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Shinobi Killfist
QUOTE (Epicedion @ Aug 7 2013, 03:28 PM) *
Magic 6 isn't quite the bombshell it was in SR4 where you could overcast F10 stunbolts and drop trolls


True but just like SR4 advancing past magic 6 is not the best choice. It handles the force of your spells fairly well and mostly is just giving you dice. Ally spirits are not in yet, but in SR4 a foce 5 ally base cost is 40 maybe another 20 might be spent on extras. Total cost 60, going from 6 to 8 magic would cost 65 karma, one gets you 5 dice the other gets you 2. Even in most background count situations you are at worst breaking even with dice. Power focus is now karma x6 for basically the same karma cost to go from 6 to 7 magic you can get a rating 6 power focus. Even assuming they errata it to just being a dice pool modifier, 6 dice to 1 dice isn't even a choice. Unless all of your dice pool modifiers are already maxed out raising your magic is a suckers bet.
kerbarian
QUOTE (Shinobi Killfist @ Aug 7 2013, 01:23 PM) *
splitting the pool wasn't dated it was a balanced and elegant method to create a mage capable of everything. Now personally I would have made it 2 separate magic attributes, but oh well.

That gives me an idea -- the special attribute points of SR5 offer a fairly elegant solution to this. If you're a mystic adept, you have to spend special attribute points to get power points during chargen, and if you want you can trade some of your starting Magic attribute for more power points.

That means if you want to be a mystic adept who's strong at being both a magician and an adept, you'll have to spend a higher priority on race, which I think is actually a good way to balance it. It's probably too large of a change to be considered for errata, though.
Shinobi Killfist
QUOTE (kerbarian @ Aug 7 2013, 05:37 PM) *
That gives me an idea -- the special attribute points of SR5 offer a fairly elegant solution to this. If you're a mystic adept, you have to spend special attribute points to get power points during chargen, and if you want you can trade some of your starting Magic attribute for more power points.

That means if you want to be a mystic adept who's strong at being both a magician and an adept, you'll have to spend a higher priority on race, which I think is actually a good way to balance it. It's probably too large of a change to be considered for errata, though.


That is what I am currently looking at for my house rule, though I'd have 2 totally separate magic attributes which you divide your starting magic between which would initiate and advance separate. But you could use your special attributes to boost the 2 attributes, neither could raise above 6 at char gen without exceptional attribute(and it would apply to either adept or mage magic attribute not both) Allows higher starting total magic from 4e, and wold advance a bit quicker than 4e. And it would also allow full adpes with a inkling of mage as opposed to full mages with X amount of adept as the only method.
Dyspeptic
QUOTE (Bull @ Aug 7 2013, 04:20 PM) *
None of these are "my rules" These were all worked up by the SR5 writers and design team. There's been a lot of discussion behind the scenes, and while I'm cautioning that none of this is final for SR5 in general, and that the final errata may change things up... Right now, these are all what is planned to go into the Errata and FAQ.

Bull


Clarification accepted. The "Missions Hotpatch" nature of the document caused me to interpret it as essentially a decree by fiat. Mea culpa.

That said, I stand by the rest of my points. The introduction of an effectively setting-wide BC with no way of mitigating it short of buying Home Ground (Chicago CZ) (Astral Acclimitization) is... problematic in my opinion.

I also would request a clarification on the Mystic Adept power point issue. I'm ok with additional power point not being granted automatically with Magic increase, but they need to be purchaseable with additional Karma as they are during chargen.
Bull
QUOTE (Dyspeptic @ Aug 7 2013, 07:11 PM) *
Clarification accepted. The "Missions Hotpatch" nature of the document caused me to interpret it as essentially a decree by fiat. Mea culpa.


Yeah, I cherry picked our Errata stuff and pushed it through ahead of schedule specifically for Missions so that we could release it in time for Gen Con, since we'll have a few hundred new characters been made before the show and at the show. This was the stuff that I felt we HAD to have at least a beta test version of the errata. smile.gif

QUOTE
I also would request a clarification on the Mystic Adept power point issue. I'm ok with additional power point not being granted automatically with Magic increase, but they need to be purchaseable with additional Karma as they are during chargen.


