar so having that sort of chatter is not healthy, hence the switch off of any wifi on a run (but at the loss of gear benefits) or a very keen interest in skinlink or anyother sort of bypass that can retain the benefits with reduced risk.

I can totally see the corps and governments pushing this sort of interconnectivity through as it is the new shiny so will appeal to regular people as one more tech gimmick plus it provides one more avenue for the big boys to have another level of oversight if needed. But maybe some time should have been devoted to looking at the workarounds instead of the default statement of 'just turn it off', as this is what PLAYERS will do and they are a darn crafty lot in general. This way those willing to take the risk can still do so while the more devious can use alternate methods, even if some are clunky (though thankfully skinlink is a very good choice but there could be others as well) It will be interesting to see what sort of alt ideas Catalyst brings for this.
BunnyColvin
Thanks for the reposting of the Matrix Bonuses...seems cool to me.

I've never liked Skinlinks, they seemed the ultimate handwavium to me. SR4: Oh no, designing an actual system for hacking devices would be awful hard. Lets instead add a device that makes it all go away. Lets call them Skinlinks! I'm hoping the new edition will make more sense.

I've been looking forward to hackers having exactly the role it seems the new system is offering. Since playing 1st edition, the matrix has been ignored or relegated to a npc simply for either the complication the rules added or that players didn't want to deal with it. This forces it front and center, which in a technologically advanced world, it should be. I just hope the rules are usable and as seamless (hah!) as the combat rules are.
cryptoknight
QUOTE (Tzeentch @ Jun 27 2013, 11:55 PM) *
The recharge stuff doesn't make any sense to me, either.


Power over Wireless happens today.

http://www.powercastco.com as one example of power over a wireless platform.
hermit
QUOTE

CGL offers in-character advice. Purely by gut feeling: Aaron Pavao is the author of this piece.
cryptoknight
QUOTE (hermit @ Jun 28 2013, 08:18 AM) *
CGL offers in-character advice. Purely by gut feeling: Aaron Pavao is the author of this piece.



Good advice, except that area jammers turn your wireless bonuses off... because they jam you, leaving you just as offline as you should have been.
Mach_Ten
QUOTE (hermit @ Jun 28 2013, 02:18 PM) *
CGL offers in-character advice. Purely by gut feeling: Aaron Pavao is the author of this piece.

I have to say to that character "Well done for stating the bleeding obvious!"

for any military or other organisation that buys stuff meant to kill, something with a glaring vulnerability in it is going to get panned !

I think we have found out why Ares suffered, they were the assholes who invented this new wifi tech in guns ... then wondered what the hell ? when every teeneager with a deck hacked the living bejeebus outta the things
Sengir
QUOTE (ShadowDragon8685 @ Jun 28 2013, 05:08 AM) *
CYBER means that it's implanted and functions as though it were always connected to your PAN, because it's been WIRED INTO YOUR SKULL!
If it has any other text, then it was interesting enough to warrant me thinking about it and dedicating my thoughts to text. Now those are indented, too!

I'd replace that with a "DNI" category, which includes all cyber but also the "free/simple instead of [next higher] action required". Let's say you control your PAN with AR gloves or the manual controls on the commlink, then extending a baton by pressing an AR switch is obviously not faster than pressing a switch on the baton itself. If however you have some sort of DNI connection in your PAN, it makes sense that it's faster than the detour over a manual switch.

@Mach 10: Heh, good point biggrin.gif
Cochise
QUOTE (Sendaz @ Jun 28 2013, 01:48 PM) *
It will be interesting to see what sort of alt ideas Catalyst brings for this.


Unfortunately there actually isn't much room for such alternatives due to following:

1. Once an alternative arises that actually provides the debated (then no longer) "matrix"-bonuses without opening the "combat hacking" vector it'll become the defacto standard for prime runners again just as skinlink was in SR4. Thus the whole instrument of combat hacking becomes a one way thing for players vs. environment while the environment vs. player will fade out (gms then no longer even bothering with it).