They are, sort of. by doing an initiation and taking the Power Point instead of your metamagic power. It just emans that each additional point is progressivly more expensive.

Bull

Lynchmob
QUOTE (Mäx @ Aug 7 2013, 08:09 AM) *
Also i seriously hope mystic adept errata doesn't stay final, only way to get power points being taking them instead of metamagic is just stupid as heck.



Am I misreading how initiation works for regular adepts? I was under the impression that they have to choose between metamagic or a powerpoint at initiation. If that's the case why should Mystic Adepts be allowed easier access to power points than dedicated adepts? There might be a blurb I missed somewhere offering traditional adepts access to powerpoints without initiation.
RHat
QUOTE (Shinobi Killfist @ Aug 7 2013, 04:09 PM) *
That is what I am currently looking at for my house rule, though I'd have 2 totally separate magic attributes which you divide your starting magic between which would initiate and advance separate. But you could use your special attributes to boost the 2 attributes, neither could raise above 6 at char gen without exceptional attribute(and it would apply to either adept or mage magic attribute not both) Allows higher starting total magic from 4e, and wold advance a bit quicker than 4e. And it would also allow full adpes with a inkling of mage as opposed to full mages with X amount of adept as the only method.


The problem is that 3/2 is not as valuable as 5 Magic - so, splitting from a total really doesn't work. One option, though, would be to set Mystic Adepts at something like 2/2 (or just 4 points to split as they like) for C, 3/3 (or 6 points to split as they like) for B, and 4/4 or 5/5 (or either 8 or 10 points to split as they like) for A. 6/6 would be attainable if you took a Metatype selction offering enough Special Attribute Points.
RHat
QUOTE (Lynchmob @ Aug 7 2013, 05:58 PM) *
Am I misreading how initiation works for regular adepts? I was under the impression that they have to choose between metamagic or a powerpoint at initiation. If that's the case why should Mystic Adepts be allowed easier access to power points than dedicated adepts? There might be a blurb I missed somewhere offering traditional adepts access to powerpoints without initiation.


PhysAds get them automatically upon raising Magic, as well, while MystAds do not under the hot patch.
Bull
QUOTE (RHat @ Aug 7 2013, 09:01 PM) *
PhysAds get them automatically upon raising Magic, as well, while MystAds do not under the hot patch.


Correct.
Sengir
QUOTE
Used Cyberware may be purchased during character creation.

Thank god
Lynchmob
Ok so I'm an adept my magic is 6 and I initiate and take the extra power point. I have a total of 7 power points. I then spend my karma to increase my magic to 7, I get an extra power point so I have 8 total? Is this the intended mechanic and it was just a little unclear or am I a blind idiot who can't rtfm? The only rules I could see about power points were at the character creation section and then in the magic chapter right before they list the adept powers. In the character creation section it states that adepts get power points equal to their magic attribute and that mystic adepts must pay 2 (now 5) karma per point. pgs 68 and 71. On page 69 when breaking down the different types of awakened it states that adepts get power points equal to their magic. On page 308 in the magic section it again says you get power points equal to your magic but specifies at character creation. Under initiation bonuses it lists the increased maximum to magic and lists power point as an option instead of metamagic I just didn't see anything explicitly stating that increasing magic after character gen gets you an additional power point. Again I might have totally missed it somewhere.
Bull
Pure Adepts: Get Magic Rating = Power Points inlcuding magic points bought after chargen, plus can take extra Power Points instead of initiation. So an Initate Grade 1 who took the Power Point with 7 Magic ends up with 8 Power Points.

Mystic Adepts: Do not automatically get any Power Points. At Chargen they may purchase them for 5 karma each. After Chargen, the only way they get them is to initiate and take the power point.
Lynchmob
Awesome thanks for unfragging me. You rock.
Maelwys
QUOTE (Bull @ Aug 7 2013, 12:45 PM) *
Powers can be turned on and off. Always have been. Should have been clarified in the new book though. Otherwise Adepts can NEVER go through wards.


Uh. Except for astral perception, none of the adept's powers make them astrally active. Not astrally active, means no problem going through wards. Unless I've missed something in the various editions.

You might as well be saying that a magician could never go through a ward because he could never turn off his magic.
Shinobi Killfist
QUOTE (RHat @ Aug 7 2013, 08:00 PM) *
The problem is that 3/2 is not as valuable as 5 Magic - so, splitting from a total really doesn't work. One option, though, would be to set Mystic Adepts at something like 2/2 (or just 4 points to split as they like) for C, 3/3 (or 6 points to split as they like) for B, and 4/4 or 5/5 (or either 8 or 10 points to split as they like) for A. 6/6 would be attainable if you took a Metatype selction offering enough Special Attribute Points.



Sure but magic A human c could be 5/6 which is a hell of a lot more valuable than magic 6 on its own. Troll A magic B would be 5/4 or 6/3 which is pretty damn solid. And while 3/3 is not as valuable as 6, 5/1 was pretty close. To me this seems more balanced at the get go and more balanced as you advance. I haven't had time to play test it yet, so it could totally suck, but I'm liking it on paper.
RHat
QUOTE (Shinobi Killfist @ Aug 7 2013, 08:43 PM) *
Sure but magic A human c could be 5/6 which is a hell of a lot more valuable than magic 6 on its own. Troll A magic B would be 5/4 or 6/3 which is pretty damn solid. And while 3/3 is not as valuable as 6, 5/1 was pretty close. To me this seems more balanced at the get go and more balanced as you advance. I haven't had time to play test it yet, so it could totally suck, but I'm liking it on paper.


Well, if you're spending all your resources from 2 different priorities, of course the combination is going to be potent. Capping it somehow does make sense, I suppose, but a straight split from 6 is just not the way to do it.
Tzeentch
I think the mystic adept nerf is a bit too kneejerk. I hope that the con lets you get some feedback on the changes (e.g. if people even bother with them and aspected magicians).
HugeC
QUOTE (Bull @ Aug 7 2013, 09:26 PM) *
Mystic Adepts: Do not automatically get any Power Points. At Chargen they may purchase them for 5 karma each. After Chargen, the only way they get them is to initiate and take the power point.

This forces all mystads to blow all 25 freebie karma plus 5 from negative qualities on power points at chargen.

The primary topic of conversation at mystic adept group initiations will be, "So what's your unique and special flaw?"

I'd urge you guys to consider a rule that works both during and after chargen.
Elfenlied
QUOTE (Tzeentch @ Aug 8 2013, 08:16 AM) *
I think the mystic adept nerf is a bit too kneejerk. I hope that the con lets you get some feedback on the changes (e.g. if people even bother with them and aspected magicians).


Yeah, I bet the majority of those complaining about MysAds have neither played them nor DMed for one in their group. If they did, they would realize how thinspread and diluted most of them are. 6/6 Magic in theory, sure, but you're not gonna make the most of it with the lack of skills, attributes and cash.
Vlagrate
QUOTE (HugeC @ Aug 8 2013, 08:45 AM) *
This forces all mystads to blow all 25 freebie karma plus 5 from negative qualities on power points at chargen.

The primary topic of conversation at mystic adept group initiations will be, "So what's your unique and special flaw?"

I'd urge you guys to consider a rule that works both during and after chargen.


Houserule:
Mystic adepts may buy Power Points for 5 karma each, both during and after character generation, with a maximum equal to their Magic Rating + # of PP Metamagics

Ex: Mystic Adept with magic 6 doesn't want to blow any karma for PP. Their PP maximum is 6 (their magic).
They may spend up to 30 karma, in increments of 5, during downtime for PP. They may also initiate and select a metamagic.
If they select the Power Point metamagic, their maximum Power Point reserve increases by 1 (to 7) and they get 1 PP [1 of 7]
If they select any other metamagic, their Power Point maximum remains at 6 [0 of 6]

This should curb any problems of not maxing out your PP during character generation. Thoughts?