2. It's not just runners (player side) that will look for such alternatives, since the corps and govs (represented by the gm) have similar needs for their security / official spec op personnel. At least for higher profile running situations against opposition that isn't totally inferior in the first place the combat hacking will be rendered useless in their intended function of "tactical" decision ... thus letting the whole idea sink into obscurity again.

So since this combat hacking idea quite obviously is an intended, wanted gamist concept, such alternatives must never arise or otherwise the concept itself is more or less done for which would then beg the question as to why this technological retcon was done in the first place. And like Critias already indicated: An open admission of having screwed up with this idea is rather unlikely from a professional standpoint, at last for now and the closer future
CeeJay
QUOTE (ShadowDragon8685 @ Jun 28 2013, 10:57 AM) *
So if you go run around in "High-Power Choice Made: Hacking risk: OPEN" mode and try to break into an Ares facillity, what's going to happen is that the security spider, or likely one of his Agents tasked to the job, is going to notice you (and your team of dipshits) on the local wireless grid, recognize you as a gaggle of wireless devices which are not authorized to be on the premises, sound an alert, and then goon-squad of Ares corporate hackers and supporting Agents numbering about 20 are going to log in from the Ares Matrix Security Division 500 miles away and they are going to Hack you. ...

Can you please explain to me what a "local wireless grid" is in SR5? So far, from what I've read here, I don't know how tracking someone / something through the matrix works. I'm just curious and you seem to have access to more info than me... So is there still something like a "hidden" device mode in SR5 and how easy is it to detect some matrix devices in your general vicinity and how easy is it to track someone's physical location through the matrix?

Lot's of questions I know, but I'd love to have some more details about now the matrix in SR5 works before I make up my mind.

-CJ
cndblank
QUOTE (Critias @ Jun 28 2013, 03:13 AM) *
Origins, but yes. It's been kind-of-semi-released, but I think the point stands that it certainly hasn't been fully launched, yes? No pdf yet, no preorders or whatever shipped out to stores, and the overwhelming majority of fans haven't been able to crack a copy open and read it for themselves yet, right?


Some of us -- especially Patrick, who's taken point on compiling them all -- have been working on some errata already, yes, because we're aware of some typos or some inconsistencies that slipped through editing and proofing. But I think it's a little silly to think that we've already got some follow-up book in the pipeline that's trying to "fix" everything Dumpshock doesn't like about a book that most Dumpshockers haven't even read yet (and even if they had), and pretend like we're getting rid of Limits and wireless bonuses and whatever else some people have complained about and deemed an issue.

Don't you? I mean c'mon, man. How do you expect me to even respond to a question like that?



I really don't think that the concept of Limits is an issue.

I have seen people who want some of the wireless bonuses changed because they don't make any sense.

Particularly since most of them could be done with a DNI link via induction, fiberoptic cable, or skinlink options (Bipod/Tripod anyone?) .
All of the above options have been removed or ignored in SR5 so far.

Matrix Bonuses are a great idea, but some of the bonus don't make much sense and some are forced.
So make the appropriate ones apply if Matrix connected OR DNI connected (via induction, fiberoptic cable, or skinlink connection to the DNI) in the errata.
Put skinlinks back in to SR5 via errata.

BTW, skinlinks are a real world technology that has been around since 2007.
UmaroVI
QUOTE (Critias @ Jun 28 2013, 05:29 AM) *
Someone holler when y'all have some legit questions I can help with.


Serious question: I would actually like to see a defense of some of the specific wireless bonuses that really seem like they have nothing to do with the matrix and have no sensible reason why they couldn't just work with skinlink, DNI, or a fiberoptic cable.

The fluff addresses perfectly well why things like Smartlink require a matrix connection, and I get that there are some "grey area" things, but here's some ones that stand out as just not making any sense. I would like to hear your perspective on them.