As for the concerns that mystic adepts cannot gain PP through anything other than initiation: that's a fair cost.
The ability to purchase PP and use Qi foci is balanced out by the differences between mages and mysads, so why should a mysad gain free power points from a bump in magic when the mage pays the same cost to bump magic but has no option of gaining a PP?
Having to pay an additional cost is the price mysads pay for being able to gain PP in the first place.
As such, it's cheaper for everyone to invest in foci rather than initiate for power points or bump magic (mages and adepts included)
Power focus = 6*force
Qi focus = 2*force
Initiating for PP costs 13 karma, while a Qi focus granting the equivalent of 1PP costs 8 karma.
Bull
QUOTE (Maelwys @ Aug 7 2013, 09:40 PM) *
Uh. Except for astral perception, none of the adept's powers make them astrally active. Not astrally active, means no problem going through wards. Unless I've missed something in the various editions.

You might as well be saying that a magician could never go through a ward because he could never turn off his magic.


No, you're right. I got my ward rules mixed up. I have 5 Editions, 3 editions worth of playtested rules, and a dozen GMs worth of house rules kicking around in my brainpan somewhere. When I'm discussing rules off the cuff (Espeically when I'm away from my books like I was for part of yesterday), I switch things up on occasion. My apologies.

But, while using an adept power, Adepts are still magically active (Just not astrally active or dual natured). And they can opt to "turn off" their abilities by not using them. This has long been the case, otherwise Adepts never could have ridden a suborbital without popping like a grape in older editions. So long as an adept doesn't use his powers in a Background Count, he takes no BGC penalties (and takes no damage in a Void or Flux).

Bull
tete
While I appreciate the errata the official Chicago bit makes me wonder. We aren't trying to go more GM vs PC are we? I know its Chicago but it would seem to let my players be less awesome. To paraphrase Steve Darington a GMs job is to make an awesome game by allowing their players to be awesome. There are a few places in 5e that seem to try to make my players characters less awesome. Not an accusation more looking for a clarification (IE, yes we still want your characters to be awesome, Chicago its just a bit more challenging, or something like that).
ElFenrir
I was always under the impression(as a player and a GM of home games) that Chicago doesn't like you at all. If you're a mage, it doesn't like you because it's teeming with BGC. If you're mundane, it doesn't like you because bug spirits are extremely hard to hurt without said magic. Chicago is just a really really crappy place to be in the SR world. nyahnyah.gif

I mean, as a GM myself, I'd give very very clear warning before making a Chicago game. As in 'do you guys want to play in a Chicago game, knowing what it entails.' It's one of those places that, if given the choice between 'Worst Part of the Barrens' or 'Chicago', you're in the Barrens before you can even think about the question. grinbig.gif
Elfenlied
Unless you play an Insect Shaman. Which, unfortunately, is out of the question for Missions.
Sendaz
QUOTE (Elfenlied @ Aug 8 2013, 02:14 PM) *
Unless you play an Insect Shaman. Which, unfortunately, is out of the question for Missions.

Yeah that bugs me too. nyahnyah.gif
Elfenlied
QUOTE (Sendaz @ Aug 8 2013, 06:17 PM) *
Yeah that bugs me too. nyahnyah.gif


Guess the writers feared it would make the team members too antsy.
ElFenrir
QUOTE (Elfenlied @ Aug 8 2013, 01:32 PM) *
Guess the writers feared it would make the team members too antsy.



That just flies in the face of everything, though.
Bull
QUOTE (tete @ Aug 8 2013, 12:57 PM) *
While I appreciate the errata the official Chicago bit makes me wonder. We aren't trying to go more GM vs PC are we? I know its Chicago but it would seem to let my players be less awesome. To paraphrase Steve Darington a GMs job is to make an awesome game by allowing their players to be awesome. There are a few places in 5e that seem to try to make my players characters less awesome. Not an accusation more looking for a clarification (IE, yes we still want your characters to be awesome, Chicago its just a bit more challenging, or something like that).


keep in mind this is specifically for the official Missions Living Campaign line. There's a specific plotline and such running through it.