Forearm Snap-Blades: Free Action to activate instead of Simple Action.

Bipod/Tripod: Free Action to activate/stow instead of Simple/Complex Action.

Gyro-Mount: Free Action to Quick Release instead of a Complex Action.

Hidden Arm Slide: Free Action to ready weapon.

Chemical Seal: Free Action to activate instead of Complex Action.

To be clear: I am not asking for your perspective on how it makes sense in-universe that being able to wirelessly communicate with your PAN makes these bonuses happen, but rather for your perspective on why they require a Matrix connection and hence (for example) would not work even if you can wirelessly communicate with them inside a WiFi shielded building.

Epicedion
QUOTE (UmaroVI @ Jun 28 2013, 11:09 AM) *
Serious question: I would actually like to see a defense of some of the specific wireless bonuses that really seem like they have nothing to do with the matrix and have no sensible reason why they couldn't just work with skinlink, DNI, or a fiberoptic cable.

The fluff addresses perfectly well why things like Smartlink require a matrix connection, and I get that there are some "grey area" things, but here's some ones that stand out as just not making any sense. I would like to hear your perspective on them.

Forearm Snap-Blades: Free Action to activate instead of Simple Action.

Bipod/Tripod: Free Action to activate/stow instead of Simple/Complex Action.

Gyro-Mount: Free Action to Quick Release instead of a Complex Action.

Hidden Arm Slide: Free Action to ready weapon.

Chemical Seal: Free Action to activate instead of Complex Action.

To be clear: I am not asking for your perspective on how it makes sense in-universe that being able to wirelessly communicate with your PAN makes these bonuses happen, but rather for your perspective on why they require a Matrix connection and hence (for example) would not work even if you can wirelessly communicate with them inside a WiFi shielded building.


Skinlinks aren't a thing.

Presumably fiber optics would work, but that's decades out of favor at this point, and the number of linked devices would make all that cable a little unwieldy. I'd say the risk of snapping a cable would likely outweigh the risk of getting hacked.

Quick activation of devices relies on being able to transmit a signal to the device, which again relies on wireless. How many wires are you guys proposing to plug into your commlink anyway? A dozen?
Aaron
QUOTE (cryptoknight @ Jun 28 2013, 08:25 AM) *
Good advice, except that area jammers turn your wireless bonuses off... because they jam you, leaving you just as offline as you should have been.

Not if the jammer's wireless is on. You can designate devices to not be interfered with.

QUOTE (Mach_Ten @ Jun 28 2013, 08:31 AM) *
I have to say to that character "Well done for stating the bleeding obvious!"

Of course it's obvious to us. We've been talking about it for a couple weeks. I think the blog post was written at least a month ago, if not longer.
KarmaInferno
QUOTE (Epicedion @ Jun 28 2013, 11:44 AM) *
Skinlinks aren't a thing.

Presumably fiber optics would work, but that's decades out of favor at this point, and the number of linked devices would make all that cable a little unwieldy. I'd say the risk of snapping a cable would likely outweigh the risk of getting hacked.

Quick activation of devices relies on being able to transmit a signal to the device, which again relies on wireless. How many wires are you guys proposing to plug into your commlink anyway? A dozen?

Not for nothing, but my SR4 Missions character by default has a fiber optic harness under his clothing hardwiring most of his gear together. Same kind of rig you might have seen in the 2050s. If it works, it works.

He's hardly alone in his paranoia.



-k
Epicedion
QUOTE (KarmaInferno @ Jun 28 2013, 01:00 PM) *
Not for nothing, but my SR4 Missions character by default has a fiber optic harness under his clothing hardwiring most of his gear together. Same kind of rig you might have seen in the 2050s. If it works, it works.

He's hardly alone in his paranoia.



-k


I think that was a failing of SR4. In SR3 you'd have maybe one cable, since there weren't that many devices to connect. But an entire harness of cables connecting all your gear sounds like it would present its own stable of issues that SR4 casually ignored.
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