And honestly? hurdles and challenges are there to let you be more awesome, not to make you less awesome. After all, which story is cooler and more inspirational? The one about the guy who was really talented and trained and who easily won the race? Or the guy who broke his leg during training and had to heal and overcome rehab and painkiller addiction, only to make an underdog comeback at the end, overcome the odds, and win the gold medal?

I LOVE to challenge players. It's not about an adversarial "us vs them" relationship. It's about making a location and a story interesting, and about presenting challenges to overcome.

And if you don't feel like dealing with those challenges, no one is saying "Screw you, play X." Play a face, or a sammy, or something that does't rely on Magic. Shadowrun has a LOT of options out there. Each has their own unique challenges, IMO. they just show up in different places.

Bull
Bull
Also, bug puns? Really? Shame on you. smile.gif
Redjack
People are gonna be who they're gonna bee...
Jhaiisiin
Yeah, don't encROACH on our fun.
X-Kalibur
You guys are really gonna stir up a hornet's nest here.
Bull
Have fun while you can. I know what's coming, and man is it NOT pretty.
Draco18s
QUOTE (Bull @ Aug 8 2013, 04:13 PM) *
Have fun while you can. I know what's coming, and man is it NOT pretty.


Debugging rarely is.
X-Kalibur
QUOTE (Draco18s @ Aug 8 2013, 01:16 PM) *
Debugging rarely is.


And we have a winner.
Bull
I would like to point out that I find it hilarious that everyone assumes BUGS will be the big problem in Chicago. smile.gif

The biggest, scariest thing in Shadowrun, to my mind, is the one thing taht is well and truly modern and mundane. And as Shadowrunner, you're usually working for them.

hehe. But, last night we playtested an adventure idea that will be the wrap up for Plot Arc #3, which will be the 18th Season 5 Missions (Yes, I'm planning that far ahead), and will likely be released as SRM 5C-06 (No title Yet), and toward the end of it, even knowing what was going on, I tweeted this post:

"@BullOrkDecker OhGodOhGodOhGodOhGod. It's so bad. #Shadowrun #ShadowRon"

And let me tell you, ShadowRon is not a man who panics lightly.

Bull
Draco18s
QUOTE (Bull @ Aug 8 2013, 04:22 PM) *
"@BullOrkDecker OhGodOhGodOhGodOhGod. It's so bad. #Shadowrun #ShadowRon"

And let me tell you, ShadowRon is not a man who panics lightly.


Reminds me of this tweet:

"Most entertaining part of the Iron Author contest: watching. @sparf slowly have an aneurysm as the winning entry was read."

Or from the same person earlier that morning:
"*perks ears* I have mail! *checks* Oh...oh NO. #IronAuthor"

My morning went roughly the same. "Oh, three more entries! And we have a winner, a second place, and third..."
Ricochet
QUOTE (Elfenlied @ Aug 8 2013, 08:55 AM) *
Yeah, I bet the majority of those complaining about MysAds have neither played them nor DMed for one in their group. If they did, they would realize how thinspread and diluted most of them are. 6/6 Magic in theory, sure, but you're not gonna make the most of it with the lack of skills, attributes and cash.


My missions character is a MysAd built A Skills, B Attributes, C Magic. I blew off the cash. I built with 5 karma PPs, and I didn't min-max, and I can still say that MysAd's were too strong.
Ricochet
QUOTE (Bull @ Aug 8 2013, 01:38 PM) *
keep in mind this is specifically for the official Missions Living Campaign line. There's a specific plotline and such running through it.

And honestly? hurdles and challenges are there to let you be more awesome, not to make you less awesome. After all, which story is cooler and more inspirational? The one about the guy who was really talented and trained and who easily won the race? Or the guy who broke his leg during training and had to heal and overcome rehab and painkiller addiction, only to make an underdog comeback at the end, overcome the odds, and win the gold medal?

I LOVE to challenge players. It's not about an adversarial "us vs them" relationship. It's about making a location and a story interesting, and about presenting challenges to overcome.

And if you don't feel like dealing with those challenges, no one is saying "Screw you, play X." Play a face, or a sammy, or something that does't rely on Magic. Shadowrun has a LOT of options out there. Each has their own unique challenges, IMO. they just show up in different places.

Bull


Exactly! More dice and higher stats <> Awesome.
Great stories and overcoming adversity = Awesome.

Even though I found it to be my least favorite adventure in Sprawl Wilds for various reasons, winning the big final fight at the end under 4E style background count 4 (with 1 magician, 1 adept, and 1 mystic adept in the party) was awesome as the finally of the sprawl wilds set.
Shinobi Killfist
QUOTE (Elfenlied @ Aug 8 2013, 09:55 AM) *
Yeah, I bet the majority of those complaining about MysAds have neither played them nor DMed for one in their group. If they did, they would realize how thinspread and diluted most of them are. 6/6 Magic in theory, sure, but you're not gonna make the most of it with the lack of skills, attributes and cash.


Unless of course you just make mage+ The Mystake adept in out group mirrored the mage 1 for 1 in char gen the onyl difference was he didn't drop 24 karma on focused concentration and 1 spell, he curb stomps the mage. Also the spread out thing is a bit overblown because most specialists are overly redundant, you only need 1 close combat or 1 ranged weapon skill having more helps but in a fairly negligible fashion. And then you could always focus adept powers on your drain stats so you don;t even have to spread out your attributes. You have to build to fail to not be too good with the mystake adept. The SR4 version actually could build really good characters but you had to optimize and specialize in one side or the other more than other archetypes, so it could have used a little boost, this was a ridiculous over correction making the mystake broken beyond belief. The fix brings it more inline of what it should be but is still better than just being a mage if you go the mage+ route.
RHat
QUOTE (Shinobi Killfist @ Aug 8 2013, 06:23 PM) *
And then you could always focus adept powers on your drain stats so you don;t even have to spread out your attributes.


No you cannot. Adept powers can only boost Physical attributes.
Tzeentch
If the players venture into Cermak, remember that the radiation levels should be about half of what they were in 2055. smile.gif I would not suggest eating the dirt though, your body will absorb Cesium-137 like it was potassium!
hermit
Or local mushrooms, for that matter. Tough luck, ghouls.
tete
QUOTE (Bull @ Aug 8 2013, 06:38 PM) *
keep in mind this is specifically for the official Missions Living Campaign line. There's a specific plotline and such running through it.

And honestly? hurdles and challenges are there to let you be more awesome, not to make you less awesome. After all, which story is cooler and more inspirational? The one about the guy who was really talented and trained and who easily won the race? Or the guy who broke his leg during training and had to heal and overcome rehab and painkiller addiction, only to make an underdog comeback at the end, overcome the odds, and win the gold medal?

I LOVE to challenge players. It's not about an adversarial "us vs them" relationship. It's about making a location and a story interesting, and about presenting challenges to overcome.

And if you don't feel like dealing with those challenges, no one is saying "Screw you, play X." Play a face, or a sammy, or something that does't rely on Magic. Shadowrun has a LOT of options out there. Each has their own unique challenges, IMO. they just show up in different places.

Bull


Good to hear, are the modifications generally known upfront to the players before they make/pick their characters? I mean if I show up at a convention X or game store Y is there anything to let me know heh your mage is down 3 dice cus it sucks to be a mage in Chicago BEFORE the game starts? I not much of a convention player unless im trying out a totally new game. I find RAW tends to reign at conventions and very few games I play by RAW, even nWOD which has my favorite mechanic I house rule damage modifiers.
toturi
QUOTE (Bull @ Aug 9 2013, 02:38 AM) *
keep in mind this is specifically for the official Missions Living Campaign line. There's a specific plotline and such running through it.

And honestly? hurdles and challenges are there to let you be more awesome, not to make you less awesome. After all, which story is cooler and more inspirational? The one about the guy who was really talented and trained and who easily won the race? Or the guy who broke his leg during training and had to heal and overcome rehab and painkiller addiction, only to make an underdog comeback at the end, overcome the odds, and win the gold medal?

I LOVE to challenge players. It's not about an adversarial "us vs them" relationship. It's about making a location and a story interesting, and about presenting challenges to overcome.

And if you don't feel like dealing with those challenges, no one is saying "Screw you, play X." Play a face, or a sammy, or something that does't rely on Magic. Shadowrun has a LOT of options out there. Each has their own unique challenges, IMO. they just show up in different places.

Bull

Which story is cooler? The one about the guy who was really talented and trained and who easily won the race and go on to win many more races and become the person to win the most races in the history of that sport? Or the guy who broke his leg during training and had to heal and overcome rehab and painkiller addiction, only to make an underdog comeback at the end, overcome the odds, and win the gold medal?
To me, the first story is far more interesting and enjoyable, I find the second simply tedious.
It's about making a location and a story interesting, and about presenting challenges that seem difficult but are easily overcome.
Shinobi Killfist
QUOTE (RHat @ Aug 8 2013, 11:58 PM) *
No you cannot. Adept powers can only boost Physical attributes.



I wasn't talking about improved physical attribute. My point was a shaman face does not have to spread out his attributes at all, his mage primary stats are his face primary stats. Pick up a couple face skills with face boosting powers and you are looking pretty good. A hermetic decker would be more resource intensive but actually might be doable as a mystic adept, but on a more specific focus a mystic adept physician could be bring back from the dead good while still being an overall awesome mage. In many cases these are skills the mage or shaman would take already,so its not really spreading out to failure as people try to bring up when downplaying the potential of the mystic adept.
RHat
QUOTE (toturi @ Aug 12 2013, 09:58 PM) *
Which story is cooler? The one about the guy who was really talented and trained and who easily won the race and go on to win many more races and become the person to win the most races in the history of that sport? Or the guy who broke his leg during training and had to heal and overcome rehab and painkiller addiction, only to make an underdog comeback at the end, overcome the odds, and win the gold medal?
To me, the first story is far more interesting and enjoyable, I find the second simply tedious.
It's about making a location and a story interesting, and about presenting challenges that seem difficult but are easily overcome.


So... You enjoy stories without conflict?
FuelDrop
QUOTE (Shinobi Killfist @ Aug 13 2013, 01:03 PM) *
I wasn't talking about improved physical attribute. My point was a shaman face does not have to spread out his attributes at all, his mage primary stats are his face primary stats. Pick up a couple face skills with face boosting powers and you are looking pretty good. A hermetic decker would be more resource intensive but actually might be doable as a mystic adept, but on a more specific focus a mystic adept physician could be bring back from the dead good while still being an overall awesome mage. In many cases these are skills the mage or shaman would take already,so its not really spreading out to failure as people try to bring up when downplaying the potential of the mystic adept.


The thing is that there are exactly 2 things that a Mystic Adept can never do: be a technomancer, and astrally project. Once we get the expanded drug list I expect that the second one will go away.

EDIT: oops typo. my bad.
RHat
QUOTE (Shinobi Killfist @ Aug 12 2013, 10:03 PM) *
I wasn't talking about improved physical attribute. My point was a shaman face does not have to spread out his attributes at all, his mage primary stats are his face primary stats. Pick up a couple face skills with face boosting powers and you are looking pretty good. A hermetic decker would be more resource intensive but actually might be doable as a mystic adept, but on a more specific focus a mystic adept physician could be bring back from the dead good while still being an overall awesome mage. In many cases these are skills the mage or shaman would take already,so its not really spreading out to failure as people try to bring up when downplaying the potential of the mystic adept.


Fair, but you can make an extremely good Face with a Magician Shaman to begin with - the MystAd is simply more suited to that particular concept. Or are they not allowed to be more suited for some concepts?
Shinobi Killfist
QUOTE (FuelDrop @ Aug 13 2013, 12:06 AM) *
The thing is that there are exactly 2 things that a Mystic Adept can never do: be a technomancer, and astrally project. Once we get the expanded drug list I expect that the second one will go away.

EDIT: oops typo. my bad.


Well given the addiction rules I am not sure a drug solution is viable, but you will get no argument from me on the limits of a mysic adept. Though there are practical limits based on karma and resources. The more diverse the attributes required for your build the harder it will be to pull off while still being a top notch mage.
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